All NBA Teams so far

TomRicardo

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Assuming Embiid, Butler, and Haliburton are going to miss 65 (Kristoff will miss as well)

First Team
Jokic
Giannis
Tatum
SGA
Luka

Second Team
Anthony Davis
Brunson
Kawhi (can't believe he played enough games)
Durant
Mitchell

Third Team
Harden
Gobert
Curry
Chet
Derozan
 

deanx0

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I wonder if Curry gets 2nd team and Mitchell 3rd. I know that Mitchell is deserving, but Curry's rep might carry him over Donovan.
 

snowmanny

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How sure are we that Haliburton won’t qualify? He’s at 42* I think.


Also I agree with Curry on second team and LeBron on third.

*edit - and some of those are 20-26 minutes which makes me think there is an effort to get him there.
 

the moops

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All NBA is position less this year right?

SGA, Luka, Tatum, Giannis, Jokic
Haliburton, Curry, Kawhi, KD, Lebron
Mitchell, Booker, Ant, PG, AD
 

benhogan

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Assuming Embiid, Butler, and Haliburton are going to miss 65 (Kristoff will miss as well)

First Team
Jokic
Giannis
Tatum
SGA
Luka

Second Team
Anthony Davis
Brunson
Kawhi (can't believe he played enough games)
Durant
Mitchell

Third Team
Harden
Gobert
Curry
Chet
Derozan
Gobert over KAT & AntMan?

reminder: its positionless this year
 

the moops

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I can't believe that Demar Derozan was listed on third team. I think i would have to get down to 5th 6th team before he has a chance
 

TomRicardo

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All NBA is position less this year right?

SGA, Luka, Tatum, Giannis, Jokic
Haliburton, Curry, Kawhi, KD, Lebron
Mitchell, Booker, Ant, PG, AD
It is going to be hard for Booker to hit the 65 games (he can only miss 7 more games). I assume he wasn't going to when I left him off. There is almost no way Haliburton is going to make it. He only has 4 games left to miss.
 

the moops

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It is going to be hard for Booker to hit the 65 games (he can only miss 7 more games). I assume he wasn't going to when I left him off. There is almost no way Haliburton is going to make it. He only has 4 games left to miss.
PHO only has 27 games left. Playing 20/27 seems very doable for Booker. You may be right about Haliburton though
 

TomRicardo

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PHO only has 27 games left. Playing 20/27 seems very doable for Booker. You may be right about Haliburton though
20/27 is very doable, but I would argue not for Booker.

Ant is not playing borderline all defense.

I am not sure he is even a top ten defense guard this year.
 

TomRicardo

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Yeah DeRozan on and LeBron off isn’t going to happen.
Oh no doubt. Curry is going to make it but LeBron really shouldn't. Chet is playing really really well and DeRozan is having a great year on an island but I totally see Ant and LeBron making it over them. I was debating Maxey over DeRozan but DeRozan is playing so well in place without hope.
 

Kliq

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The Wolves have the best defense in the league by a pretty big margin, and it's hard not to think that isn't due to Gobert and his ability to protect the rim and scare players out of the paint. He also allows players like Edwards and McDaniels to play very aggressively on defense, because they have the security blanket protecting the rim if they get beat. Ant is a flashier player and arguably more important to the team's success in a playoff scenario, but it is a regular season award and if you want to recognize the Timberwolves season and progress as a team, Gobert is a good pick.
 

Euclis20

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Ant is close to a lock for this team, and Derozan has 0 chance at this point. Hard to get a great picture with some guys currently up in the air (primarily Booker and Haliburton), but here's what I see:

1st: Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Tatum, SGA
2nd: Mitchell, Lebron, Haliburton, Edwards, Kawhi
3rd: Durant, Booker, Curry, Brunson, Davis

Maybe a couple of guys get hurt and break up the logjam, but this is an incredible list.

20/27 is very doable, but I would argue not for Booker.

Ant is not playing borderline all defense.

I am not sure he is even a top ten defense guard this year.
I'm not understanding the Ant criticism while propping up Derozan at the same time. Demar is having his least efficient year offensively in 5 years (by quite a bit), while playing his typical putrid defense and posting his trademark terrible on/off numbers (he's had a negative net rating 13 times in 15 years). His only positive is that he's been available (leading the league in minutes), and in the voting where only the top 15 make it, I doubt he makes top 25.
 

Kliq

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I'd also definitely be looking at including Fox and/or Sabonis. I know the stats are all inflated this year, but Sabonis is averaging 20/13/8 with a 64% efg.
 

TomRicardo

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Ant is close to a lock for this team, and Derozan has 0 chance at this point. Hard to get a great picture with some guys currently up in the air (primarily Booker and Haliburton), but here's what I see:

1st: Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Tatum, SGA
2nd: Mitchell, Lebron, Haliburton, Edwards, Kawhi
3rd: Durant, Booker, Curry, Brunson, Davis

Maybe a couple of guys get hurt and break up the logjam, but this is an incredible list.

I'm not understanding the Ant criticism while propping up Derozan at the same time. Demar is having his least efficient year offensively in 5 years (by quite a bit), while playing his typical putrid defense and posting his trademark terrible on/off numbers (he's had a negative net rating 13 times in 15 years). His only positive is that he's been available (leading the league in minutes), and in the voting where only the top 15 make it, I doubt he makes top 25.
Because Ant has Rudy Gobert absolutely locking down the paint and KAT rotating in when Ant stabs and misses. His numbers are great but he has the biggest safety net in the NBA. It is like Elon Musk or Donald Trump saying they are a self made man. DeRozan is playing Alex Caruso, Coby White, and lucky fans that are given jerseys.

Gobert is so so locked in and should be DPOY.
 

Euclis20

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Because Ant has Rudy Gobert absolutely locking down the paint and KAT rotating in when Ant stabs and misses. His numbers are great but he has the biggest safety net in the NBA. It is like Elon Musk or Donald Trump saying they are a self made man. DeRozan is playing Alex Caruso, Coby White, and lucky fans that are given jerseys.

Gobert is so so locked in and should be DPOY.
Gobert might get DPOY, but in the days of positionless all-nba voting, Gobert doesn't have a shot at making all-NBA. I'll agree that Ant is overrated defensively (he has moments when he locks in and is great because he's got the physical tools, but he's closer to 2022 Jaylen Brown in that regard than anyone up for an all-defense team). He's not remotely in the same discussion as Derozan, who will go down as one of the most overrated players of this generation because he's good at making difficult 2 point shots. Other than a 6 week stretch in 2022, Derozan has been a complete afterthought since being traded for Kawhi in 2018. Not even Bulls fans think he has a chance at all-NBA, it's legitimately jarring to see him even in this discussion.

*edit - Derozan finished 10th in all-star voting among EC guards, and didn't get a single media vote for starter. No one made a peep about him being snubbed for the team, he wasn't even on the short list of guys to replace Randle/Embiid (both KP and White made that list). Now they're gonna vote him as one of the top 15 players in the league, after basically saying he wasn't even a top 20 guy in the East? No fucking way.
 
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DannyDarwinism

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DeRozan is playing Alex Caruso, Coby White, and lucky fans that are given jerseys.
And yet, as is almost always the case, his team is better with him off of the court.

A great player can have a season with a negative net +/- due to lineups and variance, but it's fairly rare. Derozan, however, has been negative in 13 out of his 15 seasons. Add up everyone else in mentioned in this thread and they've done it a total of 19 times. Exclude rookie and sophomore seasons and it bumps down to 8. Tatum, Jokic, Kawhi, and Lebron have never done it. Steph's only season in the red is this one. Giannis, Harden, Gobert, KAT, Luka (rookie), SGA (rookie) have only done it once.
 

benhogan

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TOP 15 All-NBA Players
Joker
Giannis
SGA
Luka
Tatum
Kawhi
Haliburton
KD
Bron
Curry
Edwards
Mitchell
Brunson
Davis
Booker

Scratching my head on Gobert & DeRozan, wouldn't even put them in my TOP 30.

Rudy will win DPOY, but starting next year it will be called the WEMBY Award for the next decade
 

Devizier

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Ant is not having great season. I would have Maxey over him. Gobert and KAT are driving the Timberwolves success.
That didn’t seem right to me, although I could imagine that some traditional box score/efficiency numbers might make that case. Doubly so given that those older metrics heavily favor bigs.

Anyways, DARKO passes the eye test for me:

78410
 

TomRicardo

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When I was saying Ant isn't having a great season, I don't mean he sucks by the way. He has juts slacked on progressing defensively and has gotten a bit complacent having Rudy behind him and ball hawking. Last year and this summer he was definitely on his road to getting to be a top ten player in the NBA. I would argue he is still a top 20 player but I think the Timberwolves would suffer way more if Gobert got injured than Ant at this point.

I don't think people are giving credit to how incredibly good Gobert has been this season also how quickly with a safety net Ant became Trae Young.
 
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ElUno20

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PG probably wont make the game limit but he should make 3rd team over derozan
 

the moops

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He's been dealing with a nagging groin injury the last month + it's PG so the chances for him to pop a leg or a knee randomly always exist.
Well sure, but he would need to miss nearly half of the remaining 29 games. I mean for sure possible, but I wouldn't label it as likely
 

Euclis20

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He's been dealing with a nagging groin injury the last month + it's PG so the chances for him to pop a leg or a knee randomly always exist.
Even if he hits the 65 game threshold, he's gonna have a hard time. He's a good defender but is 4 years removed from his last all-defense appearance and probably won't make it this year. His counting stats are down almost across the board, without a similar uptick in efficiency (other than fewer turnovers). There are just too many good players this year, and he's liable to get squeezed unless a couple of guys (Booker and Haliburton for sure) miss the games minimum.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Oh no doubt. Curry is going to make it but LeBron really shouldn't. Chet is playing really really well and DeRozan is having a great year on an island but I totally see Ant and LeBron making it over them. I was debating Maxey over DeRozan but DeRozan is playing so well in place without hope.
I have no idea why you would think LeBron shouldn’t make one of the 3 teams. I’d have him on the 2nd myself as he’s been pretty remarkable this year in holding that team together. He’s having another great year.
 

benhogan

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Timberwolves would suffer way more if Gobert got injured than Ant at this point.

I don't think people are giving credit to how incredibly good Gobert has been this season also how quickly with a safety net Ant became Trae Young.
Rudy has an excellent On-Off, but Ant has been better.

Ant Edwards: 1800 mins this season is a +11 // 2800 mins last season he was a +4
Rudy Gobert: 1800 mins this season is a +9.8 // 2150 mins last season he was a -.3

KAT could hold down the 5 if Rudy went down, with Naz Reid playing the 4/5 with little downgrade.
NAW would have a tough time replacing Edward's production

NBA Centers (4/5s) better than Gobert: Joker, Embiid, AD, Sabonis, KAT, Bam, Porzingis, Markkanen
Young 5s that have or will pass Rudy in the next year: Wemby, Holmgren, JJJ, Allen, Mobley, Sengun
 

TomRicardo

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I have no idea why you would think LeBron shouldn’t make one of the 3 teams. I’d have him on the 2nd myself as he’s been pretty remarkable this year in holding that team together. He’s having another great year.
He is really really good for a 39 YO player. However he is not a top ten player anymore. If LeBron isn't LeBron or 39, he is the second best player on a play in team who plays a ton of one way basketball.
 

TomRicardo

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Rudy has an excellent On-Off, but Ant has been better.

Ant Edwards: 1800 mins this season is a +11 // 2800 mins last season he was a +4
Rudy Gobert: 1800 mins this season is a +9.8 // 2150 mins last season he was a -.3

KAT could hold down the 5 if Rudy went down, with Naz Reid playing the 4/5 with little downgrade.
NAW would have a tough time replacing Edward's production

NBA Centers (4/5s) better than Gobert: Joker, Embiid, AD, Sabonis, KAT, Bam, Porzingis, Markkanen
Young 5s that have or will pass Rudy in the next year: Wemby, Holmgren, JJJ, Allen, Mobley, Sengun
Rudy's on/off is going always be worse than Ant. Kat is on the court almost all the time Rudy isn't. The Timberwolves don't have a scorer to match Ant off the bench.

Bam is not close to Rudy this season, Bam is not having a good season at all. I would have Rudy over Markkanen and Sabonis because I think the defense in this environment is so impressive (it was why I was so hot on Chet as well) this season as well and KAT is playing really well but his team hates him.

Joker, Embiid, AD, Porzingis, Gobert, Chet, Sabonis, Jared Allen, KAT, Sengun, Markkanen would be my top ten at Big Man
Giannis, Tatum, Leonard, Durant, DeRozan, Ant, Butler, LeBron, PG, and Zion would be at wing
SGA, Luka, Haliburton, Brunson, Booker, Mitchell, Harden, Curry, Maxey, and Lilliard at PG

Bam is not even in the next ten for me this season. I am high on contract year DeRozan and Chet.

Without the game limits (Still taking games played in consideration)

Joker, SGA, Giannis, Luka, Tatum/Embiid (depending how many games Embiid plays coming back)
Embiid/ Tatum, AD, Haliburton, Kawhi, Durant
Brunson, Booker, Porzingis, Mitchell, Gobert

But LeBron would be beat out Gobert there in a voting situation.
 
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the moops

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He is really really good for a 39 YO player. However he is not a top ten player anymore. If LeBron isn't LeBron or 39, he is the second best player on a play in team who plays a ton of one way basketball.
Lakers are middle of the road in both offense and defense. They aren't really a one way basektball team.

Also, there are tons of one-way players on your list above - Luka, Brunson, Mitchell, Derozan
 

slamminsammya

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He is really really good for a 39 YO player. However he is not a top ten player anymore. If LeBron isn't LeBron or 39, he is the second best player on a play in team who plays a ton of one way basketball.
this LeBron slander is crazy to me. Name ten guys playing better than LeBron this year. and are you saying he doesn't play defense anymore? I don't think the eye test or any of the advanced metrics support that.
 

RorschachsMask

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LeBron has been top 10-15 this season, at worst. He’s an absolute lock for all nba, IMO.
 
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Kliq

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People saying LeBron is a Top 10 player are I think, living in the past. It's just simply not true. From just a logical perspective, the Lakers are a mediocre team this season, and LeBron hasn't even been the best player on his own team, that is clearly Davis. So the Lakers have two top 10 players (who have been healthy this season), but are still mediocre? I don't buy it. If you think that, you should probably be putting Fox and Sabonis in the Top 10 too, because the Kings have a better record than the Lakers and have similar supporting casts beyond their top two players.

LeBron is currently 50th in WS/48. VORP and BPM like him more as a Top 15 guy, but a lot of that comes down to volume in being the primary ball-handler. I know everyone is afraid to write-off LeBron, and he is still very good for a player his age, but he isn't LEBRON anymore and hasn't been for a few years. If it wasn't for the wacky inflated stats, nobody would be considering him seriously as a Top 10 player.
 

BaseballJones

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Are LeBron's stats "inflated" though? He's down in scoring from last year (28.9 to 24.8), but he's taking far fewer shots (22.2 down to 17.9) and is shooting more efficiently (eFG% from .549 to .579). He's also averaging more assists (6.8 to 7.8) and more steals (0.9 to 1.3).

I don't watch their games. Maybe he's getting those stats in garbage time, which would inflate them, but I see a guy who is still a dominant player and one of the best in the league as an all around player.
 

RorschachsMask

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LeBron is 11th in EPM, 13th in DPM, 15th in LEBRON, 10th in BPM. They have a +2.6 net with him in, which isn’t great, but it’s -2.3 when he sits. It’s +3.6 when he’s on the court without AD, as opposed to -1.2 with AD on and LeBron off. Then the raw stats are still elite, 25/7/8 on a 61% TS, despite the fact that he’s just a dreadful iso player now.

I don’t really see the argument against him being all nba.
 

Auger34

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this LeBron slander is crazy to me. Name ten guys playing better than LeBron this year. and are you saying he doesn't play defense anymore? I don't think the eye test or any of the advanced metrics support that.
The LeBron doesn't play defense at all is something that Bill Simmons hammers all of the goddamn time. In reality, he definitely does take some plays off to conserve energy and because of his age, but it's clear to anyone with a set of eyes that he can absolutely lock in down there when he wants to
 

Auger34

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TOP 15 All-NBA Players
Joker
Giannis
SGA
Luka
Tatum
Kawhi
Haliburton
KD
Bron
Curry
Edwards
Mitchell
Brunson
Davis
Booker

Scratching my head on Gobert & DeRozan, wouldn't even put them in my TOP 30.

Rudy will win DPOY, but starting next year it will be called the WEMBY Award for the next decade
DeRozan shouldn't be near anything All NBA related. I mean, he's not even close.

I think this is the exact list that I would have
 

BaseballJones

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What LeBron is doing at age 39 in the NBA is kind of like what Tom Brady was doing in his 40s in the NFL.
 

TomRicardo

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this LeBron slander is crazy to me. Name ten guys playing better than LeBron this year. and are you saying he doesn't play defense anymore? I don't think the eye test or any of the advanced metrics support that.
I literally did. LeBron not being a top ten player doesn't mean LeBron sucks. He is still top ten wing in the league. Also almost no one plays defense anymore. Scoring is way up which dilutes his scoring average.
 

TomRicardo

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The LeBron doesn't play defense at all is something that Bill Simmons hammers all of the goddamn time. In reality, he definitely does take some plays off to conserve energy and because of his age, but it's clear to anyone with a set of eyes that he can absolutely lock in down there when he wants to
Absolutely yes. LeBron absolutely can still lock down but it takes a ton out of him. He is nearly 40. It is insane he is still a top 25 player in a league that is so much more athletic then when he came in. That said LeBron can't just show up and will his team to the playoffs like he used to. Outside of the bubble which worked to LeBron's age he probably hasn't been a top 10 player since he left Cleveland.

LeBron simply isn't a top 15 player in the NBA anymore. He is still the biggest draw, the biggest ratings, and is a top 25 player which is beyond insane.
 

Tony C

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All the silliness about LeBron not making it has been replied to. Anyone who thinks he isn't an all-NBA player isn't watching the games nor looking at the stats.

That said, the original was still a really good list from TR.

Changes I'd make to that list would be Kawhi on 1st team in place of Luka. Luka and LBJ on 2nd team with either Brunson or Mitchell demoted to 3rd team. Paul George added to 3rd team with Gobert and DeRozan not making it at all.
 

TomRicardo

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I know all-NBA has become position-less this year, but what about all-Defensive team? Will that have positions?

Who will be the 10 guys selected there?
DPOY is going to Gobert

Gobert
Davis
SGA
Allen
Chet/Wemby

Wemby/Chet
Giannis
Kessler
Mitchell
White