Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

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Oil Can Dan

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It was his sister, not girlfriend. And maybe I'm nuts but it seems perfectly feasible that he was able to sneak a few short texts out. There was likely only one person next to him - all it takes is for that person to not be staring at him for a moment.
 

Shelterdog

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johnmd20 said:
Really? You don't think it's suspicious that Lloyd felt it necessary to text his sister at three thirty in the morning? Lloyd and Hernandez were friends, that much has been proven and written about. So it wouldn't be out of the ordinary that Lloyd was hanging out with AH. What is out of the ordinary is Lloyd feeling it was necessary to let his sister know at 3:30am because he knew something was up once he got into the car.
 
It's certainly suspicious, I just don't find it conclusive--particularly since we've only heard the facts as presented by the prosecution. If all the information about the car being tense and Hernandez being angry bears out then it's pretty obvious that Lloyd was trying to give his sister a clue of some kind but right now we're just short on information. 
 

dcmissle

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Which is fitting because Jimmy Burke is spinning in his grave while Whitey is muttering "morons" with a grin on his face during sidebars.
 

johnmd20

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Shelterdog said:
It's certainly suspicious, I just don't find it conclusive--particularly since we've only heard the facts as presented by the prosecution. If all the information about the car being tense and Hernandez being angry bears out then it's pretty obvious that Lloyd was trying to give his sister a clue of some kind but right now we're just short on information. 
 
Let's see. He was texting his sister at 3am, making sure she knew who he left with. Approximately 10 minutes later, he was murdered. I feel like Occam's Razor should apply here. He was in the car and he realized he was in deep trouble and did the cell phone equivalent of writing his murderer's name in blood.
 

teddykgb

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johnmd20 said:
Let's see. He was texting his sister at 3am, making sure she knew who he left with. Approximately 10 minutes later, he was murdered. I feel like Occam's Razor should apply here. He was in the car and he realized he was in deep trouble and did the cell phone equivalent of writing his murderer's name in blood.
 
That's not really occam's razor.  The simplest solution is that he was just texting her without motive.  If you were writing your murder's name, you might have included initials, or his number.  If he has time to type "just so you know" then he has time to type all kinds of things, and he didn't.  People keep saying "it was 3am", but every individual leads a different life.  3am texts to/from his sister might be completely normal for them.  Being picked up by Hernandez at 3am might be completely normal. Very, very few of us are close to being able to relate to the lives these individuals lead.  Because of that, we really have to throw out our definition of "normal" if we're going to try to contextualize their actions.
 
For the record, I'm not some Hernandez fanboy nor a Patriots fan.  He's more than likely guilty as all hell.  But I do think Shelterdog and others are right when pointing to the fact that the details thus far have been one sided and some are even a bit incongruous.  Or at least have the potential to be.  What seems open and shut now might prove to be more delicate in short order.  The only thing that is less circumstantial and may be quite damning is all the video.  Video in his house isn't particularly important, but the video at the crime scene may be devastating to the case.
 

soxfan121

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Trlicek's Whip said:
This thread makes the Boston Marathon bombing subRedditors look like Simon Wiesenthal.
 
At least the defense won't have to dig hard for reasons to keep most of us off the jury.
 
Which 12 shut-ins could be empaneled at this point?
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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Can they move venues out of the state?  Would the Berkshires be more like Giants country?  Would it have to be removed and become a federal case (as is the civil complaint from Florida)?
 

BroodsSexton

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You may be able to transfer a venue to a different part of the state, but you don't remove criminal cases from the state to the federal system.  Removal is a creature of federal statute applicable only to civil cases.  The stated justification is that when the parties are from different states, the foreign party might not get a fair shake in the state courts, wheras the federal district court should be more impartial since judges are nominated and confirmed nationally.  In the criminal context, the locals get to take their crack at you.
 

Bergs

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soxfan121 said:
At least the defense won't have to dig hard for reasons to keep most of us off the jury.
 
Which 12 shut-ins could be empaneled at this point?
 
You'd be surprised how many non-sports followers have heard nothing about this case. I've met more than a few in the last couple days.
 

MalzoneExpress

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I thought I read somewhere that Lloyd had an old school cell phone. It is much easier to text secretly on one of those than on a smartphone. Also, if Lloyd could text, why didn't he dial 911 when things started to "get real".
 

DJnVa

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GBrushTWood said:
Just because it came from Lloyd's cellphone doesn't mean he was the one who typed the message. Obviously, it makes little sense for the murderer(s) to type and send the message, but it is also difficult to envision Lloyd being allowed to pull out his phone in the middle of all this. 
 
Unless the initial plan was to scare Lloyd, not kill him and then, maybe depending on what Lloyd said to questions from AH, it escalated.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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MentalDisabldLst said:
Can they move venues out of the state?  Would the Berkshires be more like Giants country?  Would it have to be removed and become a federal case (as is the civil complaint from Florida)?
Broods already answered this well, but I'd that it's not going federal by way of federal indictment. Even if they could - and they can tie in all sorts of stuff that normally should be in state court due to the extraordinarily broad way that "interstate commerce" has been construed - I don't see it except for possible firearms charges under 18 U.S.C. § 922. And they won't here, because U.S. Attorney's Offices have what is known as a "petit" policy, which means that even though federal and state prosecutions for the same conduct don't violate the double jeopardy clause, they won't take up a case pending in a state court unless the state agrees to drop the case (except in rare case like the Oklahoma City Bombing). And that's not happening with this one. No way DA Sutter would relinquish something like this to the feds if that were even a possibility.
 

Harry Hooper

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Bergs said:
You'd be surprised how many non-sports followers have heard nothing about this case. I've met more than a few in the last couple days.
 
For the USFL vs. NFL trial, more than half the jurors had never even heard of the NFL, which probably caused Rozelle to wonder if his life's work had been in vain.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Its amazing that so many here think that anything short of a video tape of Hernandez pulling the trigger creates reasonable doubt.
 

RedOctober3829

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MalzoneExpress said:
I thought I read somewhere that Lloyd had an old school cell phone. It is much easier to text secretly on one of those than on a smartphone. Also, if Lloyd could text, why didn't he dial 911 when things started to "get real".
Based on the evidence presented in open court, Lloyd was shot 3 times as he exited the vehicle.  Presumably, there was no time to call 911 once things "escalated".
 
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MentalDisabldLst

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Harry Hooper said:
For the USFL vs. NFL trial, more than half the jurors had never even heard of the NFL, which probably caused Rozelle to wonder if his life's work had been in vain.
 
That is the strangest and most remarkable thing I've read in weeks, even granting that it was 1986, not 2006.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Bergs said:
You'd be surprised how many non-sports followers have heard nothing about this case. I've met more than a few in the last couple days.
 
Hell, at Fenway on Saturday I heard a girl ask her boyfriend "who is this Aaron Hernandez I guy I keep hearing about and what did he do?"
 

YTF

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Boston Brawler said:
Not a lawyer, so will the prosecution have to prove that "NFL" was regularly used by Lloyd to refer to Hernandez? Could the defense reasonably argue that Lloyd, as a semi pro football player, had ties to more than one NFL player? Obviously there is a boatload of other evidence, but do any of the lawyers on here see the texts being a contested issue?
 
 
I think you pretty much answered your own question here. For all intents and purposes, there is a survailence taped time line of who was with who, when and where. If the NFL text was the key piece of evidence for the prosecusion it might be easier to conjur up reasonable doubt, but to me this is just part of what really seems like a very neatly wrapped present that has been the officials have been gifted with.  
 

LeftyTG

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All the back and forth speculation on Lloyd's 3am texts is fun and all, but ultimately (should this case go to trial) Lloyd's sister will testify as to how she understood that text message.  As the intended recipient of the message, she'll be able to testify as to the effect it had on her.  I'd wager that the state has interviewed her and knows how she interpreted the message.  Given its inclusion in the states rundown of the facts of the case, I'm guessing Lloyd's sister's interpretation of the text message is along the lines of the majority of posters in this thread.
 

bakahump

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LeftyTG said:
All the back and forth speculation on Lloyd's 3am texts is fun and all, but ultimately (should this case go to trial) Lloyd's sister will testify as to how she understood that text message.  As the intended recipient of the message, she'll be able to testify as to the effect it had on her.  I'd wager that the state has interviewed her and knows how she interpreted the message.  Given its inclusion in the states rundown of the facts of the case, I'm guessing Lloyd's sister's interpretation of the text message is along the lines of the majority of posters in this thread.
Couldnt it be argued as after the fact?  She as a witness could be tainted by the fact that AH was arrested.
 
As a defense attorney I would ask.....If she was concerned about a 3am Text about "NFL"...then why didnt she call the cops and say "I think something bad is going to happen to my brother and AH is going to do it".
Instead they will argue "You thought they where friends ...and as friends...you had no worries that that AH would do something to hurt your brother....so at that time you had no concerns.  Why do you feel he did it now? Is it simply because the cops arrested him? Why do you believe he didnt text "Help" instead of who he was with?"
 
Not saying it would work to get him off....but the whole "sister knew that a 3am Text from AH was Bad news" is overstated.
 
That and there is way more damning evidence then the 3am texts.
 

mt8thsw9th

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Maybe he was able to text because he had them all at gunpoint and he was in control and then Aaron was able to get the gun from him and shot him five times in the struggle. Self defense. Maybe Lloyd killed those guys in Boston last year, too? I mean, that probably explains why he was driving Hernandez' car: he strong-armed Aaron. Have they jailed a real-life Batman?
 

BoredViewer

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The text messages didn't happen in a vacuum - they happened in the context of Lloyd being killed minutes after the last one... and apparently being in the car with Hernandez.
 
<--- Not a lawyer, but I can't imagine the defense will get much bang for their buck going down that road... might even result in figurative (or actual) eye rolls from the jury - which is probably not a desired thing.  I'd think they would have a far better chance of success at muddying up the details of what happened in the final moments and hope for a positive outcome that way.
 

Kull

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Bill won't discuss the case for obvious reasons, but he did comment that Hernandez was looking him right in the eye throughout the indictment (if you check youtube, you'll see that Bill was alternately looking from the judge to Hernandez and back again). What struck him was that Hernandez had a smirk on his face every time they locked eyes. His impression was that Hernandez was convinced he'd be out on bail right away, and the whole courtroom episode was just a formality.
 
One can spin any number of possible scenarios about how the murder really went down, but the greatest likelihood is that it's just as cold and obvious as the prosecution would have us believe. Hernandez-level hubris is something none of us can comprehend.
 

SuperManny

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Carmine Hose said:
Just think...if they had caught him texting, he may have lived because they would be aware their identities were known and the "coast wasn't clear."
 
This goes back to the biggest question for me though, what was the original plan? Hernandez had sent texts to him beforehand in order to coordinate meeting up so the police would have known that he was with Hernandez anyways even without his texts to his sister. They then drive from Boston all the way back to Hernandez's house just to kill him a mile away. It just seems as though there was another plan originally, either that or they didn't even try to hide the murder.
 

The Pedrophile

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AH is gong to prison...but he's not going on a first-degree murder charge.  His initial lawyer is correct:  all of the evidence is circumstantial.  Unless...a witness rolls...
 
Maybe AH is really smart.  He needed to get Lloyd out of the picture before he revealed AH's responsibility for the 2010 murders.  He did it in a way that really doesn't allow a jury to convict him of anything...unless a witness rolls...
 

Monbo Jumbo

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...  all of the evidence is circumstantial. 



So what?

A large amount of circumstantial evidence is stronger proof than a small amount of direct evidence.
 

smastroyin

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Also, while anything can happen, and yes, DA's can get too aggressive with charges, I have to think they are pretty convinced to go for murder 1.
 

Ralphwiggum

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The Pedrophile said:
AH is gong to prison...but he's not going on a first-degree murder charge.  His initial lawyer is correct:  all of the evidence is circumstantial.  Unless...a witness rolls...
 
Maybe AH is really smart.  He needed to get Lloyd out of the picture before he revealed AH's responsibility for the 2010 murders.  He did it in a way that really doesn't allow a jury to convict him of anything...unless a witness rolls...
What in the world are you talking about? You can call AH a lot of things throughout this episode but smart is not one of those things. And what do you mean a jury cannot convict him? Do you think you need an eyewitness to convict someone of murder?
 

LeftyTG

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bakahump said:
Couldnt it be argued as after the fact?  She as a witness could be tainted by the fact that AH was arrested.
 
As a defense attorney I would ask.....If she was concerned about a 3am Text about "NFL"...then why didnt she call the cops and say "I think something bad is going to happen to my brother and AH is going to do it".
Instead they will argue "You thought they where friends ...and as friends...you had no worries that that AH would do something to hurt your brother....so at that time you had no concerns.  Why do you feel he did it now? Is it simply because the cops arrested him? Why do you believe he didnt text "Help" instead of who he was with?"
 
Not saying it would work to get him off....but the whole "sister knew that a 3am Text from AH was Bad news" is overstated.
 
That and there is way more damning evidence then the 3am texts.
No disrespect intended, but this just isn't how it works.  Lloyd's sister would be called as a witness to testify as to what she has first hand knowledge of, which includes the 3am text message sent to her.  She will not be asked, by either the prosecution or defense, her opinion on whether or not AH is guilty.  She isn't a juror and she didn't witness the shooting.  It is simply beyond her scope of knowledge.
 
She (conceivably, as we're firmly in hypothetical land here) would be able to testify to her understanding of when Lloyd texted "NFL" he meant Hernandez.  She could also testify as to whether or not this kind of text was unusual, both in the time it was sent and the content of the message.  She could testify what her reaction was to reading the text, i.e. what he was trying to communicate. 
 
The stuff about what the text means is, to me, overblown.  The biggest impact of Lloyd's text message is simply showing that he was with Hernandez a very short time before he was killed.  It, in conjunction with the other pieces of time stamped evidence, creates a very small window of time where Hernandez could have believably slipped away and not be present at the murder.
 
The Pedrophile said:
AH is gong to prison...but he's not going on a first-degree murder charge.  His initial lawyer is correct:  all of the evidence is circumstantial.  Unless...a witness rolls...
 
Maybe AH is really smart.  He needed to get Lloyd out of the picture before he revealed AH's responsibility for the 2010 murders.  He did it in a way that really doesn't allow a jury to convict him of anything...unless a witness rolls...
I don't want to pile on, but this is just dumb.  The vast majority of convictions, even murder convictions, rely on circumstantial evidence.  I realize we've all watched enough law and order type shows where we've heard "circumstantial evidence" used in a sneering, dismissive tone, but there are plenty of convictions every day that rely on circumstantial evidence.  If you have enough of it, a case consisting entirely of circumstantial is plenty strong and sufficient.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Koufax said:
It's been almost 40 years since I took criminal law and that was in another state, so pardon me if I am misguided.  I was taught that being part of a conspiracy to commit a crime that was actually committed is every bit as serious as having committed the crime directly.  Is that true?  If so, how does it matter who pulled the trigger?  It appears that AH was not only part of the conspiracy, he was the mastermind (to the extent such a grandiose term can be used to describe what happened).  So if the victim was murdered and someone else pulled the trigger, isn't AH in doo-doo just as deeply as if he had pulled the trigger himself?
 
Hadn't seen this answered, but I think it's correct.  There are two concepts of conspiracy.  First, "conspiracy" is a stand-alone crime.  It is generally charged when the conspiracy is foiled before it reaches its objective, but can also be charged as a separate offense.  So, for example, if three people get together in a bugged warehouse and plan a murder, and take a substantial step toward committing the murder (buying a gun), and the cops bust them at that point and use the recording, they can be charged with conspiracy to commit murder right then even though nobody got killed.
 
But I think the second type of "conspiracy" is the type you're talking about.  It is a legal concept (which may or may not be separately charged) by which one person can be held criminally responsible for the acts of another person, as though he did those acts himself.  So, if you're part of a conspiracy, and one of your co-conspirator does something illegal, you can be charged as though you did it.  There are limits, though -- the scope of what you can be charged with depends on the scope of the conspiracy.  You're only responsible for stuff your co-conspirator does in furtherance of the conspiracy that you agreed to or that is a foreseeable and nature consequence of the conspiracy.  
 
So, if three guys conspire to kill a guy, it doesn't matter who pulls the trigger.  Similarly, if three guys agree to commit a violent crime, like rape or arson or something like that, but not specifically to kill someone, but one of the conspirators kills someone during the commission of the felony, all three are likely going to be liable for some sort of homicide crime as a natural consequence of the conspiracy.  Similarly, if three guys agree to beat a guy, and the beating is so bad that he dies, they likely all will be guilty of some sort of homicide crime because when you beat someone, it's foreseeable you could kill him.  But imagine that they decide they are going to beat him, and one goes nuts and shoots him before the beating -- are the other two liable?  Tough call.  Probably not.  So, back to the AH case -- the prosecutor would have to show a conspiracy to commit murder to get all 3 on murder if the shooter cannot be determined.  If the prosecutor cannot show a conspiracy to commit murder, the exact nature of the conspiracy would become very important.  If it's a conspiracy to shoot him but not kill him, all three would likely be guilt of murder.  If it's a conspiracy to scare him, then the two non-shooters would potentially not be guilty of murder.
 
Note that a conspiracy can be extremely quick.  It's not the kind of thing where you have to be sitting around a table discussing it and then you go do it later, like in the Sopranos.  It can happen in two seconds, immediately before the crime.  "We gonna do this?"  "Yeah, let's do it."  Boom.  That's probably enough for the non-shooter to be charged with conspiracy.  There's also felony murder, which is another possibility here for the non-shooters (if there were any non-shooters), depending on whether the encounter turned into a kidnapping or something else.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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I don't want to pile on, but this is just dumb.  The vast majority of convictions, even murder convictions, rely on circumstantial evidence.  I realize we've all watched enough law and order type shows where we've heard "circumstantial evidence" used in a sneering, dismissive tone, but there are plenty of convictions every day that rely on circumstantial evidence.  If you have enough of it, a case consisting entirely of circumstantial is plenty strong and sufficient.
 
 
 
That is correct, however, keep in mind the defendant gets a highly favorable jury instruction if the case is solely circumstantial.  This is a Mass jury instruction manual from 2009, I assume it is still in effect, however I don't know for sure. Emphasis on the bolded part as those are the important pieces.
 
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE JURY INSTRUCTIONS - MASS
 
There are two types of evidence which you may use to determine the facts of a case: direct evidence and circumstantial evidence. You have
direct evidence where a witness testifies directly about the fact that is to be proved, based on what he claims to have seen or heard or felt with his own
senses, and the only question is whether you believe the witness. You have circumstantial evidence where the witness cannot testify directly
about the fact that is to be proved, but you are presented with evidence of other facts and you are then asked to draw reasonable inferences from
them about the fact which is to be proved.
 
Example. Your daughter might tell you one morning that she sees the mailman at your mailbox. 
That is direct evidence that the mailman has been to your house.  On the other hand, she might tell you only that she sees mail in
the mailbox. That is circumstantial evidence that the mailman has been there; no one has seen him, but you can reasonably
infer that he has been there since there is mail in the box.
 
The law allows either type of proof in a criminal trial. There are two things to keep in mind about circumstantial evidence:
The first one is that you may draw inferences and conclusions only from facts that have been proved to you.
The second rule is that any inferences or conclusions which you draw must be reasonable and natural, based on your common sense and
experience of life. In a chain of circumstantial evidence, it is not required that every one of your inferences and conclusions be inevitable, but it is
required that each of them be reasonable, that they all be consistent with one another, and that together they establish the defendant’s guilt beyond
a reasonable doubt. 
 
If the Commonwealth’s case is based solely on circumstantial evidence, you may find the defendant guilty only if those circumstances are
conclusive enough to leave you with a moral certainty, a clear and settled belief, that the defendant is guilty and that there is no other reasonable
explanation of the facts as proven. The evidence must not only be consistent with the defendant’s guilt, it must be inconsistent with his
innocence.
 
-No other reasonable explanation
-Inconsistent with innocence
 
It is rare to have those instructions floating around a jurors head.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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LeftyTG said:
No disrespect intended, but this just isn't how it works.  Lloyd's sister would be called as a witness to testify as to what she has first hand knowledge of, which includes the 3am text message sent to her.  She will not be asked, by either the prosecution or defense, her opinion on whether or not AH is guilty.  She isn't a juror and she didn't witness the shooting.  It is simply beyond her scope of knowledge.
 
She (conceivably, as we're firmly in hypothetical land here) would be able to testify to her understanding of when Lloyd texted "NFL" he meant Hernandez.  She could also testify as to whether or not this kind of text was unusual, both in the time it was sent and the content of the message.  She could testify what her reaction was to reading the text, i.e. what he was trying to communicate. 
 
The stuff about what the text means is, to me, overblown.  The biggest impact of Lloyd's text message is simply showing that he was with Hernandez a very short time before he was killed.  It, in conjunction with the other pieces of time stamped evidence, creates a very small window of time where Hernandez could have believably slipped away and not be present at the murder.
 
I don't want to pile on, but this is just dumb.  The vast majority of convictions, even murder convictions, rely on circumstantial evidence.  I realize we've all watched enough law and order type shows where we've heard "circumstantial evidence" used in a sneering, dismissive tone, but there are plenty of convictions every day that rely on circumstantial evidence.  If you have enough of it, a case consisting entirely of circumstantial is plenty strong and sufficient.
 
The "NFL" text is interesting.  I'm not sure it's admissible.  It's definitely hearsay.   The question is whether there's a hearsay exception.  The one likely to apply is the exception for a murder victim who is "under the belief of imminent death" about the "cause or circumstances" of the death.  If offered merely to show that the victim was in the car with Hernandez, it's a tough sell.  I think the prosecutor is going to have to come up with some evidence that at the time of the text the victim thought he was going to die and the text was specifically an attempt to identify the victim.  Sometimes, a hearsay statement is enough to show the applicability of an exception, "I'm in the car with Tom Brady and he's going to shoot me."  This one is too vague, I think, and if MA law is like that in other places, it's the prosecution's burden to show applicability of a hearsay exception.  So, they'll need someone in the car to testify, I think, to get the "NFL" text in -- unless they can find a non-hearsay purpose to offer it.
 
As for circumstantial evidence, the jury instruction is interesting.  I sort of think the mailbox example takes away the later caution about "no other reasonable explanation."  Lots of ways the mail could have gotten in the box, but that's probably what the jury remembers more than the specific words.  But it's right that most crimes that don't involve confessions are proven with circumstantial evidence.  It's not a lesser type of evidence.  In fact, it's often extremely compelling.  A bloody fingerprint, for example.  Direct evidence merely means if you believe it, you believe the fact that is stated.  Circumstantial evidence merely means if you believe it, you believe it's most likely that a fact occurred.  Which is better evidence, a co-defendant who took a plea and a reduced sentence in order to cooperate saying, "I saw him do it," or a roomful of firefighters, nuns, and police testifying that two seconds after hearing gunshots, the defendant ran into their meeting covered in blood waiving the gun that ballistics shows was the murder weapon?  The former is direct.  The latter is circumstantial.
 
Edit:  "Victim" in paragraph 1 should be "defendant".
 

Tim Salmon

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PaulinMyrBch said:
That is correct, however, keep in mind the defendant gets a highly favorable jury instruction if the case is solely circumstantial.  This is a Mass jury instruction manual from 2009, I assume it is still in effect, however I don't know for sure. Emphasis on the bolded part as those are the important pieces.
 
 
-No other reasonable explanation
-Inconsistent with innocence
 
It is rare to have those instructions floating around a jurors head.
 
That instruction is still in effect in the Superior Court.  I would point out, though, that the bolded language is really just another way of reinforcing the concepts of presumption of innocence (i.e., the defendant is entitled to exclusion of every reasonable hypothesis in favor of innocence) and guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  It is taken directly from 19th-century cases.  
 
That said, your point about the potential psychological effect of beating jurors over the head with these instructions is well-taken.  After the Casey Anthony trial (jurors pointing to weak evidence of motive) and, to a lesser extent, the James Corasanti trial in Buffalo (foreman explaining that he credited defendant's testimony because he "could have taken the 5th"), I've given up trying to guess what jurors will do with instructions.
 

simplyeric

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Carmine Hose said:
Just think...if they had caught him texting, he may have lived because they would be aware their identities were known and the "coast wasn't clear."
That's what I was saying. Makes me think he didn't believe his time was up, because if he thought he was about to be murdered, seems like he would have said 'hey I just told some people that I'm with you right now.... Just so you know...'
 

twibnotes

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Just think...if they had caught him texting, he may have lived because they would be aware their identities were known and the "coast wasn't clear."



That's what I was saying. Makes me think he didn't believe his time was up, because if he thought he was about to be murdered, seems like he would have said 'hey I just told some people that I'm with you right now.... Just so you know...'

Who says it's binary. Maybe he thinks it's 30-70 that he's going to get killed. If he says something to Hernandez and crew that indicates he suspects they may kill him, his chances of being killed may, in his mind, rise. Better to keep cool and show his potential killers that he is scared straight and intends to keep quiet about whatever it is Hernandez is fired up about.
 

LeftyTG

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
The "NFL" text is interesting.  I'm not sure it's admissible.  It's definitely hearsay.   The question is whether there's a hearsay exception.  The one likely to apply is the exception for a murder victim who is "under the belief of imminent death" about the "cause or circumstances" of the death.  If offered merely to show that the victim was in the car with Hernandez, it's a tough sell.  I think the prosecutor is going to have to come up with some evidence that at the time of the text the victim thought he was going to die and the text was specifically an attempt to identify the victim.  Sometimes, a hearsay statement is enough to show the applicability of an exception, "I'm in the car with Tom Brady and he's going to shoot me."  This one is too vague, I think, and if MA law is like that in other places, it's the prosecution's burden to show applicability of a hearsay exception.  So, they'll need someone in the car to testify, I think, to get the "NFL" text in -- unless they can find a non-hearsay purpose to offer it.
I don't practice in Massachusetts and while I've done hundreds of trials, I swim in the shallow and murky waters of child abuse/neglect cases.  That is to say, to borrow a football analogy from my boss, we may not run many plays, but we're really good at the ones we do run.  The fine points of evidence in Massachusetts murder cases is definitely not in my playbook. 
 
With that caveat, as I wrote my initial post I had in mind that the text was admissible for the effect the statement had on the listener, Lloyd's sister, provided that she was able to testify that reading that text message had a particular effect on her.  Come to think about it, that might be a tough sell.  In digging around a bit, I also wonder if it could be admitted as a verbal assertion used inferentially?  I don't even know if Massachusetts even allows that as not hearsay.
 

Traut

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Does MA have a statute on this? Though its not what I practice, I'm fairly sure in CT that you can't create a hearsay problem by killing the speaker.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm a bit out of my depth here, but ...

1) Residual exception is very narrowly construed in criminal cases, because hearsay in criminal cases is grounded in the confrontation clause, not just the rules of evidence. Given that there is an express exception for statements made by a murder victim who fears imminent death (Ma R Evid 804(b)(2)), I wouldn't think the residual exception is a back door to expand that exception when it is not otherwise met.

2) Effect on the lisener is tough. That is like when a party testifies someone said "the house is on fire" to explain why a person called the fire department. There the statement is offered not for the truth or falsity whether the house is on fire, but because people call the fire department when told that whether or not it's true. I can't see any effect on Lloyd's sister that would be probative of whether Hernandez commited the crime.

3) I don't know about inferences from verbal assertions. Way too sophisticated for me. Maybe. I am skeptical, but just guessing. My discussion is getting really technical though, and maybe really uninteresting to most. So, sorry to get too pinheaded. I was just trying to say that, while the text seems to be a significant point of discussion in this thread, admissibility will be hard fought.
 
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