Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

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soxfan121

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bosox79 said:
Wait for the details. Would it shock anyone if theres 2 more? That Florida case could easily be one more.
 
I think that guy just lost an eye and isn't dead. 
 
Then again, we're firmly in the Tyson Zone here and I might be mistaken on today's Hernandez news. 
 

Cesar Crespo

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soxfan121 said:
 
I think that guy just lost an eye and isn't dead. 
 
Then again, we're firmly in the Tyson Zone here and I might be mistaken on today's Hernandez news. 
My bad for not making it clear, I meant he could have easily killed him. Ive never even held a real gun and am hardly an expert but shooting someone in the face sounds like attempted murder to me. That guy could easily be dead right now barring some "good luck." If losing an eye can be considered lucky.
 

smastroyin

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Just so we're clear, OJ, I was having a little fun at your expense, but not to denigrate you, more the idea of the way people take snapshots (not just of Hernandez) where they don't know the context and try to develop an entire narrative around it.  Circumstantial evidence here suggests that Hernandez is a bad guy, and maybe he had gang things going on, but the other circumstantial evidence (e.g. the stupidity of the attempted cover-up) suggests to me that this was not a Big Gang (aka actual nationwide Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, etc.) deal.  But what the fuck do I know, I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.
 

singaporesoxfan

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Its worth noting that there were people in the crowd outside the hearing today wearing Hernandez jerseys.  And I don't think all of them were Enterprise employees.
 
Things I've learnt from Star Trek and the Hernandez case: Enterprise and red shirts = someone's going to get killed.
 

RoyHobbs

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Pg. 35 of "Win it For"

 
Surreal to think about what the two people in this photo will feel upon looking at it some 20 or 30 or 40 years from now.
 
What a waste and a sad ruining of at least two families.
 

Byrdbrain

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One thing I'm curious about is that the police court statement said 5 casings were recovered at the scene and also one was in the car.
It has also been stated that 5 shots were fired.
 
One of these statements isn't correct.
 
Probably not a big deal just something I noticed.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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singaporesoxfan said:
Things I've learnt from Star Trek and the Hernandez case: Enterprise and red shirts = someone's going to get killed.
 
I would also add that when someone says they'll "pick you up", it isn't necessarily a good thing.
 

Orange Juice

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Just so we're clear, OJ, I was having a little fun at your expense, but not to denigrate you, more the idea of the way people take snapshots (not just of Hernandez) where they don't know the context and try to develop an entire narrative around it.  Circumstantial evidence here suggests that Hernandez is a bad guy, and maybe he had gang things going on, but the other circumstantial evidence (e.g. the stupidity of the attempted cover-up) suggests to me that this was not a Big Gang (aka actual nationwide Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, etc.) deal.  But what the fuck do I know, I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.



Yeah, I had that feeling that I was taking your post too serious, sorry if I came off as adversarial.
I should have realized the whole comment was a long con just to use the word Blips.
Well played.
 

moly99

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Ralphwiggum said:
The system may not be perfect but I think (I hope) everyone appreciates why we don't convict people of murder based solely on what the police say happened at an arraignment hearing.  Right now things look spectacularly bad for Hernandez.  But right now all we know is what the police have told us, and those facts have been presented to us so as to support the motion to deny him bail.
 

None of it is the BS police usually throw at possibly innocent people though. There's nothing about Hernandez looking guilty when told of Lloyd's death, or that he didn't have an alibi or whatever. This is all very cut and dry stuff. Either they have a video of Hernandez returning to his house holding a gun or they don't. Either they have a video of Hernandez's vehicle driving into the industrial park with Lloyd in the car and then coming out without him or they don't.
 
This is all circumstantial evidence, but it is also objective rather than subjective.
 
bosoxsue said:
Has
anyone addressed why he rented all of these darned cars?  I'd think
that if you did a crime and used your own car, it would be easier to get
rid of the forensics trail by making it disappear somehow.
 
The idea is that if you return the car and then someone else rents it, it is hard for the police to prove which person the evidence is tied to, and thus it won't be admissible in court. At least that's why the drug smugglers I know do it. I have no idea why Hernandez would rent a car and then keep it around for the police to find, though.
 

DJnVa

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Byrdbrain said:
One thing I'm curious about is that the police court statement said 5 casings were recovered at the scene and also one was in the car.
It has also been stated that 5 shots were fired.
 
One of these statements isn't correct.
 
Probably not a big deal just something I noticed.
 
I didn't see the "5 shots fired", but from upthread we had this:
 
two through and through wounds to the victim's chest. Police returned to the scene and dug where the victim was, they found the bullets, indicating the victim was on the ground when he was shot. Both bullets were .45 caliber, consistent with the casings found. All fired from the same unknown gun
 
Just seeing reference to the 2 fired...
 

smastroyin

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Maybe they are just securing the house that everyone in New England knows is empty with no security system.
 

lexrageorge

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MuellerMen said:
This where I'm at.  I'm 99.9% sure that Aaron Hernandez pulled the trigger and is responsible for murdering a man whom he called a good friend.  And, when I read the Reddit post that CaptainLaddie summarized, I'm astonished that anyone (read: his attorney) can claim otherwise.  Yet . . . that 0.01% doubt rests in the judicial system - and all the potential flaws it's riddled with. I think it's more likely than not that the prosecution in O.J.'s case rendered a long list of damning evidence as impressive as what's summarised on the Reddit list.  We all know how the the OJ trial turned out.  At an arraignment, clearly the prosecution has the advantage of surprise and spotlight.  The defense has hardly begun its work.  In the court, the scales are more balanced.  I hate even thinking this, but unless Hernandez's defense in this case turns out to be every bit as inept as the prosecution in OJ's case - or the judge does something equally stupid  - Hernandez's legal guilt is no slam dunk.  
I agree with just about everything until your last sentence.  OK, maybe partially disagree.  While it's way too early to call this prosecution's case a slam dunk, many a prosecutor would love to have the amount of evidence in a murder trial that the Bristol County DA has right now.  Marcia Clark would have loved to have had half that evidence.  
 
Yes, the process must play out, and the defense does deserve the chance to state its case in front of a jury.  And there may very well be facts that have yet to come out that will support the defense. However, even an excellent defense team will struggle with this one based on what we know now.  
 
And I hope the idiots wearing the Hernandez jerseys all burn in hell.
 

pdub

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For what its worth, there's even a pic of Hernandez in his friend Carlos Ortiz's Facebook profile. They were definitely linked.
 

knucklecup

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pdub said:
For what its worth, there's even a pic of Hernandez in his friend Carlos Ortiz's Facebook profile. They were definitely linked.
 

 
with the comment: "I love u A... Always my nigga u know we here ...."
 
The kid would have killed somebody for Aaron... literally.
 

Oil Can Dan

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So how did police tie this murder to AH in the first place? Initial reports had a car rented by AH at the scene, but that's incorrect now. Then I thought I read that a key to the rental was found in the victims pocket, but that seems incorrect too. So what then? Is it video of the car driving down the dirt road to the scene?
 

Bergs

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Dead body + sister reporting text from dead man saying he's with "NFL"...pretty much all falls together after that.
 

Average Reds

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MuellerMen said:
Stop what?  Explaining my position, having an opinion?  That was my only post in this thread, so I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
 
How about this:  stop speculating about things you don't seem to understand, like the standard for what constitutes legal guilt or innocence. Or making analogies to the OJ case without really understanding what happened to cause his acquittal and why it has almost no bearing on this case. 
 

Kull

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H78 said:
Arraignment here for anyone who missed it.
 
That whole thing is completely surreal. And there is irony. The assistant DA, Bill McCauley, is my cousin, and comes from a strong football family background. His dad played for BC in the 50's and later coached football at West Point for a few seasons in the early 70's. Later he spent many years as coach and AD at a private school in Rhode Island, where all four sons played the game, including Bill. It was so strange to see Bill standing there with Hernandez in the background. Two lives so deeply entwined in football, and yet two completely opposite life trajectories. Hardly a new theme, I suppose, but so visceral in this case.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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MuellerMen said:
 
Stop what?  Explaining my position, having an opinion?  That was my only post in this thread, so I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
You've been cited by the "Logic Police", you must cease and desist, or else face a barrage of discreditation. Your opinions don't matter unless they're solely based on tangible evidence, and even then you're not allowed to treat them with any sort of strict belief.

In other words, don't worry about Red. It's just what he does. You made some decent points in your post, that should spark an actual conversation. Don't be deterred.
 

Ralphwiggum

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moly99 said:
None of it is the BS police usually throw at possibly innocent people though. There's nothing about Hernandez looking guilty when told of Lloyd's death, or that he didn't have an alibi or whatever. This is all very cut and dry stuff. Either they have a video of Hernandez returning to his house holding a gun or they don't. Either they have a video of Hernandez's vehicle driving into the industrial park with Lloyd in the car and then coming out without him or they don't.
 
This is all circumstantial evidence, but it is also objective rather than subjective.
 
I don't necessarily disagree, but that wasn't my point.  The facts presented at the arraignment are daunting, and the general public is free to pass judgment on the guy.  I made it clear that I think he deserves to be behind bars and held without bail until his trial (when he is probably going to be convicted of murder at which point he'll spend the rest of his life in jail, hopefully).
 
I was posting in response to another post where someone said this "I'm 99.9% sure that Aaron Hernandez pulled the trigger and is responsible for murdering a man whom he called a good friend.  And, when I read the Reddit post that CaptainLaddie summarized, I'm astonished that anyone (read: his attorney) can claim otherwise.  Yet . . . that 0.01% doubt rests in the judicial system - and all the potential flaws it's riddled."
 
Maybe I am reading too much into this but it reads to me like that classic shit we get when someone who looks obviously guilty goes into the criminal justice system.  I don't know that Hernandez pulled the trigger, but I am pretty sure that he orchestrated at least one killing, and maybe was involved in at least two more. Despite this, I also believe that he has a right to have an attorney scrutinize the police investigation and bring to light facts that they may have missed or that they may have glossed over that points to his innocence.  It is hard to imagine what those may be right now, but it is still his right.  If at the end of all of this Hernandez is found not guilty then we can have a debate about the flaws in the system, and draw parallels to OJ (if there are any).  Right now it is way premature for that discussion.
 

24JoshuaPoint

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I imagine it must take a little while to shave a toothbrush into a sharp point.
 
Depends. If you have a nice mildly course concrete wall it could literally take minutes. But I imagine most of the walls these days are painted surfaces. The floor might work but I gather those have some industrial latex on them or something too.
 

BucketOBalls

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Kilgore A. Trout said:
Just checking in to see if Hernandez killed anyone in jail overnight.  I imagine it must take a little while to shave a toothbrush into a sharp point.
 
It's hard to rent a car in jail, so I think that would be a problem for him.
 

MuellerMen

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Average Reds said:
How about this:  stop speculating about things you don't seem to understand, like the standard for what constitutes legal guilt or innocence. Or making analogies to the OJ case without really understanding what happened to cause his acquittal and why it has almost no bearing on this case. 
 
I see.  By your logic, then, only members of the legal community should contribute to this forum, as arbitrated by you.  I understand that my post may have been speculative, but it was also clearly stated and sparked some discussion, which I thought was the point of a forum. Those who responded to my post, while they didn't necessarily agree with me, at least responded in a measured way and made good points.  Your point, meanwhile, was merely to say "shut up," as though you are the final arbiter of what should be discussed on this non-legal forum.  If speculation is objectionable, in my view it is just as (if not more) objectionable, in the context of a forum, to silence a discussion of what isn't palatable to you.
 

Average Reds

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MuellerMen said:
I see.  By your logic, then, only members of the legal community should contribute to this forum, as arbitrated by you.  I understand that my post may have been speculative, but it was also clearly stated and sparked some discussion, which I thought was the point of a forum. Those who responded to my post, while they didn't necessarily agree with me, at least responded in a measured way and made good points.  Your point, meanwhile, was merely to say "shut up," as though you are the final arbiter of what should be discussed on this non-legal forum.  If speculation is objectionable, in my view it is just as (if not more) objectionable, in the context of a forum, to silence a discussion of what isn't palatable to you.
 
Let me be more specific. What made me respond as I did to your post is the notion that the OJ trial has any relevance to this case.  My strong opinion is that it does not. 
 
OJ's acquittal was driven by unique set of factors:
  • The racial animosity between the LAPD and the black community that existed in 1994
  • The proven misconduct of several of the detectives/forensic scientists in the case (even though that misconduct was not germane to the guilt or innocence of OJ)
  • The persuasiveness of the defense experts and attorneys
  • The almost unbelievable incompetence of the prosecuting attorneys - by far the most important factor in OJ's acquittal.
If you're going to dust this case off and use it as an example of how anyone can be acquitted despite strong evidence of their guilt, the burden is on you to show how and why the comparison is relevant.  You did not even attempt to do so - you just made an assertion.
 
Beyond this, you made a lot of general points about how the case could go forward that ignored the fact that we have a ton of very specific information already - information that simply cannot be effectively refuted.  We will eventually find out if what has been reported is true or not, but if, in fact, there is video of Hernandez driving to the murder site with the victim minutes before the killing, leaving minutes later and then showing up in his house with a gun in his hand, then I submit to you that no amount of legal brilliance on the part of Hernandez' legal team will matter.  He is done.
 
And again - it's fine to have a differing opinion.  But don't just assert it.  Make an argument and back it up.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Sorry, yes...I think in this particular case one reason to ask for the bail hearing is to see what the prosecutors disclose and how they characterize the evidence and the overall story.

Moreso than a typical case, Hernandez' team is going to have a lot of money to spend on attacking specific pieces of the story and trying to upset the overall case theory of the prosecutors.  So the sooner they can get going on doing so, the better for them.
 
If the evidence is as it has been suggested (which it may or may not be once it's looked at critically) I think all that may not matter, but I do think here there's a tactical aspect to the hearing.  Hernandez' publicity on this is already as bad as it can possibly be---there's really no incremental harm from having the bail hearing, in my opinion.
 

pjr

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Carmine Hose said:
He was probably still using his phone.  Didn't these guys watch The Wire?  Burner phones could've saved their asses.
CBS 4 (WFOR) in Miami is reporting he turned himself in .
 

rembrat

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Then no one snitched (yet).. Prosecutors knew about the mood inside of the car how exactly?
 

Bob420

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I have read a few different times that Wallace was wanted as an accessory after the fact. I assume he was one of the 3 that were in the car before and after the murder.  How does that work?
 

Tim Naehrings Girl

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He wasn't arrested in Miami, it was in Miramar which is in Borward County.  It is the next town over from where I live.  God Forbid South Florida not be involved in some big new story....unreal.
 

NortheasternPJ

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rembrat said:
Then no one snitched (yet).. Prosecutors knew about the mood inside of the car how exactly?
 
How this is going, Hernandez probably left a tape recorder on by mistake in the car or recorded it all on his iPhone and sent it as an audio text to his boy.
 
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