2024 NBA General Offseason Thread

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,248
Pittsburgh, PA
OKC’s problem was Chet and Giddey not being able to hit a shot. Even with that problem they came the closest in the west to beating Dallas. Caruso will shoot better than Giddey and as an added bonus he is a great defender. Chet’s bad shooting is likely a sample size problem. They also got beaten up in the paint at times and Hartenstein will help there. I think they are the clear favorites to win the west and our biggest threat.
I agree with this. Also, Chet played the 5 almost the entire season, and got abused by Gafford in that series. Switching him to an oversized 4 where his perimeter game and shooting can be at a premium, and anchoring the middle with a beef big who is also agile with a good motor, is a massive upgrade with percolations down their entire lineup. Hartenstein is the perfect signing for them if they want to be more built to beat Dallas. Probably helps with Denver and Minnesota too, albeit less so. Denver still matches up with them well, it took a lot to dethrone them, but they have a lot more roster questions than OKC does at this point.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,312
around the way
Hartenstein and Robinson were the Lively/Gafford combo for the Knicks. Splitting their minutes allowed each to exert maximum effort, for both teams, which analytics likely play a large role when you look back on how these in-game rotations looked. The two-man energy 5's is a powerful tool but Hartenstein has made huge leaps in each of his last two seasons. He's really fuckin good and most importantly knows his role and what he's best at. The annoying flash to paint, pump fake, lefty push shot is unstoppable with spacing. His BBIQ is off the charts.
Agree with you. FWIW, I can't believe how often I'm pumping Hartenstein's tires here, but the guy is an impact player. I think that it's more likely that his deal looks really good at the end of that contract than really bad, nevermind that OKC needs a couple of guys who are old enough to rent cars. No-brainer signing.
 

astrozombie

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
521
Why would you assume this is it for Garland? The two of them seem to work well enough together. Garland hustles more on D, but can't create his own shot as well as Mitchell can.

or are you assuming they're going to trade Garland for bigger positions of need? I'm sure he would fetch a lot of interest, but I'm not seeing the strategic direction from Cleveland if so. They seem to be buying into the idea that they have 2-3 more years of Mitchell to figure out how to build a contender around him.
My understanding is that Garland's team (Klutch, FWIW) wanted Garland out of Cleveland if Mitchell re-signed. Klutch's view is that Mitchell's presence will devalue Garland by taking away touches and playmaking. Which is a sad way to view things, but as everyone says, "this is a business". I initially got the sense that there might be some personality clashes, but I think it's not really that. Really just Garland would rather run a team than be a perpetual second fiddle to Mitchell.
The crazy thing, I am reasonably sure that Mitchell finishes his 3 year extension somewhere other than Cleveland. I agree with the other posters who said that Mitchell took the money offered to him because he could always agitate for a trade later. I will not be surprised at all in a year when Mitchell is shipped to the Heat for some combo of Herro/Robinson/Rozier, maybe some filler and a few picks. If I had any sympathy for the Cavs, it would suck that they could lose out on both guys in short order.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,883
This feels about right to me. One interesting thing: I don't think we've seen anything from Hauser along the lines of, "I want to be in Boston for a while." He's playing his cards close to the vest.
Pictures of him in that Favre jersey don't help :)
 

The Social Chair

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 17, 2010
6,354
I think the lesson I'm taking away from this off-season is that under the new rules it is a lot harder for teams to improve, especially teams with expensive cores. You've got to gamble on players with obvious weaknesses (like Dallas signing Klay) and pay bigger money for less-established players (the Quickly deal was crazy, imo). At the moment, I think Philly is the only possible contender who got definitively better by adding George.

All of this is great news for the Celtics.
Teams like Denver, without willing owners, are not able to keep their supporting talent either.

Celtics have another good health year and things are looking good for them.
 

Senator Donut

post-Domer
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2010
5,699
I would've dropped a ton of assets to get Markkanen. He gives them size and secondary scoring (they badly need both), and unlike most of their rotation is in his prime (while still being just 27). He's available, per everyone.
There's no reason they can't still get Markkanen, unless the plan was to use only cap space and picks to get him. Presumably Utah wants some of the young talent that would comprise a salary match. Eyeballing that roster, OKC still has plenty of depth to make a consolidating trade.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,975
Can't imagine this will be too costly...
I presume that the salary is right given the GM so I think that IND getting Wiseman is a really good move. If they can get Wiseman to function in their offensive system, his defense will be really helpful.

And if not, I presume it's not a great investment.

He and Obi will have great battles in practice!
 

TomRicardo

rusty cohlebone
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 6, 2006
21,308
Row 14
My understanding is that Garland's team (Klutch, FWIW) wanted Garland out of Cleveland if Mitchell re-signed. Klutch's view is that Mitchell's presence will devalue Garland by taking away touches and playmaking. Which is a sad way to view things, but as everyone says, "this is a business". I initially got the sense that there might be some personality clashes, but I think it's not really that. Really just Garland would rather run a team than be a perpetual second fiddle to Mitchell.
The crazy thing, I am reasonably sure that Mitchell finishes his 3 year extension somewhere other than Cleveland. I agree with the other posters who said that Mitchell took the money offered to him because he could always agitate for a trade later. I will not be surprised at all in a year when Mitchell is shipped to the Heat for some combo of Herro/Robinson/Rozier, maybe some filler and a few picks. If I had any sympathy for the Cavs, it would suck that they could lose out on both guys in short order.
Is Mitchell losing a body part in this scenario? The Heat are an apron team so it would have to Herro/Rozier or Butler if he opts in to his player option. Mitchell under contract will get you more than the Heat will be able to offer. I was talking about this with Heat fan at the gym and the Heat are pretty much in NBA purgatory. Too good to rebuild, too bad to really compete. Probably in line with the Lakers at this point.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,852
Imaginationland
Is Mitchell losing a body part in this scenario? The Heat are an apron team so it would have to Herro/Rozier or Butler if he opts in to his player option. Mitchell under contract will get you more than the Heat will be able to offer. I was talking about this with Heat fan at the gym and the Heat are pretty much in NBA purgatory. Too good to rebuild, too bad to really compete. Probably in line with the Lakers at this point.
The Lakers will eventually get a superstar to join in free agency, that's how it's gone for them forever. They'll be in purgatory until they very suddenly, aren't.

The Heat on the other hand enjoy the reputation of a top free agent destination, but by my count have gotten exactly one all-star level free agent in the last dozen years. Pat Riley is 79, Jimmy Butler will be 35 in September. I'm looking forward to their fall.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,852
Imaginationland
There's no reason they can't still get Markkanen, unless the plan was to use only cap space and picks to get him. Presumably Utah wants some of the young talent that would comprise a salary match. Eyeballing that roster, OKC still has plenty of depth to make a consolidating trade.
They can, but now it's duplicative with Holmgren and Hartenstein on the roster. Resources would now be better spent elsewhere.
 

TomRicardo

rusty cohlebone
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 6, 2006
21,308
Row 14
There's no reason they can't still get Markkanen, unless the plan was to use only cap space and picks to get him. Presumably Utah wants some of the young talent that would comprise a salary match. Eyeballing that roster, OKC still has plenty of depth to make a consolidating trade.
Utah would have wanted salary matching as well simply because they are so far away from the salary floor and I don't think Ainge wants to just give a veteran cash because you have to or the "Tobias Harris"
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,273
My understanding is that Garland's team (Klutch, FWIW) wanted Garland out of Cleveland if Mitchell re-signed. Klutch's view is that Mitchell's presence will devalue Garland by taking away touches and playmaking. Which is a sad way to view things, but as everyone says, "this is a business". I initially got the sense that there might be some personality clashes, but I think it's not really that. Really just Garland would rather run a team than be a perpetual second fiddle to Mitchell.
The crazy thing, I am reasonably sure that Mitchell finishes his 3 year extension somewhere other than Cleveland. I agree with the other posters who said that Mitchell took the money offered to him because he could always agitate for a trade later. I will not be surprised at all in a year when Mitchell is shipped to the Heat for some combo of Herro/Robinson/Rozier, maybe some filler and a few picks. If I had any sympathy for the Cavs, it would suck that they could lose out on both guys in short order.
It is a business but it would take more than Mitchell’s touches to prevent Garland from being a max guy so not even sure how much that factors in.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,494
I get where you are coming from however is Jrue Holiday a critical cog?
Fair point; sloppy wording on my part. I was thinking more of JT and JB in their mid 20s. And then LAC last year, where they fell apart. Just seems like these teams that build with superstars-from-a-few-years-ago dont go as planned for more than 6-week mid-season run. "If they can play like that in the playoffs, they'll be tough to beat." But they rarely seem to "play like that." Sixers are counting on George to be more than I think he can be over a full season *and* two months of playoffs.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,273
They can, but now it's duplicative with Holmgren and Hartenstein on the roster. Resources would now be better spent elsewhere.
Would it be though? That is one heckuva 3-headed monster at the 4/5 and it would eliminate all of the Jaylin and Kenrich minutes which is a big upgrade. This is also the advantage of it being Hartenstein as he could easily get his 25mpg off the bench.
 

Senator Donut

post-Domer
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2010
5,699
Would it be though? That is one heckuva 3-headed monster at the 4/5 and it would eliminate all of the Jaylin and Kenrich minutes which is a big upgrade. This is also the advantage of it being Hartenstein as he could easily get his 25mpg off the bench.
That's where my head is at. I'll also note that Markkanen started at the 3 alongside Allen and Mobley, so you could even mess around with all three on the court at once. Regarding @Euclis20's point, that would be a lot of draft, outgoing players, and salary resources committed to the frontcourt, after he presumably signs an extension, so I get where he's coming from.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,248
Pittsburgh, PA
Would it be though? That is one heckuva 3-headed monster at the 4/5 and it would eliminate all of the Jaylin and Kenrich minutes which is a big upgrade. This is also the advantage of it being Hartenstein as he could easily get his 25mpg off the bench.
Who's the highest salaried bench player in the league? Westbrook? Would be funny if it were a member of OKC who ends up with that title.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,852
Imaginationland
Who's the highest salaried bench player in the league? Westbrook? Would be funny if it were a member of OKC who ends up with that title.
Westbrook made just $4M this year. I believe the player with the highest 2024 salary that played the majority of their games off the bench was Bruce Brown, who made $22M and started just 11 times in 34 games with Toronto. He still started the majority of the year (he started all 33 games with Indy before being traded), so if we're stipulating full year, it's Bojan Bogdanovic, who started just 27 of 57 games and made about $19.5M.

If we're limiting it to guys who were really truly bench players for the full year and only started a few games due to injury, it's probably Caris Levert. Started just 10 of 68 games, and made $16M.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,863
I'm probably on an island here but I like the Warriors' job of resetting while staying competitive.
They are giving off late Pats dynasty vibes. Remove Curry and it's basically a bottom 5 team. If they can somehow bag Markenen, then maybe there's something but I just don't see it in the loaded WC. The Wiseman pick really sapped them. The cutthroat move now that Klay is gone is to trade Curry to Charlotte for a truckload.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
50,448
The cutthroat move now that Klay is gone is to trade Curry to Charlotte for a truckload.
You really expect this to happen? I would love to see Dunleavy try to get a trade off like this without being told to do it by Curry and the Warriors ownership.

These sorts of trades don't happen in a stars league.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,248
Pittsburgh, PA
Westbrook made just $4M this year. I believe the player with the highest 2024 salary that played the majority of their games off the bench was Bruce Brown, who made $22M and started just 11 times in 34 games with Toronto. He still started the majority of the year (he started all 33 games with Indy before being traded), so if we're stipulating full year, it's Bojan Bogdanovic, who started just 27 of 57 games and made about $19.5M.

If we're limiting it to guys who were really truly bench players for the full year and only started a few games due to injury, it's probably Caris Levert. Started just 10 of 68 games, and made $16M.
Thank you! So Hartenstein would likely set a record nobody would want him setting.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,248
Pittsburgh, PA
You really expect this to happen? I would love to see Dunleavy try to get a trade off like this without being told to do it by Curry and the Warriors ownership.

These sorts of trades don't happen in a stars league.
I don't think it would be Charlotte, but I could see somebody giving up a king's ransom thinking they can get a contention window together with the last embers of Curry's time as an all-NBA player plus whatever stars they have on hand. And Curry is only signed for 2 more years, so if GSW knows right now they're not going to ink him again to what he wants, next year is the expected time to trade him, but this year wouldn't be a shock imo.

Who has a large, near-max or max expiring? Houston for FVV + assets?

Or, what teams want to upgrade their flawed younger star? Would Indiana give up Haliburton and other assets? Memphis willing to chuck Ja Morant, plus maybe Bane or JJJ just to make the salaries work? Both sides would at least think hard about it.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,347
Herndon, VA
I don't think it would be Charlotte, but I could see somebody giving up a king's ransom thinking they can get a contention window together with the last embers of Curry's time as an all-NBA player plus whatever stars they have on hand. And Curry is only signed for 2 more years, so if GSW knows right now they're not going to ink him again to what he wants, next year is the expected time to trade him, but this year wouldn't be a shock imo.

Who has a large, near-max or max expiring? Houston for FVV + assets?

Or, what teams want to upgrade their flawed younger star? Would Indiana give up Haliburton and other assets? Memphis willing to chuck Ja Morant, plus maybe Bane or JJJ just to make the salaries work? Both sides would at least think hard about it.
Philadelphia and Maxey?
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
8,883
In case you're wondering how Shams gets his scoops, he just called a guy who had the 86th-best 3-point % last year "one of the NBA's best three-point shooters."

PS - the two tallest guys on the Warriors' current roster are 6'9. I'm a little surprised they were uninterested in Tillman and Kornet.
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,943
NYC
In case you're wondering how Shams gets his scoops, he just called a guy who had the 86th-best 3-point % last year "one of the NBA's best three-point shooters."

PS - the two tallest guys on the Warriors' current roster are 6'9. I'm a little surprised they were uninterested in Tillman and Kornet.
They got their 7’-0” unikornet in BC’s own Quinten Post.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,863
You really expect this to happen? I would love to see Dunleavy try to get a trade off like this without being told to do it by Curry and the Warriors ownership.

These sorts of trades don't happen in a stars league.
No I don't expect it, but it would be fun, and would actually set GS up for a future after Curry. I'm sure Curry will get whatever he wants out of the twilight of his career.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
50,448
In case you're wondering how Shams gets his scoops, he just called a guy who had the 86th-best 3-point % last year "one of the NBA's best three-point shooters."

PS - the two tallest guys on the Warriors' current roster are 6'9. I'm a little surprised they were uninterested in Tillman and Kornet.
Your point about Shams is spot on. That said:
85007
Nice trade for Dubs if it happens.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,852
Imaginationland
In case you're wondering how Shams gets his scoops, he just called a guy who had the 86th-best 3-point % last year "one of the NBA's best three-point shooters."

PS - the two tallest guys on the Warriors' current roster are 6'9. I'm a little surprised they were uninterested in Tillman and Kornet.
Eh, I don't think Shams is really reaching with that description. He's been in the 3 point contest 3 times (and he won it in 2020), and he was top 3 in 3PM for 4 of the last 5 years. He's 10th among active players in 3PM, and everyone in front of him was drafted at least 12 years ago (He was drafted in 2016).

He can be relied on for two things: Hitting 3s at volume, efficiently (40% for his career on 7.6 3PAs per game is exceptional), and he'll stay healthy (he's missed 6 games in 8 years). He's still basically got nothing in terms of playoff experience and if you need anything other than 3 point shooting you're SOL, but he can definitely do that.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,680
Hield had a strange playoff series against NY. He hit just one shot in 30 minutes in the first 3 games combined, DNP-CD the next 2, and then 20 points in 21 minutes in their elimination game, 6-9 from 3.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
8,883
They got their 7’-0” unikornet in BC’s own Quinten Post.
Thanks for the correction. Basketball Ref did me dirty by not including the draft picks on their roster for next year (which is fair since they're not signed yet).

I concede to everyone's points about Hield -- I also would've described him as a great 3P shooter until that playoff series jon abbey mentioned. That made me check BRef tonight and I was surprised where his 3P % last year ranked in the league.

I hope for the Warriors' sake he's got another year or two of 40% 3P shooting left in the tank.

Also, for those who have Athletic subscriptions, this is a good rundown of the issues Thompson was having with the team (and vice-versa). It's a more nuanced take than the tweet linked a page or two back.
 
Last edited:

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,697
Fair point; sloppy wording on my part. I was thinking more of JT and JB in their mid 20s. And then LAC last year, where they fell apart. Just seems like these teams that build with superstars-from-a-few-years-ago dont go as planned for more than 6-week mid-season run. "If they can play like that in the playoffs, they'll be tough to beat." But they rarely seem to "play like that." Sixers are counting on George to be more than I think he can be over a full season *and* two months of playoffs.
I understand where you are coming from. Paul George and Jimmy Butler are somewhat alike from that perspective. Neither should be counted on for more than about 55 games in the regular season and it’s a coin flip as to whether they will be available for the playoffs.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,273
Kyle "Slo-mo" Anderson to the Warriors for 3/$27m as part of a sign-and-trade, according to Woj. For a second-round pick swap and cash, apparently.
Slo-Mo $27m, Big-Mo stays with his brother in Orlando for $22m.

‘Twas a good day to be a backup Mo.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
5,103
Saint Paul, MN
What would a Hield sign and trade look like? Warriors only have a 7.3 million dollar trade exception left. I imagine that is not enough for Hield? And if so they are going to have to send out salary that Philly would be interested in?
 

TomRicardo

rusty cohlebone
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 6, 2006
21,308
Row 14
What would a Hield sign and trade look like? Warriors only have a 7.3 million dollar trade exception left. I imagine that is not enough for Hield? And if so they are going to have to send out salary that Philly would be interested in?
There isn't a ton of open cap space left so maybe Hield doesn't much of a choice than taking less 10 million ... he really needs to fire his agent
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
50,448
Hield's impact is roughly around league average. This whole proposed transaction is just the market catching up to him + the new league economics.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,312
around the way
There isn't a ton of open cap space left so maybe Hield doesn't much of a choice than taking less 10 million ... he really needs to fire his agent
Facts. DeJesus notes accurately that Hield is nothing special, but he's in the ballpark of Klay now (maybe better) and is likely getting a fraction of his deal.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
8,883
Golden State only had 7.3 million left of the Klay trade exception. How do they get to 18 million in the first two years?
Wait and see. It was reported earlier today that the Mikal Bridges trade has additional players in it in order to make it work.

Hollinger was speculating yesterday that the Slo-Mo and Klay deals might be combined with the Hield deal to make everything work.

Edit - And now the Athletic is reporting that this will be the case:

They will acquire him in a sign-and-trade with the Philadelphia 76ers that will be expanded to five teams to make it work, league sources said.
 
Last edited: