2024 NBA General Offseason Thread

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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I dunno. It sure seems like NY was the plan all along with his father going to the Knicks as the Asst Coach a week after the Mavs season ended. Those coincidences don’t happen by accident.
The NYKs tampered early and offered more money than the Mavs at that point, so it was a fait accompli long before Dad got the job. Rick signing with his best friend & Jalen's godfather Leon Rose, just buttoned it up

What's startling is Brunson was told No Thanks by Cuban several times (Summer before the season, pre-season, check back in 20 games, after 20 games with Luka injured) leading up to the trade deadline Brunson was under the impression that the Mavs were shopping him at the trade deadline.

I think we both agree that Cuban screwed this up and should have spent a little less time/money on extending/signing guys like Powell, Kleber, MaGee, Hardaway and focused on Brunson.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I think even Cuban has admitted he got it wrong.
 
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InstaFace

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Sep 27, 2016
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I dunno. It sure seems like NY was the plan all along with his father going to the Knicks as the Asst Coach a week after the Mavs season ended. Those coincidences don’t happen by accident.
I would buy that, if his father went to the Knicks months before the season ended. Rick Brunson going there a week after the Mavs were eliminated in the WCF says "This is our free agency strategy", not "this has been agreed months or a year before", and doesn't contradict anything Brunson was saying.

Anyway, the important points of the story, which could conceivably be under factual dispute, are:

1) Jalen/agent went to Cuban before the season, offered to take 4/$55, was rebuffed
2) Jalen/agent went to Cuban 20 games into the season, offered to take 4/$55, was rebuffed
3) Cuban came to Jalen/agent after the trade deadline, offered the 4/$55 extension, Brunson said no at that point
4) After the Mavs lose in the WCF, Cuban goes on air and says "we can pay [Brunson] the most money", but then an offer never comes to Brunson from the Mavs during moratorium
5) The Knicks made the most attractive offer in free agency, which matched up well with Brunson's personal interests as well as financially

If all of that is true, particularly #1 and #2, then it can't have "been the plan all along" for him to go to the Knicks, because that would have shot "the plan" in the head.

Now, it's possible that #4 is technically correct, but by the time moratorium comes, his agent is getting vibes from the Knicks and is rebuffing Cuban on behalf of Brunson, so a formal offer never comes because they were never outbidding the Knicks. And that would be slightly untoward, but well within the usual pre-free-agency maneuvering. But even then, in the most charitable case, Cuban still bungled it bigtime, because the horse had long left the barn by then.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I would buy that, if his father went to the Knicks months before the season ended. Rick Brunson going there a week after the Mavs were eliminated in the WCF says "This is our free agency strategy", not "this has been agreed months or a year before", and doesn't contradict anything Brunson was saying.

Anyway, the important points of the story, which could conceivably be under factual dispute, are:

1) Jalen/agent went to Cuban before the season, offered to take 4/$55, was rebuffed
2) Jalen/agent went to Cuban 20 games into the season, offered to take 4/$55, was rebuffed
3) Cuban came to Jalen/agent after the trade deadline, offered the 4/$55 extension, Brunson said no at that point
4) After the Mavs lose in the WCF, Cuban goes on air and says "we can pay [Brunson] the most money", but then an offer never comes to Brunson from the Mavs during moratorium
5) The Knicks made the most attractive offer in free agency, which matched up well with Brunson's personal interests as well as financially

If all of that is true, particularly #1 and #2, then it can't have "been the plan all along" for him to go to the Knicks, because that would have shot "the plan" in the head.

Now, it's possible that #4 is technically correct, but by the time moratorium comes, his agent is getting vibes from the Knicks and is rebuffing Cuban on behalf of Brunson, so a formal offer never comes because they were never outbidding the Knicks. And that would be slightly untoward, but well within the usual pre-free-agency maneuvering. But even then, in the most charitable case, Cuban still bungled it bigtime, because the horse had long left the barn by then.
Why can’t they all be true? Cuban was looking for a bigger fish and Team Brunson knew that he wasn’t going to tie up these funds in a guy who at the time was a backup guard who they didn’t even know would be a good fit with Doncic (we still don’t know that he would since when they were together they weren’t). GM-speak, Agent-speak. The latter knew Cuban wouldn’t agree at that point and Vice versa later.

As for your first part, Rick Brunson had a job coaching his NJ high school team to a state championship. Why would he quit early to sign with the Knicks when the Knicks were still playing in their season? Once both were through, Brunson left for the Knicks which is what you’d expect from a previously agreed upon discussion. Does nobody recall that summer of FA? It was assumed that Brunson was going to NY once the Knicks season ended and they signed his Dad like 10 days later once everyone got back from vacation.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Spurs announce Vassell had foot surgery this summer and will miss the start of the regular season. They haven’t even began training camp and are tanking for Flagg already.
 

lovegtm

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i think they’ll struggle to be bottom of the league. lots of young guys who are more likely to get better on that roster
"'Mostly young guys in the process of getting better" is exactly how you end up near the bottom of the league.

Wemby is crazy good, probably makes All-NBA and good shot at DPOY, but he's one guy in a conference loaded with experienced and talented teams.
 

slamminsammya

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Jul 31, 2006
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"'Mostly young guys in the process of getting better" is exactly how you end up near the bottom of the league.

Wemby is crazy good, probably makes All-NBA and good shot at DPOY, but he's one guy in a conference loaded with experienced and talented teams.
I think they'll still be near the bottom, but they'd have to be keeping a number of guys out who really need the reps to be actually tanking for the top seed IMO.

Vegas has them at 36.5 wins. Theres 9 teams below them, most of them with pretty substantial differences in expected wins. I don't see them tanking absent an actually serious injury to Wemby.
 

HomeRunBaker

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i think they’ll struggle to be bottom of the league. lots of young guys who are more likely to get better on that roster
I’m not crazy about many of the Spurs young guys which is surely why I don’t see where they make a massive leap anytime soon. Vassell is ok but not a Top-2 on a contender, Sochan is interesting and young but I’m not sure he has great upside with his physical limitations and Keldon Johnson screams journeyman as he gives me Ron Mercer vibes. Castle will have a great opportunity to learn from one of the best and I do like his potential but as a whole their non-Wemby youngs aren’t anything special imo.
 

TomRicardo

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The NYKs tampered early and offered more money than the Mavs at that point, so it was a fait accompli long before Dad got the job. Rick signing with his best friend & Jalen's godfather Leon Rose, just buttoned it up

What's startling is Brunson was told No Thanks by Cuban several times (Summer before the season, pre-season, check back in 20 games, after 20 games with Luka injured) leading up to the trade deadline Brunson was under the impression that the Mavs were shopping him at the trade deadline.

I think we both agree that Cuban screwed this up and should have spent a little less time/money on extending/signing guys like Powell, Kleber, MaGee, Hardaway and focused on Brunson.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I think even Cuban has admitted he got it wrong.
I mean, I don't think the Mavericks go to the finals last year with Brunson instead of Kyrie. There is a reason why Brunson looked so much better on the Knicks. Brunson performs best in a flowing offensive. Luka demands ISO to catch and shoots. It was the same thing with Porzingis.
 

ifmanis5

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Sep 29, 2007
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Things we learned today: J.Isaac bulked up to play the 5, Lonzo Ball is ready to play and

View: https://twitter.com/LegionHoops/status/1840790972491551063

ESPN releases their NBA win projections for the 2024-25 season
Eastern Conference: 1) Celtics [52.4 wins] 2) Cavaliers [50.6 wins] 3) Bucks [46.7 wins] 4) Pacers [46.7 wins] 5) Knicks [45.4 wins]
Western Conference: 1) Thunder [53.7 wins] 2) Grizzlies [51.1 wins] 3) Mavericks [49.7 wins] 4) Kings [49.4 wins] 5) Nuggets [47.4]
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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I mean, I don't think the Mavericks go to the finals last year with Brunson instead of Kyrie. There is a reason why Brunson looked so much better on the Knicks. Brunson performs best in a flowing offensive. Luka demands ISO to catch and shoots. It was the same thing with Porzingis.
100% agree with you on Luka's ISO style of play. I'm not as high on him as the NBA Media.

MAVs were trending up with Brunson & they probably make the playoffs 2 years ago (+last season) with JB. Kyrie's CAP space could have been used to add a better player than Grant Williams & they could have added players with the assets they sent for Ky. BUT there is no guarantee they make the FINALS with Brunson instead of Irving.

IMO Brunson has been better than Kyrie for 2 years now. He also likes contract certainty & extends on massively discounted deals (couldn't help myself WBCD :cool:).

It appears the MAVs game plan was to not offer an extension to Brunson before the trade deadline & focus that summer on trading for Christian Wood ($15M), signing Javale McGee (3/$20M), & extending Maxi Kleber (3/$33M) while already having Dwight Powell, Boban, Willie Cauley Stein, Chriss, Bertans, & Moses Brown on the roster the previous season.

Going cheap on Brunson while monopolizing every backup 5 in the market was an interesting strategy. Trading for Kyrie was kind of an admission that they screwed up Brunson, since they are both offense-first, ball-dominant PGs (& Cuban has admitted as much)

Then again, I once saw a bumper sticker that alluded to everything being BIGGER IN TEXAS, so Cuban did deliver on that promise.
 

the moops

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Jan 19, 2016
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Things we learned today: J.Isaac bulked up to play the 5, Lonzo Ball is ready to play and

View: https://twitter.com/LegionHoops/status/1840790972491551063

ESPN releases their NBA win projections for the 2024-25 season
Eastern Conference: 1) Celtics [52.4 wins] 2) Cavaliers [50.6 wins] 3) Bucks [46.7 wins] 4) Pacers [46.7 wins] 5) Knicks [45.4 wins]
Western Conference: 1) Thunder [53.7 wins] 2) Grizzlies [51.1 wins] 3) Mavericks [49.7 wins] 4) Kings [49.4 wins] 5) Nuggets [47.4]
This is a joke right? No Minnesota, no Philadelphia, etc
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
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I guess Ramona knows what she needs to do to avoid Zach Lowe's fate. What a load of Lakers-PR bs. I'm sure every team late in the second round "considered" Bronny.

The Golden State Warriors debated selecting former USC guard Bronny James with the 52nd pick of June's draft, but declined to do so to "respect the wishes" of his father, Los Angeles Lakers star LeBron James, sources told ESPN's Ramona Shelburne.

Golden State had the 19-year-old on their draft board and liked the younger James' skill set, according to Shelburne. Ultimately, the Warriors passed on him to select Boston College big man Quinten Post, allowing the Lakers to select James with the 55th pick.
https://thescore.com/nba/news/3090774
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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I guess Ramona knows what she needs to do to avoid Zach Lowe's fate. What a load of Lakers-PR bs. I'm sure every team late in the second round "considered" Bronny.



https://thescore.com/nba/news/3090774
Givony is an unbiased and reliable source. He said back during the pre-draft workout period that every team he talked to had trouble bringing Bronny in for pre-draft workouts. The only team besides the Lakers that Klutch allowed him to workout for was Phoenix and they brought him back for a second one later in the process.

There is no way that Bronny wasn’t a legit 2nd round consideration regardless of his name.
 

PedroKsBambino

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There is no way that Bronny wasn’t a legit 2nd round consideration regardless of his name.
We kind of know that the above is not true, because he was passed on more than 20 times in the second round. So, we know for a fact most of the league didn't think he was worth a second-round pick.

I think it's fair to say---and suspect this underlies what you say above---that prior to the college season it was quite legitimate to project Bronny as a draftable one and done guy. But after his awful freshman year, I do not think it is realistic to say anymore that he was a legit 2nd round pick other than who his father was....and the great majority of the league demonstrated they feel the same way. He was BAD on the court, and that has to carry some real weight.

I think it is a lot more likely GS was assessing the possiblity of getting Lebron to go there than that they actually wanted Bronny as a player
 

Euclis20

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Aug 3, 2004
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We kind of know that the above is not true, because he was passed on more than 20 times in the second round. So, we know for a fact most of the league didn't think he was worth a second-round pick.

I think it's fair to say---and suspect this underlies what you say above---that prior to the college season it was quite legitimate to project Bronny as a draftable one and done guy. But after his awful freshman year, I do not think it is realistic to say anymore that he was a legit 2nd round pick other than who his father was....and the great majority of the league demonstrated they feel the same way. He was BAD on the court, and that has to carry some real weight.

I think it is a lot more likely GS was assessing the possiblity of getting Lebron to go there than that they actually wanted Bronny as a player
A big part of his awful freshman year was his health issue, which of course should have further depressed his draft stock.

The nice part about being on the other side of this argument is that it's impossible to really lose - if he fails, so what, the failure rate of late 2nd round picks is incredibly high regardless. Nothing he does going forward will prove he didn't deserve to be drafted, guys picked at that spot frequently look like they have no business being drafted.

I think he was pretty clearly not worth a 2nd round pick (his size and instruction he's already received based on his upbringing leaves little in the way of future upside, he had a major health scare, he played terribly for a terrible team in college, he was picked 55th by the team his dad plays for and basically runs, he looked like he didn't belong on the court in summer league, etc) but I can't really make myself care about it. Maybe I'd give a shit if I were a Lakers fan and the team used a draft pick, money and minutes on a player who didn't deserve it, but I'm not so I don't.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
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The funniest part is the Warriors not taking Bronny because it was against LeBron's wishes. If the Warriors though Bronny could help their team, why would they care about another team's player's wishes?