2021-22 NBA Off-season Thread

Kliq

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Randomly guessing: CP3, Rose, Love and...Iguodala?

I got it! Although, now I think people will assume I looked it up earlier.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Couldn't get Iguodala, that's a good pull. 17 years in the NBA, he's only made 1 all-star team.
Wow, Iggy didn't even have great counting stats but a product of the wacky '11-'12 lockout-shortened season I suppose. Interesting team when you look at the veterans and young guys though. Tony Battie and Elton Brand at 12-13th years in the league, then Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner and Nikola Vucevic all in their first few seasons. Lou Williams appears to be their median experience player at 6th year in the league. Iguodala was the only All-Star but they definitely had an All Future Supporting Cast team.
 

Smokey Joe

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Took the time to view the post this was in regards to and am mildly disappointed this wasn’t a reference to robbing a blind man. Does this make me a bad person?
Not you, just Carlos Boozers agent. Who surprisingly, still has an (appropriate) job in the NBA.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Not really sure where to put this, but I thought this little addendum to the Last Dance about Luc Longley was pretty interesting if you have an hour to kill.

 

HomeRunBaker

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Not you, just Carlos Boozers agent. Who surprisingly, still has an (appropriate) job in the NBA.
Who was his agent? In Gordon Gund’s statement in the days following he was very clear that Carlos, and to the lesser degree his wife, were the ones responding to him repeatedly in the meeting that they understood the arrangement.
 

Smokey Joe

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Who was his agent? In Gordon Gund’s statement in the days following he was very clear that Carlos, and to the lesser degree his wife, were the ones responding to him repeatedly in the meeting that they understood the arrangement.
Rob Pelinka
 

JM3

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Random thought about something I don't think I've heard floated...

Doesn't Ben Simmons to the Wizards make some sense? They have a variety of contracts, all their picks, etc. & he seems like a really good fit with Beal.

Zards could give it a test run, & even if they end up having to trade Beal, they still have Simmons to build around.

Simmons for KCP/Harrell/Rui/Advija 2022 & 2024 1sts or something?
 

sezwho

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Random thought about something I don't think I've heard floated...

Doesn't Ben Simmons to the Wizards make some sense? They have a variety of contracts, all their picks, etc. & he seems like a really good fit with Beal.

Zards could give it a test run, & even if they end up having to trade Beal, they still have Simmons to build around.

Simmons for KCP/Harrell/Rui/Advija 2022 & 2024 1sts or something?
It’s so difficult to put a value on Simmons that you almost have to approach purely through the lens of retaining Beal.

If he’s a fan then see what it takes, as keeping the Wizards on Beal(e) Street would seemingly be Job #1, but otherwise do you really want to have bet your franchise you can build around Ben? I don’t think I would.
 

ManicCompression

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Random thought about something I don't think I've heard floated...

Doesn't Ben Simmons to the Wizards make some sense? They have a variety of contracts, all their picks, etc. & he seems like a really good fit with Beal.

Zards could give it a test run, & even if they end up having to trade Beal, they still have Simmons to build around.

Simmons for KCP/Harrell/Rui/Advija 2022 & 2024 1sts or something?
I feel like this is "equivalent value" for Simmons, but I don't know why Philly would do this trade because those pieces plus Embiid would make the team worse than it currently is. As flawed as Simmons can be, he still adds quite a bit on defense and helps win games in the regular season. Rui would need to take a pretty big leap to make this tempting for them.
 

Swedgin

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I feel like this is "equivalent value" for Simmons, but I don't know why Philly would do this trade because those pieces plus Embiid would make the team worse than it currently is. As flawed as Simmons can be, he still adds quite a bit on defense and helps win games in the regular season. Rui would need to take a pretty big leap to make this tempting for them.
I assume Morey's order of preference in a return for Simmons goes something like: 1) Star 2) Good players on not bad deals, which fit the current team and/or could be moved in a later deal to acquire a star along with a few picks and 3) boat load of picks.

As an iteration of #2, Philly should be able to do better. Harrell looks cooked. KCP is a valuable role player. Where this turns is Deni and Rui. I confess to not having invested much time watching Wizards basketball, so my sense of Rui and Deni's value is from the analysis of others. Like a new car driven off the lot, most picks outside the top of the lottery lose value once made. In other words, teams will value the #12 pick, than the player team X selected with that pick. Obviously, there are exceptions, for example Halliburton and our own PP, whose early play exceeds their draft slot. I don't think Rui is one of those exceptions. Less sure about Deni. I would think Morey would be looking for a package with either more established players, or in the case of guys on rookie deals, then players the league would look at as defintively positive assets.
 

JM3

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It's not a huge haul, but especially if the Wizards are willing to make the 1sts unprotected, or throw in some swaps or something, I think it's at least competitive with what other teams are offering.

& they could rope in a 3rd team who is willing to give up a good player for a chance at some Wizards picks or if they're higher on Rui/Deni.

Rui has been ~fine & Deni has kinda sucked.

Montrezl is 28, so he shouldn't really be cooked. His per 36 last year was 21/10 on 62% shooting.

I don't think the Wizards have a lot to lose trying to see if getting Simmons makes Beal happy (unless Beal says 'no'), & if not building around Simmons as a likely back up plan.

Simmons has been much better when he's the guy for his team instead of a guy, & even if it doesn't work out, at least they would have tried.

It's a lot less damaging for a treading water team to YOLO on Simmons & have it not work out than it is for a contender to do the same.

Not sure if he would add DC to his list, but apparently Kuzma was happy to be going there?

Nowhere really makes perfect sense for Simmons, or the 76ers.
 

JM3

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I take that back...Harrell doesn't turn 28 until January. I'm not a huge fan, but he definitely fulfills a role, especially in the regular season.
 

JM3

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While I'm in the Ben Simmons to random wildcard teams mode...

What about the Magic?

Jalen Suggs/Jon Isaac/Terrence Ross/'25 Nuggets 1st for Simmons/Maxey.
 

nighthob

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It's not a huge haul, but especially if the Wizards are willing to make the 1sts unprotected, or throw in some swaps or something, I think it's at least competitive with what other teams are offering.
They owe a first to the Thunder, so any firsts are far future ones and thus not a good deal for Philly. Deni looks like a bench depth only player, so the value would be Hachimura, whose timeline doesn't fit Embiid's. I think he will be a top 50 player, but he's a ways off yet.

I assume Morey's order of preference in a return for Simmons goes something like: 1) Star 2) Good players on not bad deals, which fit the current team and/or could be moved in a later deal to acquire a star along with a few picks and 3) boat load of picks.
A Simmons deal is going to be tough as OKC and New Orleans control about one third of all #1 picks over the next seven years. CJ McCollum is probably the most realistic target, but not one that it looks like they'll accept. They screwed up choosing Simmons over Butler a couple of years ago and then Simmons over Harden last winter. Now they've held him too long and his value's deflated (mostly due to his performance profile vs his actual production). They almost have to hold on to him and pray that he shows up and plays in hopes of rebuilding value. But this also involves wasting another year of Embiid's career. Morey really screwed the pooch here.
 

JM3

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I was skimming their outgoing & thought they were all 2nds going out (why do they hate 2nds so much???).

Yeah, that puts a huge wrench in it. They could do unrestricted swaps every year lol.

Random unrelated '22 1st round stuff - the Clippers 1st to the Thunder is unprotected this year, so they better hope PG stays healthy or that could be a serious pick.
 

ManicCompression

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Why not Simmons for Siakam + a first (or whatever trimmings needed to make it work)? Challenge trade and I'm not sure it matches w/ Toronto's timeline, but Siakam and Embiid are tight and Siakam can replicate some of the defense, transition offense, and physicality of Simmons while offering shooting (though not good shooting). The contracts are identical except Simmons runs a year longer.

That Toronto front court of Simmons and Barnes would be defensively a terror and offensively a nightmare in the half court, but Simmons working with FVV would pretty fun to watch.
 

JM3

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Why not Simmons for Siakam + a first (or whatever trimmings needed to make it work)? Challenge trade and I'm not sure it matches w/ Toronto's timeline, but Siakam and Embiid are tight and Siakam can replicate some of the defense, transition offense, and physicality of Simmons while offering shooting (though not good shooting). The contracts are identical except Simmons runs a year longer.

That Toronto front court of Simmons and Barnes would be defensively a terror and offensively a nightmare in the half court, but Simmons working with FVV would pretty fun to watch.
I've already heard Raptors rumblings (the BR thing I saw was Siakam + '22 & '24 1sts & '25 swap, but seems Phillysided). I was just making up new ones lol.

My initial thought is that Barnes & Simmons would be an awful fit together unless/until Barnes becomes an adequate shooter.

Would be interesting, though.
 

JM3

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While I was going down some rabbit holes I came across a Nick Wright suggestion of Simmons for Kyrie, which he says is super unlikely/impossible in the real world, but would make a lot of sense for both teams, & I kind of agree in terms of pure basketball.
 

JM3

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Perusing the 2011-2012 NBA All-Stars on their 10th anniversary…

• 9 currently play for the Lakers or Nets
• 4 play for the other 28 teams combined
• 11 are retired or dead
This picture isn't completely accurate, but less morbid this way...

FB_IMG_1631191050453.jpg
 

JM3

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IMHO if the C's could somehow acquire Simmons at 50-75% the cost of Beal's perceived value, I would prefer Simmons.
Simmons would be a pretty good fit with the Jays. Idk if there's a world where the acquisition cost would be half of what it costs for Beal, though.
 

Tony C

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While I was going down some rabbit holes I came across a Nick Wright suggestion of Simmons for Kyrie, which he says is super unlikely/impossible in the real world, but would make a lot of sense for both teams, & I kind of agree in terms of pure basketball.
Boy, that is the first suggestion I have seen that really makes sense for both teams.
 

Jimbodandy

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Simmons is a very good player, but I'm not interested in a guy with no soul. He'll help us get the 2 seed and then melt in the playoffs. Fuck that.
 
Not really sure where to put this, but I thought this little addendum to the Last Dance about Luc Longley was pretty interesting if you have an hour to kill.

FWIW, I watched this the other night when I couldn't get to sleep, and I thought it was delightful. Not an addendum to The Last Dance as such - it's an Australian-made documentary - but it does fill in a notable gap in TLD (a gap addressed in this documentary), and with a level of detail that wouldn't have been possible in TLD itself. There's a surprising amount of MJ in this, along with contributions from Pippen and Kerr and Sam Smith, among others. Highly recommended.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Simmons would be a pretty good fit with the Jays. Idk if there's a world where the acquisition cost would be half of what it costs for Beal, though.
I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
 

Jimbodandy

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I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
A Jaylen for Simmons trade would kill this team for me, completely being honest here. Trading my favorite player for a guy with no heart would be the end.

For context, I haven't watched five minutes of Bruins hockey since Sinden traded Ray to Colorado.
 

ManicCompression

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I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
Isn't Simmons a downgrade on Jaylen at this point? I feel like a majority of GMS would prefer Jaylen over Simmons and I think he currently has more value around the league because he fits on more teams. If we have Beal in this hypothetical, I'm not sure what from a skills perspective Simmons is adding to the team.

KAT is another story - it's an interesting thought, but I don't think his D is Stevens approved.
 

sezwho

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A Jaylen for Simmons trade would kill this team for me, completely being honest here. Trading my favorite player for a guy with no heart would be the end.

For context, I haven't watched five minutes of Bruins hockey since Sinden traded Ray to Colorado.
Wow, I lack that level of discipline and would find my way back but would be very disappointed.

I think the Js can absolutely complement each other (whatever the max roster number of tremendously talented two way big wings is, it’s bigger than 2) but also because if we want it to matter to be a Celtic, then some amount of loyalty/commitment from the team in return has to be shown. Sure, if a Simmons situation develops do what you need to, but otherwise build around the exceptional young talent you’ve drafted and developed. It’s easier to engender commitment and loyalty when you show it.
 

Swedgin

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Isn't Simmons a downgrade on Jaylen at this point? I feel like a majority of GMS would prefer Jaylen over Simmons and I think he currently has more value around the league because he fits on more teams. If we have Beal in this hypothetical, I'm not sure what from a skills perspective Simmons is adding to the team.

KAT is another story - it's an interesting thought, but I don't think his D is Stevens approved.
The NBA-Draft subreddit recently did a sequential 2016 redraft. Basically a series of polls as to who would you take with each pick. After the poll closed for each pick, a new one opens with prior winner removed and a new guy added. Jaylen was hands down the number one pick. He had something like 3500 votes and the next closest was in the 500 range.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I can certainly see the case for Simmons being a better player today (among other things, RPM lands that way). But it's pretty hard to feel like Simmons has much upside left given his remarkably flat trajectory versus Jaylen's steadily upward one. It's also hard to imagine how you'd prefer Simmons in the NBA playoffs. So given those realities, I really don't think it is a close call---and a year ago I would have (and perhaps did) argue for Simmons.
 

Tony C

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i have to say, I don't go to RotoWorld for basketball analysis, but their comment on Deandre Jordan's Laker signing sort of sums it up:
DeAndre Jordan has officially signed with the Lakers.
The Lakers were forced to go out and spend roughly $5.2 million on two, mostly washed-up centers this summer because despite having nine years of NBA experience, Anthony Davis still doesn't understand what position he's supposed to play. For now, Marc Gasol remains with the team for another $2.7 million, but he's reportedly not a lock to make the regular-season roster. After all, DeMarcus Cousins is still available.
Kind of hard to argue with that. And, while Gasol has declined, he's not nearly as washed as Jordan. Weird focus.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Does LA win more than 45 games? I doubt it. Is that the most hilariously constructed roster of washed up superstars ever? I mean Jesus Christ they might win 75 games if it was 2009.
 

Euclis20

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Does LA win more than 45 games? I doubt it. Is that the most hilariously constructed roster of washed up superstars ever? I mean Jesus Christ they might win 75 games if it was 2009.
Yeah the Lakers over/under per the oddsmakers is 52.5. I think this team will be dominant during the regular season - adding westbrook allows lebron and davis to take plenty of rest days, and teams won't bother game-planning for their lack of range in the regular season. Like all Westbrook teams, their problem will emerge in the playoffs.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah the Lakers over/under per the oddsmakers is 52.5. I think this team will be dominant during the regular season - adding westbrook allows lebron and davis to take plenty of rest days, and teams won't bother game-planning for their lack of range in the regular season. Like all Westbrook teams, their problem will emerge in the playoffs.
This.

Westbrook adds regular season wins because he's an all time try hard (I mean that lovingly). And he keeps tread on Lebron's tires, which helps them in the playoffs.

I hate the fucking Lakers, but Russ makes sense in a lot of ways...basically until they meet Brooklyn in the finals.
 

lovegtm

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I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
I'd have to be really sure that Beal was coming to do Jaylen for Simmons, and even then I'm not sure. I do agree that Simmons' value is too low right now, and he slots into a Beal/Tatum team very well.
 

JakeRae

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I can certainly see the case for Simmons being a better player today (among other things, RPM lands that way). But it's pretty hard to feel like Simmons has much upside left given his remarkably flat trajectory versus Jaylen's steadily upward one. It's also hard to imagine how you'd prefer Simmons in the NBA playoffs. So given those realities, I really don't think it is a close call---and a year ago I would have (and perhaps did) argue for Simmons.
I don’t think it’s particularly close today, but I would not trade Jaylen for Simmons because Jaylen feels like a player on the verge of breaking through from having all the pieces of a star (to be clear, not a superstar) to actually being one. Jaylen has also always played up in the playoffs, whereas Simmons has played down. If you offered me that Simmons was going to actually commit to learning to fix the flaws in his game, I might consider the trade because a version of Simmons that does the work Rondo (as an example) did to learn to shoot is a borderline MVP candidate in his prime. But there is literally no indication Simmons has any interest in admitting and working on the weaknesses in his game. Absent that, I’m not interested unless it’s at a discount and Jaylen isn’t close to a discount.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Yeah the Lakers over/under per the oddsmakers is 52.5. I think this team will be dominant during the regular season - adding westbrook allows lebron and davis to take plenty of rest days, and teams won't bother game-planning for their lack of range in the regular season. Like all Westbrook teams, their problem will emerge in the playoffs.
I have a very hard time believing that team stays healthy throughout the regular season, even with all the load management.