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The Butler Did It

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Minneapolis Millers

    Minneapolis Millers Member SoSH Member

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    Butler tends to be a ball stopper, especially late in games, which most players wouldn't appreciate. It was maddening watching them devolve into hero ball in close games, with Butler playing the purported hero, and KAT getting repeatedly ignored.
     
  2. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    The point remains that if you’re the Heat there aren’t many ways forward. They’ve dealt away their picks, they’re not loaded with young developing players, and they don’t have any cap space coming up. So, yes, they’re going to be aggressive in the Butler chase because blowing it up and starting over isn’t really an option for them.

    And, really, if you’re the T’wolves and want to drive up the bidding, there are better teams to cite than the Heat (like the Lakers for one). So the story is almost certainly true.
     
  3. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    lakers have absolutely no salary to trade until well into the season though
     
  4. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    You can construct these packages, but it's all speculation.

    Right?
     
  5. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Right, but if Minnesota were responsible for the rumor, why choose a team with very little talent to offer to drive up the price? Why wouldn’t you say “Brooklyn is targeting Butler aggressively” rather than Miami?
     
  6. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    That was my point.
     
  7. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I know.

    My point was speculate is what we do on these boards. Otherwise, why are we here? It's like if someone offers an opinion, and you respond that's just your opinion! Yeah, no kidding.

    SPECULATION ALERT If I were San Antonio I'd offer Derozan for him. Minny would have to put a salary like Tyus Jones in to match up.
     
  8. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    Sure, it's what we do, and some of the proposals here make more basketball and financial sense than the rumors I've been seeing on the web. But until a reputable source (e.g. Woj) chimes in, it's all just clickbait..
     
  9. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    been nice posting with you, Big John, but I guess we're just not generating content that's up to your standards. Fair winds and following seas.
     
  10. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    It was literally Woj that tweeted the rumor you dismissed.
     
  11. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    What I saw from Woj is that Glen Taylor and Dan Gilbert would be meeting privately at the NBA Board of Governors meeting, presumably to discuss Butler. If Woj has reported any specific trade proposals, I missed them.
     
  12. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    He didn't report specific trade proposals, he literally tweeted that Miami was pursuing Butler aggressively which you dismissed as Minnesota attempting to drive up the price. Which is absurd as Miami literally can't offer more than pennies on the dollar for Butler as they can't supply the T'wolves with anything but bench depth and cap relief.
     
  13. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    I understand your point about the Heat: they would be a lousy choice if someone wanted to drive up the price.

    However, I could see Riley trying to send Whiteside to a third team, which in turn would send more suitable assets to the Wolves.
     
  14. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    The can offer a home for Dieng's contract with Tyler Johnson's expiring though. This adds a ton of value to a deal. Miami is the favorite to land him from my seat.
     
  15. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Right, they can unload Butler on Miami for cap relief. I was disputing BJ's claim that it was a fake rumor designed to drive up the price. If you were trying to incite a bidding war, why would you choose a team that can only offer you cap relief? You would choose someone like Brooklyn for your fake rumour. Because Tyler Johnson, Jason Richardson, and Justise Winslow are all pretty mediocre players, and that's about the pick of the rotten litter.
     
  16. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    I'd like to see BRK really go for this. They can offer up something like Hollis-Jefferson, Russell, and Carroll for Butler and filler
     
  17. sox311

    sox311 Member SoSH Member

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    Goodness, Thibs was still trying to convince him yesterday, to no avail...

    Worst case scenario for us, (besides Toronto or Washington) is if Vlade somehow gets Thibs to take a Harry Giles, Skal, and Z-Bo or Iman to match salaries and salary match to get Jimmy.

    The Kings with Jimmy would still stink this year, but it would bump them a good amount above some other teams like the Hawks.
     
  18. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Sacramento isn't looking to acquire Butler. They are looking to utilize their cap space and/or any of their 3 expiring contracts (Zach, Shumpert and Koufos) to absorb a bad contract as a 3rd team to help facilitate a deal while receiving draft equity and/or young talent. The Kings being involved hurts Miami a ton as the Wolves now have another out to dump Dieng's contract without Riley holding them hostage.
     
  19. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    I agree with this, if the Kings are willing to pony up expiring deals to help someone else facilitate a trade the Heat are sunk, because salary relief is about all they have to offer.

    I don't think that Minnesota will have much interest in Russell, and Brooklyn would probably prefer to trade Crabbe even if the cost is a top five protected #1. Because that would put them in a position to sign another max deal with plenty left over for help (and within spitting distance of two max deals).
     
  20. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    I'm surprised that we haven't heard more from the Sixers in the Butler sweepstakes.
     
  21. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    A combo with 2 of the 4: Covington, Fultz, Bayless, or Chandler works. But I'm not sure what Minnesota would be asking for.
     
  22. Sprowl

    Sprowl Emile de Becque Dope

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    Split off from the 2018 NBA offseason thread.
     
  23. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I was hoping for "Because he's my Butler"
     
  24. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Butler's camp, in conjunction with Pat Riley I'm sure, announce for first time publicly that Miami is Butler's preferred destination.

    Tennis match here. Riley presses hard, word leaked that Kings want be involved as 3rd team to take on Dieng's contract, Riles/Butler with the forehand smash of a statement that could cool others interest if Butler is viewed as a rental. He has to be a Heat by next week I'd imagine. All sides motivated to move fast on this.
     
  25. DavidTai

    DavidTai Member SoSH Member

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    If that also devalues Philadelphia's Miami pick, I'm all for it. I'd rather he be a Clipper.
     
  26. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    So much for the list of 3 teams. If you are a Celtics fan, you can't mind him going to Miami too much.
     
  27. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Yeah, here's the tweet:

     
  28. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    The Miami Heat cancelled their team practice tonight. Sounds like a large multi-player and maybe multi-team deal could be announced tonight or tomorrow.
     
  29. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    While we wait for Friday, does anyone want to take a stab at what Miami will send to the Wolves for Jimmy?

    I'll take a shot:
    Miami: Winslow, Whiteside, JRichardson
    Minn: Butler, Dieng

    Why does Minny do it? Thiebs get 3 defense first players. Unloads Dieng's "bad" 3yr contract for 2yrs of Whiteside. Not many choices.

    Why does Miami do it? Miami gets a star to team up with Goran, unloads Hassan, opens up a starting spot for Bam.
     
  30. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    The trade machine has that as +1 win for Miami and -1 for Minnesota.
     
  31. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    So do we finally stop treating that Miami pick that Philly has like it's the 2016-18 Brooklyn picks rolled into one?
     
  32. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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  33. Buster Olney the Lonely

    Buster Olney the Lonely Member SoSH Member

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    If you’re a coach who wants to get fired, making your starters play 36, 36, 35, 33 and 33 minutes per game is probably a good start.
     
  34. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    I don't understand why playing your starters heavy minutes would get one fired but Thibs is the President of Basketball Operations not only the coach where he must answer to anyone other than the owner. He's a stubborn man for sure so I wouldn't put it past him to not be on the same working page as Taylor today.
     
  35. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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  36. HowBoutDemSox

    HowBoutDemSox Member SoSH Member

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    There’s setting the price high, and then there’s getting high, and it sounds like the Wolves are squarely in the latter territory:

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...mors-twolves-asked-for-ben-simmons-from-76ers
     
  37. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    I guess we can see why now.
    Simmons for one year of butler is... Something.

    I have always thought the heat will do it. They have a shot at keeping him and their team is locked into a capped and not good team. Even if he leaves they might not be worse for it!
    It likely hurts the 2021 pick of course and that is annoying but it's not like there is no risk he leaves after a year and they are no better
     
  38. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Asking for Simmons is silly. So is taking Caris Lavert and Josh Richardson off the table. At some point they will land in the middle with someone, presumably.

    I do like the idea of Lowry for Butler.
     
  39. Swedgin

    Swedgin Member SoSH Member

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    Who reported that Lavert and/or Richardson were off the table?

    Negotiating is part of my job, if someone in my line of work did the equivalent of asking for Simmons I would conclude they were not serious about getting a deal done and not waste my time. If they said were not willing to part with Richardson, but we can talk about Bam, Winslow etc. along with the taking on Deing, that's a basis to continue discussions even if Richardson is a deal breaker for me, because we are at least in the realm of possibility. If Thibs is really demanding Simmons level packages and I was his representative I would be starting to get concerned about the definition of "for cause" in his contract.
     
  40. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    I don’t know how to paste a link on my phone, but if you google Caris Lavert and click the news section, reports that he won’t be used as a trade chip are among the top results. I can’t find a similar link for Richardson, I may have just seen it somewhere as speculation.

    The Simmons ask is sillier, but telling the Wolves that Lavert is off limits is petty close to saying “we’re not going to give you anything of real value” (assuming that they are done dealing unprotected first round picks).

    Most likely, everyone involved is in the silly stage of negotiation, and things will normalize soon, unless 6 different teams all think they are locks to sign him as a free agent.
     
  41. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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  42. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    Who knows what could even interest Minnesota but this would be fun.

    Guess it would have to be something like Gordon/Chriss/fodder?
     
  43. bsj

    bsj Renegade Crazed Genius SoSH Member

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    Go west young man. Preferably somewhere maxed and with a PG
     
  44. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

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    Philly could easily do better without touching Simmons or Fultz. Plus they're in the EC.

    Miami seems to have the inside edge but Philly would make the most sense.
     
  45. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    If I'm Thibs and aren't thrilled with anyone on the Sixers roster outside of Embiid and Simmons then receive a call from Philly asking what it would take...….I'm going to say Embiid or Simmons. Why would I even inquire about the other pieces I have no interest in acquiring?

    This is how negotiations work. You know that there isn't a match with any package not including them so show your interest and maybe there is a one in a million shot that they counter with moving Simmons for a package that includes Wiggins. This is common and why 99.9% of trade discussions never get anywhere...….until one does.
     
  46. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Can't rip someone off if you don't try. Bad trades are made all the time.
     
  47. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    We have to decide who the teams are negotiating with. I'd guess that if it's Thibs/Layden they are looking for an established starter and another rotation player...….if they are going through Taylor adding a draft pick while taking on Dieng's contract would carry much greater weight. Welcome to the Dysfunctionalwolves.
     
  48. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    I'm hoping two wildly different "agreed in principle" trades are announced at the same time.
     
  49. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    I mean Covington/Saric is a pretty craptastic return, so there's no harm in asking for better.
     
  50. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Is it? That plus a draft pick or two is what I would think they would be looking for.
     

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