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The Butler Did It

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,095
    also Porzingas, Paul, Gobert and Hayward??? health matters in a long regular and playoff season

    Mitchell, Wall come on
     
  2. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,744
    Yea, I may have overstated it, but I can't see Butler being a top 10 player, mostly because of how much time he spends not playing basketball with all his inuries.

    I think he slots in with a bunch of guys in the 10-20 range after Lebron, Curry, Durant, Harden, Davis, Paul, Kawhi, Giannis, Westbrook, Embiid, and probably a few others
     
  3. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,889
    Butler's not exactly a role model of health either but yeah, that list has quite a few reaches.
     
  4. TiredParent

    TiredParent lurker

    Messages:
    34
    Is he a clear, no doubt, top 20 player? Even ignoring contract and future production, who would each team refuse to trade for Butler straight up?

    These teams probably have no players that are currently equal or better than Butler - Clippers, Suns, Kings, Hawks, Heat, Magic, Mavs, Memphis, Spurs, Nets,Bulls, Cavs, Pistons , Knicks (though Kristaps if he wasn't hurt)

    These players might be traded straight up(one year, no consideration of fit, contract or future):
    Boston - Tatum,
    TO - Lowry
    Nuggets - Murray
    Jazz - Mitchell
    Wizards - Wall

    These players would likely not be traded straight up for Butler:
    Boston - Kyrie,Horford
    76ers - Embiid,Simmons
    Raptors - Kawhi
    Pacers - Oladipo
    Bucks - Giannis
    Nuggets - Jokic
    Minn - KAT
    OKC - Westbrook, George
    Portland - Lillard
    Jazz - Gobert
    Warriors - Curry, Durant, Klay, Draymond
    Lakers - LeBron
    Hornets - Kemba
    Rockets - Paul, Harden
    Pelicans - Jrue, Davis

    Of course, that is a subjective list, but even if you remove Kyrie or Kemba or Jrue, that would still be 20 players.
     
  5. ManicCompression

    ManicCompression lurker

    Messages:
    88
    These are two different parameters, though. One guy can be a better player but less valuable because of age/contract. If you had to win one game right now, and the choice was between butler and Gobert, you take butler every time. The thing about butler against a lot of that list is that he’s older and about to get paid too much money on his decline.

    Butler is a really good, top 15 or so player, but I don’t think he’s a good fit with Embiid and Simmons. It’s going to be really interesting to see how they juggle three guys who can’t really play off ball all that well. It’s a ton of talent and it feels like the whole could be less than the parts.
     
  6. JakeRae

    JakeRae Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,266
    The list of players I would definitely not trade for Butler based on expected performance (and ignoring contract) in the next 3 years (somewhat arbitrary cutoff that avoids tangling with difficult questions like would I trade Tatum for Butler - probably not but it's not because Butler isn't better now and reasonably likely to continue to be better in the short term):

    LeBron
    Davis
    Durant
    Curry
    Harden
    Kawhi
    Jokic
    Giannis

    Guys I'm not sure about but would consider:

    Embiid
    Paul (because age)
    Draymond
    Gobert
    Lillard
    Kyrie

    Guys I think you can make a reasonable argument for but don't make the above lists for me:

    Westbrook (I really don't like his game)
    George
    Horford
    Oladipo
     
  7. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

    Messages:
    16,662
    After having a weekend to look at the new Sixers I expect Chandler to be in the starting lineup and as your 'stretch 4" offensively. This year and his reputation from early in his career aside, Chandler has been a fairly durable player these past 3 seasons. Some are talking like the Sixers are running Chandler Parsons out there which is simply not the case.

    With the lack of frontcourt depth now along with lack of second unit scoring punch...…..is Carmelo a viable option if he agreed to a second unit role that is currently Amir and Muscala? Move Redick into Fultz' starting spot and run the latter with Melo on a second unit where he can either get into the paint off the dribble or get the ball to Melo in iso.
     
    #307 HomeRunBaker, Nov 12, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  8. sezwho

    sezwho Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    395
    That is pretty much my list, but for a shorter period like 1-2 years...

    Kyrie's offense (particularly in crunch time) is so exceptional that I'm not sure how to rank him against Butler's 2-way strength, but its quite possible the Sixers just added the best player on either team.
     

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