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Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by HomeRunBaker, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Smart has very little value to the Pelicans, relative to the value he's got to us. He may not be on a fully market-rate deal but he has not much team control left, his skills don't sell tickets, he costs 8 figures as it is, and he'd be immensely frustrated playing there, when not surrounded by the kind of shooting talent that lets him thrive as an agent of chaos.

    There are lots of things I think we'll see be included in a deal before Smart gets thrown in.
     
  2. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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  3. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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  4. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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  5. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Wonder if the best option is to route Horford to a 3rd team. The math works quite easily for a Horford + Tatum + pick(s) for AD + Solomon Hill
     
  6. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    They can't, Horford's a pending free agent.
     
  7. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    I know you are convinced he is opting out of the 30 million. I am unsure if that is a for sure
     
  8. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    Going to be crazy when Danny Ainge trades Markelle Fultz (Tatum/Sac) + Yabu + Jabari Bird (MLE) for Anthony Davis.
     
  9. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Are the Celtics still expected to sign someone to a 2 year MLE deal to help with salaries in the event Horford does, in fact, opt out?
     
  10. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Can he pick up the option with the intent to trade him to a team that will rip up the deal and sign him to a longer contract?
     
  11. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Al would have to pick up the option by sometime in late June. So Boston would know one way or the other prior to any Davis deal.
     
  12. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    In any event, I'm sure Ainge will have multiple packages worked out depending on some of these currently-unknown variables.
     
  13. sime

    sime lurker

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    It was Tim MacMahon who made this claim, and for the headline to say Tatum ‘may not mind’ is very misleading as Tatum didn’t say anything at all. MacMahon didn’t even say “sources” told him. He says “It’s gossip, but the gossip is Jayson Tatum wouldn’t mind if he’s shipped to New Orleans.”

    Okay then.

    Sure it could be true but this seems like just another media generated clickbait story.
     
  14. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    Yes, I heard the podcast and it was (an irresponsible) throwaway line. The NBA is like permanent Deflategate - Way too much of the talk is off the court nonsense, based largely on garbage speculation and hearsay.
     
  15. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    I think this is one of those things that's situationally true. It's very likely true to the extent that Boston is a team that's going to bid on Davis and they actually have the prime asset (Tatum) in possession. The Knicks and Clippers are going to get in on the bidding, but neither one of them has the #1 pick, and there's no guarantee that whoever does get it will have any interest in trading it for Davis (the Cadavaliers, for example).

    And I can see why the Pelicans are spreading that rumor, you don't want the other suitors, if they land Williamson, getting the idea that that's enough. They want the Knicks or Clippers pushing everything into the middle of the table if the ping pong balls bounce their way.

    But in a vacuum, I suspect that Williamson has more value to Demps than Tatum because the extra two years give him a margin of error in rebuilding. If he takes Tatum he has four years to build a winner before ending right back here. And because his centerpiece will be a third year player, people will expect results on day one.

    And the reality is that Tatum really is good enough to carry the Pelicans into the late lottery territory, meaning that the Pels' next shot at the high lottery will come as Tatum is signing his rookie extension (the Memphis pick assuming they get it). Then he has two years. Williamson at least gives him six years to build around, and with the promise that New Orleans will be adding high lottery talent to him in 2020.

    So if New York lands #1 I expect Davis to end up there for Williamson, Knox, and DSJ. Boston could outbid that by emptying the cupboard (Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Sacramento #1, Memphis #1), but I'm not sure I'd make that bet. If he leaves you're more or less screwed.
     
    #1415 nighthob, Feb 13, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  16. NomarsFool

    NomarsFool Member SoSH Member

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    The beauty of trading for Williamson is that he has no NBA experience. People can look at him and project him to be the next Lebron James if they want. I'm a Tatum fan, but I don't see him as a future MVP - I see him as a future All Star. Sometimes hype and hope is more valuable than actual impact (which I think at least in the near term, Tatum will have more impact than Zion)
     
  17. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah Tatum will almost certainly provide more wins value than Zion over the next two years, and that could be a bug instead of a feature.

    Also Zion may put more butts in seats. Maybe not on day one, but I think that he might later. Squint hard at Tatum, and you see Kevin Durant. Squint at Zion, and you see the love child of Vince Carter and Shaq. Could be a bigtime fucking draw.
     
  18. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  19. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    That’s my feeling. Barring an upset lottery win the Pelicans are going to be drafting in the NBA starter part of the draft, so I suspect that they’re praying that New York wins the Zion Sweepstakes as that would give them a bunch of players that they control for five or six years and still have a shot at the high lottery in 2020.

    Now if the Pelicans win the Zion sweepstakes things get really interesting. Especially if New York also lands a top 3 pick. In that case do you bet on two guys that you control for six years or go for the maximum short term help (Tatum).

    All in all I find myself hoping that when Jackie Mac said that Durant and Kyrie had talked about teaming up in Boston that she was right. Because Durant Chris Pauling his way to Boston in four months would relieve me no matter what happens next.
     
  20. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Horford opts in. Durant Chris Paul’s his way to Boston. We trade Horford/Brown for Durant/filler. Then, Tatum/Rozier/MLE/Filler/Picks go to New Orleans for AD.

    AD
    Durant
    Hayward
    Smart
    Irving

    Go big or go home, Danny.
     
  21. Lazy vs Crazy

    Lazy vs Crazy Member SoSH Member

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    So I did some thinking on the matching salary thing. Would it be possible to sign someone to that MLE deal, with a non-guaranteed contract for next year with a guarantee date of like 7/5? That way the extra 6 mil or whatever is essentially expiring, which would be better for the Pels.

    Not sure if that's legal though.
     
  22. JohnnyTheBone

    JohnnyTheBone Member SoSH Member

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    They kept doing it with Amir Johnson, so I don't see why they couldn't. Good thought!
     
  23. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    I assume you mean the Celtics using the MLE this season to sign a player to a 2-year deal. The only way to do this would be to make next season (2019-20) an option year. The problem is that options must be exercised by 6/29, so there is no way to legally extend the date to 7/5 under the CBA.

    Also, a player signed to an MLE deal during the offseason cannot be traded for 3 months; same as the rule that applies to all free agents.
     
  24. HowBoutDemSox

    HowBoutDemSox Member SoSH Member

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  25. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Non guaranteed deals no longer carry full weight in trade. For salary matching purposes only the guaranteed salary counts. But Boston is looking to make someone a two year MLE offer in order to acquire ballast for a Davis deal.
     
  26. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Sean Devenny of the Sporting News wrote an article on the backlash of what happened leading up to and on trade deadline day. According to Devenny, the Celtics brass believe it was Rich Paul who planted the story about Kyrie Irving having interest in New York in order to scare the Pelicans into thinking the Celtics would back off of trading for AD if Irving might leave. They called the tactic "cheap and underhanded." They also think that Rich Paul trotted AD's father out to comment that AD would not want to go to Boston.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/...rant-anthony-davis/10cfln1ml28qf1abmalht1zhdk
     
  27. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    "As angry as Durant may be, it can’t match the rage coming out of LA these days. That’s because the Lakers have been privately complaining that the Pelicans were negotiating disingenuously with them in the Davis talks, and that Pelicans GM Dell Demps was using the situation to strike back at LA for tampering with Davis throughout the season."

    The Lakers' entitlement is unbelievable. They definitely thought they had some sort of right to acquire AD. If nothing else, you'd think they'd have the emotional/business intelligence to understand how much their blatant tampering pisses other teams off.

    Danny is a useful contrast: everyone has known for years that he wants AD, but he still has managed to maintain a good working relationship with the Pels through that time. He's also collected assets they actually want, rather than trying to strong-arm them into taking a pupu platter.
     
  28. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    "How dare they strike back at our tampering!"

    HAHA. Fuck you Lakers.
     
  29. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

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    On some level, I am rooting for the Clippers to sweep in and take Davis from under the Lakers' noses
     
  30. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    It's an interesting situation because their goal is still to work well enough with this person they are clearly pissed at, enough to get his client to play the rest of his career in Boston.

    Wonder how many future clients Paul/Klutch have lost because of how this played out. The ultimate power move for Danny will be if he can trade for AD and get him to fire Paul before the next extension. As unlikely as that is, it would be so, so sweet to watch.
     
  31. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    I was thinking the same thing when I wrote that response the other night, at some level I would love to see the Clippers win the Zion Sweepstakes and trade for Davis and sign another A level free agent, while the Lakers run dry. It would be absolutely hilarious.
     
  32. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    AD's shoulder injury tonight. Fake or real?
     
  33. Bad Penny

    Bad Penny Member SoSH Member

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    I cannot answer your question but Gentry is hot under the collar.

    I don't love the optics of Kyrie and AD being injured in or not playing in their teams last game(s) before the All-Star break and then playing in said game. I am of course speculating that they both participate.

    http://www.nba.com/article/2019/02/14/anthony-davis-exits-shoulder-injury
     
  34. Imbricus

    Imbricus Member SoSH Member

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    This is the kind of stuff that makes me really nervous about trading for Davis. There have been historically a lot of minor injuries with that guy. Just look at this story:
    He's the MVP of the MRI machine.

    Edit: There is a suggestion in this short piece that the Pelicans training staff may be partly to blame, but I doubt that's more than a small part of it. He's just a guy who has trouble staying on the court. And if he has that long injury history at the young age of 25, I can't imagine it's going to get better in his late twenties/thirties.
     
    #1434 Imbricus, Feb 15, 2019 at 5:11 AM
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019 at 5:17 AM
  35. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Pretty extreme reaction here to a guy taking a couple of days off because he got a bruise.
     
  36. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Meh, AD isn't exactly Mr. Durability. I probably want him, all things considered, but his injury history is a real thing, and worthy of discussion.
     
  37. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

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    25 injuries in five years speaks for itself though, he does seem like Mr. Glass to some degree.
     
  38. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not saying that he doesn't have an injury history. Just pointing out that he has a bruise. It's not indicative of anything.
     
  39. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Brad wants Kyrie to play if he's cleared.
     
  40. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

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    So do I. He needs to be tampering as much as possible
     
  41. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    I refer you to my Post #633:

    Unless you're calling Durant and Westbrook "Mr. Glass" as well, there's not a meaningful difference between them and Davis in terms of ability to stay on the court.
     
  42. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    The Pelicans fired Dell Demps. What does this change when it comes to the Davis trade this summer?
     
  43. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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  44. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Unless they're hiring a GM that won't take the best offer, I'm not sure.

    Unless they hire AD's agent for the job.
     
  45. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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  46. NomarsFool

    NomarsFool Member SoSH Member

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    Wow. Not expecting that.
     
  47. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    31,705
  48. Jeff Van GULLY

    Jeff Van GULLY Member SoSH Member

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    Then you haven't been paying attention. He was a goner once the trade was demanded. Pels did it a bit quicker then I thought they would
     
  49. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    This is what they should be doing. Demps wasn't their long term answer at GM, with some speculation that the Saints GM was having heavy influence on the AD final call already. If it is true that Demps wasn't the long term GM, he shouldn't be responsible for making the biggest decision the franchise will have over the next 5+ years.

    None of this concerns me with regards to Davis's odds of ending up on the Celtics. Anyone with a pair of eyes to watch games and an ability to look at statistics would tell Tatum is the prize. The only real "fear" for the Celtics perspective is the same one that existed yesterday - that they want Zion over Tatum AND a team that gets the #1 pick would prefer to cash in their assets for near term success.
     
  50. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    The vibe set by Benson via Woj seems to indicate that she is looking to get the most out of the Davis trade. Let's hope so.
     

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