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Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by HomeRunBaker, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    At this moment, AD is a do-it-all, certainly top 5 player and maybe better than that, in the entire NBA. JT is the second guy on his team.

    Teams aren't doubling JT yet. JT is okay on the boards but imagine if they had AD. AD is a rim protector. AD is basically Al + Baynes together. Does that help?
     
  2. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I had the same thought which is why I also asked about option 1 and "only" winning the East.

    Make him stay hungry, but knows he is in the best spot to break through.

    Didnt know that Davis wouldnt be eligible for the Supermax. Kinda sucks as it will be a big piece of Celts leverage that they wont have.
    Al coming back would be nice and as a 6th man he would be a real weapon all while keeping the miles down during the season.

    You make a good point about Brown, and maybe Ainge can work some magic and move him for a lesser player (and contract) that makes the sum of the Kyrie, Davis, Hayward parts better.
     
  3. HowBoutDemSox

    HowBoutDemSox Member SoSH Member

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    Wouldn’t he have been a restricted free agent if they had held on to him for the remainder of his rookie deal?
     
  4. Bleedred

    Bleedred Member SoSH Member

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    You may be right. Just quickly reading some excerpts from around that time, OKC offered Harden pretty good money and Harden claimed he wasn't given a lot of time to consider the offer.
     
  5. Carmine Hose

    Carmine Hose Member SoSH Member

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    The wildcards in all this will be settled in a little over 3 months. Draft lottery night is May 14th. At that point, the Clippers pick will either be in or out (most likely unusable after the Harris trade). Memphis is probably top-8, so that's likely out. It comes down to the Sacto pick. Currently just in the lottery, if it can rise to #2 or #3, then we have some ammo to avoid trading Tatum. If it stays where it is, or the nightmare scenario happens where it goes #1 and Philly keeps it - and we get another 20s pick - then Tatum is a goner.

    Also, reading Stein's tweets, he is saying that Davis will not sign a long term extension with Boston, but also says he won't sign an extension with anyone and go to FA, just like Kyrie is doing because it makes no financial sense to sign before July 1. Captain Obvious moment.

    AD, if he's with the Celtics, will have to decide to turn down an extra year on an extension and $40+ million, to move to the Lakers with a 36 year old LeBron, or say the Knicks with a 32-year old Durant.
     
  6. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Short and simple version: offensive basketball is all about gravity off the ball, and advantage matchups on the ball. AD is a massive positive in both respects, and that has cascading effects through the rest of the offense.
     
  7. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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  8. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

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    Just out of curiosity, if AD goes elsewhere, who do you think the next best fit would be for them that would potentially be available for a Tatum-centered deal? In other words who do you think Plan B is?
     
  9. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    He was very clear at the time that he wanted a max contract extension and OKC never even got close to that in their various offers. Harden got traded because ownership was cheap; there is nothing more to the story.
     
  10. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Tatum is plan B. Doubtful that there's anyone else that Danny would trade him for, but definitely that guy or two (if he exists) isn't available.
     
  11. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit

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    Davis: "I want to be traded!"

    Pelicans: "You sure?"

    Davis: "Yeah, fuck you!"

    Pelicans: "Um, alright."

    Davis: "And make it to the Lakers!"

    Pelicans: "Nah."

    Davis: "Yeah! Fuck you!"

    Pelicans: "Well, maybe the Lakers, but not until after the season. We'll get better offers then. That also means you lose the chance to sign a super-max and may end up somewhere other than the Lakers."

    Davis: "Oh, uh...if you don't send me to the Lakers, I want to play out the rest of my contract...has nothing to do with the SuperMax or anything..."

    Pelicans: "Hey Anthony? Fuck you."
     
  12. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    It is pretty wild to realize how big a difference these two hours will be for the Celtics organization over the next 10 years. Feels like we're up 15 points with 5 min left in the 4th at the moment. Just need to wind the clock down for victory.

    This is something we've speculated about for years, but now it's finally coming to fruition. Just amazing to take a step back and process it.
     
  13. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    It better not turn out like Game 7 in 2010
     
  14. RoyHobbs

    RoyHobbs Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks guys. I can visualize things a bit better. Let me ask -- is there a scenario where a(n improved, matured, more polished) Tatum brings a dimension to the C's game that would be just as effective as, or effective in a different but still significant way from, what Davis could bring?
     
  15. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

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    Think about it this way. Zach Lowe has said that Anthony Davis is the most impactful player available in a trade since Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in 1975. He's a generational talent in his absolute prime. Those guys simply aren't ever available. It's Shaq to the Lakers in 1996 or Lebron to the Heat in 2010 as historical comps.

    AD is an elite defender, playmaker, finisher and rebounder. You can build any offensive or defensive system you want around him. Tatum is a good talent, probably even a multi-time All-Star by the time his career is over, but you can't compare him to a guy who's going to be an inner-circle Hall of Famer provided he stays healthy.
     
    #1315 cheech13, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  16. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    The top echelon of NBA talent is represented by Durant, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, Playoff LeBron, and arguably (and becoming less arguably by the day), Giannis. Anthony Davis is in that same echelon.

    There is another tier of 20-25 players that are in the second tier of "great but not transcendental". Kyrie is solidly in that tier (no matter what his detractors say), as are guys like Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Embiid, Westbrook, KAT, Jokic, and obviously quite a few others. Tatum's current trajectory means he could very well join that second tier in the next 2-3 years. That's an extremely valuable player, one that could easily be a crucial building block for a contending team. But that's still a projection. Which means that he's absolutely the type of player you give up to get Davis. Unless, of course, you determine there is little chance to keep Davis beyond the 1 year rental period.
     
  17. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH



    Anthony Davis’ agent Rich Paul tells me Davis is not being traded today
     
  18. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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  19. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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  20. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Eat shit, LeKlutch Sports!
     
  21. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Yes there is a scenario.

    If you watch the games, you will know that multiple times a game, JT will stop the ball and go through some, most, or all of his shake and bake moves and then launch a 15-20 footer. (If you don't watch the games, you can simply read the game threads and find where the word "Kobe" comes up.)

    Without doing any research, my guess is he hits about 1-3 of them. If he started hitting, say, 2-3 of them, he could be a top 10 player in the NBA. That would be pretty good.

    And frankly, that's exactly why NO has him in laser sights.

    edit: to put some color on this. Where the shot > 10' but inside the 3P line, JT is 2-7 when the defender is 0-2' away; 35-91 when the defender is 2-4' away; and 35-107 when the defender is 4-6' away. That's 35.1%. Just for ease of reference, if he made one more of these shots a game, he'd be up to 60% (which is very high admittedly) but he'd also take more of them. Imagine what his potential would be then.
     
  22. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    ^ you act like he won't adjust and get that Kobe-ism stench off of him.
     
  23. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Here to celebrate the Lakers' public pantsing.
     
  24. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    So what do the Lakers do to improve their position by summer? What kind of shenanigans can the Klakers pull next time to put their thumb on the scale? And where can they turn to post-AD. This isn’t the team Lebron and Magic envisioned running with.
     
  25. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    Trading Bird was huge as it allows the Celtics to sign someone with the MLE to include in the Davis trade. Allows them to keep Smart and/or Baynes I'd think.
     
  26. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    They can win the lottery.
     
  27. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    This is going to be fascinating to watch. They almost surely won't be getting AD. Maybe they peel off a Kemba Walker type in FA and trade Lonzo for something half decent. Barring something unforeseen, I think LeBron's LA tenure could be a hilarious failure.
     
  28. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    It is happening.
     
  29. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    The salt mines have been replenished.
     
  30. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    I resign as head C of the NOP
    - A.D.
     
  31. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Agents/Lebron/Klutch lost this one? Lakers Exceptionalism is a myth? Incontheivable.
     
  32. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Any confirmation whether NOP is going to sit AD for the rest of the season?
     
  33. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Zarren, trolly as fuck:

     
  34. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    AD has threatened to sue, so likely not.
     
  35. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    Why hasn't Chandler Parsons sued? He wants to play too. And the difference is, the the team told Parsons he was not part of its future. AD is the one who told the Pelicans that he didn't want to be part of their future. Why should the Pels play Davis when what they want to do now is lose as much as possible, not to mention risking injury to their most valuable asset?

    Good luck with that suit, Anthony. It's just Klutch B.S.
     
    #1335 Big John, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  36. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Sue whom? NOP? That's pretty laughable.

    NOP may decide to let him play (or may not) but a threatened lawsuit isn't going make their decision.

    IIRC from many many moons ago, there's a line of entertainment law cases that basically came to the conclusion that it's impossible to force talent to perform. I would love to see what would happen if AD sued to try to be able to perform.
     
  37. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    “Coaches decision” seems pretty easy.
     
  38. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    Adam Silver can put a stop to NO sitting a healthy player pretty easily if he wants.
     
  39. NomarsFool

    NomarsFool Member SoSH Member

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    NBA contract law is so confusing for fans to be able to follow. So, is it the case that it makes no financial sense for AD to sign a contract extension with any team that were to trade for him on July 1?

    Second question, assuming AD is traded to someone after July 1, what advantage does that team have over others that would like to sign him as a free agent in 2020? They have his Bird rights, but what does that mean, exactly, vs. what some other team could offer him?
     
  40. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    Yes, but he's never done it before. Why hasn't he forced the Grizz to play Parsons? And why should the league's owners support such a move? Silver works for them.
     
  41. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    Yup, a lot of owners would like to see AD made an example of for doing this sort of hamfisted midseason power play.
     
  42. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    this is correct

    Assuming the current cap projection is correct,

    the team with his Bird rights can offer him 5/197
    if he leaves, a new team can offer him 4/146

    most of the difference is in the extra year though. It's about a 7.5M difference over the first 4 years.
     
  43. CreedBratton

    CreedBratton Member SoSH Member

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    After considering the possibility of shutting down All-NBA center Anthony Davis, the New Orleans Pelicans plan to allow Davis back into the lineup for the rest of the season, league sources tell ESPN.
     
  44. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

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    I actually expect AD to play, but it will not be fun at home games... or wouldn’t be fun if anyone showed up and cared.
     
  45. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    He’s a union member subject to a CBA with a disciplinary structure and a grievance procedure. The notion that suit to enforce a personal services contract generally isn’t subject to an award of specific performance isn’t really at play here, especially because monetary damages are allowable in that context.

    I haven’t gone through the CBA with a fine-toothed comb, but I’d start by arguing that Davis was being disciplined outside of the league’s disciplinary structure. I don’t know off the top of my head whether the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing applies to employment relationships in a CBA context, but if it does, that’s another avenue.

    I’m a little curious as to the basis for the certitude in this thread to the contrary.
     
  46. EvilEmpire

    EvilEmpire Dope Staff Member Dope

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    Thanks for posting that. I thought there would be more financial incentive for him to extend.
     
  47. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    1. Should every player who isn't getting his desired playing time be able to argue that those DNP-CDs were extra-contractual discipline not permitted by the CBA?
    2. What are the damages so long as the Pelicans continue to pay him? I suppose Davis could argue that benching impairs the value of some future sneaker contract or ancillary revenue source, but where is that sort of revenue guaranteed in the CBA?
    3. Is it bad faith for the franchise to protect its most valuable asset from injury? He's the one who asked for a trade.

    Anyone can bring a lawsuit, but this one smells like a loser to me.
     
  48. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    My guess is the the league would step in if NO tried to sit Davis the rest of the season. Maybe Silver already has. League commissioners do have fairly broad authority in such matters.
     
  49. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Probably not. If there were evidence that the DNP-CDs weren’t made for on the court basketball reasons (say, just hypothetically, now, these DNPs directly coincided with a disciplinary fine and a healthy superstar) then, yeah, probably.

    You understand how this differs from not playing a healthy superstar solely for the purposes of retaining his trade value though right? I mean, of course you do. Which is why you’d rather talk about something that isn’t really at issue.

    Why would that revenue have to be guaranteed in the CBA? Merely not being able to play could be a cognizable injury, given the short-lives nature of a professional sports career. If I recall correctly, that was one of the harms that Tom Brady argued in his Deflategate suit.

    If they’re doing it in bad faith it is. I mean, this is why we have arbitrations and trials.

    Based on what, exactly? Your argument is basically: it’s possible that teams might not play someone for some reason other than bad faith.

    Like, no kidding? And?

    I mean, let’s see if the team that wants to tank and protect its most valuable asset from injury sits him or plays him.
     
  50. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    So there is one set of rules for superstars and another set of rules for everybody else? Why does he get to file a grievance and Chandler Parsons doesn't? Does Parsons have a claim against the NBAPA for failure adequately to represent if the union files a grievance on ADs behalf but not on Parsons behalf?
    And you would set out to establish "bad faith" exactly how? Is sitting him to prevent injury to a valuable asset "bad faith?"
     
    #1350 Big John, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019

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