Anthony Davis: No Loyalty
- Thread starter HomeRunBaker
- Start date
If the Cs get the Sacto pick at 9-12 and the Clips at 15, is this enough of a package to get Davis on July 1?
Brown
Williams
Baynes
Rozier (S and T)
Player picked for NO with the Sacto pick at 9-12
Player picked with the Clips pick at 15
Memphis pick, top 6 protected, then unprotected
Celtics 2020 first
And if not, I'd hate to do it, but sub Tatum for Brown. Could the Pels say no to that much coming back, especially with how weakened their bargaining position has become because of Klutch/LeBron?
Brown
Williams
Baynes
Rozier (S and T)
Player picked for NO with the Sacto pick at 9-12
Player picked with the Clips pick at 15
Memphis pick, top 6 protected, then unprotected
Celtics 2020 first
And if not, I'd hate to do it, but sub Tatum for Brown. Could the Pels say no to that much coming back, especially with how weakened their bargaining position has become because of Klutch/LeBron?
Well, Stern blocked the CP3 trade, but at that point the league owned the team. What Silver should try to do is prevent any active player from having de facto control of any agency representing other players. I'm not sure how to accomplish that, but forcing player agents to be truly independent is probably in the best interests of both the owners and the players.
Another course is to take away draft picks, as Stern did to the Wolves. Without the ability to offer picks, the Lakers would have little or no chance of getting Davis before he hits free agency.
Another course is to take away draft picks, as Stern did to the Wolves. Without the ability to offer picks, the Lakers would have little or no chance of getting Davis before he hits free agency.
Really? I think you might be mixing people up there. Woj has notoriously been pretty tough on LeBron and his crew.
Out of journalists being quoted in this thread, it's clear that Haynes is basically a player/player agent shill. His article on the situation should have had Rich Paul in the byline. I wouldn't quite call Windhorst a shill or a mouthpiece for Klutch but he's pretty close.
I'd definitely be wary of paying too much attention to either of them during this process.
I doubt that Ainge would trade both Kyrie and Tatum for AD, but he sure as shit wouldn't make such a franchise altering move because he wanted to keep some guy away from some other team. That's crazy, even by BigJohn standards.
This is my exactly what I was thinking in terms of an offer except I'd sub the Celtics first to be in 2019 and remove Baynes.
I believe Horford may be part of the offer even though it will be difficult to get him to opt in and agree to go to New Orleans. IT seems like a fait accompli, if the Celtics trade for the Brow, that one of Brown/Tatum and one of Hayward/Horford will be on different teams.
I'm even crazier than that. I hope Toronto gets Davis, because I'm dead against selling the farm for Davis-- I wouldn't give them Kyrie, or Tatum, or anyone else. Davis' injury history is a concern, and he has led the Pelicans exactly nowhere. He's a bunch of gaudy stats with no wins to show for it.
Tatum is an absolute stud and I plan to be alive in three years, after Kawhi and Davis leave and Toronto's roster turns into a pile of shit.
Assuming Davis is the only Pel coming Boston's way, the Celtics need to send out around $20.5 million. Baynes and Brown make $11.4m combined. Rozier's new deal would make up the rest (assuming all of his new money counts for trade purposes.
Are there any capologists reading this post who can explain if every dollar of a RFA S and T counts for money matching purposes?
I'm not making an argument for or against the trade. Just saying that DA won't do something that huge because of its implications for a rival. Hell, one of the biggest trades that he made (since Garnett) was with Philly. Another was with Lebron's Cavs. He's concerned about our roster, not anyone else's.
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You wouldn't give the Pelicans anybody for a top 5 player in the game? That's over the top ridiculous.
Yes, and he fleeced both of those teams. Maybe he can fleece Demps too, but it's unlikely. Demps knows that the baseline is a Ball, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart package and some non-lottery picks from the Lakers. He could do that deal today. The question is whether or not a team like Toronto, Denver or Portland will come forward with a better offer between now and Feb. 7, or after July 1.
Not for a rental, no. AD is gone to the lakers in 2020, no matter how much arm twisting Ainge does.
Why is he going to LA exactly in 2020? LeBron will be 36 years old. Is that really the place he wants to spend the rest of his career?
Isnt a real key here that even though you make the Celtics better by providing them AD, it has no impact on Most if not all of the Compensation you would receive (SAC & Mem Picks). Then you add in receiving a young player as well (Brown/Tatum)
Whereas if say the Lakers offer 3 #1s over the next 4 years.....those #1s are bound to be very deep into the 1st Round. Even if Ball or Kuzma is added in their offer still has to be serverely discounted.
Is there any other team that can do what the Celts can do in this aspect?
Whereas if say the Lakers offer 3 #1s over the next 4 years.....those #1s are bound to be very deep into the 1st Round. Even if Ball or Kuzma is added in their offer still has to be serverely discounted.
Is there any other team that can do what the Celts can do in this aspect?
I guess you didn’t like Kevin Garnett either because your first paragraph applies directly to him.
Tatum might be a stud, he isn’t near that yet. We are talking about a top 5 player in the NBA. You do everything possible to get a guy like that 100 times out of 100.
AD comes with Kyrie staying & the Celtics make the finals or win it next year? AD is not leaving to go to Lakers.
And you know that he will stay-- how? I'm basing my best guess on the fact that his agent is under the control of another player and will steer him in that direction.
The Garnett situation was different. There was no Klutch Sports back then, and Ainge had assurances that KG would stay in Boston.
In general I think short contracts and increased player movement has been a positive for the NBA and the increased focus it places on free agency and the trade deadline is a win for fans, but this is a bad, bad look. It's problematic enough that Davis is requesting a trade a year and a half before his contract is up; having the team respond by benching him is just a slap in the face to the fans and hurts the integrity of the game.
If Davis is in a winning environment in Boston, is he giving up upwards of $40-$45 million to leave for LA?
Actually I sort of do hope that they get Zion, that will make them more realistic on the trade front as they'll have their new shiny marketing toy and they won't be fighting for an unrealistic return on Davis.
. So , does that include trading Kyrie if necessary? If Kyrie stays, there is no AD in Boston before July. Other teams will certainly put their best offers forward now, since their GMs will also do everything possible to get AD.
Not only that, is LA really going to kick the can down the road one more year by signing marginal players to one year contracts to preserve cap space for AD? He's worth it, but how do you sell that to Lebron?
Tough. But if the Lakers' best offer isn't good enough, then they have to wait. What's the alternative? As for the argument that Paul George stayed, his decision and AD's are independent events. Don't infer what AD will do from what PG13 did.
Any offer with a lottery pick (read: Knicks/Celtics) won't be a "best" offer until the lottery occurs. That, alone, is a reason for NO to wait until after the season to trade AD.
The problem is that LA is technically not doing anything wrong. If LeBron is recruiting Davis to come over, and Davis requests a trade, there is nothing to stop LA from inquiring about a trade. Nor is there anything to prevent LA from acquiring Davis in that case, unless the trade offer is clearly so far out of bounds to be ridiculous.
I get that there may very well be "unofficial discussions" between Magic and LeBron. But good luck proving that.
The whole episode is really a loophole of the NBA's making. As much as I don't want Davis on the Lakers, I'm not exactly going to shed any tears for any of the other owners if that's where he ends up.
Sure, they could do that. But then they won't be able to offer AD the max a year later. Really, it's Magic Johnson's fault. If he had drafted Tatum instead of Lonzo Ball AD would already be a Laker.
This is a shockingly reasonable position. There is a pyrrhic-victory scenario here, a winner's curse where our team ends up being less than the sum of its parts and we gave away too many assets, too much depth, to put all our eggs in one basket.
On the other hand, yearly league-leading Player Efficiency Ratings:
2018-19: 1. Davis (30.9), 2. Harden 3. Giannis 4. Kawhi
2017-18: 1. Harden, 2. Davis (28.9), 3. Lebron 4. Curry
2016-17: 1. Westbrook, 2. Durant, 3. Kawhi, 4. Davis (27.5)
2015-16: 1. Curry, 2. Durant, 3. Westbrook, 4. Lebron (9. Davis 25.0)
2014-15: 1. Davis (30.8), 2. Westbrook, 3. Curry, 4. Harden
2013-14: 1. Durant, 2. Lebron, 3. Kevin Love?!, 4. Davis (26.5)
Annual average PER over the last 5.5 seasons:
1. Davis 28.2
2T. Durant 27.6
2T. Lebron 27.6
4. Curry 27.1
5. Harden 26.9
6. Westbrook 26.7
7. Kawhi 24.5
As for injury history / fragility, here's total Games Played over the last 5.5 seasons: Kawhi 323, Durant 360, Davis 386, Westbrook 396, Curry 406, Lebron 412, Harden 436. How many of those players would you hesitate to acquire due to injury concerns? And that's leaving aside that Davis is younger than all of them.
And he might arguably be the best player in the game, at least as measured by PER.
By WS/48, his career average ranks 5th among active players (ahead of Curry, and very close to Harden and Durant), and his league ranks the last 5.5 years have been 2nd, 5th, 18th, ~25th, 2nd, 7th.
So I'd say calling his career "a bunch of gaudy stats with no wins to show for it" is a bunch of Jeter-worshipping BS. Nobody can win a title all by themselves, just ask the first half of Michael Jordan's career. 4 of Jordan's 5 best seasons by PER, his playoff run was ended by the Celtics, then the Pistons 3x in a row. The team built around you matters a decisive amount. And if you read the in-depth Zach Lowe profile of why the Pelicans have gone nowhere, it's a horror story of managerial malpractice on par with the Cleveland Browns. Nobody could look at that and conclude that Davis was the real problem with them never truly contending.
The Pelicans are 26th in NBA Home Attendance so the fans are not showing up even WITH Davis in tow. Shutting him down will result in a half empty arena down the stretch and a franchise on the way to Seattle (or Las Vegas).
Oh, he's a top 5 player with an outstanding PER. But the Kyrie/Davis scenario is a one-year scenario. After that it's Kyrie plus whatever Ainge can get by trading Davis at the 2020 deadline, so as not to lose him for nothing.
Another ridiculous statement. If Danny gets Davis, there is no possible scenario where Davis is traded. None.
I don't agree with you about Anthony Davis but it does amaze me that he escapes criticism for the most part. Cousins was a loser on loser teams. Why isn't Anthony Davis?
I'm admittedly on the outskirts of understanding the Davis situation, but I found this helpful
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25892346/new-orleans-pelicans-gm-dell-demps-returned-call-los-angeles-lakers-gm-anthony-davis
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25892346/new-orleans-pelicans-gm-dell-demps-returned-call-los-angeles-lakers-gm-anthony-davis
Then he leaves for LA for nothing. That's what he and his agent are saying right now. Maybe it's a bluff. but I doubt it.
So what you are saying is even if the Celtics are in a position to go to the NBA Finals with Kyrie and Davis that they should trade him because he might leave for LA?
How will we feel if they trade for Davis and he leaves after a year?
I guess it depends on how much info Ainge has on Davis' true intentions, but generally speaking if they do it without including Tatum, I'm OK with the risk, even if it's Brown+Sacto pick.
I guess it depends on how much info Ainge has on Davis' true intentions, but generally speaking if they do it without including Tatum, I'm OK with the risk, even if it's Brown+Sacto pick.
Nobody is saying that they KNOW that he will stay. You are saying that he's definitely going to LA. You haven't provided any evidence except that he and Lebron share an agent.
Interesting question. Let's say you can win a title in 2019-20 with Kyrie, Davis and whatever else is left after the trade. But you know Davis is leaving, so you will have to go back to square 1 and rebuild after 2020, especially if Kyrie doesn't want to stay after Davis leaves.
Or, do you keep Kyrie and the young assets (Tatum, Brown, etc.) and stay competitive for the next 5-6 years, but with no assurance of a title in any given year.
My evidence that he's leaving is that his agent says he is. Presumably his agent wouldn't be saying this if it did not reflect Davis' current feelings. It's not just the fact that Klutch Sports represents both Davis and James. Could those feelings change? Sure.
Or, do you keep Kyrie and the young assets (Tatum, Brown, etc.) and stay competitive for the next 5-6 years, but with no assurance of a title in any given year.
My evidence that he's leaving is that his agent says he is. Presumably his agent wouldn't be saying this if it did not reflect Davis' current feelings. It's not just the fact that Klutch Sports represents both Davis and James. Could those feelings change? Sure.
Cousins never even made the playoffs. Davis has and at least got the second round. I know he hasn't carried teams on his back the way one might expect a player of his talent to, but his teams haven't under-performed either.
You put Anthony Davis on the Celtics next year and they either win the title or come damn close. Not only does that make the deal more than worth it, but it puts you in the position to call his bluff. He's really going to walk away from a max contract from a title winner/contender to be Lebron's running mate?
I remember people calling Cousins out for his lack of self control and supposed badness as a teammate. Who here ever called Cousins a loser because his teams underperformed? Pretty much everyone gets a pass for a losing record in Sacramento, for example. This is kind of a strawman imo.
You guys are too smart for this bullshit.
Pels know theres is no reason to rush this trade. No trade will be made in the next few weeks.
Irving has stated on multiple occasions he wants to resign here, but hasnt yet because he makes more money doing so at the end of the season.
We also are pretty confident that the "Kyrie wants out" stuff is planted.
The Celtics are the best trading partner, even without Tatum involved. All the other stuff is noise.
Chill.
Pels know theres is no reason to rush this trade. No trade will be made in the next few weeks.
Irving has stated on multiple occasions he wants to resign here, but hasnt yet because he makes more money doing so at the end of the season.
We also are pretty confident that the "Kyrie wants out" stuff is planted.
The Celtics are the best trading partner, even without Tatum involved. All the other stuff is noise.
Chill.
