What do you want Pats to do with #3?

What do you want the Pats to do with #3?

  • Trade multiple picks for #1 and take Williams

    Votes: 20 4.7%
  • Draft Jayden Daniels at #3

    Votes: 91 21.4%
  • Draft Drake Maye at #3

    Votes: 183 43.1%
  • Draft Marvin Harrison Jr. at #3

    Votes: 55 12.9%
  • Draft someone else not mentioned at #3 (please specify)

    Votes: 3 0.7%
  • Trade down and pick up more picks and take a WR (Nabers, Odunze, etc.)

    Votes: 9 2.1%
  • Trade down and pick up more picks and take an OL (Fashanu, Alt, etc.)

    Votes: 31 7.3%
  • Trade down and pick up more picks and take a QB (McCarthy, Penix, etc.)

    Votes: 33 7.8%

  • Total voters
    425

jk333

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E5 Yaz

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What do you call it when Poster A posts a video, Poster B reacts to it, then Poster C reacts to Poster B by posting the same video Poster A posted in the first place?
SoSH
 

ManicCompression

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We’ll see in a month but I think McCarthy is all hype as a top 5 pick; Levis had a similar type of talk last year in the last few weeks before the draft.
Yeah, or Washington and New England are feeding the useful idiot reporters information that they'll distribute without questions to get the guys they actually want at 2/3.
 

jk333

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What do you call it when Poster A posts a video, Poster B reacts to it, then Poster C reacts to Poster B by posting the same video Poster A posted in the first place?
SoSH
I laughed, very good spoiler!
 
Oct 12, 2023
666
Washington is looking at him at 2! Link-
View: https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1772348384336056692/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1772348384336056692&currentTweetUser=awfulannouncing


We’ll see in a month but I think McCarthy is all hype as a top 5 pick; Levis had a similar type of talk last year in the last few weeks before the draft.
Cuts both ways though, see Anthony Richardson

For every QB who is laughed at for being considered (in media circles) as a top 10 pick and ultimately doesn’t, there’s one who goes way higher than expected
 
Apr 7, 2006
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I know very little, but from what I've read of people I respect, if the Patriots take JJ over Drake Maye at #3, I'll be shocked and feel ALL the sads.
 

Average Reds

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What's the explanation for McCarthy being used the way he was if he is this exceptionally talented QB? I understand that Michigan focused on its strengths on offense just like any team should and that he came through in big spots, people seem to like his demeanor, he has athleticism, but you would think a coach with Harbaugh's experience could find ways to incorporate the passing game more if he had a wunderkind at QB.

What am I missing?
I watched every Michigan game the last two seasons. Their offense is 100% a reflection of Harbaugh’s belief that success comes from dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball so you can control the game.

McCarthy has a great arm, is extremely athletic and smart. His numbers outside of the pocket are exceptional. The fact that he didn’t throw for 400 yards a game is simply a function of what they needed him to do.

I understand why people have questions, and the reality is that the pro game is so much faster that you never really know if an NFL QB will succeed until he does, but I really think that whoever takes him will be pleased. (I also don’t see the Pats taking him, so this is probably academic.)

This post is giving me Drew Henson flashbacks.
I get your point, but Drew Henson took several years off to play baseball and then had the misfortune to come back and play for a coach who wasn’t involved in his selection and successfully buried him.

The only real similarity is that they both played at Michigan.

That was 12 years ago, though, and both the college and pro games have changed quite a bit since then.
This is true, but it’s worth noting that Harbaugh’s philosophy of how to win at the college level has not changed in the last 35+ years.
 

tims4wins

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I watched every Michigan game the last two seasons. Their offense is 100% a reflection of Harbaugh’s belief that success comes from dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball so you can control the game.

McCarthy has a great arm, is extremely athletic and smart. His numbers outside of the pocket are exceptional. The fact that he didn’t throw for 400 yards a game is simply a function of what they needed him to do.

I understand why people have questions, and the reality is that the pro game is so much faster that you never really know if an NFL QB will succeed until he does, but I really think that whoever takes him will be pleased. (I also don’t see the Pats taking him, so this is probably academic.)



I get your point, but Drew Henson took several years off to play baseball and then had the misfortune to come back and play for a coach who wasn’t involved in his selection and successfully buried him.

The only real similarity is that they both played at Michigan.



This is true, but it’s worth noting that Harbaugh’s philosophy of how to win at the college level has not changed in the last 35+ years.
Plus, it worked. They won the natty. And McCarthy is still going to be a first round pick. And I think the fact that McCarthy was ok doing what was in the best interest of the team is a feather in his cap.
 

snowmanny

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Actually my poorly constructed point was in reference to the "How good can McCarthy be if Michigan didn't feature him' argument,, which was reminiscent of the "How good can Brady be when Michigan kept pushing the other guy?" Which reminded me of many stupid moments in Michigan football history, which I should be over by now.
 

tims4wins

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I watched every Michigan game the last two seasons. Their offense is 100% a reflection of Harbaugh’s belief that success comes from dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball so you can control the game.

McCarthy has a great arm, is extremely athletic and smart. His numbers outside of the pocket are exceptional. The fact that he didn’t throw for 400 yards a game is simply a function of what they needed him to do.

I understand why people have questions, and the reality is that the pro game is so much faster that you never really know if an NFL QB will succeed until he does, but I really think that whoever takes him will be pleased. (I also don’t see the Pats taking him, so this is probably academic.)



I get your point, but Drew Henson took several years off to play baseball and then had the misfortune to come back and play for a coach who wasn’t involved in his selection and successfully buried him.

The only real similarity is that they both played at Michigan.



This is true, but it’s worth noting that Harbaugh’s philosophy of how to win at the college level has not changed in the last 35+ years.
Plus, it worked. They won the natty. And McCarthy is still going to be a first round pick. And I think the fact that McCarthy was ok doing what was in the best interest of the team is a feather in his cap.
 

tims4wins

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I watched every Michigan game the last two seasons. Their offense is 100% a reflection of Harbaugh’s belief that success comes from dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball so you can control the game.

McCarthy has a great arm, is extremely athletic and smart. His numbers outside of the pocket are exceptional. The fact that he didn’t throw for 400 yards a game is simply a function of what they needed him to do.

I understand why people have questions, and the reality is that the pro game is so much faster that you never really know if an NFL QB will succeed until he does, but I really think that whoever takes him will be pleased. (I also don’t see the Pats taking him, so this is probably academic.)



I get your point, but Drew Henson took several years off to play baseball and then had the misfortune to come back and play for a coach who wasn’t involved in his selection and successfully buried him.

The only real similarity is that they both played at Michigan.



This is true, but it’s worth noting that Harbaugh’s philosophy of how to win at the college level has not changed in the last 35+ years.
Plus, it worked. They won the natty. And McCarthy is still going to be a first round pick. And I think the fact that McCarthy was ok doing what was in the best interest of the team is a feather in his cap.
 

Average Reds

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Actually my poorly constructed point was in reference to the "How good can McCarthy be if Michigan didn't feature him' argument,, which was reminiscent of the "How good can Brady be when Michigan kept pushing the other guy?" Which reminded me of many stupid moments in Michigan football history, which I should be over by now.
That whooshing sound was your point flying over my head.

:)
 

j44thor

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There was a ton of smoke around Will Levis going 4th overall at this time last year. Most "pundits" had him in the top 10. Not saying they are similar prospects but I think the helium around McCarthy is Levisesque coming from teams throwing out typical draft BS. Now on the flip side Daniels rise is similar to Malik Willis in 2022 draft. Draftniks thought he would go first round but the same was never said in NFL circles and we know how that turned out. Again Daniels is a much, much better prospect than Willis could dream to be but much like Daniels Willis was a relative unknown going into his sr. season at the powerhouse known as Liberty.

I think the recent McCarthy fawning is over the top but the draft is unpredictable. At this point I'll be surprised if Caleb and Maye don't go 1-2. They were considered better than Bryce Young at this point last season.
 

j44thor

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How have I never seen this Caleb play before from his freshman yr? This is very Mahomes like. 4th and short his team up 5 with 3:20 to play and his RB is stood up behind the line so he strips his own RB to scramble for the first which likely iced the game. I want NE to draft Caleb at 3 but realize that is a pipe dream.

 

ManicCompression

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Not for Jim
Andrew Luck averaged
- more attempts
- more completions
- more yards
- more touchdowns (way more touchdowns)

than JJ every year that you can compare the two, and I don’t think it’s because Luck had more talent to work with. I think if Jim trusted JJ like he trusted luck, we would have seen more from him.
 

Super Nomario

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Andrew Luck averaged
- more attempts
- more completions
- more yards
- more touchdowns (way more touchdowns)

than JJ every year that you can compare the two, and I don’t think it’s because Luck had more talent to work with. I think if Jim trusted JJ like he trusted luck, we would have seen more from him.
It's not reasonable to compare them; Luck was a generational QB prospect and McCarthy is just a decent one. The point is, even with a generational QB prospect in Luck, Harbaugh still ran the ball a hell of a lot. Running the ball a hell of a lot with McCarthy is not necessarily a black mark; it's the way Harbaugh has always operated.

(and FWIW the years we can compare are Luck's 09/10 vs McCarthy's 22/23, where the differences are less stark)
 

ManicCompression

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It's not reasonable to compare them; Luck was a generational QB prospect and McCarthy is just a decent one. The point is, even with a generational QB prospect in Luck, Harbaugh still ran the ball a hell of a lot. Running the ball a hell of a lot with McCarthy is not necessarily a black mark; it's the way Harbaugh has always operated.

(and FWIW the years we can compare are Luck's 09/10 vs McCarthy's 22/23, where the differences are less stark)
It's not reasonable to compare them but... you compared them. And the differences are stark no matter how you slice it. If you compare Luck's sophomore season to McCarthy's junior, Andrew had 40 more attempts (28.6/game vs. 22.1) and threw 10 more touchdowns even though he played in 2 less games. I don't know where to find stats about the NCAA scoring or passing environments of 2010 vs. 2023, but it's at least worthwhile to note that Harbaugh wouldn't take the training wheels off one while the other was basically asked to play like a pro QB (for example, in 2010, Brady only averaged two more attempts per game than Luck).
 

DJnVa

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How have I never seen this Caleb play before from his freshman yr? This is very Mahomes like. 4th and short his team up 5 with 3:20 to play and his RB is stood up behind the line so he strips his own RB to scramble for the first which likely iced the game. I want NE to draft Caleb at 3 but realize that is a pipe dream.

COUNTERPOINT: Struggled to beat Kansas. No good.
 

Cellar-Door

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McCarthy's low usage makes him harder to evaluate, but in itself shouldn't matter at all. We know what kind of coach Harbaugh is, and we know that MI was a dominant defense and rushing team who went undefeated and as such did not need their QB to do much. Harbaugh isn't the kind of guy who will have his young QB throw a bunch just to throw, he's going to manage the game limit risk and ask the QB to throw only in set situations.
 

ManicCompression

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I mean, he didn’t. He used Luck as an illustrative example of how McCarthy’s coach has historically handled quarterbacks.
But it's not very illustrative because one threw 30% more per game and with 50% more touchdowns per game despite being on a less talented team in a different offensive environment. If the point is "If you're really good, Harbaugh lets you throw the football more aggressively, and if you're not that good he doesn't let you do those things," then I don't see what the point is because that's everyone's beef with McCarthy. If he was worthy of being a top three pick, we'd likely see him throwing more than 22 times a game with 1.5 touchdowns - and FWIW, he threw 18 of those 22 touchdowns against 9 unranked opponents, with 4 touchdowns in 5 games against ranked opponents (three of them vs. Alabama).
 

DJnVa

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If McCarthy is gone at #2 I would imagine you would entertain talks with the Chargers at #5 so they could get MHJ. That is assuming you'd be okay with Maye/Daniels falling to 5.
 

Cellar-Door

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But it's not very illustrative because one threw 30% more per game and with 50% more touchdowns per game despite being on a less talented team in a different offensive environment. If the point is "If you're really good, Harbaugh lets you throw the football more aggressively, and if you're not that good he doesn't let you do those things," then I don't see what the point is because that's everyone's beef with McCarthy. If he was worthy of being a top three pick, we'd likely see him throwing more than 22 times a game with 1.5 touchdowns - and FWIW, he threw 18 of those 22 touchdowns against 9 unranked opponents, with 4 touchdowns in 5 games against ranked opponents (three of them vs. Alabama).
That is not anyone reasonable's beef with McCarthy. Anybody who is making that argument is someone you absolutely should not take seriously. Every serious analyst says "it makes it harder to evaluate him because he threw less and in more advantageous situations" but none of them are so dumb as to make the argument "Well he must be bad because his undefeated team didn't change their dominant playstyle that has been the hallmark of their coach for decades to juice his stats"
 

Zososoxfan

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Another Michigan fan here that's watched all of JJ's games and he's likely going to get drafted between 10-20 and that's where he belongs IMO. He's a heady player with all the tools you want, except maybe a bit shorter than ideal. His Michigan career is marked with fewer attempts than you like to see, but he also made some huge difficult plays that reflect a high ceiling. There's a lot of projection going on with JJ, but it's warranted. He's too good and QB is too important for him to slip, so any team with short or medium range QB needs will consider him, and if they don't he still won't fall past a well-run club that can afford to take the risk picking in the late teens or 20s.

Edit: To add, I don't know enough to say whether he's better or worse at the NFL level than Daniels, Maye, or Nix, but he does seem like a smart dude who can process defenses quickly, and definitely gets the team chemistry and leadership parts of the job right (e.g., giving tons of credit and NIL money to his OL).
 

ManicCompression

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That is not anyone reasonable's beef with McCarthy. Anybody who is making that argument is someone you absolutely should not take seriously. Every serious analyst says "it makes it harder to evaluate him because he threw less and in more advantageous situations" but none of them are so dumb as to make the argument "Well he must be bad because his undefeated team didn't change their dominant playstyle that has been the hallmark of their coach for decades to juice his stats"
I’m just pushing back on “hey, look, Jim didn’t throw with Andrew Luck so of course he’s not going to have McCarthy throw much” and then you look at Luck’s stats and he threw about as much per game as about half the NFL in 2010. It’s not a data point in McCarthy’s favor IMO.
 
Oct 12, 2023
666
If McCarthy is gone at #2 I would imagine you would entertain talks with the Chargers at #5 so they could get MHJ. That is assuming you'd be okay with Maye/Daniels falling to 5.
I cant imagine the Chargers are going to be all that interested in moving up for Harrison. The difference between him and Nabers probably isn’t worth the picks they’d have to give up.

Harbaugh and Roman seem to want to win in the trenches, and as desperate as their WR situation is, I’d think Alt or a trade down (getting Latham or Fuaga) would fit their philosophy more than trading up.
 

DJnVa

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I cant imagine the Chargers are going to be all that interested in moving up for Harrison. The difference between him and Nabers probably isn’t worth the picks they’d have to give up.
Well, that's just it---you ask what that delta is. If it's a 4th or whatever, then maybe you do it. It's clearly not going to be a haul like trading out to someone wanting a QB.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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My memory isn't the best, but can anyone recall a QB that climbs the draft board in the 8 weeks prior to the draft that has ended up working out? There's always QBs that end up shooting up the mock draft boards at this time of year, and my memory tells me these guys tend not to ever actually work out.
 

Cellar-Door

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The Chargers have been shopping their pick to move down since the minute they hired their new staff, can't imagine they have interest in trading up for a WR given their offensive staff
 

DJnVa

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The Chargers have been shopping their pick to move down since the minute they hired their new staff, can't imagine they have interest in trading up for a WR given their offensive staff
Ah, wasn't aware of that.

Carry on.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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If McCarthy is gone at #2 I would imagine you would entertain talks with the Chargers at #5 so they could get MHJ. That is assuming you'd be okay with Maye/Daniels falling to 5.
Ehh, I don't think so. If you like Maye or Daniels, don't get cute and just take the one you want at #3. I doubt the Pats have them viewed as equal prospects and are willing to take whoever falls in their lap at 5. They'll prefer one over the other and at that point it's not worth risking trading back and not getting the guy you want. ARI would be in a great spot to trade the 4th pick with Maye and Daniels on the board to collect a bounty and then the guy you really wanted is gone.

If they don't like Maye and Daniels, with Williams and McCarthy off the board in this scenario, then yeah, trade back and get the best return you can for the pick. I'd be bummed if the Pats didn't come out of the early 1st with a top 4 QB, but that's the only way I see them moving off #3 in this situation.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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My memory isn't the best, but can anyone recall a QB that climbs the draft board in the 8 weeks prior to the draft that has ended up working out? There's always QBs that end up shooting up the mock draft boards at this time of year, and my memory tells me these guys tend not to ever actually work out.
A lot of mocks at this point in 2017 didnt have Mahomes in the first round at all. That worked out pretty well.
 

nighthob

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If you draft a QB at #3, it's because your entire roster sucks. If he blows, chances are you're picking in the top #3 or so again next year (ie. picking Bryce Young last year and having the #1 this year that they had given up to Chicago).

If you draft a QB at #15, you've got a roster that is middle of the pack and is going to win some games regardless of the QB that you draft.
The context was about drafting a QB for the sake of drafting a QB. If the guy left isn't someone they think will succeed, do you do the safe thing and draft them? Because making the consensus QB pick rarely costs you your job (unless the owner really really loves them and they turn out to really really suck in which case you'll get the gas). I'd hope that they took the opposite approach, if they don't see it with the guy(s) left, I'd prefer that they try to stockpile picks and grab a developmental guy like Pratt or Rattler later on.

If you don't have a franchise QB, it's far, far better to go 2-15 instead of 7-9 or 8-8. If the Pats take MHJ at #3 and a tackle in the 2nd, and start Jacoby all year to go 8-8, then what?
Well, for one, I wouldn't want them to draft at #3 if they didn't believe that the leavings there were the guy. And even in your scenario there's no way that Brissett and a rookie WR are the difference between 4-13 and 8-9 (because all the good Ts will be gone by #34).
 

Deathofthebambino

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The context was about drafting a QB for the sake of drafting a QB. If the guy left isn't someone they think will succeed, do you do the safe thing and draft them? Because making the consensus QB pick rarely costs you your job (unless the owner really really loves them and they turn out to really really suck in which case you'll get the gas). I'd hope that they took the opposite approach, if they don't see it with the guy(s) left, I'd prefer that they try to stockpile picks and grab a developmental guy like Pratt or Rattler later on.



Well, for one, I wouldn't want them to draft at #3 if they didn't believe that the leavings there were the guy. And even in your scenario there's no way that Brissett and a rookie WR are the difference between 4-13 and 8-9 (because all the good Ts will be gone by #34).
I definitely don't disagree that if they don't believe Daniels/Maye are the guy, then fine, trade down and stockpile picks. I just think they'll be in a world of shit for a long time if they don't think Maye/Daniels are the guy. Because frankly, guys like Maye/Daniels don't come out of the draft very often. Drake Maye would likely be the #1 pick in half of the drafts over the last 20 years and Daniels probably wouldn't be much further behind. But that's their call to make.

However, I've been told more times than I can count on this board that an average, at worst, quarterback would have made this team a playoff contender last year (or at least a .500 team). If you add MHJ, Brissett, a tackle at the top of round 2, Gonzalez and Judon returning (and i don't buy that anyone can say all the good tackles will be off the board, offensive linemen that can play in this league routinely come out of the 2nd round), then how can those same folks not believe it wouldn't be a .500 team? I don't believe it myself, but even a 7-10 season sucks for a team that needs a QB, as does 6-11...They would need to be as bad or worse than last year to get into a position to get one of the top QB's in next year's draft (which isn't going to be as good as this one).

That's the risk this team runs not figuring out how to make a top 3 QB in a draft class with 3 excellent QB prospects work out. And honestly, I think if they blow the pick, it would leave them in a better position going forward because they'll be worse and drafting higher. They can stockpile picks until the cows come home, but if they don't find a QB at some point, none of it will matter.
 

NomarsFool

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The unfortunate reality is, I believe, that I think it is highly unlikely the Patriots really would have a clue that any of these prospects are "the guy" or "not the guy". I'm sure they will have an overall preference between all the QBs, but I'd be very surprised if they had any certainty that any of them would be a franchise QB, and similarly, that any of them could definitely NOT be a franchise QB. It's just hard for me to imagine a scenario where the Patriots look at Maye or Daniels or McCarthy and see some unfixable flaw that everyone else doesn't see.

The other biq question mark is, what are other teams offering for the pick at #3? Every radio caller and most of the hosts talk about the Pats getting a "boatload of picks" or a "haul". What if it's not quite a boatload? What if the best offer is 2 firsts and a 3rd? Is that a boatload? The team is really devoid of young talent, and I can certainly understand if they decide to trade down for 2 firsts in 2024 and then another first in 2025. If it's a first in 2024, and a first in 2025, and a first in 2026. Meh. It starts to feel a bit like that wouldn't really move the needle.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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I definitely don't disagree that if they don't believe Daniels/Maye are the guy, then fine, trade down and stockpile picks. I just think they'll be in a world of shit for a long time if they don't think Maye/Daniels are the guy. Because frankly, guys like Maye/Daniels don't come out of the draft very often. Drake Maye would likely be the #1 pick in half of the drafts over the last 20 years and Daniels probably wouldn't be much further behind. But that's their call to make.

However, I've been told more times than I can count on this board that an average, at worst, quarterback would have made this team a playoff contender last year (or at least a .500 team). If you add MHJ, Brissett, a tackle at the top of round 2, Gonzalez and Judon returning (and i don't buy that anyone can say all the good tackles will be off the board, offensive linemen that can play in this league routinely come out of the 2nd round), then how can those same folks not believe it wouldn't be a .500 team? I don't believe it myself, but even a 7-10 season sucks for a team that needs a QB, as does 6-11...They would need to be as bad or worse than last year to get into a position to get one of the top QB's in next year's draft (which isn't going to be as good as this one).

That's the risk this team runs not figuring out how to make a top 3 QB in a draft class with 3 excellent QB prospects work out. And honestly, I think if they blow the pick, it would leave them in a better position going forward because they'll be worse and drafting higher. They can stockpile picks until the cows come home, but if they don't find a QB at some point, none of it will matter.
The .500 last year with a decent QB includes having both Belichicks and a whole lot of bad opposing QB’s

Not the case this year with rookie HC, rookie DC, tougher (on paper) schedule. Downgrade most likely at LT. Judon is healthy but he and Jonathan Jones are getting close to the point where decline can be expected (same for Andrews). Guys like Tavai and Peppers had great years but were they career years or a “Belichick effect” or is this who they are moving forward? Plus even with Gonzalez and Judon healthy, there’s always injuries to deal with etc etc

Other than QB, this team’s roster is barely improved (if at all) from last year’s opening day team. If we’re saying “sure but look at these guys who are healthy” then that applies to other teams as well and it evens out to some degree.

Both things can be true. This could have been a close to .500 (or even 9-8) team with solid but unspectacular QB play last year. This team could have solid QB play this year and still end up with 4 wins.
 

MikeM

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This could have been a close to .500 (or even 9-8) team with solid but unspectacular QB play last year. This team could have solid QB play this year and still end up with 4 wins.
I been trying to hammer home that same reality point on my Jets board all winter. People get way too caught up this time of year in over simplified "if we improve here over 2023 we'll win X more games in 2024!" math that doesn't play out in a vacuum.

There is 2 teams AFC East that are clearly better then the 2 teams below them. The entire AFC North is a solid to absolute playoff projection bet lock with Cincy getting the healthy Joe B boost. The AFC South gets to bathe in their own cupcake division and likely creates an inflated wins team behind the divisional winner. KC is KC.

This surface level idea that it is going to be anything short of rough uphill sledding for any marginal talent team who is trying to actually clear the .500 mark in a crowded AFC picture is a lot more wish casting then reality imo.
 

Super Nomario

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I’m just pushing back on “hey, look, Jim didn’t throw with Andrew Luck so of course he’s not going to have McCarthy throw much” and then you look at Luck’s stats and he threw about as much per game as about half the NFL in 2010. It’s not a data point in McCarthy’s favor IMO.
2010 Stanford averaged 29.2 pass attempts per game and 41.2 rush attempts per game (~41% passing)
2010 NFL averaged 33.7 pass attempts per game and 27.2 rush attempts per game (~55%)
2023 Michigan averaged 24.1 pass attempts per game and 37.5 rush attempts per game (~39%)
2023 NFL averaged 33.7 pass attempts per game and 26.8 rush attempts per game (~56%)

I'm not seeing much difference in the passing environment or in Harbaugh's predilection for running/passing.
 

rodderick

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12,796
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Mac Jones that runs 4.5, had the sixth best three cone drill in the entire combine and a really good arm is such a fundamentally different prospect that I don't really get the comparison. I don't love McCarthy either, but I think it's easy to see why some would fall in love with the toolset and believe there's a lot more juice to be squeezed out of that profile of player than Harbaugh did at Michigan.