What do you want Pats to do with #3?

What do you want the Pats to do with #3?

  • Trade multiple picks for #1 and take Williams

    Votes: 20 4.7%
  • Draft Jayden Daniels at #3

    Votes: 91 21.4%
  • Draft Drake Maye at #3

    Votes: 183 43.1%
  • Draft Marvin Harrison Jr. at #3

    Votes: 55 12.9%
  • Draft someone else not mentioned at #3 (please specify)

    Votes: 3 0.7%
  • Trade down and pick up more picks and take a WR (Nabers, Odunze, etc.)

    Votes: 9 2.1%
  • Trade down and pick up more picks and take an OL (Fashanu, Alt, etc.)

    Votes: 31 7.3%
  • Trade down and pick up more picks and take a QB (McCarthy, Penix, etc.)

    Votes: 33 7.8%

  • Total voters
    425

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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Lots of good discussion on options. Curious about what this board wants to happen at this stage of the process? Given that Daniels vs. Maye remains unsettled, going to leave both as options to see which QB people prefer in the extremely unlikely event that both are available at #3.
 

nighthob

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Honestly, the more I think about this the more I'd like to see either a trade up for the can't miss guy or trade down for a bounty and sign Wilson after Denver's forced to release him.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Feb 19, 2015
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Whichever QB is at 3rd, assuming they like him, or trade down--only if they can get a haul--and draft BPA (positionally adjusted) throughout the draft, including defensive players.
 

Bowser

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Sep 27, 2019
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I opted for trading down and drafting a QB because I don't regard Williams as a sure enough thing to trade up for, and because I think McCarthy + a top 40 pick > Maye or Daniels. Note: This presumes McCarthy kills at the Combine, his pro day, interviews, etc. My man has some work to do.

However, I think Alt ought to be in play at #3. In my uninformed opinion, he's better than Fashanu and WAY better than any OT likely to be available in Round 2. He's a sure thing at a position of enormous need.

But I repeat myself.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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QB at 3 - any of Williams, Daniels, or Maye will have me excited. BUT... if they somehow can get a freaking haul for that pick, trade down and draft McCarthy and hope he ends up being the real deal, while adding lots of other good pieces too.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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If they can for sure get McCarthy, I'd try to trade down and pick up some additional premium picks. I don't think he makes it past 8, and anything past 4 is a risk, so they'll have to have good intel. If they try it and miss out on a top 4 QB, that's a catastrophe.
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,531
This is a years long rebuild in a league where you HAVE to have a top QB (or draft like six guys perfectly like SF) to have any chance of competing for a championship. The Patriots need an elite QB that requires an agreeable draft and a willingness to take a big (if reasonable) swing. They are so fucking fortunate that this draft, where in they have a top 3 pick, features THREE potentially elite QBs, a good number of really good tackles and a slew of playmaking WR when their top 3 needs are QB, OT, WR.

So: You take whichever top-rated (by the scouting dept and coaching staff) QB is still there at #3, you thank your lucky stars that fate handed you this draft class and you blow up any notion that you would ever trade down in a draft that lines up so well for you. Don't overthink. Get the QB.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm still too early to say for sure.
I know what I definitely do not want (any non-QB at #3, but particularly a WR, using a premium pick on Penix/Nix, McCarthy... well it would depend who was on the board).

I want Caleb the most, but by all accounts CHI won't even consider moving that pick unless they get a truly unprcedented haul, and that is probably too rich for me.
Still figuring out how I rank Maye/Daniels, but so far I'd be happy with either I think.
As to trading down, if for some reason the remaining QB is a bad choice, I can see one or more trade-downs making sense, pick up extra ammo, get a premium prospect at OT preferrably.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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I voted trade back, I’m assuming for multiple picks this year and maybe next, and grab one of the tackles. Alt or Fashanu would be ideal but Latham, Guyton, Morgan, Fautanu or Paul would be acceptable. I’m not sold on any of the non Williams QBs making enough of a difference to pass up solidifying the o line. I was all about Harrison but the more I think about it, everything gets easier if the offensive line is good. Even if we resign Onwenu I still want to go this route. Hopefully trading back would allow them to get multiple picks to double up in the early rounds. There’s a lot of talent at the top of this draft.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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McCarthy is a smaller Mac Jones with running ability. Don't want him at all.
I hope Mac becomes the benchmark for all terrible draft picks. The trauma he inflicted on our eyeballs really warrants it.

McCarthy may fail, of course, but I don't see any similarities with Mac. McCarthy's mechanics are excellent, he's a very good athlete, he has a strong arm, and he played with a decent but not transcendent set of skill position players. Drafting him in the top ten would be based primarily on projection given his age and experience thus far (we don't really know how he would read a pro defense) but you'd be betting on a much higher ceiling than Mac ever gave you.
 

Cellar-Door

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McCarthy definitely isn't like Mac, he's also super-raw and underdeveloped. He needs the Jordan Love treatment I think.
 

Bowser

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Sep 27, 2019
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Why on Earth do you like McCarthy this much?
He's got a plus arm and will run in the 4.4s. He's nothing like Mac. And when MIchigan killed Penn State, in the post-game handshake Drew Allar was in tears, and McCarthy was obviously giving him a pep talk, had his arm around him, and I thought, Helluva guy, McCarthy. Plus, how good was Jaylen Daniels two years ago when he was McCarthy's age? Not very.

Edit: Yeah, what those other guys said.
 

Cellar-Door

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He's got a plus arm and will run in the 4.4s. He's nothing like Mac. And when MIchigan killed Penn State, in the post-game handshake Drew Allar was in tears, and McCarthy was obviously giving him a pep talk, had his arm around him, and I thought, Helluva guy, McCarthy. Plus, how good was Jaylen Daniels two years ago when he was McCarthy's age? Not very.

Edit: Yeah, what those other guys said.
Of course one problem with this is.... very very few talented guys put it together like Daniels, even fewer do it in the NFL as opposed to college. McCarthy has upside, but he's also got some real Zach Wilson potential.
 

Auger34

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Apr 23, 2010
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I think McCarthy would be an absolute fucking disaster in New England and I actually like the player.

He needs major reps and/or being coached by a legitimate QB guru. Neither of which can happen in New England. I pray to God the patriots don’t go that route
 

Bowser

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Sep 27, 2019
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Of course one problem with this is.... very very few talented guys put it together like Daniels, even fewer do it in the NFL as opposed to college. McCarthy has upside, but he's also got some real Zach Wilson potential.
I'd be banking on the fact that McCarthy, who's considered an excellent leader and a class act, is more likely to reach his potential than, Wilson, an "entitled brat."

But you're right. Good guys fail, too.
 

Ed Hillel

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Personally, I'd put the four of Maye/Daniels/Nix/Fields in similar likelihoods to succeed over the next handful of years, and so I'd use the 3 pick on MHJ and try to figure out how to get one of Nix or Fields in addition. I want nothing to do with McCarthy.
 

67YAZ

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I said draft Maye because he’s got the tools & I think a young guy who can work the middle of the field bodes well for his development.

In reality, the Pats now have 2 respected QB coaches in AVP & McAdoo. You let these guys do their work with the scouting team, build your board, and be aggressive in getting the best QB available.

Available is the key word here. I doubt Chicago is interested in anything less than a Hershel Walker-sized haul & Washington may be similarly locked into taking the best QB available on their board. There may well be no reasonable path to a higher pick.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Personally, I'd put the four of Maye/Daniels/Nix/Fields in similar likelihoods to succeed over the next handful of years, and so I'd use the 3 pick on MHJ and try to figure out how to get one of Nix or Fields in addition. I want nothing to do with McCarthy.
If you think Fields ends up as a successful QB, youre nuts. 5 years into his career, and the best you can say is "he's fast and didn't have a good coordinator."

The dude can't read defenses. Full stop. If someone passes up on the chance for a real franchise QB for fucking Justin Fields, they deserve all the shit they get.
 

Seels

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I'm open minded but the only real thing I don't want is Alt. If they're determined to use a high pick on an OT in an OT heavy draft, trade down to do so. If we know today that Alt can be Joe Thomas, I'm still not sure I'd take him at 3.

This assumes the scouts are okay with the quarterbacks. If they're not, we're fucked anyway, so just do whatever.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I'm open minded but the only real thing I don't want is Alt. If they're determined to use a high pick on an OT in an OT heavy draft, trade down to do so. If we know today that Alt can be Joe Thomas, I'm still not sure I'd take him at 3.

This assumes the scouts are okay with the quarterbacks. If they're not, we're fucked anyway, so just do whatever.
A tackle makes sense if you have the skill players he needs to protect. Otherwise he ends up with Joe Thomas' career.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Weak arm. Lollipop throws.

Unlike Mac, McCarthy's also very light. 200ish pounds. He weighs the same as Bryce Young despite being 4-5 inches taller.
If you think McCarthy throws “lollipops” I really question what you’re watching. He’s among the best in the class at layering the ball and throwing lasers over the middle. I don’t think his arm strength is exceptional, but he has plenty of it in the parts of the field he likes to utilize

and yeah, he’s lean, but he just turned 21. There’s no reason to think he can’t bulk up a bit

again, not really seeing the Mac Jones comparison at all.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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I'm open minded but the only real thing I don't want is Alt. If they're determined to use a high pick on an OT in an OT heavy draft, trade down to do so. If we know today that Alt can be Joe Thomas, I'm still not sure I'd take him at 3.

This assumes the scouts are okay with the quarterbacks. If they're not, we're fucked anyway, so just do whatever.
Alt at 3 is just about the worst case scenario
 

Cellar-Door

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A tackle makes sense if you have the skill players he needs to protect. Otherwise he ends up with Joe Thomas' career.
maybe. I'd say it's really just QB though, because the other way is he has Trent Williams' career. I think OT is the 2nd or 3rd most impactful position in football, definitely behind QB, arguably behind edge. The problem as always is.... if you don't have good QB play you're likely going to be bad no matter what.

Edit- if you look at the 49ers, they're really the only recent team that has had success with an approach other than "have a top early drafted QB" and their team is built around.... a top drafted LT and a top drafted Edge. They then added a top RB, some solid late 1st early 2nd WRs, etc. But the core of that team is the O-line and passrush.
Of course I wouldn't take Alt at 3, you need a QB and if not go to 6, hope he's there. If he's not you can always trade back again and get Fashanu or Fuaga.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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maybe. I'd say it's really just QB though, because the other way is he has Trent Williams' career. I think OT is the 2nd or 3rd most impactful position in football, definitely behind QB, arguably behind edge. The problem as always is.... if you don't have good QB play you're likely going to be bad no matter what.
What's the difference between Thomas and Williams? They were both elite LTs, and neither won a SB. If you draft a player top 5, he ends up with a HoF career...and he hasn't won a SB? That says something about the value of the position relative to QB. I mean, Donovan Smith will get paid handsomely this offseason as a mediocre LT. And the reason he'll get paid is because Tom Brady was his QB in Tampa and Mahomes was his QB the last two seasons.

I'll take a 20% chance at AllPro level QB over 80% chance at AllPro level Tackle.
 

Cellar-Door

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What's the difference between Thomas and Williams? They were both elite LTs, and neither won a SB. If you draft a player top 5, he ends up with a HoF career...and he hasn't won a SB? That says something about the value of the position relative to QB. I mean, Donovan Smith will get paid handsomely this offseason as a mediocre LT. And the reason he'll get paid is because Tom Brady was his QB in Tampa and Mahomes was his QB the last two seasons.

I'll take a 20% chance at AllPro level QB over 80% chance at AllPro level Tackle.
Yeah, I was talking about LT vs. WR. QB is the only position that really impacts winning on an individual level to the point you can argue having one of the best should win you a SB. Trent Williams is one of the best LTs and he's a key reason the 49ers have been to 4 NFC championships in 5 years, but they also haven't won a ring in part because they've been at significant QB talent disadvantages.

I'm firmly for a QB, I was just pointing out the non-QB approach that has worked to some extent in the past in at least getting you close is to build up the key O-line and pass rush positions.
To me it seems pretty clear that if you want to maximize your chances of contending in the next 3-5 years, you either draft the QB, or if you truly believe that there isn't one left at 3 and couldn't trade up.... you trade down and draft a tackle, while trying to accumulate picks to go get the next QB (tough given the relative weakness of next year's class).
 

Ed Hillel

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If you think Fields ends up as a successful QB, youre nuts. 5 years into his career, and the best you can say is "he's fast and didn't have a good coordinator."

The dude can't read defenses. Full stop. If someone passes up on the chance for a real franchise QB for fucking Justin Fields, they deserve all the shit they get.
He’s played 3 years, bro.

I think he has as much a chance as Daniels, who is rail thin and doesn’t seem to throw a very accurate ball based on tape. Add in MHJ and I’ll take that to start an offense. I have Fields pegged as a pretty middle of the pack QB with 3 years experience, who hasn‘t really been put into a great scenario. I think he has potential to become a perennial Top 10 QB, even if there’s some significant variance in the range of outcomes.
 
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dirtynine

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I wanted to say Maye, and I’ll be appreciative if that happens.

A scenario flashed where they traded down, and turned it into two of the premium tackles. If they could get an LT and a RT, sign and move Onwenu back to G, then with Strange and either Andrews you have a pretty strong situation. Get a second-tier QB like Nix and/or throw money at it (Minshew, Cousins). Bolster the D even more, plus a WR / offensive threat or two in free agency. Then they’re not bad in any phase, potentially better than average in both with maybe a really dominant defense. I feel like if they can fix the line, it could unlock a whole different way to rebuild - maybe one that’s less risky than hoping a specific QB pans out. I know it’s probably not accurate, but it feels like a 50/50 shot that any given highly touted QB pick actually has a top-shelf NFL career.

So I voted tackle, because I see value there. But I would also really dig a QB, because that’s probably more sensible, and it’s (potentially) a way more fun ride to go on as a sports fan. In that case I favor Maye because he doesn’t seem fragile.
 

nighthob

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If you think Fields ends up as a successful QB, youre nuts. 5 years into his career, and the best you can say is "he's fast and didn't have a good coordinator."
I know it seems like Mac Jones has been here for five years, it’s actually been three.
 

ObstructedView

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In what ways is McCarthy anything like Mac Jones?
Aside from being another goofy white guy from a college championship team, I don't see many similarities. That said, I voted for taking Daniels at #3. QB is a huge roll of the dice, and in my mind taking a guy who's super athletic is a bit of a hedge since in theory he can make plays with his legs (god I hate that term) when nothing else is working. I guess I'm scarred from the last couple seasons of watching our guy turtle at the slightest pressure and not be a threat out of the pocket.
 

PRabbit

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Apr 3, 2022
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Dependant on the valuations of Maye and Daniels.

If you're Wolf/Mayo and think whoevers left can lead your squad back into contention, you take him and don't question it.

That being said, the roster has a dearth of talent everywhere basically. If you're not sold on them after due diligence (workouts, interviews), trade down and get a veteran QB to be a game manager. Get BPA down the draft and worry about fit later.

Basically what dirtynine just said a few posts up. Fix the line, get a WR or TE if Bowers drops, and load up on kids who project to be high end starters.

This post kinda sounds like a cop out but it seems to me that QB eval is tougher than everything else and would rather spend draft capital on more sure things if they aren't sold on whoevers there at 3.
 

EL Jeffe

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Aug 30, 2006
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I'm on an island on this one, but I voted other because I like JJ McCarthy at 3--and I'm not convinced you can trade down and get him. Although I'd consider maybe dropping down to 4, letting Arizona move up one to take MHJr, and picking up an additional asset.

Anyway, I think there's a few cases you can make that support McCarthy that high:

  • the analytics - he's the best in the class on 3rd and long, the type of degree of difficulty throws that translate to the NFL. He handled pressure/mushy pockets the best as well.
  • the system fit - his traits marry up very well to what you want from a West Coast QB. He's accurate, he gets the ball out on time, he has the arm talent to make all the throws, and he's very good throwing on the move/handling boot action. Michigan also ran more of a pro-style system than the other schools, with McCarthy handling pre-snap checks and reads. Very few bubble screens/free yards that some of the other QBs feasted on (and don't really translate to the NFL)
  • the intangibles - by all accounts, he has all the leadership and character traits you want as a face of the franchise QB. Harbaugh absolutely LOVES him and Harbaugh is picky and demanding. McCarthy also doesn't have some of the same concerns you have with Caleb Williams or Daniels (at least from his ASU days, although at LSU the football character concerns went away)
Some of the knocks on McCarthy also don't make sense to me, like Michigan protected him by not throwing the ball. He threw more college passes than Tua, Fields, Josh Allen, Mac, and plenty others. Lazar gave him a Brock Purdy comp, which I also find flawed (and Purdy is great in the WC system, so I don't even see it as a slight!). McCarthy has way more arm than Purdy, he's more athletic, has more twitch, and can create more explosive plays.

McCarthy is obviously a very different prospect than Anthony Richardson, but his draft stock reminds me very much of Richardson's. A guy people weren't really sure would come out, seen as a late 1st round project, but the NFL was much higher on than the media until everyone eventually caught up after the combine. McCarthy isn't the physical specimen Richardson is, but I bet his throwing session will be CJ Stroud-like, and the buzz will grow and grow. The guy was a 5-star recruit, has the tools (other than being skinny, which he can--and I'm sure is--working on), and has all the intangibles. To me, he's much closer to Burrow than Purdy. I think people have this "system QB" narrative about McCarthy because of Michigan's offense, and they're missing the natural talent (kind of like another Michigan QB from the past that I can think of... :) )
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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I hope the Pats FO doesn't overthink this as much as we are. Take the QB. We're drafting at 3 in a draft with 3 top tier (in terms of draft potential) QBs. Take him. You don't need a 3 year rebuild in the NFL, look at Houston. Take the QB, draft smart around him.
 

DJnVa

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Personally, I'd put the four of Maye/Daniels/Nix/Fields in similar likelihoods to succeed over the next handful of years, and so I'd use the 3 pick on MHJ and try to figure out how to get one of Nix or Fields in addition. I want nothing to do with McCarthy.
Why are we going to pay Fields when the team that's watched him for 3 years won't?
 
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Cellar-Door

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Why are we going to pay Fields when the team that's watched him for 3 won't?
TO be fair the answer to that is because that team can get Caleb Williams and we can't. I'm not a huge "trade for Fields" guy, but it's all about comparison to other options and Caleb is to me a different level of prospect than Daniels for example.
 

DJnVa

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TO be fair the answer to that is because that team can get Caleb Williams and we can't. I'm not a huge "trade for Fields" guy, but it's all about comparison to other options and Caleb is to me a different level of prospect than Daniels for example.
The delta between Maye/Daniels and Fields has to be large to want to pay him though. Maybe it is, but that seems impossible for the Patriots for figure out.
 

Jungleland

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I’m curious what others here would view as a good trade back return. What would you need to be happy with trading back and taking…

-MHJ?
-Alt?
-Nabers?
-Odunze?
-Fashanu?
-McCarthy?

For me, the sweet spot is somewhere in the ballpark of an additional first, second, and third and coming away with Alt, which I don’t think will be on the table and I’m still not convinced it wouldn’t be disappointing to not just take Daniels.