The TrevorEnding Story: needs shoulder surgery, out for the year (4/9 update)

shepard50

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I would just note that David Hamilton played last season with a torn UCL in his hand. This was not reported until September, but it was a factor all season. He probably isn't Ty Cobb, but we also probably have not seen the best of him on either side of the ball.

edit: wrong context
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Exactly.

Do not eff with Rafaela’s acclimation by moving him around if they think Mayer is going to be ready in 2025 (if they don’t, it’s a different calculus, admittedly).

Moving Rafaela to SS probably lessens the impact there, but also makes them much worse in CF, and much worse in LF, while also stunting Rafela’s development out in CF, all for “one season” where the team isn‘t built to contend for more than WC3 anyway…

That is why I said Iglesias, but literally any above average defensive SS will do. I chose the one that I’d have to think is dirt cheap. But go get that player, and leave Rafaela in CF, Duran in LF and go from there.

(I don’t know a thing about Gonzalez, but if he’s an above average defensive SS, that’s fine too.j
What about offensively, though? Doesn’t that need to be taken into consideration?

Rafeala at SS allows him to be replaced in the OF by someone like Abreu now, whereas if he stays jn the OF, those at bats are taken by Hamilton, Reyes, Gonzalez.

I don’t know the answer but think this makes it a bit more complicated.
 

NickEsasky

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I’ve had a torn labrum and a subluxation of my shoulder. I felt the labrum tear immediately but it wasn’t all that painful per se. I just felt something that wasn’t right. When I subluxated my shoulder it was a brief blinding pain. After I let go of the ball I immediately fell to the ground and clutched my shoulder bit after a few seconds there was no more pain and I kind of got embarrassed. So I totally can understand a situation where Story felt a lot of pain and assumed the worst but his shoulder is mostly unscathed compared to a dislocation.

I’m not a pro athlete and everyone’s different, but I can see how he could be back sooner rather than later if it was just a subluxation.
 

radsoxfan

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Subluxation just means his humeral head slid out of place to some degree, a term basically used as a less significant version of a dislocation. It may have partially slipped out of place rather than completely. Regardless, it seems like it slid back immediately and didn't need to be popped back in place on the field or in the ER.

These injuries still often (though not always) are associated with labral tears and capsular injuries. If he didn't already get one, he probably will get an MR arthrogram (contrast injected into the joint) to see any labral pathology more clearly.

If everything looks clean/minor, maybe a few weeks of rehab and hope for the best. If it happens multiple times he'll probably need surgery eventually, though maybe after the season.
 

The_Dali

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I think the point being made with Strider is that: all injuries make signings look bad in hindsight.

By the by, what do you call your writing style?
Well, true, but I think there was lots of consternation about Story when signed. Not so with Strider.

what do u mean by my writing style? Mostly its errors and auto-correct for using my phone for posting!
 
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Rasputin

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Do we really think the loss of Story dramatically impacts the teams playoff odds? I’d like to see the math on that.
I, too, would like to see the math on that, but in the absence of math, I really think it. Whoever gets those ABs is going to be a downgrade offensively and defensively, and probably by a lot. The pitchers are going to have to throw more pitches to get the same number of outs, will pitch fewer innings, and we'll have some of what we had last year.
 

TrotNixonRing

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What about offensively, though? Doesn’t that need to be taken into consideration?

Rafeala at SS allows him to be replaced in the OF by someone like Abreu now, whereas if he stays jn the OF, those at bats are taken by Hamilton, Reyes, Gonzalez.

I don’t know the answer but think this makes it a bit more complicated.
you’re right it all needs to be considered but when we’re talking SS and CF, I’ll almost always lean defense unless there’s something really compelling in the other direction
 

Cassvt2023

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FWIW, Story shown in the dugout smiling and looking loose on NESN broadcast. I think the news was better than could’ve been expected so let’s just hang tight and not fear the worst and jump to all these crazy conclusions that his career is over.
 

shepard50

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Well, true, but I think there was lots of consternation about Story when signed. Not so with Strider.

what do u mean by my writing style? Mostly its errors and auto-correct for using my phone for posting!
I think your arguments and insights would carry more weight if you considered spending the extra minute to clean up capitalisation and punctuation. I see that you are a new member. I offer this unasked for advice in the spirit of proving context to the site you may not have yet gleened. Read through the threads, you will not see much outside of the game threads that is that sloppy.

Also, welcome!
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Yeah, like I said, I didn't see a whole lot of "all these crazy conclusions".
Wasn’t disagreeing, I’m more just confused whether anyone actually ever thought career ending because I thought it was a joke but it keeps getting brought up now
 

mwonow

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I think the Story angst has a few different sources. He's looked great so far. People here are rooting for him to leave the injuries behind. And, this team is paper thin, any injury anywhere is potentially devastating.

Hope this is a brief detour, start of the season has been a blast, Story notably included.
 

Rasputin

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There are some real fatalists on here. Why all the talk of Story potentially being out for the season when there hasn’t even been a diagnosis? There hasn’t even been a roster move or an update. Can’t we wait a few hours until we hear anything concrete?
He writhed around on the ground like his arm had been ripped off by a goddamn yeti. Also, it looked bad.
 

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He writhed around on the ground like his arm had been ripped off by a goddamn yeti. Also, it looked bad.
It looked bad because he writhed around on the ground like his arm had been ripped off by a goddamn yeti. The play looked benign, and he looked fine in the dugout tonight.
I choose to be optimistic, but who the hell knows.
 

Rasputin

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It looked bad because he writhed around on the ground like his arm had been ripped off by a goddamn yeti. The play looked benign, and he looked fine in the dugout tonight.
I choose to be optimistic, but who the hell knows.
Oh yeah, I'm pretty optimistic, I was just answering the question about why people are pessimistic.
 

Harry Hooper

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The geometry of the way he hit the ground looked quite a bit like the injuries to Marcus Jones and Christian Gonzalez for the Pats last season. Hoping not as bad, though.
 

lexrageorge

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Story was hitting the ball well the last couple of games prior to the injury, so I can understand him being highly emotional when talking about this latest injury. Probably nothing much more to be done now other than waiting a few weeks to see how things heal up, which is probably frustrating to him as well.
 

YTF

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Story was hitting the ball well the last couple of games prior to the injury, so I can understand him being highly emotional when talking about this latest injury. Probably nothing much more to be done now other than waiting a few weeks to see how things heal up, which is probably frustrating to him as well.
Just my opinion, but I'm thinking him hitting the ball well lately is a small part of the emotions he's feeling. Out of a possible 324 games the pat two seasons, Story's only played 94 in '22 and 43 in '23 for a total of 137. He worked his ass off to get back to where he was and while he's struggled with the bat since his return last year, he's shown that he's still an elite defender at SS which is something the team desperately needed. He was that defensive rock in the middle that the team was depending on and after his long road back to being that this happened. He's a competitor, he wants/needs to be out on that field. He wants/needs to prove that he's still a meaningful contributor and worth the contract he signed. He probably knows what's being said about him. I would guess that's where the bulk of his emotions are coming from.
 

sezwho

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Just my opinion, but I'm thinking him hitting the ball well lately is a small part of the emotions he's feeling. Out of a possible 324 games the pat two seasons, Story's only played 94 in '22 and 43 in '23 for a total of 137. He worked his ass off to get back to where he was and while he's struggled with the bat since his return last year, he's shown that he's still an elite defender at SS which is something the team desperately needed. He was that defensive rock in the middle that the team was depending on and after his long road back to being that this happened. He's a competitor, he wants/needs to be out on that field. He wants/needs to prove that he's still a meaningful contributor and worth the contract he signed. He probably knows what's being said about him. I would guess that's where the bulk of his emotions are coming from.
When he showed the arm injury after showing all the signs of an arm injury just before signing, I was livid. Blooms margin for error was so slim that the AAV bet wasn’t worth it…BUT I was strangely confident about the back 2/3rds of the contract and really looking forward to his play. Never saw this coming : (.

Calling a 9 figure athlete‘poor guy’ seems crazy but I kinda do. I think it’s hard to understand the degree to which their identities are tied to success on the field. Not being able to deliver anything at all, let alone the expected/needed/paid for elite 2-way performance, must be brutal.

To the bolded, I wonder if he is starting to wonder himself..
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Smiling on the bench? At least he’ll be able to play the “John Lackey in 2012” role if he misses most of the season again.

Maybe it’s just a defense mechanism expecting the worst and hoping for the best by Story but at this point it would be smart to assume he’s not coming back this year and to plan accordingly.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I wasn’t even being snarky, Story would likely be a benefit to the younger players if he sticks around while he rehabs this latest injury.

Lester and others have said they thought the world of Lackey when he stayed with the team in 2012.
 

Fishy1

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Really hard to tell what's going on here. He says on the one hand he's gonna miss games and miss a little time, but he also might be done for the season?

Can we get @radsoxfan on this? Is the idea here that he won't know for sure how the shoulder will respond to the subluxation until he's had a chance to rehab it? So if it keeps popping out, he'll need to have surgery, but if he's able to strengthen it, he could be playing in a couple weeks? A month? What kind of breadth of outcomes are we looking at here?
 

YTF

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Really hard to tell what's going on here. He says on the one hand he's gonna miss games and miss a little time, but he also might be done for the season?

Can we get @radsoxfan on this? Is the idea here that he won't know for sure how the shoulder will respond to the subluxation until he's had a chance to rehab it? So if it keeps popping out, he'll need to have surgery, but if he's able to strengthen it, he could be playing in a couple weeks? A month? What kind of breadth of outcomes are we looking at here?
Subluxation just means his humeral head slid out of place to some degree, a term basically used as a less significant version of a dislocation. It may have partially slipped out of place rather than completely. Regardless, it seems like it slid back immediately and didn't need to be popped back in place on the field or in the ER.

These injuries still often (though not always) are associated with labral tears and capsular injuries. If he didn't already get one, he probably will get an MR arthrogram (contrast injected into the joint) to see any labral pathology more clearly.

If everything looks clean/minor, maybe a few weeks of rehab and hope for the best. If it happens multiple times he'll probably need surgery eventually, though maybe after the season.
 

Fishy1

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Thanks -- I don't know what's wrong with me, I read that yesterday and I guess in the panic that half a cup of coffee induces in me, I... forgot?
 

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In the Globe Speier said he was getting an MRI Monday. That will tell if there's labrum damage that requires surgery or if he can get by with just rest.
 

bernie carb 33

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In a way, I'm thinking Story's days at SS are over from a mostly uneducated viewpoint. At short, he just has to cover more area, and do more acrobatic type maneuvers to make incredible plays. Thus exposing himself to more injuries.

His one year at 2B with Bogaerts was less eventful, although I think he missed a lot of games that year with a broken hand/wrist from batting.
 

radsoxfan

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In the Globe Speier said he was getting an MRI Monday. That will tell if there's labrum damage that requires surgery or if he can get by with just rest.
If he's getting a second MRI, I'm sure it's an arthrogram this time with contrast injected into the joint. Harder to get that done on the weekend. You can still see most labral tears without the contrast, but this will just allow them to be a bit more precise.

Sometimes the tears are really big and there are fractures and it's obvious surgery will be needed. But many times with smaller tears it's not immediately clear if rest/rehab is going to be sufficient. Given the timeline of the surgery (basically out for the year), if things are on the minor end of the spectrum sometimes they'll at least try for rest/rehab first and the need for surgery (or not) will declare itself over time.

If after a month or two of rehab it still is slipping out or feels unstable they'll do surgery (this is what recently happened with Julius Randle in the NBA). Even surgery in June or July should let him be ready to go for 2025, so no huge urgency (unlike Tommy John, where a 2 month delay eats into the following season).
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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In a way, I'm thinking Story's days at SS are over from a mostly uneducated viewpoint. At short, he just has to cover more area, and do more acrobatic type maneuvers to make incredible plays. Thus exposing himself to more injuries.

His one year at 2B with Bogaerts was less eventful, although I think he missed a lot of games that year with a broken hand/wrist from batting.
Sorry, but one fluky injury on a diving play doesn't really translate to "he can't/shouldn't play the position anymore." He's no more vulnerable to an injury like that than someone five or ten years his junior. Do we think that if, say, Rafaela had made a similar dive and landed in a similar way, he wouldn't have suffered a similar injury?
 

radsoxfan

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Sorry, but one fluky injury on a diving play doesn't really translate to "he can't/shouldn't play the position anymore." He's no more vulnerable to an injury like that than someone five or ten years his junior. Do we think that if, say, Rafaela had made a similar dive and landed in a similar way, he wouldn't have suffered a similar injury?
Agree this seems mostly fluky. As far as ability to stay at short, I'm be more worried about a lower body or throwing shoulder injury, so I don't think this changes things much. You have to dive for the ball sometimes at 2B also.

He's getting older in general and the bat has not come around for awhile now, but SS should still be an option for him in the near term.
 

chrisfont9

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Agree this seems mostly fluky. As far as ability to stay at short, I'm be more worried about a lower body or throwing shoulder injury, so I don't think this changes things much. You have to dive for the ball sometimes at 2B also.

He's getting older in general and the bat has not come around for awhile now, but SS should still be an option for him in the near term.
Yep, everyone on the Sox will agree with this. Him, Cora and so on. His SS days will be over when Marcelo Mayer says so. No sooner. Hopefully his luck starts to even out.
 

Rovin Romine

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Yep, everyone on the Sox will agree with this. Him, Cora and so on. His SS days will be over when Marcelo Mayer says so. No sooner. Hopefully his luck starts to even out.
His SS days were already over when he moved to 2B to accommodate Xander.

There's no reason to think he wouldn't be open to that sort of shift again if it's in the best interest of the team.
 

chrisfont9

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His SS days were already over when he moved to 2B to accommodate Xander.

There's no reason to think he wouldn't be open to that sort of shift again if it's in the best interest of the team.
Sure, although I don't see that being the case until Mayer is ready. Nobody else on the current roster can handle it like him, but they can all play a passable 2b. And no way do you bring in anyone with Mayer waiting in the wings.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Story could, at least theoretically, opt out after next year too. He would have 2/55 left, the Sox could retain him by guaranteeing another year, so 3/75. Could come in to play if they want him to play a position he doesn’t want to play. Way too early to know what will happen there, of course.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Story could, at least theoretically, opt out after next year too. He would have 2/55 left, the Sox could retain him by guaranteeing another year, so 3/75. Could come in to play if they want him to play a position he doesn’t want to play. Way too early to know what will happen there, of course.
He will be coming off of three straight years of serious injuries. I don’t see any chance he opts out of his current deal. If he does he may well be looking at a spring training invite as a non-roster player. No chance he opts out.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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He will be coming off of three straight years of serious injuries. I don’t see any chance he opts out of his current deal. If he does he may well be looking at a spring training invite as a non-roster player. No chance he opts out.
Opt out is after next year; so will depend largely on how his 2025 goes. Hopefully it’s a fantastic year and something we have to worry about in a year+.
 

HfxBob

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Not really a Red Sox season until someone suggests we bring back Iglesias.
I LOL'ed at your comment, but I'm a little surprised Iglesias hasn't had an MLB appearance since 2022, because in 2022 he was basically an MLB average player, which is about exactly what he's been his whole career.
 

CKDexterHaven

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All of this prompted me to ask what happened to the Adalberto Mondesi Project…. [insert emoji HERE].

After last year’s lost season, I don’t see him on a roster for 2024. Marlins were considering him, but then nothing? Is he on a minors contract? Rehabbing independently? Weird story—no pun intended—but Mondesi has already had two subluxations, surgery for one.