The Ringer

JCizzle

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Taking these from the Bill Simmons thread.

Sharp sounds like he believes his stats are better than yours, like he's found the magic formula. I bought his book one year, it was a mess.

If I could place Sharp on a spectrum of self-proclaimed analysts, with the Cubic transformation guy on one side and Bill James/Tom Tango on the other, I think he'd be pretty far left, next to Eric Van.

This is a conundrum because his gambling podcast is going to feature Ben Solak (great), Chris Vernon (good), and Joe House (not as terrible as he used to be). Maybe I'll just skip his parts.
I was listening to his recent podcast with Ben today. At one point, Sharp (helpfully!) went into an explanation of what 12 personnel means. However, I don't think the dude took a single breath for about five minutes while doing it and it sounded like he was speaking at 1.5x speed. He needs to take it down a notch. Ben discusses equally 'complex' concepts, but does it in a way where you can almost hear the grin on his face and he speaks at a normal pace.

I really, really enjoy Ben. He's becoming the KOC football equivalent for me. He'll be a star if Bill pushes him.
 

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It's crazy how many movies I assume MUST be a "Rewatchable" already but aren't. Like Mission Impossible and The Replacements. I saw those recently and thought "Ok, now I have to listen to the Rewatchables on this" but they haven't done them yet.
It is killing me that they have still not done Aliens. I know it is probably a bridge too far for Simmons. They have mentioned it a few times in some more recent podcasts and it feels like such a tease to me. I assume that while Bill is OK with time traveling Cyborgs, he probably draws the line at star spanning space movies, regardless of a cast full of James Cameron's stable of action guys, along with Paul Reiser to boot.

They could have Chris, Van, and Shea do that episode, and it would be epic.
 

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I was listening to his recent podcast with Ben today. At one point, Sharp (helpfully!) went into an explanation of what 12 personnel means. However, I don't think the dude took a single breath for about five minutes while doing it and it sounded like he was speaking at 1.5x speed. He needs to take it down a notch. Ben discusses equally 'complex' concepts, but does it in a way where you can almost hear the grin on his face and he speaks at a normal pace.

I really, really enjoy Ben. He's becoming the KOC football equivalent for me. He'll be a star if Bill pushes him.
I enjoyed the podcast, but I listen to most podcasts at 1.5x and I had to set this one to 1.1x. It was good at that speed.

I had never heard either of them before, but I got more out of Ben's stuff than Sharp's.
 

Leather

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I'm always curious when Simmons isn't on a Rewatchables episode. Given how much he seems to love doing them, I always suspect that it's because he doesn't "get" a movie but grudgingly allows Chris Ryan do it because Ryan likes the movie so much. Which then makes me wonder why he doesn't like Trainspotting. And even if he doesn't like...it would be fun to have him on (maybe just for 10 minutes or so) and play devil's advocate as to why he's not wild about the movie!
 

B H Kim

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Heard on a podcast today that Joanna Robinson, pop culture/tv writer and podcaster, is leaving Vanity Fair to podcast and write for the Ringer. I just finished up a complete Lost rewatch she did on her Storm podcast with Neil Miler and Dave Gonzalez. I really enjoyed that podcast and I’m happy that all of three of them will apparently be doing a podcast together on the Ringer. She also said that she would be doing several podcasts a week with Mallory Rubin and others.
 

shlincoln

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Dang, that's quite a get for The Ringer. Considering she has a book about the history of Marvel Studios coming out I'm pretty sure she's going to be added to the Ringerverse stable.
 

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I'm always curious when Simmons isn't on a Rewatchables episode. Given how much he seems to love doing them, I always suspect that it's because he doesn't "get" a movie but grudgingly allows Chris Ryan do it because Ryan likes the movie so much. Which then makes me wonder why he doesn't like Trainspotting. And even if he doesn't like...it would be fun to have him on (maybe just for 10 minutes or so) and play devil's advocate as to why he's not wild about the movie!
It would be interesting. He has a pretty limited range of movies he likes--modern comedies, conventional dramas, and some crime oriented action films. Can't find the quote, think it was in a mailbag year ago, but he said something like i don't like being in the forest like lord of the rings or in anything to old, i want to be able to imagine that i'm the main character.

Now I don't think i've ever really imagined myself as the main character in a movie, at least not in a very long time. But i found the statement shows that Bill has both a very narrow imagination (why couldn't you imagine yourself in master and commander or spiderman?) and, simultaneously, a very rich imagination (wait it's easy to see yourself as Michael Corleone, Dirk Diggler or Teen Wolf?)
 

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Dang, that's quite a get for The Ringer. Considering she has a book about the history of Marvel Studios coming out I'm pretty sure she's going to be added to the Ringerverse stable.
She has already done some great work with Mallory in the Loki Ringerverse episodes. She knows a LOT about Marvel. Like, a Mallory level of knowledge.

Definitely a solid get.
 

Cellar-Door

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It would be interesting. He has a pretty limited range of movies he likes--modern comedies, conventional dramas, and some crime oriented action films. Can't find the quote, think it was in a mailbag year ago, but he said something like i don't like being in the forest like lord of the rings or in anything to old, i want to be able to imagine that i'm the main character.

Now I don't think i've ever really imagined myself as the main character in a movie, at least not in a very long time. But i found the statement shows that Bill has both a very narrow imagination (why couldn't you imagine yourself in master and commander or spiderman?) and, simultaneously, a very rich imagination (wait it's easy to see yourself as Michael Corleone, Dirk Diggler or Teen Wolf?)
I mean 2 massive narcissists and a teenager who wants to be popular but feels he's underappreciated... uh yeah I can see Bill's path in.
 

ernieshore

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The Trainspotting Rewatchables with Greenwald and Ryan was a trip down memory lane that hit very close to home for this anglophile. Just like they said, the movie and the book became a lead into so much other music, literature, and even fashion and slang that became a huge part of my life. Some of that already was because I had studied abroad in London, but Trainspotting made the bands I was listening to and books that I were reading...cool. Then I went to live in London right as Cool Britannia was at its peak, so I was able to fit in pretty easily and dive even deeper into the drum and bass and electronic scene there (and not heroin). Heck - I even went to a Hearts v Hibs match.

I really enjoyed the episode. And while I usually like even dumb Simmons on all episodes, I was glad he wasn’t on this one because it was so personal to me and he may have ruined it.
 

ifmanis5

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The Trainspotting Rewatchables with Greenwald and Ryan was a trip down memory lane that hit very close to home for this anglophile. Just like they said, the movie and the book became a lead into so much other music, literature, and even fashion and slang that became a huge part of my life. Some of that already was because I had studied abroad in London, but Trainspotting made the bands I was listening to and books that I were reading...cool. Then I went to live in London right as Cool Britannia was at its peak, so I was able to fit in pretty easily and dive even deeper into the drum and bass and electronic scene there (and not heroin). Heck - I even went to a Hearts v Hibs match.

I really enjoyed the episode. And while I usually like even dumb Simmons on all episodes, I was glad he wasn’t on this one because it was so personal to me and he may have ruined it.
Totally, I feel exactly the same. Greenwald's story about watching soccer with Scottish fans routing against England was very relatable. His accent was very good too. Great episode that Bill would have ruined.
 

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God, Jay Caspian Kang was absolutely insufferable on the REM episode of 60 Songs That Explain the 90s. I don't particularly care for REM (I do love Nightswimming though to be fair), and ragging on art/pop culture you don't care for is a tradition as old as time...but his shtick was old 15 seconds in. I thought "caring is stupid" as a genre of humor rightfully died before the 2010s.
 

Bunt4aTriple

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God, Jay Caspian Kang was absolutely insufferable on the REM episode of 60 Songs That Explain the 90s. I don't particularly care for REM (I do love Nightswimming though to be fair), and ragging on art/pop culture you don't care for is a tradition as old as time...but his shtick was old 15 seconds in. I thought "caring is stupid" as a genre of humor rightfully died before the 2010s.
I was halfway through the pod when I read this, but I came away with the opposite take. I, too, never really embraced REM, although if I had ever heard nightswimming previously, I don't recall. I though Kang was a nice counter balance to Rob's fawning and it was absolutely by design. If there's one through-line in this pod, it's that Rob loves to point out, then take a dump on, his youthful earnestness. I enjoy his mixing up of the guests to include both fans and haters.

I also don't regularly go in for dumping all over artists, but I think Michael Stipe's/REM's (surface-level, anyway; I haven't dug in enough to discover any nuance) humorlessness is one reason they never did it for me.
 

Leather

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The Trainspotting Rewatchables with Greenwald and Ryan was a trip down memory lane that hit very close to home for this anglophile. Just like they said, the movie and the book became a lead into so much other music, literature, and even fashion and slang that became a huge part of my life. Some of that already was because I had studied abroad in London, but Trainspotting made the bands I was listening to and books that I were reading...cool. Then I went to live in London right as Cool Britannia was at its peak, so I was able to fit in pretty easily and dive even deeper into the drum and bass and electronic scene there (and not heroin). Heck - I even went to a Hearts v Hibs match.

I really enjoyed the episode. And while I usually like even dumb Simmons on all episodes, I was glad he wasn’t on this one because it was so personal to me and he may have ruined it.
Maybe you're right. I thought the discussion of the marketing budget being proportionally massive compared to the film budget was really interesting, and (I was 17 when it came out) rang true. Those orange and gray posters were everywhere, second only to Pulp Fiction in terms of ubiquity on high school and college bedroom walls. And I've always loved the movie. But that's an area where Simmons (who would have been...what? 27 or so when it came out?) probably missed out on and wouldn't have much to contribute. I'm also not sure he would be a fan of Boyle or McGregor given the types of movies they both are known for. But it would be interesting for him to watch, say, "Sunshine" and see what he thought. Maybe he'd like it!

He's an odd duck sometimes. I was listening to "The Game" rewatchables, and Ryan makes a broad comment on how The Game, and many movies like it from the early-mid 90s, simply could not have been made even 5-10 years later because they wouldn't make sense with the advent of Google. The Game wouldn't work because Michael Douglas' character could just look all the shit up on his phone and there would be no sense of mystery or terror. This is hardly a revolutionary concept, but Ryan spends probably 3 minutes kind of hashing it out and being very clear about what he means. And then Simmons says "Yeah, like the Blair Witch Project. Kids could just google that now and see it was fake." That's not at all what Ryan was talking about.
 

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I was halfway through the pod when I read this, but I came away with the opposite take. I, too, never really embraced REM, although if I had ever heard nightswimming previously, I don't recall. I though Kang was a nice counter balance to Rob's fawning and it was absolutely by design. If there's one through-line in this pod, it's that Rob loves to point out, then take a dump on, his youthful earnestness. I enjoy his mixing up of the guests to include both fans and haters.

I also don't regularly go in for dumping all over artists, but I think Michael Stipe's/REM's (surface-level, anyway; I haven't dug in enough to discover any nuance) humorlessness is one reason they never did it for me.
R.E.M. definitely had a sense of humor. "The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonite" is on the same album as "Nightswimming."

I haven't listened to the pod yet, but if Kang shits all over "Nightswimming" then fuck him. It's a gorgeous song. Overly sentimental, sure - but it's flat-out beautiful.

Surprised Harvilla didn't go with "Losing My Religion." I figured that'd be the one.
 

Leather

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R.E.M. definitely had a sense of humor. "The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonite" is on the same album as "Nightswimming."

I haven't listened to the pod yet, but if Kang shits all over "Nightswimming" then fuck him. It's a gorgeous song. Overly sentimental, sure - but it's flat-out beautiful.

Surprised Harvilla didn't go with "Losing My Religion." I figured that'd be the one.
I mean, "Stand" and "Shiny Happy People" are ridiculous (in a good way, I think) pieces of music.

But I get it, I mean...Stipe definitely has a sense of humor, but it's very dry and often snide. Like "Crush With Eyeliner" is about a scenester who's so obsessed with ephemeral image that they've forgotten who they are. Which is funny, in a weird sort of way.
 

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I was halfway through the pod when I read this, but I came away with the opposite take. I, too, never really embraced REM, although if I had ever heard nightswimming previously, I don't recall. I though Kang was a nice counter balance to Rob's fawning and it was absolutely by design. If there's one through-line in this pod, it's that Rob loves to point out, then take a dump on, his youthful earnestness. I enjoy his mixing up of the guests to include both fans and haters.

I also don't regularly go in for dumping all over artists, but I think Michael Stipe's/REM's (surface-level, anyway; I haven't dug in enough to discover any nuance) humorlessness is one reason they never did it for me.
I adore REM. Feel really bummed I never saw them perform for reasons I can't understand (they actually played at the hockey rink when I was in college, but guess I was too busy doing I have no idea what). And while I can't disagree that Michael Stipe seems like an especially unpleasant and arrogant guy, a.) he sure as hell is talented, and b.) the other three guys in the band seem totally delightful.

I rarely listen to the second half of the 60 Songs podcast -- I'm satisfied with Harvilla's half, and then I usually start digging into the songs and bands he reminds me of right away. [A propos of REM, the B-52s were an utterly awesome way to spend the next half-hour or so.]

Humblebrag: I've got a credit (well, a "Special Thanks") on the really fun "REM on MTV" documentary I'll assume is available somewhere on Paramount+.
 

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I adore REM. Feel really bummed I never saw them perform for reasons I can't understand (they actually played at the hockey rink when I was in college, but guess I was too busy doing I have no idea what).
That was a great show, although I remember it as being in the indoor tennis center. Hüsker Dü opened for them.
 

HoyaSoxa

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Totally, I feel exactly the same. Greenwald's story about watching soccer with Scottish fans routing against England was very relatable. His accent was very good too. Great episode that Bill would have ruined.
Andy's Scottish accent was really impressive. Either his high school exchange program really stuck with him, or he picked up some grrreat pointers from working with Alan Cumming. I spent a year studying in Dublin and my Irish accent never improved beyond laughably bad.
 

CaptainLaddie

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It's an all-time favorite movie of mine and the podcast did it a pretty good service. I was pleasantly surprised, particularly by Fennessey's enthusiasm.
Okay, that was fantastic. I do wish they mentioned the line my sister and I quote at each other to this day to shut the other one up -- "Here's your two dollars!" -- but it's clear both guys genuinely love the movie.
 

luckiestman

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Okay, that was fantastic. I do wish they mentioned the line my sister and I quote at each other to this day to shut the other one up -- "Here's your two dollars!" -- but it's clear both guys genuinely love the movie.
I posted this in the Norm thread:


Rewatchables did Dirty Work and Fennessey missed an opportunity. He told the story about Artie Lange getting reviewed where the reviewer stated Artie had the charisma of a date rapist. He ended the story there. Here is the story told by Artie:

"I was in five movies that got a total of four stars from The Daily News. And the reviews of "Beer League" were nothing compared to "Dirty Work." The review in my home town paper, The Star Ledger, said that I "had all the charm of a date rapist." I felt really bad about that, then Norm MacDonald; he's trying to cheer me up, being totally serious; says "well, a date rapist has to have way more charm than a regular rapist!""
 

Marciano490

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I posted this in the Norm thread:


Rewatchables did Dirty Work and Fennessey missed an opportunity. He told the story about Artie Lange getting reviewed where the reviewer stated Artie had the charisma of a date rapist. He ended the story there. Here is the story told by Artie:

"I was in five movies that got a total of four stars from The Daily News. And the reviews of "Beer League" were nothing compared to "Dirty Work." The review in my home town paper, The Star Ledger, said that I "had all the charm of a date rapist." I felt really bad about that, then Norm MacDonald; he's trying to cheer me up, being totally serious; says "well, a date rapist has to have way more charm than a regular rapist!""
Reallllllly getting your money’s worth out of this one.
 

ManicCompression

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Okay, that was fantastic. I do wish they mentioned the line my sister and I quote at each other to this day to shut the other one up -- "Here's your two dollars!" -- but it's clear both guys genuinely love the movie.
My wife and I said the same thing (that line is our WiFi password). There were some other notable parts that were left out and worth discussing:
- What the hell was going on with the costuming in that movie? Did Norm and Artie trade clothes before every scene?
- The Rickles scene ("You have the personality of a dead moth") took 99 takes (or something absurd like that) because Norm kept laughing
- Christopher McDonald
- The impossible task of Traylor Howard forming chemistry with Norm MacDonald (also Traylor Howard getting her start as the love interest on Boston Common, which should have been a layup for Bill)
- "Hello, real cops?" and "It's me... Neal."

Honestly, they could've just re-read the whole movie and still missed unforgettable lines. I'm not sure we'll ever see another comedy more hostile to the art itself.
 

luckiestman

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I love your wife.

The line my wife and I quote to each other when we want to get out of a conversation is from The Simpsons. "I'm not gonna lie to you.... so long!"
Our code if one of us is in trouble is to tell the other “the Patriots Rule” cause I know something is fucked if I say or hear my wife say that.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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R.E.M. definitely had a sense of humor. "The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonite" is on the same album as "Nightswimming."

I haven't listened to the pod yet, but if Kang shits all over "Nightswimming" then fuck him. It's a gorgeous song. Overly sentimental, sure - but it's flat-out beautiful.

Surprised Harvilla didn't go with "Losing My Religion." I figured that'd be the one.
Kang shat more on the band's music as a whole if I recall from the episode. However even as a fan to have Kang as a guest is funny to me because it's on brand for how R.E.M. was perceived by my peer group in high school. Besides Stipe exuding fervent "anti-frontman" vibes, it feels like their timing was perfect not to hit the peak other alternative bands hit. R.E.M. ironically helped drive the more underground "alternative rock" movement through the 80s and into the 90s, then hit their popular peak of Losing My Religion just as grunge was taking the country by storm and changing the sound of the most popular alternative music. Finally with 'Monster' and 'New Adventures in Hi-Fi' my peers (in college at that time) were coming around to the band probably more out of nostalgia, while the band was starting their slow descent from relevance.
 

luckiestman

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Here is the quote:

Well, absolutely. There was so much. When I went to college, I bought REM’s Eponymous album and I was so embarrassed that I had bought it that I wouldn’t put it with my other CDs. I hid it because I had this association of what the kind of person who was into REM was like and what it meant to be into REM. Well, of course, now REM has become one of my favorite bands, it’s like I think that it seems strange to me to be into music for its coolness outside of high school. That seems like that’s the only time when you’re a young person and you’re using art basically to create a personality because you don’t have a real personality yet.
 

Leather

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This reminds me that Klosterman said in some podcast that he hid his REM CDs
When/where I was in high school (mid 90s) there was a definite a vibe that REM was music that arty kids and smart girls listened to. you weren't going to hear REM blasting at football practice. Among people who really listened to music and could talk Beatles vs Stones and Dylan, REM was always respected as one of the good current bands.

Really though, the fading of REM as a mega act was just inevitable backlash that happens to all bands that reach a certain level and then get Wally Pipped by a newer take on music. It becomes your older brother/sisters music and not yours and your friends’, and REM had been around long enough that it was their turn. I don't think REM really cared (Peter Buck is content to play rhythm guitar for his buddy in a club), but it also must have been a little perplexing. The good/bad of fame is a theme on both Monster and New Adventures in Hi Fi.
 

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When/where I was in high school (mid 90s) there was a definite a vibe that REM was music that arty kids and smart girls listened to. you weren't going to hear REM blasting at football practice. Among people who really listened to music and could talk Beatles vs Stones and Dylan, REM was always respected as one of the good current bands.

Really though, the fading of REM as a mega act was just inevitable backlash that happens to all bands that reach a certain level and then get Wally Pipped by a newer take on music. It becomes your older brother/sisters music and not yours and your friends’, and REM had been around long enough that it was their turn. I don't think REM really cared (Peter Buck is content to play rhythm guitar for his buddy in a club), but it also must have been a little perplexing. The good/bad of fame is a theme on both Monster and New Adventures in Hi Fi.
They didn't survive the movement from "college rock" to "alt rock" with their rep intact, unlike the Pixies.
 

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They didn't survive the movement from "college rock" to "alt rock" with their rep intact, unlike the Pixies.
And the Pixies got to enjoy that rep for, what, a year or two before they broke up?

I guess it depends on when you think they made the jump from "college rock" to "alt rock."
 

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And the Pixies got to enjoy that rep for, what, a year or two before they broke up?

I guess it depends on when you think they made the jump from "college rock" to "alt rock."
Yeah, it didn't do them much good in those terms. But REM was a college rock staple. Once Alt rock hit, they just didn't fit that mold as well. Monster certainly tried, but I could just never think of them as a distorted rock band. The Pixies fit into that, so Alt rock fans were more than happy to buy their albums and sing their praise. REM still had a lot of commercial success, but they weren't that same type of cool any more, even if Cobain said great things about both bands all the time.
 

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And the Pixies got to enjoy that rep for, what, a year or two before they broke up?

I guess it depends on when you think they made the jump from "college rock" to "alt rock."
It's when they went from IRS to Warner Brothers and "sold out," man - the great Generation X sin. And then Green was poppy with Orange Crush and Stand and the hipsters abandoned them. For my part, I loved Green (particularly the Untitled track at the end of Side 2), Out of Time and Automatic for the People before my interest slowly waned. But when I listen to them now, I generally end up going back to Murmur and Reckoning.

Edit: Forgot about Monster. I liked that too, so I guess my interest began to wane after that.
 

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It's when they went from IRS to Warner Brothers and "sold out," man - the great Generation X sin. And then Green was poppy with Orange Crush and Stand and the hipsters abandoned them. For my part, I loved Green (particularly the Untitled track at the end of Side 2), Out of Time and Automatic for the People before my interest slowly waned. But when I listen to them now, I generally end up going back to Murmur and Reckoning.

Edit: Forgot about Monster. I liked that too, so I guess my interest began to wane after that.
Sorry - I was talking about the Pixies. R.E.M.'s move to Warner Brothers was clearly their "sell out" moment, yeah. Hell, some REALLY early fans of the band think they "sold out" when Stipe's vocals became decipherable.

Warner Brothers era R.E.M. is just uneven. I don't really think there's a perfect album in the lot, though Automatic for the People comes the closest. For the most part, they're alright albums that are prevented from being truly great by a handful of songs. "Radio Song" and "Shiny Happy People" fucking suck. But "Losing My Religion" and "Country Feedback" are incredible.
 

jmcc5400

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Sorry - I was talking about the Pixies. R.E.M.'s move to Warner Brothers was clearly their "sell out" moment, yeah. Hell, some REALLY early fans of the band think they "sold out" when Stipe's vocals became decipherable.

Warner Brothers era R.E.M. is just uneven. I don't really think there's a perfect album in the lot, though Automatic for the People comes the closest. For the most part, they're alright albums that are prevented from being truly great by a handful of songs. "Radio Song" and "Shiny Happy People" fucking suck. But "Losing My Religion" and "Country Feedback" are incredible.
Yeah, I think the run from Half a World Away to Me in Honey at the end of Out of Time is gorgeous. But Radio Song, Shiny Happy People and Endgame are skips.
 

ernieshore

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New Adventures was a nice surprise to me. I really like that album - and as I remember, I had no idea it was coming out until it was released. And I never listened to Up and Reveal much when they were released, but they are albums I play now quite a bit when I am working.

I've seen Peter Buck and Mike Mills a few times live with some of their side projects (and one reunion benefit with Bill Berry) -- it's been neat to see them doing whatever they want off the radar. Talked with Mills for a bit once and he was very nice. I only saw the full R.E.M. band once* and that was during the Monster tour and I was disappointed, so those experiences have given me a nice wrap-up to my lifelong fandom.

(* screw the guy in high school who didn't get me tickets to the Life's Rich Pagent tour, as he promised me).
 

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This is obviously strictly imo, but Document to New Adventures in Hi-Fi is peak REM, and they never were quite able to recover from Berry leaving the band. Though, there is some good stuff on their last two albums.
 

pjheff

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This is obviously strictly imo, but Document to New Adventures in Hi-Fi is peak REM, and they never were quite able to recover from Berry leaving the band. Though, there is some good stuff on their last two albums.
That was definitely the peak of their success, but strictly imo not their creative peak which for me was Reckoning. Someone once linked a great article here about the band‘s evolution being essentially Michael Stype’s development from an introverted art student to the front man for the greatest rock band in the world. Once they reached that point, they really had nowhere left to go, and unlike the Pixies who broke up or other bands who suffered a tragic loss, they continued on long enough to violate so many of the tenets that made them great (not starring in their videos, not lip syncing, not writing odious love songs, and not continuing without one of the core members of the band). They went from a band whose CD’s I’d purchase on release day to one whose last several offerings I never bought at all.
 

ifmanis5

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Sep 29, 2007
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Rotten Apple
This is obviously strictly imo, but Document to New Adventures in Hi-Fi is peak REM, and they never were quite able to recover from Berry leaving the band. Though, there is some good stuff on their last two albums.
Agreed about the Berry problem. He's lucky to be alive but yes, they were never the same when he decided to be a farmer.
For me, the peak will always be the first EP to Pageant. Nothing quite clicked for me as much after that even though World Leader Pretend is one of my favorites.
As far as alternative cred they are at the very top, especially since Yorke and Cobain worshipped Stipe. They are absolutely Alternative Royalty.
And even tough I'm a huge Pixies shill they're the ones who look like clowns. They are nothing without Kim Deal and all their new material without her is laughably bad.
 

Shelterdog

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Feb 19, 2002
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New York City
Agreed about the Berry problem. He's lucky to be alive but yes, they were never the same when he decided to be a farmer.
For me, the peak will always be the first EP to Pageant. Nothing quite clicked for me as much after that even though World Leader Pretend is one of my favorites.
As far as alternative cred they are at the very top, especially since Yorke and Cobain worshipped Stipe. They are absolutely Alternative Royalty.
And even tough I'm a huge Pixies shill they're the ones who look like clowns. They are nothing without Kim Deal and all their new material without her is laughably bad.
oh shit ifmanis5 just sent a fucking monkey to heaven with that burn on the pixies. Dropped a Cannonball right on them
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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I didn’t know if I was going to like the Re Departed but it was great. Has a bit of a Bridge Over Troubled Water vibe in that it just keeps getting better and then builds to its best part just as it ends.
 

Spelunker

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Jul 17, 2005
7,786
I didn’t know if I was going to like the Re Departed but it was great. Has a bit of a Bridge Over Troubled Water vibe in that it just keeps getting better and then builds to its best part just as it ends.
As always, Bill shows how little he knows about Boston. His whole "that's definitely New York, there are no streets like that in Boston" take on the post-porno theater chase through Chinatown is laughable: he apparently has never been to Boston's Chinatown.