The 2018 NBA Draft

Cesar Crespo

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I watched Petrovic live as well and I agree with Kid T's assessment. He wasn't that well rounded.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I watched him live - he was a SG with a deadly outside shot. He wasn't an incredible defender, rebounder, or distributor.

But here is a scouting report: http://www.nba.com/history/players/petrovic_bio.html



As for Doncic: http://fansided.com/2016/07/26/luka-doncic-scouting-report-real-madrid/




Your posts lack substance and thought - try doing some research and stop with the lazy comparisons.
Petrovic was an excellent distributor from the 2 as well to being as great a 3-point shooter who ever played the game. What he lacked in natural defensive ability he made up for with effort, energy, and instincts. I feel you are REALLY underrated Drazen.....I lean toward Big John on the evauluation.

Doncic appears to defer much more (the Kukoc comp) and is flashier (the Pistol Pete comp) off the dribble than Drazen was though.
 

DJnVa

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The scouting report on Doncic to which you refer is dated. Watch some film of him this year with Real Madrid. As for Petrovic, I watched him live too. He could do it all.
He averaged under 2.5 rebound and 2.5 assists for his career. Maybe he *could* do it all, but he didn't do it all in the NBA.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He averaged under 2.5 rebound and 2.5 assists for his career. Maybe he *could* do it all, but he didn't do it all in the NBA.
Half of Petrovic's total "Games Played" were in his first two seasons when he averaged 14 mpg so using per game averages really isn't a fair gauge. He certainly wasn't a great rebounder but this is the first time I've ever heard Drazen discussed as a one-dimensional offensive player.
 

smastroyin

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Who knows what Petrovic would have been with more time? It did seem to take him a while to get into the swing of the NBA, and then he was killed in the accident. If he'd been able to play until his mid-30's instead of 28 would we have a different recollection?
 

nighthob

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Half of Petrovic's total "Games Played" were in his first two seasons when he averaged 14 mpg so using per game averages really isn't a fair gauge. He certainly wasn't a great rebounder but this is the first time I've ever heard Drazen discussed as a one-dimensional offensive player.
I think the Pistol Pete comparisons are apt for Doncic, but the Petrovic ones don't really move me.
 

Koufax

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Oh my, Pistol Pete? Please make it happen!
 

nighthob

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He's a poor man's version, but he has that same sort of vision and creativity.
 

snowmanny

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Pistol Pete was a .667 3P shooter so sign me up.

(10-15)

Digression: actually the Celtics team that was in training camp in 1980 -i.e. the championship team plus Maravich and Cowens - -would be an interesting match for the GSW if you told Bird and Maravich to go ahead and let it fly.

Edit:

Bird Parish Cowens
Maxwell Robey McHale

Archibald Carr
Maravich Ford
Henderson
 
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reggiecleveland

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Petrovic was also a legendary competitor. It is no knock on anybody to say they may not have his desire or fire. What Doncic is doing in that league is crazy for kid that age.

It is really hard to scout perimeter guys across leagues, levels. A guy moves up a level and sometimes a part of his game disappears, there are just things he can no longer do. The unknown for Doncic for me is athleticism. If he can't blow by NBA guards he may be limited, if he can well now we have something special. Will he get more hops with age, or develop an between repertoire of runners to allow him to finish in the key? These are questions that can only be answered when he faces some of these players. But that's man's league, tough to imagine he won't be something.
 

BuellMiller

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Pistol Pete was a .667 3P shooter so sign me up.

(10-15)

Digression: actually the Celtics team that was in training camp in 1980 -i.e. the championship team plus Maravich and Cowens - -would be an interesting match for the GSW if you told Bird and Maravich to go ahead and let it fly.

Edit:

Bird Parish Cowens
Maxwell Robey McHale

Archibald Carr
Maravich Ford
Henderson

Not to digress even more, but I was looking at bbref recently, and noticed Bird's 3pt% by season. His rookie season, he hit from 40.6% (58-143), but then the next four seasons he was Marcus Smart-like (.270, .212, .286, .247), before going back up over 40% for the next four seasons. Anyone know what happened?
 

smastroyin

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Maybe Bill Fitch told him to stop shooting them? His attempts were way down too.
 

Kliq

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Maybe Bill Fitch told him to stop shooting them? His attempts were way down too.
The thing about three point shooting in that era is that guys mostly took them when the shot clock was running down or they needed to make a comeback. There were not many plays drawn up to specifically get a three point look and the rule was that if you were open on the perimeter and had nobody within ten feet of you, you dribbled in and took the shorter shot. Whenever someone's attempts and percentage go down like that, for that era it's usually the case.
 

DJnVa

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It would be interesting to know why Bird made 58 as a rookie, but only 71 total the next 4 seasons.
 
Here is a decent article about the evolution of the three pointer and how it was viewed early on...

Red Auerbach was not a fan of what he considered this gimmick, this novelty, this attempt to bring the carnival to the highest level of basketball. “We don’t need it,” Auerbach huffed then. “I say leave our game alone.”

The idea of awarding three points to shots made beyond an arch stretching 23 feet, nine inches from the rim and 22 feet from the corners was unnecessary, Auerbach believed. And he was not alone in believing this was some sort of publicity stunt. “I think all of us thought it was,” said Larry Bird, of all people, in hindsight.

“It’s strange when you think back,” Bird said. “I can’t remember even practicing the shot, unless it was for the contest. I really didn’t take that many, compared to today. I would take it if we were one or two points down and only if I was open from that distance. We only had one guy, Chris Ford, who you could say was a designated shooter from that distance. Nate Archibald never shot it. We never took the shot to the extreme. [Coach] K.C. Jones was saying we took too many.

“I was never really big on it. But when you made the shot, the fans would go crazy and it was demoralizing. I’ve changed my thoughts about it.”
 

Devizier

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Brent Barry comes to mind as a guy who had a lot of non-shooting skills but found his niche as a sharpshooter in the NBA.
 

nighthob

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Calvin Murphy carved out an under the radar career as the NBA's most prolific volume shooter. He put Shawn Kemp and Jason Caffey to shame.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Petrovic was also a legendary competitor. It is no knock on anybody to say they may not have his desire or fire. What Doncic is doing in that league is crazy for kid that age.

It is really hard to scout perimeter guys across leagues, levels. A guy moves up a level and sometimes a part of his game disappears, there are just things he can no longer do. The unknown for Doncic for me is athleticism. If he can't blow by NBA guards he may be limited, if he can well now we have something special. Will he get more hops with age, or develop an between repertoire of runners to allow him to finish in the key? These are questions that can only be answered when he faces some of these players. But that's man's league, tough to imagine he won't be something.
The thing about Doncic is that he isn't a blow-by guard.....just as Fultz and Ball are not either. All 3 play a controlled high IQ game. In the case of Ball and Doncic they look to distribute first whereas Fultz also does but he uses his dribble primarily for separation to free up his lethal jumper.

Did anyone see Doncic against OKC and Westbrook last pre-season when he was 17? Granted it was a pre-season game but he was isolated on Westbrook once that I recall, kept him from penetrating with excellent positional defense and footwork, while being quick and long enough to contest his step back jumper. Doncic didn't score much in that game but was very active with a ton of assists and rebounds. This was also prior to the season and he looked to me that he's gained some quickness but again that could be an eye-trick based on perimeter athletes he's competing against.
 

reggiecleveland

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In the highlights he is going by guys in transition a lot. He is turning the corner in the half court. If those things are harder to do, or taken away it changes his effectiveness a lot.
 

djbayko

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I mentioned this late in a game thread several days ago, but just wanted to repeat here that I've been watching YouTubes of the 2018 prospects named in this thread lately. And OMG am I in love with Ayton more than anyone else. He looks like he has raw Olajuwon-like skills but with a perimeter game. And he's already begun to physically fill out his frame, which is rare for a 7-footer in high school.

Please, Nets, please do your job!

Also, I think it might be interesting to continue our brief discussion in the game thread here, regarding possible prospects (HS juniors) who might be added to the 2018 draft pool if Silver scratches the 1-and-done rule this season.

I am NOT on that Bol Bol train, despite the outstanding name.
 

BigSoxFan

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I mentioned this late in a game thread several days ago, but just wanted to repeat here that I've been watching YouTubes of the 2018 prospects named in this thread lately. And OMG am I in love with Ayton more than anyone else. He looks like he has raw Olajuwon-like skills but with a perimeter game. And he's already begun to physically fill out his frame, which is rare for a 7-footer in high school.

Please, Nets, please do your job!

Also, I think it might be interesting to continue our brief discussion in the game thread here, regarding possible prospects (HS juniors) who might be added to the 2018 draft pool if Silver scratches the 1-and-done rule this season.

I am NOT on that Bol Bol train, despite the outstanding name.
I'm fully on Team Ayton as well. Full credit to nighthob for being an early adopter. I think he fits what this team needs like a glove. Of course, I'd also be fine with "settling" for Doncic, Porter, or Bamba.
 

HomeRunBaker

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In the highlights he is going by guys in transition a lot. He is turning the corner in the half court. If those things are harder to do, or taken away it changes his effectiveness a lot.
Exactly. The good thing is as essentially a HS Junior or Senior he was able to do this at times against NBA players.
 

Devizier

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I don't see how you guys get anything from watching HS basketball. The physical mismatches created by NBA prospects (especially bigs) are absurd. Seems harder to read than summer league ball.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don't see how you guys get anything from watching HS basketball. The physical mismatches created by NBA prospects (especially bigs) are absurd. Seems harder to read than summer league ball.
It's why a lot of these guys end up being considered disappointments as college freshman. At the very least, they lose a lot of their prospect shine the minute they play college ball.
 

djbayko

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I don't see how you guys get anything from watching HS basketball. The physical mismatches created by NBA prospects (especially bigs) are absurd. Seems harder to read than summer league ball.
Personally, I'm focusing on his actual skills in a vacuum as much as possible, and not so much how he performs relative to the players around him. Obviously, it's not as impressive for a 7 footer to be swatting HS kids half his size or blowing by others who haven't reached puberty yet, but you can still see how much athletic ability and polish they have. No, it's not perfect. Still, I don't know how you can watch a video of Ayton dribbling, shooting threes, putting a soft touch on turn around jump hooks, rebounding, and dunking and not be excited by what you see.

Luckily we get to see this batch for one more year, at least.
 
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BigSoxFan

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Personally, I'm focusing on his actual skills in a vacuum as much as possible, and not so much how he performs relative to the players around him. Obviously, it's not as impressive for a 7 footer to be swatting HS kids half his size or blowing by others who haven't reached puberty yet, but you can still see how much athletic ability and polish they have. No, it's not perfect. Still, I don't know how you can watch a video of Ayton dribbling, shooting threes, putting a soft touch on turn around jump hooks, rebounding, and dunking and not be excited by what you see.

Luckily we get to see this batch for one more year, at least.
Additionally, a lot of the top HS teams play each other nowadays so we've already gotten to see Ayton vs. Bamba, for instance. Clearly, you don't gain much by watching Ayton vs. teams whose center is 6'5 but he has shown his skills against some legit talent already.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Personally, I'm focusing on his actual skills in a vacuum as much as possible, and not so much how he performs relative to the players around him. Obviously, it's not as impressive for a 7 footer to be swatting HS kids half his size or blowing by others who haven't reached puberty yet, but you can still see how much athletic ability and polish they have. No, it's not perfect. Still, I don't know how you can watch a video of Ayton dribbling, shooting threes, putting a soft touch on turn around jump hooks, rebounding, and dunking and not be excited by what you see.

Luckily we get to see this batch for one more year, at least.
This.

I scout foreign players the same way.
 

BaseballJones

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Surprised this thread hasn't been bumped yet considering the turn of events we seem to be in the middle of.

To me, the 2018 draft just got a LOT more interesting, assuming the Celtics hold on to that LAL pick that could end up in the 2-5 range.

As of this moment, assuming the trade goes through, the Celtics could be looking at Brooklyn's #1 (and they will be awful, so that should be a top 3 pick), LAL #1 (which could be anywhere from 2-5), and the Celtics' own #1.
 

Cesar Crespo

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How awesome would it be to end up with the #1 and #2 pick in the 2018 draft if the NBA gets rid of the one and done rule? Now see if you can trade Avery Bradley to NO for their 1st round pick and take a gamble there too. Of course they would require protection but maybe they would bite on 3-7 protection.

Has a team ever had the first 2 picks in the NBA draft? I'm guessing it's moot since they are probably trading the LAL/Kings pick anyway.
 
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Baby Got Daubach

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Has a team ever had the first 2 picks in the NBA draft? I'm guessing it's moot since they are probably trading the LAL/Kings pick anyway.
I don't think #1/#2, but the Bulls did have #2/#3 and went Tyson Chandler/Eddy Curry. Hopefully this would work out better than that did.
 

nighthob

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If they kill the one and done rule this summer, Boston could end up with 4/5 and walk away better than the Bulls that year. Marvin Bagley and Zion Williamson would be a pretty big haul for a veteran team.
 

BigSoxFan

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I've only seen YouTube clips of Zion. What are peoples' thoughts on him? He's such a unique player in that he has great athleticism but his lower body is so thick. It's like he's Rodney Rogers with LeBron's explosiveness. His jump shot seemed decent enough but I wasn't able to get a good sense of his defense outside of weak side shot blocking and no idea on his passing. However, the raw athleticism and tenacity is incredibly intriguing. Just not sure what he ultimately is at the NBA level.
 

nighthob

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He's one of those guys that I think would excel on a vet team, where he was forced to fight for his minutes. I think that like Kawhi he would be able to round out his game in the shadows while other guys absorbed the heat. On a typical lottery team I'd be a lot more unsure about his hitting his ceiling.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I've only seen YouTube clips of Zion. What are peoples' thoughts on him? He's such a unique player in that he has great athleticism but his lower body is so thick. It's like he's Rodney Rogers with LeBron's explosiveness. His jump shot seemed decent enough but I wasn't able to get a good sense of his defense outside of weak side shot blocking and no idea on his passing. However, the raw athleticism and tenacity is incredibly intriguing. Just not sure what he ultimately is at the NBA level.
I don't know anything other than the dunks. But great holy hell, the dunks...

Young Larry Johnson comes to mind,in terms of body-type. Then again, so does Anthony Bennett.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I don't know anything other than the dunks. But great holy hell, the dunks...

Young Larry Johnson comes to mind,in terms of body-type. Then again, so does Anthony Bennett.
Ha, my thoughts exactly. Maybe sprinkle in some Shawn Kemp. Surprising athleticism for someone his size, very comfortable handling the ball. But I need to see him against better competition. Most of the kids I saw him play against in highlights won't be sniffing D1, let alone the NBA. He's just way too big for almost everyone he's playing against right now.
 

Big John

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Zion looks like Mike Sweetney on steroids or maybe a young Robert Traylor. His thick body is a red flag.
 

Hagios

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Zion looks like Mike Sweetney on steroids or maybe a young Robert Traylor. His thick body is a red flag.
Yup. I play squash and at my level we're all weekend warriors. Every now and then I play a middle aged guy with a thick beer belly who can run like crazy. All I can think is "how fast would that guy be if he weren't so fat?" That's also how I feel watching the Zion videos.
 
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nighthob

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Zion looks like Mike Sweetney on steroids or maybe a young Robert Traylor. His thick body is a red flag.
He's clearly a virtual clone of the overweight, beneath-the-rim, 18 year old BBQ Sweets. Congratulations, you win the donkey prize.
 

Kliq

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The stuff I have seen from Williamson are big dunks and him dribbling through tiny defenders like they were traffic cones. I see a great athlete but I'm not sure I see a truly gifted basketball player yet. He's a kid so he'll refine those skills and he has a great, athletic base to be a good player but right now I don't think he is as good of a prospect as a more skilled player like Michael Porter Jr.
 

nighthob

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The stuff I have seen from Williamson are big dunks and him dribbling through tiny defenders like they were traffic cones. I see a great athlete but I'm not sure I see a truly gifted basketball player yet. He's a kid so he'll refine those skills and he has a great, athletic base to be a good player but right now I don't think he is as good of a prospect as a more skilled player like Michael Porter Jr.
I wholly agree with this, which is why I said that he was a guy I could see developing well on a good vet team where he'd be free to develop his game and forced to earn his minutes. If he ends up on a typical lottery team I'd be dubious of him hitting his ceiling.
 

Kliq

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I wholly agree with this, which is why I said that he was a guy I could see developing well on a good vet team where he'd be free to develop his game and forced to earn his minutes. If he ends up on a typical lottery team I'd be dubious of him hitting his ceiling.
I'm not sure how good he'll be in college, he reminds me a bit of how Seventh Woods dominated his classmates. I think he's a better prospect due to his size, but I'm very curious to see how he handles tougher competition.
 

nighthob

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I think a better comparison for him might be Lance Stephenson, Woods lacked Williamson's profile (despite the athleticism Woods doesn't exactly have the size/length to be dominant against equal competition).

Stephenson looked dominant until the athleticism of his peers caught up to him. And he's struggled ever since. Williamson is a lot more athletic than Stephenson ever was, but he's still using it to dominate Div 3 high school ball. So you're completely right about the difficulty in projecting him.

On the plus side he seems to have played even better at the elite prospect camp level than at the high school level (Being able to raise your game like that is a real good sign), but until the athletic profiles of the everyday competition improves it will be tough to get a real read on him.

Also on the plus side is that you can teach a willing young player to shoot better, tighten his handle, etc., but you can't teach that sort of physical explosion.
 

amarshal2

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I know some people who know Greer Love and they are all very skeptical that he did something wrong.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I know some people who know Greer Love and they are all very skeptical that he did something wrong.
Just to follow-up, NBC sports reported that Love's 9-year relationship with Bamba has been investigated and cleared by the NCAA.

Some more information on the Love-Bamba relationship is here: http://247sports.com/Article/Exclusive-Elite-Texas-Commit-Mo-Bambas-Longtime-Mentor-Responds--53379813. Love apparently hired a Chief Compliance Officer for Big10 + Big 12 schools to advise. Without really being up on the NCAA rules, my guess is that because Love isn't affiliated with any school, the benefits aren't impermissible.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this I'm sure.
 

djbayko

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Early action on NBA team season wins at BetOnline. Sorry about the formatting.

Bottom 10 Teams | O/U | Odds
Brooklyn Nets | 21½ games | 53.1% under
Phoenix Suns | 25½ games | 53.1% over
Chicago Bulls | 29½ games | 50.0%
Indiana Pacers | 30½ games | 50.0%
Sacramento Kings | 31½ games | 50.0%
Los Angeles Lakers | 32½ games | 52.0% under
Dallas Mavericks | 34½ games | 50.0%
New York Knicks | 34½ games | 50.0%
Atlanta Hawks | 36½ games | 54.1% over
Orlando Magic | 36½ games | 59.4% under