That was then: Celebrating what was

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
10,150
NOVA
I watched about 40 minutes of that one today. Incredible.
Honestly, I watch it and my takeaway is wow all that knowledge and experience of seeing every imaginable situation in football history is now out the door. They were prepared for everything.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,565
Newton
Honestly, I watch it and my takeaway is wow all that knowledge and experience of seeing every imaginable situation in football history is now out the door. They were prepared for everything.
Yep, same. One of my theories with the falloff the last few years is that Bill spent so much time trying to win those last few years with Brady that he didn’t prepare for the losses of guys like Ernie and Scar that he could trust. Which led to … well, we know what that led to.

But in the spirit of Celebrating What Is/Was, this shit is must see. Two hours and forty five minutes of Ernie talking football and Patriots!
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
6,358
from the wilds of western ma
Watched it this morning. Outstanding. So many great stories and insights. And he’s very funny and engaging as well. Every time I read or see something about Ernie, I’m reminded how ridiculous it is that so few, if any other, teams employ someone like him. At least that I’ve ever heard about. He can’t be the only football nerd who would love to do that for a living.
 

Granite Sox

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 6, 2003
5,118
The Granite State
Ernie, Scar, Josh, Ivan Fears, even the Brians (Flores and Daboll). Those were some great coaches and staff members who had pelts on the wall. You can argue that none of them were adequately replaced. That’s a shit ton of great teaching and coaching. Coach Bill’s staff the past couple of years was extraordinarily mediocre.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
10,150
NOVA
Ernie, Scar, Josh, Ivan Fears, even the Brians (Flores and Daboll). Those were some great coaches and staff members who had pelts on the wall. You can argue that none of them were adequately replaced. That’s a shit ton of great teaching and coaching. Coach Bill’s staff the past couple of years was extraordinarily mediocre.
As an in Bill We Trust fan, I think this is fair. I wonder if @Van Everyman is correct in that Bill inadequately prepared for all the brain loss. I'm not sure he couldn't handle balancing trying to win as much as could during TB's last couple years and replacing a staff ... so much as he had whatever process he developed for doing so and it simply didn't succeed. That stuff happens and isn't uncommon even to the great ones.

Looking at the current staff, I don't see much hope in improving upon the outgoing staff but that's a topic for a different thread, I suppose. In any event, Ernie is a delight and these Edelman pods are amazing and fun. A good bow on a stellar 20-year run.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,271
Reboot time.

I just got through reading a post on how AJ Brown would have sucked with the Pats because the Pats suck. After reams of similar arguments about why drafting a QB is useless at best, signing high-end talent at different positions is a waste, etc., because the team is a dumpster fire.

Even with the two all-time NFL GOATs in the rear-view, the Pats are not a dumpster fire.

They have competitive talent at most spots - a full set of high-in-each-round picks - tons of cap space. And yeah, it gets cold in NE, and the taxes are high. But, with sorrynotsorry apologies to Pittsburgh, Dallas, Green Bay and SF, the Pats are THE most accomplished franchise in league history*. With the asterisk meaning, "especially in the current century, most of the good footage of those other franchises might as well be in b&w."

Lots of if's today, but if Mayo can get the ship pointed in the right direction and everyone rowing that way, this team can definitely make some waves this year and in the next several.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,519
Reboot time.

I just got through reading a post on how AJ Brown would have sucked with the Pats because the Pats suck. After reams of similar arguments about why drafting a QB is useless at best, signing high-end talent at different positions is a waste, etc., because the team is a dumpster fire.

Even with the two all-time NFL GOATs in the rear-view, the Pats are not a dumpster fire.

They have competitive talent at most spots - a full set of high-in-each-round picks - tons of cap space. And yeah, it gets cold in NE, and the taxes are high. But, with sorrynotsorry apologies to Pittsburgh, Dallas, Green Bay and SF, the Pats are THE most accomplished franchise in league history*. With the asterisk meaning, "especially in the current century, most of the good footage of those other franchises might as well be in b&w."

Lots of if's today, but if Mayo can get the ship pointed in the right direction and everyone rowing that way, this team can definitely make some waves this year and in the next several.
Yeah, the idea that excellent players would fail in New England is an absurd take. Get good players and the rest becomes a lot easier; no team has All-Pro caliber players at every position.

The reboot should be fun to watch, and it starts with this draft.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,829
Hingham, MA
Last edited:

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
What's next for McDaniels? He clearly has time on his hands. His track record as a HC is pretty horrific and the one man who will give him a job is also out of the league at the moment. Is he lying in wait for BB to make a move?
 
Last edited:

Garshaparra

New Member
Feb 27, 2008
561
McCarver's Mushy Mouth
What's next for McDaniels? He clearly has time on his hands. His track record as a HC is pretty horrific and the one man who will give him a job is also out of the league at the moment. Is he lying in wait for BB to make a move?
I'd expect he'll land in college when/if he wants to. But shed no tears for Josh McD! For he's making $10M per year through 2027 doin' nothin'.

https://fansided.com/posts/josh-mcdaniels-contract-length-how-much-will-raiders-eat-01he5xmbz3hx

After being sacked on Tuesday, McDaniels can rest easier knowing Las Vegas is still required to shell out the remaining of his salary -- the full, guaranteed four years.

That totals to around $40 million, give or take undisclosed incentives.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,475
Matt Light Tells an Absolute Banger of a Story About the One and Only Email Exchange He Ever Had With Belichick

More BB gold.

Hey, Matt. I just read this quote from you …

What the fuck?

We have over 50 guys working out today and the one guy who isn't here does all the talking about how important the offseason is. Figures. A lot of your teammates were concerned about you and asked why you weren't here. But don't worry. We let them all know that you're in Hawaii for a week. If you want to do something productive out there, why don't you have them move this meeting to the week BEFORE teams start their offseason programs?
Light responds, and then BB comes back with:

Matt,

I need some time to let this one settle, but I'll start with this. Why don't you consider dedicating yourself to having fewer mistakes and not leading the team in once again being the most penalized player on offense? Your numerous false start penalties, in evidence once again at the Pro Bowl
Finally, Matt, there is no need to use multi-syllable words in your email that neither your nor I know. I am unimpressed.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
This reminds of the Brady email dump from back in the Deflategate days where we saw up close and personal his frustration with paying 10k for a pool cover.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,565
Newton
I’m sorry but you clip the ending, which is equally amazing:
This will conclude my email chain and I will return to my efforts in trying to do a better job in coaching this football team. As for the PA meetings, don't worry about helping me. As I have said many times, and I remind myself, the best thing we can do for ourselves and our families is to WIN. Try to keep that in mind in your quest for world peace.

Sincerely and respectfully,

Bill Belichick


Head Coach
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,829
I’m sorry but you clip the ending, which is equally amazing:
The whole story is brilliant and Light is a natural yarn spinner.

Also, while Light says BB didn't have a sense of humor, that email chain plus the fact that Matt was in NE for 11 seasons argues otherwise. The syllable comment is just gold.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,076
around the way
I think he was giving Light good natured crap, but maybe I'm wrong.
Kinda but also not.

You must have heard the story from when BFB coached the pro bowl. I think that it was Tony Gonzales. Bill has the guy out on special teams for kickoff coverage and he whiffs on a tackle, then Bill gives him a bunch of shit on the sideline about being soft and not trying hard. It sunk in and the guy trucks a guy during the next kickoff. Then he goes back to the sideline to a bunch of congratulations, especially from Bill. And he's on the bench thinking "how the fuck did this guy get me working my balls off on kickoff coverage in the fucking pro bowl?" It left him with an appreciation for Bill's coaching skills.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,829
Wait, did he say this? I haven't listened to the whole interview yet. That's surprising because BB's response is even more hilarious than Light's email.
He makes a few statements to that effect - at one point when discussing the email he says he values it so much because its a human thing and Bill doesn't normally behave like a human being.

The meeting room anecdote was gold too.
I could listen to Light do BB all day.

And if/when Jules gets Vrabel on its going to be amazing.
 

Bowhemian

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2015
5,964
Bow, NH
Josh breaks down some Brady comebacks. I have not yet watched.

Edit: it's 50 minutes long!

Edit 2: it's on YouTube too. Probably better viewed there.

Edit 3: games covered are the first Super Bowl, unicorns/show ponies, 2017 regular season Texans, Seahawks SB, Falcons SB, Chiefs AFCCG

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykeG1jA4lbs&ab_channel=NewEnglandPatriots


https://www.patriots.com/video/josh-mcdaniels-breaks-down-tom-brady-s-best-comebacks
Thanks for posting this. That was awesome
 

dirtynine

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 17, 2002
8,512
Philly
The Moss “wish we won a ring with him” sentiment perking back up had me pondering: would you give up any of the SB wins to convert any of the SB losses into wins? It’s tougher than I thought, because even the less iconic wins (Panthers, Rams #2) have their place in the lore. Push to shove, even though it meant 2001 wasn’t a fluke, I think I’d trade in the Carolina title for an ‘07 ring. But that’s the only one.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,829
Hingham, MA
The Moss “wish we won a ring with him” sentiment perking back up had me pondering: would you give up any of the SB wins to convert any of the SB losses into wins? It’s tougher than I thought, because even the less iconic wins (Panthers, Rams #2) have their place in the lore. Push to shove, even though it meant 2001 wasn’t a fluke, I think I’d trade in the Carolina title for an ‘07 ring. But that’s the only one.
15 straight wins leading to the all time record of 21? Yikes.

Also, I was there, so hard no. Ha.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,728
The Moss “wish we won a ring with him” sentiment perking back up had me pondering: would you give up any of the SB wins to convert any of the SB losses into wins? It’s tougher than I thought, because even the less iconic wins (Panthers, Rams #2) have their place in the lore. Push to shove, even though it meant 2001 wasn’t a fluke, I think I’d trade in the Carolina title for an ‘07 ring. But that’s the only one.
I mean, you’d obviously trade a 2003 ring for a 19-0 ring. I was at the Carolina SB and hardly think about it. I was at SB42 and have always wanted a re-do!

Randy was basically the Patriots’ KG and it does absolutely suck that he never got a ring due to bad luck and Bernard f’ing Pollard.
 

azsoxpatsfan

Does not enjoy the go
SoSH Member
May 23, 2014
4,847
The Moss “wish we won a ring with him” sentiment perking back up had me pondering: would you give up any of the SB wins to convert any of the SB losses into wins? It’s tougher than I thought, because even the less iconic wins (Panthers, Rams #2) have their place in the lore. Push to shove, even though it meant 2001 wasn’t a fluke, I think I’d trade in the Carolina title for an ‘07 ring. But that’s the only one.
There’s a case to be made for pretty much any one of them. The only one I’d say no without having to consider it is against Seattle because I was there with my dad and its an all time memory of mine. Rams #2 seems like an easy choice, but that game has a place in history as the greatest punted game of all time and how can you give that up
 

Dollar

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2006
11,419
Rams #2 for 2007 is an easy decision. But it does make me wonder about how crazy things would have felt if we traded seahawks 49 for 2007. The Patriots cement themselves as the dynasty to end all dynasties with the win in '07, then things take a devastating turn. Brady injured, Ravens blowout loss, playoff losses to the Jets, Eli gets us back, Peyton and the Broncos win big, lose to Pete Carroll and Wilson, another loss to an aging Peyton, then we go down 28-3 to the Falcons. Think about how great that comeback was, and how much more incredible it would have been in that alternate reality.
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,613
Trade one of the Super Bowls to win the perfect season? How are these the parameters? This is not how this goes, or has gone, in any corner of Patriots Nation. This is a PFW/PU conversation going back years, and the way it begins is this: Which TWO of the Super Bowl wins would you give up in exchange for that one? My answer:

The Philly one and the Rams 2.0 one.

I would do this in a heartbeat. The one-for-one thing is silly.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
25,292
Rams #2 for 2007 is an easy decision. But it does make me wonder about how crazy things would have felt if we traded seahawks 49 for 2007. The Patriots cement themselves as the dynasty to end all dynasties with the win in '07, then things take a devastating turn. Brady injured, Ravens blowout loss, playoff losses to the Jets, Eli gets us back, Peyton and the Broncos win big, lose to Pete Carroll and Wilson, another loss to an aging Peyton, then we go down 28-3 to the Falcons. Think about how great that comeback was, and how much more incredible it would have been in that alternate reality.
One of the reasons why the Seattle win was so enormous was because of the 07 and 11 losses (technically in 08 and 12, but whatever). "They haven't won since Spygate" went away with that win. Plus it denied Seattle their own dynasty. I wouldn't trade that one though. I would trade the 18 Rams and 04 Eagles wins for 07 for sure. Probably 03 Panthers as well. Pretty easy calls for me on those.
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
14,282
Boulder, CO
Trade one of the Super Bowls to win the perfect season? How are these the parameters? This is not how this goes, or has gone, in any corner of Patriots Nation. This is a PFW/PU conversation going back years, and the way it begins is this: Which TWO of the Super Bowl wins would you give up in exchange for that one? My answer:

The Philly one and the Rams 2.0 one.

I would do this in a heartbeat. The one-for-one thing is silly.
This. I’d even trade both rams. No one expected us to win 36, the loss wouldn’t have stung much.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,868
Somewhere
I live in Pittsburgh. And while the total number of rings don’t actually matter to me that much, the angst it causes Steelers fans make it worthwhile. I’m not trading any multiples.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
65,699
Would anyone trade the Atlanta SB? I get why you would but that’d be a hard one for me.
At some point, your trading one legendary achievement for another. Personally, I’m not sure I have enough perspective to gauge how I would think an alternate set of experiences.

Like, losing undefeated sucked. But Atlanta was so epic that it transcends the local and even many non-Pats fans think it’s kinda funny and cool. I really don’t know.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
13,016
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Had you asked me in 2013 if I would have traded two potential future Super Bowls for 2007, I would have said yes. But having won 3 more after that, 2007 became a season I can look back on fondly, and I still have 3 aditional title memories to boot. 18-1 gave me grief when there was real doubt we'd ever see another one. Now it just kind of enhances the story.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,076
around the way
Yeah this trading multiple super bowls for one talk...I can't get down with. Pick 1 of Rams 2.0 or Carolina. Maybe could be talked into Philly 1.0, but losing to a Philly team twice would be even worse than having done it to the Giants (the former's fans are awful). Perfect season is great but not "worth two super bowls" great.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
Too many people sleeping on the value of the '07 win. It's not just a SB win, it's sports immortality. It makes you the greatest NFL team of all time and routinely puts you at or near the top of any list of greatest sports teams of all time. Not even taking into account the extra game(s), it's the one thing Mahomes and Reid are never going to accomplish. It's worth any of the 6 wins and probably more than one.