That was then: Celebrating what was

Cotillion

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Jun 11, 2019
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Yeah I hear you. But from the sounds of it, Brady himself said that there was no way he was returning to the Patriots. That sound bite is in this documentary, apparently. So even if BB was willing to give Brady that contract, from Brady's own words, he wasn't going to say yes.

Is Brady telling the truth in that sound bite? Who knows.
I live in the Bay Area. And they used to have Tom Sr on a ton on the local sports radio. The final patriots year it was very clear from how Sr talked about thing that chances of Tom coming back were pretty nonexistent unless there were seismic changes to how things were going, and it was fait accompli that Tom was gone.
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,524
I live in the Bay Area. And they used to have Tom Sr on a ton on the local sports radio. The final patriots year it was very clear from how Sr talked about thing that chances of Tom coming back were pretty nonexistent unless there were seismic changes to how things were going, and it was fait accompli that Tom was gone.
Yes. I was talking about a conversation I believed they had PRIOR to that last year.
 

BaseballJones

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The third year Brady one is so odd to me. Maybe just an odd picture but looks like a different person.

View attachment 78258
His haircut in the upper right photo....egads. I wonder why there isn't a photo of him with the long hair (can't remember what year that was). That was a good look for him, IMO.

But man, he looks so much better in those last handful of photos than his earlier ones.
 

Dollar

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His haircut in the upper right photo....egads. I wonder why there isn't a photo of him with the long hair (can't remember what year that was). That was a good look for him, IMO.

But man, he looks so much better in those last handful of photos than his earlier ones.
Yeah I'm not sure what's going on in that image because it looks like a few of them are repeated or edited and it clearly is missing 2010 Brady:

 

Hoya81

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His haircut in the upper right photo....egads. I wonder why there isn't a photo of him with the long hair (can't remember what year that was). That was a good look for him, IMO.

But man, he looks so much better in those last handful of photos than his earlier ones.
He said once he really didn’t start taking his nutrition and conditioning seriously until 2004 or so after Willie McGinest told him all his nagging injuries would get worse unless he was in top condition.
 

NortheasternPJ

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As will I. People can talk crap all they want about Belichick. Dude ran the show for the greatest 18-20 year run in NFL history. I couldn't be happier with the results.
It can be true that he ran the greatest run in NFL history and also massively fucked up the last 5 years from no plan after Brady. It doesn’t take away from what he did. It just is the reason he’s gone and unemployed.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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It can be true that he ran the greatest run in NFL history and also massively fucked up the last 5 years from no plan after Brady. It doesn’t take away from what he did. It just is the reason he’s gone and unemployed.
wasn’t a bridge (Newton) until they could draft the next “guy” (Mac Jones) the plan? Keep the defense strong (which he did) while building up the rest of the roster (which he certainly tried to do albeit failing in a number of key spots)

He got the team back to the playoffs with a rookie QB after the weird COVID year despite massive attrition across the roster.

Obviously the collapse the last 2 years wasn’t part of the plan but I think anyone who was saying he royally screwed up and there was no plan forgets that in 2021 they had made the playoffs (albeit getting smashed) with a guy who looked like he could at least be a competent starter, had just spent a ton of money in free agency (albeit with Agoholor and Smith disappointments, Judon and Henry were not) and it looked like they had some good young players on the rise - Jones, Dugger, Onwenu, Stevenson and Meyers amongst them.

Basically everything that could have gone wrong since summer of 2022 has gone wrong and that’s why he’s gone but to suggest the vast majority of Pats fans weren’t at least cautiously optimistic and buying into the “post Brady” plan heading into the 2022 offseason is revisionist history at its finest.

it wasn’t just Brady. It was Edelman, Gronk, Amendola, Chung, Gilmore, McCourty, Thuney, Mason, Hightower, Gostkowski, James White. The amount of key talent that got old, expensive, old and expensive, injured, old and injured basically within a 2 season span was something I don’t think any GM could have overcome.

Which is not to excuse some of BB’s well discussed personnel misses (not retaining Thuney for example). I just don’t know what was expected in terms of a plan for replacing the GOAT QB, GOAT TE and several Patriots hall of fame guys in a short span could have been other than hope for a miraculous run of draft luck.

As it stands, he still found a bunch of good contributors (Tavai, Peppers, Douglas being obvious examples) but not at the key spots (tackle, QB and WR). I don’t see a lack of plan and I’d argue that his success with the talent acquired and performance of the D precludes it from being a “massive fuck up”

BB, like many many GM’s, became victim to a first round bust QB. Jones was the proverbial straw that broke his back.
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,524
wasn’t a bridge (Newton) until they could draft the next “guy” (Mac Jones) the plan? Keep the defense strong (which he did) while building up the rest of the roster (which he certainly tried to do albeit failing in a number of key spots)

He got the team back to the playoffs with a rookie QB after the weird COVID year despite massive attrition across the roster.

Obviously the collapse the last 2 years wasn’t part of the plan but I think anyone who was saying he royally screwed up and there was no plan forgets that in 2021 they had made the playoffs (albeit getting smashed) with a guy who looked like he could at least be a competent starter, had just spent a ton of money in free agency (albeit with Agoholor and Smith disappointments, Judon and Henry were not) and it looked like they had some good young players on the rise - Jones, Dugger, Onwenu, Stevenson and Meyers amongst them.

Basically everything that could have gone wrong since summer of 2022 has gone wrong and that’s why he’s gone but to suggest the vast majority of Pats fans weren’t at least cautiously optimistic and buying into the “post Brady” plan heading into the 2022 offseason is revisionist history at its finest.

it wasn’t just Brady. It was Edelman, Gronk, Amendola, Chung, Gilmore, McCourty, Thuney, Mason, Hightower, Gostkowski, James White. The amount of key talent that got old, expensive, old and expensive, injured, old and injured basically within a 2 season span was something I don’t think any GM could have overcome.

Which is not to excuse some of BB’s well discussed personnel misses (not retaining Thuney for example). I just don’t know what was expected in terms of a plan for replacing the GOAT QB, GOAT TE and several Patriots hall of fame guys in a short span could have been other than hope for a miraculous run of draft luck.

As it stands, he still found a bunch of good contributors (Tavai, Peppers, Douglas being obvious examples) but not at the key spots (tackle, QB and WR). I don’t see a lack of plan and I’d argue that his success with the talent acquired and performance of the D precludes it from being a “massive fuck up”

BB, like many many GM’s, became victim to a first round bust QB. Jones was the proverbial straw that broke his back.
They failed to draft well, generally speaking, for basically a decade. That's why it didn't work. That's why he's gone. I love BB. Thank God for him. But the drafts were, by and large, terrible and this is what happens. Meanwhile, if Jones, Dugger, Onwenu, Stevenson and Meyers constitute a team's young core, that is an absolutely uninspiring core. Now we rebuild, we thank him for his historic service, and we hope that "Maye Daniels" is Matthew Stafford-ish level good. That is all.
 

rodderick

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They failed to draft well, generally speaking, for basically a decade. That's why it didn't work. That's why he's gone. I love BB. Thank God for him. But the drafts were, by and large, terrible and this is what happens. Meanwhile, if Jones, Dugger, Onwenu, Stevenson and Meyers constitute a team's young core, that is an absolutely uninspiring core. Now we rebuild, we thank him for his historic service, and we hope that "Maye Daniels" is Matthew Stafford-ish level good. That is all.
It's crazy to think just how much finding Gronk, Edelman and McCourty basically allowed the run to continue for a decade. Of course, there were other contributors drafted as well, but those three guys were the difference makers and the run ended in part due to not being able to replace them.
 

JMDurron

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I think my favorite part of the first two episodes was Bill talking about how coaching Brady made him up his own preparation level, so he’d be ready for Brady’s level of prep before they met.

Just reinforces my own bias that it was never Tom OR Bill. Tom and Bill brought out the best in each other along the way.
 
Oct 12, 2023
656
They failed to draft well, generally speaking, for basically a decade. That's why it didn't work. That's why he's gone. I love BB. Thank God for him. But the drafts were, by and large, terrible and this is what happens. Meanwhile, if Jones, Dugger, Onwenu, Stevenson and Meyers constitute a team's young core, that is an absolutely uninspiring core. Now we rebuild, we thank him for his historic service, and we hope that "Maye Daniels" is Matthew Stafford-ish level good. That is all.
you either have wildly unrealistic expectations for the draft or you’re using “generally…a decade” incredibly loosely

The 2013 (Collins, Ryan, Harmon), 2014 (Garoppolo, White), 2015 (Brown, Flowers, Mason), 2016 (Thuney, Brissett, Roberts, Karras, and even Grugier Hill who has had a nice career elsewhere and Mitchell who was integral to the Super Bowl win), 2020 (Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu), 2021 (Barmore, Stevenson) and early returns on 2023 (Gonzalez, White, Sow, maybe Mafi) weren’t terrible and some of them were decidedly above average classes.

2017, 2019 and 2022 were awful for sure. And I’m not going to argue that they had a great track record but they had several good by any definition classes, a few mediocre ones which yielded key contributors to Super Bowl teams and a couple below average but not terrible ones.

They’ve failed to hit on long term cornerstone pieces in the 1st round and that’s a big problem. But the point of a draft is to build a Super Bowl winning team and the first half of that decade span which was “terrible” yielded a whole lot of guys who helped get to and win super bowls.
 

rodderick

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you either have wildly unrealistic expectations for the draft or you’re using “generally…a decade” incredibly loosely

The 2013 (Collins, Ryan, Harmon), 2014 (Garoppolo, White), 2015 (Brown, Flowers, Mason), 2016 (Thuney, Brissett, Roberts, Karras, and even Grugier Hill who has had a nice career elsewhere and Mitchell who was integral to the Super Bowl win), 2020 (Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu), 2021 (Barmore, Stevenson) and early returns on 2023 (Gonzalez, White, Sow, maybe Mafi) weren’t terrible and some of them were decidedly above average classes.

2017, 2019 and 2022 were awful for sure. And I’m not going to argue that they had a great track record but they had several good by any definition classes, a few mediocre ones which yielded key contributors to Super Bowl teams and a couple below average but not terrible ones.

They’ve failed to hit on long term cornerstone pieces in the 1st round and that’s a big problem. But the point of a draft is to build a Super Bowl winning team and the first half of that decade span which was “terrible” yielded a whole lot of guys who helped get to and win super bowls.
Eh. Did it really? I see a lot of solid contributors and not a single guy who was instrumental to them winning any of those Super Bowls. Maybe Thuney? If the argument is "if you have Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski finding okay roster pieces is good enough to contend for a title" I won't argue. I just don't think it would be good enough in pretty much any other scenario (I guess if you had Mahomes and Kelce it would).
 

Hoya81

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you either have wildly unrealistic expectations for the draft or you’re using “generally…a decade” incredibly loosely

The 2013 (Collins, Ryan, Harmon), 2014 (Garoppolo, White), 2015 (Brown, Flowers, Mason), 2016 (Thuney, Brissett, Roberts, Karras, and even Grugier Hill who has had a nice career elsewhere and Mitchell who was integral to the Super Bowl win), 2020 (Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu), 2021 (Barmore, Stevenson) and early returns on 2023 (Gonzalez, White, Sow, maybe Mafi) weren’t terrible and some of them were decidedly above average classes.

2017, 2019 and 2022 were awful for sure. And I’m not going to argue that they had a great track record but they had several good by any definition classes, a few mediocre ones which yielded key contributors to Super Bowl teams and a couple below average but not terrible ones.

They’ve failed to hit on long term cornerstone pieces in the 1st round and that’s a big problem. But the point of a draft is to build a Super Bowl winning team and the first half of that decade span which was “terrible” yielded a whole lot of guys who helped get to and win super bowls.
Mitchell’s injuries loom large in hindsight. He seemed to really gel with Brady and had a knack for getting open when they needed a play. If he’s healthy, than a whole bunch of moves probably don’t get made (trading for Cooks/Sanu, rolling the dice with Josh Gordon etc).
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,524
you either have wildly unrealistic expectations for the draft or you’re using “generally…a decade” incredibly loosely

The 2013 (Collins, Ryan, Harmon), 2014 (Garoppolo, White), 2015 (Brown, Flowers, Mason), 2016 (Thuney, Brissett, Roberts, Karras, and even Grugier Hill who has had a nice career elsewhere and Mitchell who was integral to the Super Bowl win), 2020 (Dugger, Uche, Jennings, Onwenu), 2021 (Barmore, Stevenson) and early returns on 2023 (Gonzalez, White, Sow, maybe Mafi) weren’t terrible and some of them were decidedly above average classes.

2017, 2019 and 2022 were awful for sure. And I’m not going to argue that they had a great track record but they had several good by any definition classes, a few mediocre ones which yielded key contributors to Super Bowl teams and a couple below average but not terrible ones.

They’ve failed to hit on long term cornerstone pieces in the 1st round and that’s a big problem. But the point of a draft is to build a Super Bowl winning team and the first half of that decade span which was “terrible” yielded a whole lot of guys who helped get to and win super bowls.
I totally get that fans can sometimes have unrealistic expectations for drafts. Hitting on two or three IMPACT players is a really good draft. I would say that singing the praises of the 2016 draft is not your best point. Thuney, of course, was a GREAT pick. But just naming guys like Elandon Roberts, Karras, a lifetime back-up (who I like) in Brisset and Grugier-Hill does not constitute a good draft. Players who still are in the league...I mean, it's sort of a fair point, but it's not a compelling one.

I don't even thinking the 2020 guys are what we were hoping for. Given how things played out in that draft, the Patriots chose not to be aggressive and, so, missed out on Justin Jefferson and wound up with Dugger and Uche. Dugger is dynamic sometimes, fun to have I guess, Uche is a role player who gets sacks in bursts and who may well not be on the team this year. It's too soon to tell, but I definitely sign on to the early returns of 2023. Love Gonzalez, have high hopes for Keon White. I remain curious about Mapu and if he can fit as a more athletic (finally) LB. Overall, though, I'm sticking with my theory., which I believe is backed up by the fact that this team hasn't given an extension to any draftee in God knows how long. That is an indictment of BB's ability to draft well. No?
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Mitchell’s injuries loom large in hindsight. He seemed to really gel with Brady and had a knack for getting open when they needed a play. If he’s healthy, than a whole bunch of moves probably don’t get made (trading for Cooks/Sanu, rolling the dice with Josh Gordon etc).
Definitely agree with this. Mitchell was a terrific rookie WR for the Pats. The thing is, he was draft in the 4th round because of the questions about his knees. That said, I'll take it. I loved watching him play, we may not have won the Super Bowl without him, and it's a shame his career was cut short.
 

Justthetippett

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Definitely agree with this. Mitchell was a terrific rookie WR for the Pats. The thing is, he was draft in the 4th round because of the questions about his knees. That said, I'll take it. I loved watching him play, we may not have won the Super Bowl without him, and it's a shame his career was cut short.
I still get nightmares over that play in the SB where he caught it, went down without being touched and dropped the ball college style. Thankful for the quick whistle!
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I still get nightmares over that play in the SB where he caught it, went down without being touched and dropped the ball college style. Thankful for the quick whistle!
In no world would that ever have been ruled a fumble. He never let go over the ball. It would have been impossible for a defender to get the ball with out touching him.
 

GrandSlamPozo

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The documentary is massively overselling the QB controversy in 2001 after Bledsoe was cleared to play. Drew had given the Patriots nearly 2 straight years of mediocre-at-best football going back to midway through the 99 season before Brady stepped in and gave the franchise new hope. There were still some stubborn Drew supporters at the time (like myself) but we were the minority among Pats fans in the online communities I frequented at the time. The majority agreed with the decision to keep playing Brady.
 

brandonchristensen

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The documentary is massively overselling the QB controversy in 2001 after Bledsoe was cleared to play. Drew had given the Patriots nearly 2 straight years of mediocre-at-best football going back to midway through the 99 season before Brady stepped in and gave the franchise new hope. There were still some stubborn Drew supporters at the time (like myself) but we were the minority among Pats fans in the online communities I frequented at the time. The majority agreed with the decision to keep playing Brady.
goddamn narrative writing. I didn’t know this either.
 

Dotrat

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The documentary is massively overselling the QB controversy in 2001 after Bledsoe was cleared to play. Drew had given the Patriots nearly 2 straight years of mediocre-at-best football going back to midway through the 99 season before Brady stepped in and gave the franchise new hope. There were still some stubborn Drew supporters at the time (like myself) but we were the minority among Pats fans in the online communities I frequented at the time. The majority agreed with the decision to keep playing Brady.
This is true—but as the doc shows, the media narrative was that, as well as Brady was playing, the job belonged to Bledsoe. I remember well how pronounced the disconnect was between fans and “the Lodge” and the national commentators.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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This is true—but as the doc shows, the media narrative was that, as well as Brady was playing, the job belonged to Bledsoe. I remember well how pronounced the disconnect was between fans and “the Lodge” and the national commentators.
The local sports media threw a TANTRUM over the decision to go to Brady permanently after the Rams game.

I have said it a million times: if you have access to the Globe archives or Westlaw, look up Ron Borges' column from Nov. 22, 2001. I don't even want to spoil it. Just look it up if possible. It's amazing in its bile.
 

m0ckduck

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Also, the safe thing to do as an exec— whether or not you felt it was the right thing to do— was to run back Bledsoe. If it didn't work out, you could always blame the star QB with the big contract (and then try to go back to Brady). The Pats management had been characterized by such cautious and conventional decision-making for so many years that I remember being startled by Belichick's decisiveness in opting for Brady (even though I clearly felt it was the right move).
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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The argument back then was that you don’t lose your job due to injury. Not sure it was true then or now, though, but was one of those unwritten old time bs sports things.
 

Tony C

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The argument back then was that you don’t lose your job due to injury. Not sure it was true then or now, though, but was one of those unwritten old time bs sports things.
The argument was a lot stronger than that. "Bile" was the word used in post above in re WEEI/Borges/Lobel et al, and it's totally correct.
 

lexrageorge

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What was interesting is that most fans wanted Brady to continue playing. I'm sure some fans were questioning the decision, as Brady was still unproven and the team was 5-5. Brady had some good games going 5-3, but he had a 4 pick game in Denver and a game against the Bills in which he was sacked 7 times. But fans weren't pissed, as most realized Bledsoe had not been very good going back a couple of seasons at that point, and were curious what the team had in Brady at that point.

It was the media, or more accurately the mediots, that were livid over the decision, and then got even more livid when Belichick refused to kowtow to them and justify his decision. And the faux outrage over the "you don't lose your job because of injury" is hilarious in retrospect; it's like none of them heard of Wally Pipp.
 

Jimbodandy

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The argument was a lot stronger than that. "Bile" was the word used in post above in re WEEI/Borges/Lobel et al, and it's totally correct.
Petagine is correct in that a lot of the watercooler and media talk was about how bad it is to lose your job to injury.

That said, some of it was people who just liked Drew. And there was Borges who was on a Washington Generals-level run of failure on his takes at the time.
 

Dollar

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But fans weren't pissed, as most realized Bledsoe had not been very good going back a couple of seasons at that point, and were curious what the team had in Brady at that point.
Definitely. And I think the other thing the doc gets wrong is that I don't think too many people were upset after the Rams game, thinking BB had blown the decision after a terrible Brady performance. I remember coming away from that Rams game happy that the Pats didn't shit the bed in prime time and confident that the team could hang with the best teams in the league.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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mikeot

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I think my favorite part of the first two episodes was Bill talking about how coaching Brady made him up his own preparation level, so he’d be ready for Brady’s level of prep before they met.

Just reinforces my own bias that it was never Tom OR Bill. Tom and Bill brought out the best in each other along the way.
This: the thread I'm most interested in following as the doc plays out.
 

Al Zarilla

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A "tell" in the Bledsoe vs. Brady decision might have been a remark that came some years later. I think it was from "Do Your Job" when Belichick said they could actually have started the season with Tom as the starter because of his excellent hard work, prep., etc. in 2000 and preseason 2001. But, they felt he didn't yet have the reps or snaps under his belt.
 
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Zincman

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What also may be true is that BB put his coaching life on the line in support of Brady. If it had gone sideways, he might have ended up on the scrap heap of two-time losers, unlikely to ever get another shot. This was a matter of extreme conviction because there was a safe route to take....but "two roads diverged in a wood". BB took the one less traveled and it made all the difference in the world. We rarely mention this act as one of the fundamental characteristics of BB that contributed to the building of the dynasty.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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What also may be true is that BB put his coaching life on the line in support of Brady. If it had gone sideways, he might have ended up on the scrap heap of two-time losers, unlikely to ever get another shot. This was a matter of extreme conviction because there was a safe route to take....but "two roads diverged in a wood". BB took the one less traveled and it made all the difference in the world. We rarely mention this act as one of the fundamental characteristics of BB that contributed to the building of the dynasty.
I think his essential coaching philosophy was that if he did what he thought was best for the team and it didn't work, he would get fired anyway, so he might as well stick to his convictions.
 

Cotillion

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I think his essential coaching philosophy was that if he did what he thought was best for the team and it didn't work, he would get fired anyway, so he might as well stick to his convictions.
I think part of that comes from his Browns tenure. He was doing everything there only for the owner to rip out the morale of the team by announcing the move. He then gets fired for the collapse.
 

Zincman

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Sticking to one's convictions should not be dismissed as one's only alternative. It's more a measure of character. It's more rare than we are willing to admit to and truly rare in the NFL.
 

BaseballJones

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Rank Tom Brady's Super Bowl runs with the Patriots (SB winning seasons only):

2002 (2001 season)
Div: 16-13 over Oak (H, #): 32-52 (61.5%), 312 yds, 5.1 y/a, 0 td, 1 int, 70.4 rating, 5 rush, 16 yds, 1 td
CG: 24-17 over Pit (A): 12-18 (66.7%), 115 yds, 6.4 y/a, 0 td, 0 int, 84.3 rating, 2 rush, 3 yds
SB: 20-17 over StL (N): 16-27 (59.3%), 145 yds, 6.1 y/a, 1 td, 0 int, 86.2 rating, 1 rush, 3 yds
TOTALS: 60-97 (61.9%), 569 yds, 5.9 y/a, 1 td, 1 int, 77.2 rating, 8 rush, 22 yds, 1 td

Notes:
- Difficult weather conditions vs. Oakland.
- Tough road game against #1 seed in Pit in AFCCG; Steelers have #1 defense (yards) in NFL
- Brady gets hurt and doesn't play the whole game.
- Rams on the brink of a dynasty and have the #3 defense (yards)

2004 (2003 season)
Div: 17-14 over Ten (H): 21-41 (51.2%), 201 yds, 4.9 y/a, 1 td, 0 int, 73.3 rating, 5 rush, 5 yds
CG: 24-14 over Ind (H): 22-37 (59.5%), 237 yds, 6.4 y/a, 1 td, 1 int, 76.1 rating, 5 rush, 1 yd
SB: 32-29 over Car (N): 32-48 (66.7%), 354 yds, 7.4 y/a, 3 td, 1 int, 100.5 rating, 2 rush, 12 yds
TOTALS: 75-126 (59.5%), 792 yds, 6.3 y/a, 5 td, 2 int, 84.5 rating, 12 rush, 18 yds

Notes:
- Frigid temps against Tennessee; going up against MVP McNair.
- Win over Indy was against Peyton (co-MVP with McNair); so NE beat two MVPs this year.
- Brady broke SB record for passing vs. Carolina.

2005 (2004 season)
Div: 20-3 over Ind (H): 18-27 (66.7%), 144 yds, 5.3 y/a, 1 td, 0 int, 92.2 rating, 4 rush, 6 yds
CG: 41-27 over Pit (A): 14-21 (66.7%), 207 yds, 9.9 y/a, 2 td, 0 int, 130.5 rating, 2 rush, -2 yds
SB: 24-21 over Phi (N): 23-33 (69.7%), 236 yds, 7.2 y/a, 2 td, 0 int, 110.2 rating, 1 rush, -1 yd
TOTALS: 55-81 (67.9%), 587 yds, 7.2 y/a, 5 td, 0 int, 109.4 rating, 7 rush, 3 yds

Notes:
- Another win over Peyton in the snow.
- Road win in AFCCG against league's #1 defense; Brady had 104 temp during the game.
- Win over Philly, who had been in 4 straight NFCCGs. Eagles had #2 scoring D that year.

2015 (2014 season)
Div: 35-31 over Bal (H): 33-50 (66.0%), 367 yds, 7.3 y/a, 3 td, 1 int, 99.3 rating, 6 rush, 0 yds
CG: 45-7 over Ind (H): 23-35 (65.7%), 226 yds, 6.5 y/a, 3 td, 1 int, 100.4 rating, 3 rush, 13 yds
SB: 28-24 over Sea (N): 37-50 (74.0%), 328 yds, 6.6 y/a, 4 td, 2 int, 101.1 rating, 2 rush, -3 yds
TOTALS: 93-135 (68.9%), 921 yds, 6.8 y/a, 10 td, 4 int, 100.3 rating, 11 rush, 10 yds

Notes:
- Came back twice from 14 points down vs. Bal.
- Dominated the Colts in every way in the AFCCG.
- Beat all-time great defense in SB with Seattle. #1 in every category for several straight seasons. Biggest comeback in SB history to that point, down 10 in the 4th Q.

2017 (2016 season)
Div: 34-16 over Hou (H): 18-38 (47.4%), 287 yds, 7.6 y/a, 2 td, 2 int, 68.6 rating, 4 rush, -1 yds
CG: 36-17 over Pit (H): 32-42 (76.2%), 384 yds, 10.6 y/a, 3 td, 0 int, 127.5 rating, 4 rush, -1 yds
SB: 34-28 over Atl (N): 43-62 (69.4%), 466 yds, 7.5 y/a, 2 td, 1 int, 95.2 rating, 1 rush, 15 yds
TOTALS: 93-142 (65.5%), 1,137 yds, 8.0 y/a, 7 td, 3 int, 97.7 rating, 9 rush, 13 yds

Notes:
- Rolled to easy victories in AFC playoffs; this was the year Brady was suspended for 4 games.
- SB vs. Atlanta was biggest comeback in playoff history (down 28-3); Brady broke record for passing in a SB.

2019 (2018 season)
Div: 41-28 over LAC (H): 34-44 (77.3%), 343 yds, 7.8 y/a, 1 td, 0 int, 106.5 rating, 2 rush, -1 yds
CG: 37-31 over KC (A): 30-46 (65.2%), 348 yds, 7.6 y/a, 1 td, 2 int, 77.1 rating, 1 rush, -1 yds
SB: 13-3 over LAR (N): 21-35 (60.0%), 262 yds, 7.5 y/a, 0 td, 1 int, 71.4 rating, 2 rush, -2 yds
TOTALS: 85-125 (68.0%), 953 yds, 7.6 y/a, 2 td, 3 int, 85.6 rating, 5 rush, -4 yds

Notes:
- Offense rolled in AFC playoffs.
- Beat Pat Mahomes in AFCCG on the road in frigid KC.
- Defensive struggle vs. Rams in SB.


If I were to rank his SB runs with the Pats....

1. 2017 (2016 season) - enormous statistical production; dominated in AFC playoffs; greatest comeback ever in SB.
2. 2015 (2014 season) - win over Ind was easy, but Baltimore was a tremendously difficult game, and beating Seattle was epic.
3. 2005 (2004 season) - quality wins over three excellent opponents; Brady played very well in all three games.
4. 2004 (2003 season) - knocked off two MVPs in Peyton and McNair; crazy win vs Carolina, Brady put up big numbers.
5. 2019 (2018 season) - stats don't wow you necessarily but the win over KC was absolutely amazing.
6. 2002 (2001 season) - obviously he was essentially a rookie starter, but he didn't have to do too much, but when needed (clutch time vs. Oak, big drive in SB), he came up big.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
62,029
New York City
- SB vs. Atlanta was biggest comeback in playoff history (down 28-3); Brady broke record for passing in a SB.
Great rundown, love the detail.

Just wanted to note the Bills with Frank Reich had a 32 point comeback in the playoffs against the Oilers. So the Atlanta game wasn't the biggest in playoff history but obviously the biggest by far in SB history.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,979
Pittsburgh, PA
Wasn't sure where else to put this, but found a nugget on wikipedia worth sharing:

In February 2005, the Boston Syndromic Surveillance System detected an increase in young men seeking medical treatment for stroke. Most of them did not actually experience a stroke, but the largest number presented a day after Tedy Bruschi, a local sports figure, was hospitalized for a stroke. Presumably they began misinterpreting their own harmless symptoms, a group phenomenon now known as Tedy Bruschi syndrome.[27]
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,317
Hingham, MA
Great rundown, love the detail.

Just wanted to note the Bills with Frank Reich had a 32 point comeback in the playoffs against the Oilers. So the Atlanta game wasn't the biggest in playoff history but obviously the biggest by far in SB history.
Yeah of course that happened over the course of the entire second half - IIRC they had cut it to 35-24 by the end of the 3rd? What was so wild about 28-3 was that it didn’t really seem possible from a time perspective at 28-9 or 28-12, up until the strip sack.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,576
How hard would it be to take the data for Mahomes' playoff runs and rank them within Brady's?
Mahomes' three SB-winning runs:

2020 (2019 season)
Div: 51-31 over Hou (H): 23-35 (65.7%), 321 yds, 9.2 y/a, 5 td, 0 int, 134.6 rating, 7 rushes, 53 yds
CG: 35-24 over Ten (H): 23-35 (65.7%), 294 yds, 8.4 y/a, 3 td, 0 int, 120.4 rating, 8 rushes, 53 yds, 1 td
SB: 31-20 over SF (N): 26-42 (61.9%), 286 yds, 6.8 y/a, 2 td, 2 int, 78.1 rating, 9 rushes, 29 yds, 1 td
TOTALS: 72-112 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8.0 y/a, 10 td, 2 int, 111.5 rating, 24 rushes, 135 yds, 2 td

2023 (2022 season)
Div: 27-20 over Jax (H): 22-30 (73.3%), 195 yds, 7.8 y/a, 2 td, 0 int, 112.5 rating, 3 rushes, 8 yds
CG: 23-20 over Cin (H): 29-43 (67.4%), 326 yds, 7.6 y/a, 2 td, 0 int, 105.4 rating, 3 rushes, 8 yds
SB: 38-35 over Phi (N): 21-27 (77.8%), 182 yds, 6.7 y/a, 3 td, 0 int, 131.8 rating, 6 rushes, 44 yds
TOTALS: 72-100 (72.0%), 703 yds, 7.0 y/a, 7 td, 0 int, 114.7 rating, 12 rushes, 60 yds

2024 (2023 season)
WC: 26-7 over Mia (H): 23-41 (56.1%), 262 yds, 6.4 y/a, 1 td, 0 int, 83.6 rating, 2 rushes, 41 yds
Div: 27-24 over Buf (A): 17-23 (73.9%), 215 yds, 9.4 y/a, 2 td, 0 int, 131.6 rating, 6 rushes, 19 yds
CG: 17-10 over Bal (A): 30-39 (76.9%), 241 yds, 6.7 y/a, 1 td, 0 int, 100.5 rating, 6 rushes, 15 yds
SB: 25-22 over SF (N): 34-46 (73.9%), 333 yds, 7.2 y/a, 2 td, 1 int, 99.3 rating, 9 rushes, 66 yds
TOTALS: 104-149 (69.8%), 1,051 yds, 7.1 y/a, 6 td, 1 int, 100.3 rating, 23 rushes, 141 yds


Putting these runs in with how I ranked Brady's...

1. Mahomes 2024 (2023 season)
2. Brady 2017 (2016 season)
3. Mahomes 2023 (2022 season)
4. Brady 2015 (2014 season)
5. Mahomes 2020 (2019 season)
6. Brady 2005 (2004 season)
7. Brady 2004 (2003 season)
8. Brady 2019 (2018 season)
9. Brady 2002 (2001 season)

(obviously I'm not counting Brady's SB run with Tampa, which may have been the most impressive of them all, with three road games (small crowds due to Covid though) and absolutely waxing Mahomes and the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,678
AZ
In thinking about it, there's a point that I don't think John Madden ever really understood. I don't think Martz did either. I'm not sure that a lot of Patriots fans really remember it in the lore. But Belichick did.

The Patriots were effectively playing the last drive in 36 having two downs per series. The key to that game, and a minor key to jumpstarting the dynasty I think you could argue, is that the Rams were out of time outs. That meant that after the first play to Redmond in bounds, getting it down near 50 seconds, the Patriots were entirely in control of whether or not the game would go to overtime. If they had ever gotten into a third down situation, they would have run the ball or maybe even taken a knee depending on the situation. That would have effectively ended regulation.

But they never got into third down -- well except for the kick. So it looked like they were slinging it and risking giving the ball back but they never really were. We just never had to see it because there was no third down.

tl;dr -- timeouts really can matter. Don't call them to avoid delay of game when it doesn't matter. Just take the 5 yards.