This thread is amazing, especially since it's in a forum with not one, not 2, not 3, but 4 different threads reveling in "The Nation's Tears" and how all whining and complaining from fans of other teams is laughable jealousy.
Super Bowl LVII - Chiefs vs Eagles in Glendale
- Thread starter JohnnyTheBone
- Start date
I’m curious from @DaveRoberts'Shoes or others. Which of these is true?
1. Mahomes never had a high ankle sprain.
2. Mahomes had a high ankle sprain, but he has a unique physiology that provides mobility greater than any other athlete with a high ankle sprain.
3.The Chiefs’s medical staff is rewriting the book on treating high ankle sprains.
1. Mahomes never had a high ankle sprain.
2. Mahomes had a high ankle sprain, but he has a unique physiology that provides mobility greater than any other athlete with a high ankle sprain.
3.The Chiefs’s medical staff is rewriting the book on treating high ankle sprains.
Yeah, nobody has a pretty good shot of surpassing Brady at this point. Mahomes is certainly #1 on that list and has a pretty good shot of being a consensus top 5 QB. But the sheer longevity and continual team success for Brady are otherworldly.
The Philly defense just did not make any plays. They were pushed around in the running game. They apparently have never seen WRs go in motion (much like Matt Patricia). KC ran 53 plays and had 21 first downs. They had no sacks, and they let a clearly hampered Mahomes run on them.
No kidding. Yikes -- yes, true it’s Chinatown, but scrolling thru that was a new low all the same.
Yup, he will have a real claim at this if he wins 2-3 more. But I think he needs to win 2-3 more at least to enter the discussion. A 7-3 or whatever SB disparity would be too much since Brady’s numbers are so great.
Oh if he wins one more a not-insignificant portion of the football world will call him the greatest. Prepare to hear the argument "he does things no other QBs do" and "look how stacked the AFC is with QBs" and of course the old chestnut "Brady was just a game manager!!!"
Jesus on a Zoom call this morning with the marketing team digging into the analytics. He's not happy with the engagement numbers but he's in a forgiving mood.
This is definitely the case when you get under the two minute warning, but I think it's often optimal for the defense to let the team to score even before that. Last night Pacheco had one tackle left to break when the Chiefs were around mid-field and just over two minutes to go. The Eagles player who made the tackle should have let Pacheco take it all the way even at that point, and I doubt Pacheco wouldn't have done so. Even if Pacheco did go down before reaching the end zone, it would have been closer to the goal line and would have minimized the number of first downs left to get and therefore the amount of clock that could be burned off.
Yup. End of the day, it’ll just be another stupid sports argument. I also think he’s more likely to stay at 2 than he is to win 4-5. It’s just really hard to win it all and you need a lot of things to go right. Competition will be fierce. Wonder if KC will try to get Mayer from ND as the heir apparent to Kelce. Mahomes will need the next generation chain mover soon.
100 years from now, all that will matter are the Superbowls. Mahomes will need 5 more imo.
I honestly don't get this strategy at all. They tackled him at the Philly 43 w/ 3:37. How is letting him score or letting them get into chip shot field goal range (if Pacheco takes yards but goes down on his own) more optimal than attempting to prevent any scoring? If you have the opportunity to stop them outside of scoring range or in low percentage field goal range (especially given Butker's 2023 season) you have to try. Leaving 3+ minutes needing to score a TD to at worst tie and at best go for two to get the win seems like a ridiculously bad gamble.
If I were them I'd just keep investing in the line, and develop these late rounders/cast offs at the skill positions. Mahomes can make lemonade with just about anyone as long as he has time. And he's going to get less elusive as he ages.
Agreed. OL is key. If Mahomes has time, he’ll find people although I think he’ll still need that go-to guy. But the secondary pieces will almost certainly continue to be recycled. We’ll see if they can get more out of Toney next year. He has elite talent.
I definitely concede that this specific Pacheco example is debatable, but with the way the Eagles defense and Chiefs offense were playing at that point, there is really almost no timeline in the multiverse where the Chiefs do not get into easy field goal range and burn off almost the entire clock once they get to the Philadelphia 43 with a first down and three and a half minutes to go. I grant you that the actual reality undermines my example, since the Eagles still should have gotten the ball back with almost two minutes left and a timeout while only needing a field goal.
The basic point I'm trying to make is that I think NFL defenses as a rule spend way too long trying to stop another team from scoring in situations where the game flow and situational facts should dictate that letting the other team score quickly is the optimal play.
Same, aside from the bad finish it was an exciting matchup and overall a good product. I skipped all the ads and the halftime show so even better.
Sometimes it feels like people forgot how shitty the Superbowls were for ~20 years before Rams-Titans
In very specific circumstances I agree, but not in this circumstance at all. The Eagles were a questionable penalty away from getting the ball back with 1:30 left and only needing a FG to tie. Couldn’t have asked for much more than that.
Generally speaking a D should play D. Turnovers happen. Offensive penalties happen. Missed FGs happen. And it’s not like success is guaranteed getting the ball back with a little more time left.
That's real early. Had that holding penalty not been called, Philly has a great shot of tying the game and decent shot at winning it. It was set up like that until it wasn't.
We’ve been fortunate for the last 25 years even setting aside that we’re mostly Pats fans here. Only a handful of duds in that time.
Packers-Broncos was the turning point. That one's still in my top two or three of all time.
I don’t think Mahomes ends up with 7, but I think he will win 4-5 in a shorter span than Brady did. Brady had the incredible second act to his career after the 10 year gap between Super Bowls #3 and #4. I can see Mahomes winning all his in the next few years and being out of the game by age 35-36.
I didn't realize until scrolling social media this morning that the guy who signed the national anthem was Troy Kotsur, who won an Oscar for CODA. I think he was on screen for only a few seconds.
Now back to game and refball talk...
Now back to game and refball talk...
I disagree with this. I think medical technology will keep him in the game into his 40s, and he seems to have that desire to play as long as possible. He's already talking about trying to catch Brady and how long he has to go, I think he want to smash all of his records. And while we're add it, I think Reid wants to ultimately top Belichick, and thinks Mahomes can get him there. All of that rhetoric about possibly retiring is just as much theater as Mahomes' ankle.
You'll get it for the 2026 season. Of course, SB Sunday will also be Valentine's Day.
If they move to 18 games wouldn't it be on 2/21 instead? But YIKES to the idea of SB Sunday on V day
I will say one thing that I don't think is getting lost but probably deserves appreciation on the Reid/Mahomes of it all. The offensive supporting cast for Patrick Mahomes has an obviously great TE that opens up the field a ton, but the RBs were Jerick McKinnon and Isaac Pacheco and the WR were Kadarius Toney, Juju Smith Schuster, Marques Valdez-Scantling, Justin Watson, and Skyy Moore. I think if most teams had that group of guys we'd be openly wondering where the scoring is coming from (like that batch is probably worse than what Mac Jones was playing with this year talent wise, though Kelce is infinitely better than what they put out at TE performance wise), and the Eagles had no answers for whatever KC was doing in the second half. I'm not exactly rooting for the Chiefs or anything but that offensive performance with that group of skill players, especially over the past handful of years where we see guys like Kupp, Chase, Jefferson, etc. just take over games at the end is truly impressive.
This isn't to make an argument on Mahomes/Brady or anything or whether the penalty ruined a great game (still for me it did to some extent) - even for a Pats forum I think some folks are being premature and might be underrating how hard it is to win a Super Bowl or to last as long as Tom Brady did - just a bit of admiration that a team that lost a player considered their skill position X factor (Hill) and lead running back (CEH) really just gave a very high end defense some fits.
This isn't to make an argument on Mahomes/Brady or anything or whether the penalty ruined a great game (still for me it did to some extent) - even for a Pats forum I think some folks are being premature and might be underrating how hard it is to win a Super Bowl or to last as long as Tom Brady did - just a bit of admiration that a team that lost a player considered their skill position X factor (Hill) and lead running back (CEH) really just gave a very high end defense some fits.
And the Dudliest of them came at the expense of Peyton Manning, so no loss really.
Ha, I don't count that as a dud. It was my favorite ever non-Patriots Super Bowl.
Was thinking along the lines of Ravens-Giants, Seattle-Pittsburgh, Raiders-Bucs.
Is that official? If the season follows its normal start the week after Labor Day, that would put the game on February 7th.
If they do it by then, yeah. I think the 17-game schedule is part of this CBA though which goes through 2030?
I think the Chiefs come up with some of the most creative and innovative game plans and designs I've ever seen. Sometimes it looks goofy (like the merry go round play at the goal line) especially when it doesn't work, but man they really, really know what they're doing. Shows you the value of excellent offensive coaching. That plus having an otherworldly talent at QB like Mahomes. Those two things allows you to do an awful lot.
But here's what's interesting... with all that great coaching and with Mahomes and Kelce and (until this year), Hill, here's what the Chiefs have ranked in terms of points scored: 1, 5, 6, 4, 1. That's an average of 3.4.
The Patriots, from 2007-2018, ranked the following in points scored: 1, 8, 6, 1, 3, 1, 3, 4, 3, 3, 2, 4. And the 8 was with Cassel, and the 6 was with Brady in his first year back from injury and clearly wasn't back to full death star status. That's an average (with Brady) of 2.8.
In terms of raw points scored (not counting NE's 2008 season):
KC: 2465, for an average of 30.4 a game
NE: 5316, for an average of 30.2 a game
So as incredible as this Chiefs' offense has been, the Pats under Brady were every bit as good.
Man...remember what it was like when the Pats had this kind of offense? I miss those days.
The Super Bowl is always the second Sunday with a 17-game schedule. That's the only year the second Sunday and third Monday are consecutive days.
In regards to comments about Mahomes faking his injury or being overly dramatic...I mean, are you just jealous because an athlete that doesn't play on the team we root for showed some big time toughness? Are you becoming the exact sort of person that were claiming that itw as ketchup on the sock? Come on now...who cares? The guy pulled through with some great runs when it mattered the most. Who cares if he was severely injured, somewhat injured, not injured at all...he deserves whatever credit he gets.
Also, I don't get what anyone is saying...I thought this was a GREAT game, and I hate both the teams. Sure, that last penalty call was a little ticky tack, but it's pretty doubtful that cost the Eagles the game. Maybe they shouldn't have blown a 10pt halftime lead.
Also, I don't get what anyone is saying...I thought this was a GREAT game, and I hate both the teams. Sure, that last penalty call was a little ticky tack, but it's pretty doubtful that cost the Eagles the game. Maybe they shouldn't have blown a 10pt halftime lead.
Yup. I really didn't want to see the Chiefs win and I'm of the opinion the call ruined the game, but Mahomes is incredible and Reid is a great coach. To ignore that is to be an unreasonable hater.
I like Pacheco, Juju, and Toney enough, but even with Kelce it's not a top tier collection of skill player talent and probably closer to the bottom than not. Really incredible to deliver on the idea behind the Hill trade so quickly.
This was a very Patriots-esque win for the Chiefs. All three phases. A turnover on defense, a big special teams play, spreading the ball around on offense. Add in the superior coaching and they looked like the Patriots did for 20 years. You even have the entire country hating on them too.
Amazing really. For all the "you've gotta have an elite #1 WR in today's game", the Chiefs let one of the very best elite #1 WRs in the world go (Tyreek) and promptly won the Super Bowl with a lot less talent at WR than they've had in years.
And no, Kelce isn't a #1 WR. He's an all-world tight end, which obviously counts for a lot (hello Gronk), but he's still a TE, not a WR. He routinely is matched up against linebackers and safeties; corners don't cover him. Big difference.
And no, Kelce isn't a #1 WR. He's an all-world tight end, which obviously counts for a lot (hello Gronk), but he's still a TE, not a WR. He routinely is matched up against linebackers and safeties; corners don't cover him. Big difference.
Where do the KC and Philly offensive lines rank in the league?
I think when you have QB talents like Mahomes and Hurts, different skill sets and all, great o-line play matters for them more than elite skill position players.
I think when you have QB talents like Mahomes and Hurts, different skill sets and all, great o-line play matters for them more than elite skill position players.
Eh. I think this is good talent recognition too. Pacheco is really good, to my eye he looks better than what they had last year and Kelce is unstoppable against almost everything (especially any zone coverage if Mahomes doesn't get pressured immediately). The WRs are maybe all #2s but they're not terrible and obviously they all work together well.
Corners don't cover Kelce because he would just outmuscle them for the ball. A HoF TE like Kelce is perhaps more valuable than a star WR because he's basically uncoverable outside of a handful of the best LBs or super-strong safeties.
I don't think anyone is saying you need to have a #1 WR but rather you need to have a top receiving threat. It's just, there aren't a lot of TEs like Kelce.
I don't like Mahomes. I also don't think he faked the injury. The part that i really don't like is the media narrative and how they all fawn over him. Sure, he is a great QB, no questioning that. But man sometimes you would think that Mahomes is paying all their bills.
Yep, I was thinking the same thing last night. Reminded me of the Patriots in their prime SB run in making all the plays when they needed them.
It also reminded me a bit of the 2017 (season) Superbowl against the Eagles except the Chiefs got the one monster defensive TD play that the Patriots couldn't get in that game. Otherwise it felt quite similar.
I mean, the Chiefs have all-time greats in Mahomes and Kelce. They are complete outliers. Look at what Brown did in the game and for Philly all year. His presence made Jalen Hurts a much, much better QB.
To each their own, but I don't understand this kind of 'sports hate'. They fawn all over Mahomes because he is an other-wordly talent playing the most important position, by far, in the game. To me the media reaction isn't nearly as detestable as it was for Jeter, who was an above average player making a notable, but limited, impact for his juggernaut team.
Plus, Mahomes comes across as a decent enough guy. He's no try-hard, poseur like Travis Kelce.
Agreed. I'm just saying that what KC has done is amazing. To get rid of an all-world talent like Hill and promptly win the Super Bowl? Incredible.
Absolutely. We’re going to see a decade of Mahomes turning a revolving door of guys into top threats. He is just that good. Just makes me appreciate the Pats 2018 title that much more. Prime Kelce and Tyreek and they went into their house and beat them.
Yep, and that wasn't even a great Pats team. #4 in points scored, #5 in yards gained, #7 in points allowed, #21 in yards allowed, just an 11-5 record. For the Pats' dynasty, it was definitely not one of the best teams.
But they went into KC, where Mahomes was the MVP, peak Kelce and Tyreek, and beat them in difficult conditions. Easily one of the best Patriots' wins of the entire BB/TB era.
I'm not sure how much even Patriots fans fully realize how ridiculous of a win that was. KC's defense was bad that year, but the offense was out of this world. They only had one home loss all year (by 1 point to the Chargers) and had just disemboweled a pretty good Colts team the week before in the divisional round. The Chiefs were just complete monsters that season and their Superbowl run should have started then, but Brady's insanity in the 4th Q and overtime forced them to delay it for a year. Prob one of the all-time great road performances under pressure by Brady in that game.
I view sports as entertainment, nothing more, nothing less and for me, that game was entertaining.
The penalty call is what it is, sort of a buzz kill for an ending, I came away from the game with a newfound respect for the Chiefs. Mahomes is an incredible talent, he does a lot with less much like Brady did for the majority of his career in New England, they also draft well and sign the key players then need to keep, not to mention they are good as signing free agents that work for them.
Their coaching is on another level, they made the proper adjustments in the second half and the Eagles had no answers, that is on Reid and their OC and DC.
I can't hate on them, give credit where credit is due, they are a wagon and will be for a long time.
And it's silly as a Patriots fan to worry about "will they be a better dynasty than ours/will Mahomes pass Brady as the GOAT".
Does any of that really matter; the Patriots had an incredible 20 or so year run, more like two dynasties in one, 2001-2007, 2011-2018, the Chiefs are on a nice 5 year run, I don't worry about how what they might end up doing and how it will reflect on the Patriots.
I'm more concerned about the Patriots winning their next playoff game, they are 0-2 in their last two, missed the playoffs two other years, the last four years have not been entertaining as a Patriots fan, they have a lot of work to do.
The penalty call is what it is, sort of a buzz kill for an ending, I came away from the game with a newfound respect for the Chiefs. Mahomes is an incredible talent, he does a lot with less much like Brady did for the majority of his career in New England, they also draft well and sign the key players then need to keep, not to mention they are good as signing free agents that work for them.
Their coaching is on another level, they made the proper adjustments in the second half and the Eagles had no answers, that is on Reid and their OC and DC.
I can't hate on them, give credit where credit is due, they are a wagon and will be for a long time.
And it's silly as a Patriots fan to worry about "will they be a better dynasty than ours/will Mahomes pass Brady as the GOAT".
Does any of that really matter; the Patriots had an incredible 20 or so year run, more like two dynasties in one, 2001-2007, 2011-2018, the Chiefs are on a nice 5 year run, I don't worry about how what they might end up doing and how it will reflect on the Patriots.
I'm more concerned about the Patriots winning their next playoff game, they are 0-2 in their last two, missed the playoffs two other years, the last four years have not been entertaining as a Patriots fan, they have a lot of work to do.