Steve Nash fired, Jacque Vaughn to Brooklyn

Ed Hillel

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All these comments from Nets management about doing the right thing…as they hire Udoka? Geesh.
 

JM3

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An insistence on getting a pick for the rights to Udoka is foolish. Get him and his contract out of there without getting into a potentially ugly lawsuit.

Sometimes it’s ok not to try to squeeze every drop of value if it means ensuring you will get what you really want, and quickly. What’s the point of a protracted negotiation to wrangle a second rounder or something?
There's no real point other than it would make the Nets look even dumber to announce they would like to hire our deposed coach & then not even be able to despite their lengthy due diligence. So it would be fun & shouldn't be protracted as they will want to sort it in the next few minutes.
 

bankshot1

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If your million dollar asset is a person who has devalued his worth to you by taking actions that led you to suspend him for a year and give him no assurances of eventual reinstatement, and you would like him to quietly walk away rather than suing you and blasting your organization in the press. And you work in a league where you have a certain image to maintain to mutiple constituencies (analogous to fans, players, other owners)

It seem obvious that the Celtics will want some sort of negotiated exit along these lines.
You pose an interesting hypothetical. I will pose facts as best I know. The Celtics did not breech a contract with poor conduct, Ime did by his own actions. And he seem e d to own his poor behavior. The Celtics were the injured party. They had to find a reasonable substitute on short notice. They did not fire Ime but suspended him and he remains under contract. Apparently for all Imes faults he retains sufficient value to coach one of the big market high profile teams with a lot of star power. The expectation that the Nets can capture free value from a competitor and likely tamper in that pursuit and this viewed as reasonable seems extraordinary to me. If Ime or the Nets want to sue for damages, discovery cuts both ways. I suspect Imes transgressions might prove far more embarrassing to him than the way the Celtics handled the suspension. The Nets have zero claim other than"we want Ime and don't want to compensate you". I would think there is a reasonable middle ground solution where the injured party is fairly compensated, the Nets get Ime and Ime continues his rehabilitation in Brooklyn.
I may be wrong.
 

Marciano490

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You pose an interesting hypothetical. I will pose facts as best I know. The Celtics did not breech a contract with poor conduct, Ime did by his own actions. And he seem e d to own his poor behavior. The Celtics were the injured party. They had to find a reasonable substitute on short notice. They did not fire Ime but suspended him and he remains under contract. Apparently for all Imes faults he retains sufficient value to coach one of the big market high profile teams with a lot of star power. The expectation that the Nets can capture free value from a competitor and likely tamper in that pursuit and this viewed as reasonable seems extraordinary to me. If Ime or the Nets want to sue for damages, discovery cuts both ways. I suspect Imes transgressions might prove far more embarrassing to him than the way the Celtics handled the suspension. The Nets have zero claim other than"we want Ime and don't want to compensate you". I would think there is a reasonable middle ground solution where the injured party is fairly compensated, the Nets get Ime and Ime continues his rehabilitation in Brooklyn.
I may be wrong.
I agree. If Ime was thinking about suing, there’d be rumblings already. I don’t think there’s any chance that a youngish public figure wants to air any of this in public, and it’s weird people are phrasing it like the Celtics might be embarrassed or put out by the litigation such that they’d help this apparent scumbag get right back to work after a couple week’s vacay.

What the Nets are doing here is predatory and despicable, like when the Chiefs draft or sign players whose value is depressed by bad conduct.
 

mcpickl

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I agree. If Ime was thinking about suing, there’d be rumblings already. I don’t think there’s any chance that a youngish public figure wants to air any of this in public, and it’s weird people are phrasing it like the Celtics might be embarrassed or put out by the litigation such that they’d help this apparent scumbag get right back to work after a couple week’s vacay.

What the Nets are doing here is predatory and despicable, like when the Chiefs draft or sign players whose value is depressed by bad conduct.
He has no reason to sue, yet.

If the Celtics don't want to pay him, and don't want to let another team who's willing to pay him do so without being compensated, that's an issue.

It's kinda hard to say, we don't want this guy to coach for us anymore, we don't want to pay the remainder of his contract, but we do want you to compensate us to let you do so.

The Celtics wheeled Udoka out to the street in a garbage can, the Nets came by garbage picking and now we want the Celtics to demand payment?

I agree what the Nets are doing is despicable. Would also be pretty gross for the Celtics to try to extract an asset from a despicable situation.
 

EvilEmpire

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Eh. I would be little surprised if the Celtics hadn't made it known in NBA channels that Ime was available for free before the Nets did anything.

Beyond the financial aspect of it, what were they going to do when Ime's suspension was complete? Give him his job back?

They didn't want to fire him. Maybe they felt they couldn't. But it sure seems they didn't want him back either.

Now he's not coming back. Problem solved and they can move on.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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There's no real point other than it would make the Nets look even dumber to announce they would like to hire our deposed coach & then not even be able to despite their lengthy due diligence. So it would be fun & shouldn't be protracted as they will want to sort it in the next few minutes.
Once again, from where I sit, the Nets are removing a huge liability from the Celtics with this hire. My guess is that the Nets see it this way too or else they are hiring the next name down KDs list rather than pay draft/player comp to hire someone like Ime.

The collateral damage from whatever dirt Udoka was doing feels pretty significant for Boston. They lost a good coach as well as continuity and now he is working with a rival and they get nothing in return. Its hard not to see Boston both happy that this is resolved and also wearing the most pain outside of the non-Udoka individuals involved.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I'd think of it as "Ime in exchange for owners willingness to spend $2 mil incrementally more this year on a ring chaser"
 

radsoxfan

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Exactly. Parties settle for peace of mind all the time.
100%.

No one would expect the Celtics to get something of much value given the fact that he's currently suspended for a year and unlikely to return.

It's not like Ime just coached them to a title and suddenly wants out.

Makes no sense to drag this out for some 2nd round pick or fringe rotation guy.
 

JM3

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Once again, from where I sit, the Nets are removing a huge liability from the Celtics with this hire. My guess is that the Nets see it this way too or else they are hiring the next name down KDs list rather than pay draft/player comp to hire someone like Ime.

The collateral damage from whatever dirt Udoka was doing feels pretty significant for Boston. They lost a good coach as well as continuity and now he is working with a rival and they get nothing in return. Its hard not to see Boston both happy that this is resolved and also wearing the most pain outside of the non-Udoka individuals involved.
Yes... but think of all the fun...

Don't get me wrong, I'd also let him go for free so our leverage is ~none, but YOLO.
 

joe dokes

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100%.

No one would expect the Celtics to get something of much value given the fact that he's currently suspended for a year and unlikely to return.

It's not like Ime just coached them to a title and suddenly wants out.

Makes no sense to drag this out for some 2nd round pick or fringe rotation guy.
Post suspension, the celtics had no leaks and udoka didn't make a stink. This resolution fits the pattern.
 

bankshot1

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Once again, from where I sit, the Nets are removing a huge liability from the Celtics with this hire. My guess is that the Nets see it this way too or else they are hiring the next name down KDs list rather than pay draft/player comp to hire someone like Ime.

The collateral damage from whatever dirt Udoka was doing feels pretty significant for Boston. They lost a good coach as well as continuity and now he is working with a rival and they get nothing in return. Its hard not to see Boston both happy that this is resolved and also wearing the most pain outside of the non-Udoka individuals involved.
What specifically is the huge liability? Is it financial or reputational? Or? Ime was reportedly working under a modest 4yr 3M per deal. The remaining roughly $9M owed is a rounding error for most NBA teams. And what reputational damage does the injured party carry? The expectation that the Celtics give up the value they helped create and give it to a rival for nothing and for years is a brand of business negotiating I'm not familiar with. AND the precedent is hugely damaging.
 

PedroKsBambino

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You really think this news has any bearing on whether ownership is willing to spend to improve this team?
No idea, honestly....though I will say in my view this ownership group has a good track record of spending when they can win, and fiscal discipline otherwise. So, at a minimum, I find it conceivable that they have an internal budget such that saving a couple million here may impact what they are willing to spend, yes.
 

joe dokes

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What specifically is the huge liability? Is it financial or reputational? Or? Ime was reportedly working under a modest 4yr 3M per deal. The remaining roughly $9M owed is a rounding error for most NBA teams. And what reputational damage does the injured party carry? The expectation that the Celtics give up the value they helped create and give it to a rival for nothing and for years is a brand of business negotiating I'm not familiar with. AND the precedent is hugely damaging.
Liability maybe not in the legal sense. He became your asshole cousin living rent free in the basement who won't leave.
"Oh look. Uncle Earl will take him in. I know, I'll make earl pay the costs of cleaning up all the spilled bongwater." Great way to keep the guy in your basement.
Celtics weren't going to do anything to put sand in the gears of the move. It's understandable.
 

OnWisc

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Tsai has prepared an elaborate object lesson for Kyrie. Just make sure the offensive comments are texted, not tweeted.

EDIT: I guess it’s not that elaborate.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yes... but think of all the fun...

Don't get me wrong, I'd also let him go for free so our leverage is ~none, but YOLO.
I hear you on the entertainment value and stories like this or a negotiation between two teams over comp definitely is interesting.

I will say this - from the outside, the Cs handled this well all things considered. Their ability to accept the situation they were placed in and react decisively isn't something we always see from professional sports teams.

Other ownership/management might have decided that they simply couldn't stomach freeing a person like Udoka, even with the economic relief. Kudos to them for recognizing the value in moving on, even if it means potentially helping both Brooklyn and Udoka out in the process.
 

bankshot1

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Liability maybe not in the legal sense. He became your asshole cousin living rent free in the basement who won't leave.
"Oh look. Uncle Earl will take him in. I know, I'll make earl pay the costs of cleaning up all the spilled bongwater." Great way to keep the guy in your basement.
Celtics weren't going to do anything to put sand in the gears of the move. It's understandable.
If the Nets want him I would tell them he is currently suspended and unavailable this year but perhaps at year end after the suspension has been served if you remain interested we can discuss the issue.
 

EvilEmpire

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What specifically is the huge liability? Is it financial or reputational? Or? Ime was reportedly working under a modest 4yr 3M per deal. The remaining roughly $9M owed is a rounding error for most NBA teams. And what reputational damage does the injured party carry? The expectation that the Celtics give up the value they helped create and give it to a rival for nothing and for years is a brand of business negotiating I'm not familiar with. AND the precedent is hugely damaging.
If they were willing to give him his job back once the suspension was over, sure. But it doesn't seem that way.

They basically fired him on the cheap. The Celtics did good here.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I googled for options, came up with this doozy:

“Referred to as the Jail Blazers by disgruntled viewers, the team featured Ruben Patterson (a registered sex offender), Zach Randolph (DUI and known for punching Patterson during practice), Damon Stoudamire (multiple marijuana charges, speeding while under the influence), Qyntel Woods (marijuana charge and arrested for participation in a dog fighting operation) and Shawn Kemp (cocaine and alcohol abuse).

The most classy displays were from Bonzi Wells, who said that the fans didn't matter to them, and Rasheed Wallace, who had the record for most technical fouls and threatened referee Tim Donaghy after a game.”
I can’t believe I forgot about them! I read an awesome book about that team a few years back, “Jailblazers”. There was so much wrong with that team and the author goes into Dee detail.

Give it a read, I bet you’d like it.
 

joe dokes

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If the Nets want him I would tell them he is currently suspended and unavailable this year but perhaps at year end after the suspension has been served if you remain interested we can discuss the issue.
They could do that . But that's at least one more day cousin is in your basement, and you just want him gone.
And now he's gone.
Suspended with the least conceivable amount of chaos, all things considered. Managed not to cloud the season start under the new guy.
Sent away the same way. If that's the goal, that's how you do it.
 

Auger34

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I'm not convinced that Kyrie will be sticking around much longer. To me, firing Nash and bringing in Ime seems like a move to make Durant happy before they try to do a partial reset post-Kyrie.
KD bristled at Steve Kerr who seems like one of the bigger players coaches around. He talked Steve Nash into taking the head coaching job for the Nets before deciding that he actually didn’t want him around.

Ime was an assistant there but it’s only a matter of time before Durant turns on him too. I find it hard to believe that Durant will love Udoka’s penchant for calling out players in public and yelling at them about effort.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Didn’t Cleveland extort an extra 2d out of us after agreeing to the initial Kyrie deal? For basically no good reason?

Celtics could say of course, perfectly willing to let Ime go, want to move on, but we do need SOME compensation for our loss. Option to swap firsts in 2028 (or something similar; Nets seem to have little over the next few years).
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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All these comments from Nets management about doing the right thing…as they hire Udoka? Geesh.
It's almost like a professional sports team was just paying lip service, and somehow people fell for it for the 10 billionth time.

If they hire Ime, they can't cut Kyrie. The tabloid stories about prioritizing religion over women write themselves.

Not that they were going to anyway. They certainly aren't considering bringing in Ime so they can blow up the roster.

People still think they're cutting Kyrie?
 

Reverend

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Didn’t the Celtics already say they were open to him looking at positions with other teams awhile ago?
 

The Mort Report

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Didn’t Cleveland extort an extra 2d out of us after agreeing to the initial Kyrie deal? For basically no good reason?

Celtics could say of course, perfectly willing to let Ime go, want to move on, but we do need SOME compensation for our loss. Option to swap firsts in 2028 (or something similar; Nets seem to have little over the next few years).
I would imagine the best they could try to extract is a protected 2nd. Even if it was an unprotected 2nd I don't think the C's would be willing to take the chance of killing the deal over a pick they can essentially buy. They get a clean cut from Ime and that's probably what they value over any pick
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Celtics should hire Nash as an assistant coach just for laughs.
They won't because they do not want to be seen as putting a bullseye on Mazzulla's back.

A tricky part of this situation is that the Celtic players wanted Ime and liked him, and would have been happy to have him back as their coach had nothing untoward happened. They also seem to like Mazzulla, but soon the guy they wanted all along to be their coach will be coaching against them.
 

Freddy Linn

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Where it rains. No, seriously.
I can’t believe I forgot about them! I read an awesome book about that team a few years back, “Jailblazers”. There was so much wrong with that team and the author goes into Dee detail.

Give it a read, I bet you’d like it.
A lot of their shenanigans happened in my town. In fact, my daughter was at a Halloween party at the infamous Blazer hideout just the other night. Ruben Patterson and Qyntel Woods were not there.
 

Cellar-Door

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The problem with the idea of holding out for some minor piece from BKN is...... good chance they just say, okay we'll hire someone else.

This is like having an old appliance that you can't throw away due to environmental regs, you're going to have to pay someone to pick it up. Then a guy in a pickup shows up and says "hey are you throwing that away? I'll take it."

You don't try to get him to give you $20 for it, you say... "It's yours" because he just saved you $50.
 

JM3

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KD bristled at Steve Kerr who seems like one of the bigger players coaches around. He talked Steve Nash into taking the head coaching job for the Nets before deciding that he actually didn’t want him around.

Ime was an assistant there but it’s only a matter of time before Durant turns on him too. I find it hard to believe that Durant will love Udoka’s penchant for calling out players in public and yelling at them about effort.
KD's issues with Kerr seem to relate to the Warriors not being tough enough on him & Draymond after their fight & Kerr complaining about KD's use of social media.

I assume KD would like a coach who calls players out for things that happen on the court & hold them accountable for that stuff.

Plus IME can't judge KD's phone usage. Win/win.
 

Cellar-Door

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yeah, KD is surly and too online, but unlike Kyrie he wants an involved coach. He was reportedly pissed last year that Nash basically didn't have an offense once Kyrie got back.
 

OnWisc

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The problem with the idea of holding out for some minor piece from BKN is...... good chance they just say, okay we'll hire someone else.

This is like having an old appliance that you can't throw away due to environmental regs, you're going to have to pay someone to pick it up. Then a guy in a pickup shows up and says "hey are you throwing that away? I'll take it."

You don't try to get him to give you $20 for it, you say... "It's yours" because he just saved you $50.
This is the simile I’ve been looking for. Though even if it’s not a good chance they hire someone else, and only a small chance, you still just take the gift and cut bait.

If Ime makes a material difference for the Nets, it’s not like any comp we get back will offset that. Unless we make it conditional. Can we make it conditional?
 

DJnVa

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A lot of their shenanigans happened in my town. In fact, my daughter was at a Halloween party at the infamous Blazer hideout just the other night. Ruben Patterson and Qyntel Woods were not there.
As far as you know.
 

Reverend

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yeah, KD is surly and too online, but unlike Kyrie he wants an involved coach. He was reportedly pissed last year that Nash basically didn't have an offense once Kyrie got back.
TNT team pointed out that the team Nash had signed up for, i.e. KD, Kyrie, and Harding, played 16 games together last year.

Edit: They’ve been talking about the Nets a lot.
 

InstaFace

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The Celtics should absolutely demand compensation. Udoka is a very good coach, and having him run the Nets make the Nets a better team.

Looking at it from Brooklyn’s point of you, if Udoka can coach up the superstars on this team, does it really matter if they don’t get the 20th pic next year. Conversely, if they get a different coach that will put up with the circus, they might get the eighth pick, but have a disgruntled Kevin Durant who wants to leave.

I do like the idea of Udoka grabbing Kyrie by the neck in private, telling him to stop fucking up his money with Kylie’s bullshit. Coaches normally don’t go to war with their superstar players, but Kyrie has one foot out the door already. I have a feeling that Kevin Durant, who has other business interests besides basketball would love to have a strong coach that can keep Kyrie in check
Look, it's not like Wyc Grousbeck has ever won any trades with the Nets by exploiting their over-eagerness to make a deal and their desire to get a Celtics asset at any cost.
 
Last edited:

djbayko

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I agree. If Ime was thinking about suing, there’d be rumblings already. I don’t think there’s any chance that a youngish public figure wants to air any of this in public, and it’s weird people are phrasing it like the Celtics might be embarrassed or put out by the litigation such that they’d help this apparent scumbag get right back to work after a couple week’s vacay.

What the Nets are doing here is predatory and despicable, like when the Chiefs draft or sign players whose value is depressed by bad conduct.
If Ime thought he might even consider suing in the future, wouldn't he have been ill advised to publish the apology saying "I am sorry for putting the team in this difficult situation, and I accept the team's decision."? It always seemed to me like he acknowledged his culpability and wanted to move on.
 

InstaFace

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An insistence on getting a pick for the rights to Udoka is foolish. Get him and his contract out of there without getting into a potentially ugly lawsuit.

Sometimes it’s ok not to try to squeeze every drop of value if it means ensuring you will get what you really want, and quickly. What’s the point of a protracted negotiation to wrangle a second rounder or something?
"what's the point of asking for another pick swap on top of the 3 firsts they already agreed to? what difference could it make? Haven't we squeezed them enough already?"

and that pick swap, kids, turned into Jayson Tatum.
 

Mystic Merlin

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"what's the point of asking for another pick swap on top of the 3 firsts they already agreed to? what difference could it make? Haven't we squeezed them enough already?"

and that pick swap, kids, turned into Jayson Tatum.
Yeah, that’s definitely on the table here and/or worth holding out for.
 

McBride11

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Why not get something? They arent paying him while suspended. Nothing has really been discussed I have seen recently
Just suspend him again next and the year after.?
If Ime wants out he can break the contract no?