So, 19 at-bats and Travis Shaw is a shoe-in?

Laser Show

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Pablo might want to get a new agent. Say what you will about him being pissed about being benched but that comparison was destined to get blown up and ridiculed.
 

luckysox

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Oh man, this cannot end well. I so want to defend the guy...it's in my nature. I defended Carl Crawford, I defended an Hanley all last season, and Nomar when he was a jerk face, and I even defended Lugo for a few minutes. And you know what? I've had weight issues my whole life, so I really, really feel for Pablo Sandoval. But it's hard to defend a guy who showed up in the shape of an ACTUAL giant panda and then proved that being in said shape does not allow him to defend his position, and then when he got beat out for said position, called his agent to whine and somehow found a way to compare himself (through the agent, but still, does it matter??) to a car that is literally the opposite of how he looks or performs. He is done in Boston now. Done. This will go over like a leaden, flaming Hindenburg being driven by Johnny from Burger King, who crashes into the bathroom during the 2nd inning because he's texting.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Oh dear, this will not end well. Panda's agent just chummed the water, and the media already had that hunger.

Just ask HUNGRY Nick Cafardo.

DDski pretty much has to unload this guy now for nothing, or April is going to be an absolute disaster in the clubhouse.
 

rembrat

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Oh dear, this will not end well. Panda's agent just chummed the water, and the media already had that hunger.

Just ask HUNGRY Nick Cafardo.

DDski pretty much has to unload this guy now for nothing, or April is going to be an absolute disaster in the clubhouse.
The quote is spectacular but this is when having a John Farrell, leader of men and protector of the clubhouse, is a huge plus. He isn't going to let this torpedo the camaraderie and I get a sense that no one, even the veterans, are running to Pablo's defense.
 

koufax32

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You have to think this was a FO leak, no? I know LL isn't around anymore but the agent is dumb enough for allegedly saying this. He'd be exponentially more so if he also leaked it. After the last decade of Larry Leaks (or whomever) this just smells like the start of a smear attempt.
 

Danny_Darwin

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You have to think this was a FO leak, no? I know LL isn't around anymore but the agent is dumb enough for allegedly saying this. He'd be exponentially more so if he also leaked it. After the last decade of Larry Leaks (or whomever) this just smells like the start of a smear attempt.
Tough to tell from a tweet, but it looks like an on-the-record statement to Heyman. No "leaking" necessary.
 

Al Zarilla

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Of course the SF Bay Area is running with Pablo's agent's comment: "You know who owns Ferrari, right? No, who? Fiat (Fix it again, Tony)". "Not Feed it again, Tony?"
 

moondog80

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At what point would you be comfortable giving him away? With another team paying 75% of his deal (obviously yes)? 50% (probably)? 25% (not sure)?
 

Saints Rest

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At what point would you be comfortable giving him away? With another team paying 75% of his deal (obviously yes)? 50% (probably)? 25% (not sure)?
I asked elsewhere (can't remember which thread): What is the most that a team has ever eaten to get a player off the roster, either in terms of cutting them, or in regards to paying him to play on another team? Texas gave the MFY's a lot to take ARod back in 2003 as I recall. Jason Giambi? Mo Vaughn? Mike Hampton?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I asked elsewhere (can't remember which thread): What is the most that a team has ever eaten to get a player off the roster, either in terms of cutting them, or in regards to paying him to play on another team? Texas gave the MFY's a lot to take ARod back in 2003 as I recall. Jason Giambi? Mo Vaughn? Mike Hampton?

It was answered in the thread you asked. The Angels ate about $63 to send Josh Hamilton back to Texas.
 

Harry Hooper

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Man. I feel like Nick Cafardo.

Then who was waiting by the phone for Morgan to get canned? I could have sworn that it was Herzog. Oh well, live and learn.

It was Joe Torre. Lou Gorman and Joe had agreed to terms, but then Morgan Magic happened. It's probably #3 on the all-time Red Sox/Yankees what-ifs list behind Ruth being sent out of Boston and the Joe DiMaggio-Ted Williams trade not being brought to fruition.

Edit: Whoops, I missed curly2's post.
 
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Papelbon's Poutine

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It was Joe Torre. Lou Gorman and Joe had agreed to terms, but then Morgan Magic happened. It's probably #3 on the all-time Red Sox/Yankees what-ifs list behind Ruth being sent out of Boston and the Joe Dimaggio- Ted Williams trade not being brought to fruition.

Edit: Whoops, I missed curly2's post.
Bwahahaha what is the what-if? What if we had our manager pick his nose on tv multiple times a game? What if he could have burned out relievers in Boston?

Torre did shit as a manager outside of his tenure with the Yankees when he was handed easily the most perfect storm of farm system maturation, deep pockets and shrewd trades. He was sub 500 with the Cardinals during the same time period we are talking, so unless you think that Hobson and Kennedy derailed teams that were as similarly stacked as the Yankees of the mid to late 90s, I'm not seeing where the what if comes in. He would have gotten canned in Boston long before the Sox had talent capable of competing for a WS.

I'm in the camp that most managers are by default at least somewhat overrated. Torre is easily the most overrated manager in the modern game.
 

Harry Hooper

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Bwahahaha what is the what-if? What if we had our manager pick his nose on tv multiple times a game? What if he could have burned out relievers in Boston?

Torre did shit as a manager outside of his tenure with the Yankees when he was handed easily the most perfect storm of farm system maturation, deep pockets and shrewd trades. He was sub 500 with the Cardinals during the same time period we are talking, so unless you think that Hobson and Kennedy derailed teams that were as similarly stacked as the Yankees of the mid to late 90s, I'm not seeing where the what if comes in. He would have gotten canned in Boston long before the Sox had talent capable of competing for a WS.

I'm in the camp that most managers are by default at least somewhat overrated. Torre is easily the most overrated manager in the modern game.
Agree with the bolded, but then he likely never gets a MLB managing job with anyone after that. I think you undersell Torre's talents in keeping the players' focus on winning games within the Bronx Zoo.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Agree with the bolded, but then he likely never gets a MLB managing job with anyone after that. I think you undersell Torre's talents in keeping the players' focus on winning games within the Bronx Zoo.
What would be different about getting fired from Boston than how he got fired in St Louis? Because NY scooped him right up after that.

We can debate if I'm underselling him or not but the original question remains: why do you rank that as the #3 Sox/Yankees what if? Because I don't see how it means much of anything.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Why? Simply "accepting it" kinda of gives off the impression he really doesn't give a shit about his playing time, or his team.
Right, and the alternative approach is almost "Bull Durham"-level boilerplate:

"It's frustrating, because I always want to play. But I understand John's got to decide what's best for the club. Travis has played really well and earned the opportunity. I'll just keep working and try to make it hard to keep me on the bench."

Every player should have that memorized by the time they reach MLB.
 

lexrageorge

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For those that keep insisting that Sandoval is somehow Farrell's fault:

Recall that Panda was by far the worst defensive 3B in all of MLB last year. Then he was a disaster at 3B in spring training before getting hurt making a play. And he was signed by Cherington in no small part because of his defense, despite an obvious decline in evidence. So why is Farrell somehow at fault for managing with desperation because he benched Sandoval? What exactly has Panda done to deserve the benefit of any doubt?

Farrell had no real option at 3B last year. Plus an argument could be made that Sandoval was adjusting to new league, new infield, etc. This year, he has an alternative, who appears to be a lot better defensively and possibly Sandoval's equal at the plate. Let's give Farrell some credit here.
 

timlinin8th

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Right, and the alternative approach is almost "Bull Durham"-level boilerplate:

"It's frustrating, because I always want to play. But I understand John's got to decide what's best for the club. Travis has played really well and earned the opportunity. I'll just keep working and try to make it hard to keep me on the bench."

Every player should have that memorized by the time they reach MLB.
This is pretty much word-for-word the post I had typed before seeing this... Involved "Travis has had a spectacular spring and has earned it" and "my job now is to keep working on myself and when the club calls on me to show them the skills I have"
 

benhogan

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Why? Simply "accepting it" kinda of gives off the impression he really doesn't give a shit about his playing time, or his team.
The reaction moondog was after - "I'm disappointed in myself" - isn't one that I can imagine any professional athlete expressing in Sandoval's situation.

These guys are intensely competitive and the have an almost delusional confidence in their own ability. So while they are team players, that attitude is essentially 100% continent on an alignment between the team's success and their own contribution to that success. And if they are not contributing to that success, they are bitter, because their belief is that they should be.

BTW, that's not a criticism - it's reality. MLB players have persevered through years of being told they were not good enough for a variety of reasons. And only the combination of persistence and ability allowed them to overcome the doubters and the odds. Which tends to build a (sometimes false) sense of arrogant confidence in them.

This behavior isn't necessarily conducive to success in any other aspect of life. (Curt Schilling can attest to this.). But in terms of their athletic achievements, they are trained to believe in themselves above all else and for an athlete like Sadoval that attitude has paid off, even if he's going through difficulties now.

So regardless of what the "correct" answer is for the team, to expect an athlete like this to have an objective, unbiased perspective and express disappointment in himself is to not understand the mindset that got him there in the first place.
 

Plympton91

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Meanwhile, what has Shaw done lately, including against AA pitchers?
Seems to me the decision was about what Shaw could do in the field relative to Panda's impersonation of a stone-hands statue with an inaccurate arm, and that any difference in their offensive production was a distant secondary factor.
 

joe dokes

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KFu

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End of May and Panda hasn't earned his job back and I'm getting hella nervous. Best case is they both prove their worth as starters and Sox move Pablo.
 

geoduck no quahog

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It's not going overboard to say that a team won't go through the season without losing one of its infielders to the DL. The depth chart should have read: Holt (SS, 2B) and Shaw (3B, 1B). It now reads Holt -> Castillo/Young; Shaw/Ramirez -> Sandoval. There are 2 ways to look at that. The optimist says having Sandoval and Castillo as backups is pretty damn good. The pessimist says losing Holt and Shaw as backups sucks. A plus 3B and left fielder would have been great but not every team is stacked 1-9 (What team is? Jays, I guess).

Today I think the biggest crapfest is not having good (realistic) trade bait for a solid #2 starter that's not named Devers, Moncada, Espinoza or Benintendi. I doubt Travis brings much. What sucks is not having a Holt or Shaw to dangle because they're essential, and Castillo has proven suck.

The trees are Sandoval and Castillo. The forest is the rotation.

I need to type something on opening day...so have at it.
 

Yossarian

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What sucks is not having a Holt or Shaw to dangle because they're essential, and Castillo has proven suck.

Reading the above makes me ill because written like that, it brings home the fact that the context here is that Ben's biggest free agency signings over the last year-plus were so supremely godawful that one of them (Hanley) is playing a brand-new position while the other two (Sandoval/Castillo) have been benched in favor of decent utility players who are also playing out of position.