So, 19 at-bats and Travis Shaw is a shoe-in?

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

The Boston Herald has a piece today where John Farrell is quoted saying they're going to be playing Travis Shaw a bit in LF going forward this spring, trying to increase his versatility. Because, you know, he's "playing his way onto the team," and then we're told that Shaw "leads the team" with 2HR and 8 RBIS "all while playing solidly at 1B."

Is this just the Herald being the Herald, or are the Sox seriously seeing something in Shaw through 19 ABs?

This whole thing seems awfully premature. Surely, I'd rather Shaw makes the team than Craig, and he does seem like the 1B backup that makes the most sense, but I'm not going to get too jazzed about 19 ABs, and I can see plenty of scenarios where Holt can cover the infield in general and we don't need Shaw at all.

Shaw's definitely on the opening day roster? And is that a good thing?

 

[Rice4HOF]

I just assumed Travis Shaw was one of the Opening Day 25, regardless of his spring training showing. Obviously the 2 HR and .900 batting average (or whatever it is) is meaningless in spring training at bats, just like David Price giving up 2 HRs in 3 IPs will also have no affect on his status as the Opening Day starter.

 

[LogansDad]

Well, he was pretty solid for the second half of 2015, too, so i think they are likely using a sample size a lot larger than 19 at bats.

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

I think it's more than this years 19 at-bats that's creating the enthusiasm... He finished last year in the bigs with a respectable .813 OPS/ with 13 hr's in 226 at-bats sporting a b/avg. of .270

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

It's been pretty much a foregone conclusion since they signed Chris Young that the bench to start the year would be Young, Holt, Shaw, and the backup catcher. Giving Shaw some time in LF is just a matter of further increasing bench flexibility.

 

[johnnywayback]

Shaw definitely makes the team, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're thinking of giving him the starting 1B job. We have a chance to have our bench be a real strength with Hanigan, Holt, Shaw, and Young.

Young plays against every LHP -- how much that's him platooning CF w/ JBJ, DHing for Ortiz against the Chris Sales of the world, or just forcing Castillo off the field to get Young's bat in the lineup remains to be seen. But we'll have a lefty-killer in there against every lefty. Meanwhile, having Shaw be able to play LF against righties (who destroy Young) is a great insurance policy against Castillo completely tanking, just as his ability to hit well enough to play the corners is a great insurance policy against Hanley or Sandoval tanking. Which are the three positions I think we're most worried about. And none of this accounts for Holt's ability to play anywhere.

It's a really nice bench given what our starting lineup looks like, so I'm glad Shaw's not doing anything this spring to seem less than ready for his part of the job. And it's nice to imagine that a Sam (Travis) Shaw platoon could get the job done in 2017, meaning we could move Hanley to DH and spend our prospect/financial capital on something other than a 1B.

 

[PrometheusWakefield]

Left field?????? We have the worst player in baseball in 2015 playing third base. Travis Shaw can play third base. I have an idea: play him at third base.

 

[mauf]

I'm more bearish on Shaw than most of SoSH, but I thought it was a foregone conclusion that he'd be on the Opening Day roster. Not sure what the Herald was thinking.

Two of the three starting OFs are question marks, so testing Shaw's ability to handle LF seems like a prudent thing to do.

 

[Plympton91]

Left field?????? We have the worst player in baseball in 2015 playing third base. Travis Shaw can play third base. I have an idea: play him at third base.

Define "can"? If this team ends up with a former shortstop playing first and a career first baseman playing third, I might just have to question everyone's sanity. If your plan is to bench Sandival, let's get. Hanley over to 3B.

 

[Rasputin]

Left field?????? We have the worst player in baseball in 2015 playing third base. Travis Shaw can play third base. I have an idea: play him at third base.

Uh, he's done that. In the minors. In the majors. In spring training.

It's been pretty much a foregone conclusion since they signed Chris Young that the bench to start the year would be Young, Holt, Shaw, and the backup catcher. Giving Shaw some time in LF is just a matter of further increasing bench flexibility.

Yeah, this.

Also, Brock Holt is arb eligible in 2017. He's been an All-Star and finished in the top ten of ROY voting while playing more than a hundred games each of the past two seasons. He's going to be getting too expensive to keep as a bench option especially when we have Chris Young already being paid more than most bench options.

If Shaw can play first, third, and left, Marrerro can play short and second, and we've got three outfielders who can play center and right already. That's a post-Holt bench and it's going to work better if we know Shaw can play left so it would be nice to find that out before Holt gets expensive.

 

[moondog80]

Define "can"? If this team ends up with a former shortstop playing first and a career first baseman playing third, I might just have to question everyone's sanity. If your plan is to bench Sandival, let's get. Hanley over to 3B.

I think that ship has sailed, I can't see moving him yet again. And as I recall, he wasn't very good in his brief trial at 3B with the Marlins (when they got Reyes), and that was like a million years ago.

 

[Rasputin]

Define "can"? If this team ends up with a former shortstop playing first and a career first baseman playing third, I might just have to question everyone's sanity. If your plan is to bench Sandival, let's get. Hanley over to 3B.

Because obviously it's more important to go by ancient history rather than determining which is the better player now.

 

[Sprowl]

Is this just the Herald being the Herald, or are the Sox seriously seeing something in Shaw through 19 ABs?
...
Shaw's definitely on the opening day roster? And is that a good thing?

Shaw looked very good at the plate throughout 2015 -- patient, good strike zone judgment, willingness to go the other way, and plenty of power. Shaw also looked competent on defense at both corner infield positions. Ramirez and Sandoval are both injury-prone, so getting Shaw some innings in left field while we wait for the Pyrite Dust Twins to break down seems just good sense. There's a pretty good chance that Toolsney will never hit major league pitching, in which case having Shaw and Young available to platoon in left field seems like pretty good sense too.

 

[Plympton91]

What do stats say about Shaw at 3B? Of course they're pretty useless sample sizes? It seems crazy that if Shaw could play even a barely passable 3B, that the organization would have moved him off 3B so quickly. I guess he was riding along with Cecchini, so maybe that's why? Still, for me, the eye test says he'd be as bad as Sandoval was last year on his good days. He looks like a statue over there to me. But maybe it's been a good deal of rust.

 

[Sprowl]

What do stats say about Shaw at 3B? Of course they're pretty useless sample sizes? It seems crazy that if Shaw could play even a barely passable 3B, that the organization would have moved him off 3B so quickly. I guess he was riding along with Cecchini, so maybe that's why? Still, for me, the eye test says he'd be as bad as Sandoval was last year on his good days. He looks like a statue over there to me. But maybe it's been a good deal of rust.

The Red Sox 2015 3B stats, such as they are, say that Shaw was the best of a bad lot. As I said, my eye test reports that he looked competent.

 

[strek1]

As others have said what he showed last year and this year's ST are a pretty nice argument for finding a spot for the guy.

 

[YTF]

Like many here I thought Shaw's spot on this years roster was already set. I think trying him out in left does no harm. With a three man bench (excluding catcher) it just makes sense to have the most flexibility possible and he'll likely see VERY limited time there. There's always that one or two 14 plus inning game per year and if added flexibility makes it easier to field a competent team as the game wears on, then perhaps you've put yourself in a better position to win that game.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Like many here I thought Shaw's spot on this years roster was already set. I think trying him out in left does no harm. With a three man bench (excluding catcher) it just makes sense to have the most flexibility possible and he'll likely see VERY limited time there. There's always that one or two 14 plus inning game per year and if added flexibility makes it easier to field a competent team as the game wears on, then perhaps you've put yourself in a better position to win that game.

I agree with the bolded. Shaw will get time in LF like Mike Carp got time in LF. Only difference really is that Carp was the 5th OF on the 2013 team while Shaw is the 6th now (behind JBJ, Betts, Castillo, Young, and Holt). It will take a nagging injury or two, or a long extra inning game for Shaw to see extensive time in the outfield.

 

[TheoShmeo]

To me, the more interesting question is whether his showing last season and whatever confirmation this Spring is could lead the Sox to start him at third. It seems highly unlikely but Panda is 2-18 and perhaps playing poorly in the field. And more to the point, they might simply conclude that they will get more out of Shaw than Sandoval.

Shaw was going to make the team unless something really unexpected happened in ST.

PS: Pete Abe and Shaw address the starting possibility in here.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/03/13/travis-shaw-making-difficult-for-red-sox-not-start-him/Q6GcunBsJ5dc1iLVxGZBiL/story.html

“I’m trying to make it hard on the decision-makers not to start me,” Shaw said. “There are still three weeks of spring training to go. Nothing is set in stone.”

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

Yeah, the Globe lays it out pretty well. They don't want to pay Panda $17M to ride the pine, so it's likely he'll get the chance to start.

But if Shaw really does outplay him this spring, I think we'll see an early timeshare of sorts, with TS getting maybe 2 starts a week at 3rd, one at first (spelling Hanley/Papi), and an occasional OF game. Plus late inning substitutions at first. After a month or two, they could move Shaw into the F/T gig at 3rd if his defense is ok and Sandoval continues to suck.

So, long-term, he's probably Sandoval's biggest threat. Short-term, I think he steals some P/T from Holt, who won't play much at the corners, if at all, except maybe as a late inning defensive sub for Panda.

 

[Drek717]

What do stats say about Shaw at 3B? Of course they're pretty useless sample sizes? It seems crazy that if Shaw could play even a barely passable 3B, that the organization would have moved him off 3B so quickly. I guess he was riding along with Cecchini, so maybe that's why? Still, for me, the eye test says he'd be as bad as Sandoval was last year on his good days. He looks like a statue over there to me. But maybe it's been a good deal of rust.

A big reason he was moved was due to him being a fringe or non-prospect in a farm system with Middlebrooks and Cecchini back to back at 3B. They moved Shaw off the position quickly and never looked back. However, when Cecchini really started to fall apart they moved him back and most comments from the mL circuit last year not only pegged him as the better defensive 3B in Pawtucket, but that Shaw looked like he could field a passable ML 3B. Then he came up for the last 1/3rd or so of 2015 and did exactly that.

As for moving Hanley to 3B and playing Shaw at 1B, Hanley was a horrible 3B himself when that was attempted and he's only gotten older and slower since then. He wanted off SS because he couldn't handle the daily grind and stay healthy, moving to the hot corner isn't going to help that. Shaw is younger, has played a competent 3B at some level more recently, and has a far better durability track record. Also the club's real goal with Hanley is to find a home for him until Ortiz retires so he can earn his keep with the bat. The long term future of Shaw has yet to be determined, so being jerked around between 1B, 3B, and LF is something he'll actually embrace to get on the field more.

 

[lexrageorge]

Shaw had an 0.813 OPS with 13 HR's the second half of last season. In 2014, he had 21 HR's and a 0.826 OPS split across AA and AAA. He also had a mediocre half season with Pawtucket to start 2015. I'm quite sure those stats resonate far more with the Red Sox brass than his current spring training stats. Barring some sort of roster crunch due to an injury situation at a different position, I have trouble seeing Shaw start the season in AAA.

Hanley ain't going back to 3B. The Sox have committed to him at 1B this season. If he doesn't cut it there, his only remaining position is part time DH.

Pete Abe's article was much better than the Herald's. If Sandoval repeats his 2015, one does wonder how much patience the Sox will have with him, especially if Shaw seems like a better alternative.

Bottom line is that they really needed to move one of Ramiroval off the roster this past offseason.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

An interesting thing about Shaw is that he has not, overall, shown much of a platoon split in his pro career. He had a sizable normal platoon split in 2014, but outside of that year he's actually had a mild-to-moderate reverse split at all levels. So it would make sense to sub him for Panda vs. LHP, even though subbing a LHH for a nominal switch-hitter vs. lefties may be too outside-the-box for Farrell. A more likely source of PA vs. LHP would be subbing for Ortiz, with Hanley moving to DH. And he could also get some starts in place of Hanley vs. RHP. Overall, one could see a pattern where Ortiz, Hanley and Panda all get about 130 starts and Shaw gets most of the remaining 100 (with Holt perhaps also picking up a few starts at 3B, depending on how busy he is at the middle infield spots--hopefully not very).

 

[nvalvo]

I find players like Shaw fascinating. He is one of that handful of players who hit in the big leagues better than their minor league track record would suggest. He has a career .715 OPS in 668 PA at AAA, and a .795 in 870 PA at AA, but an .813 in 248 PA in MLB.

It's worth noting that many players with that profile flame out.

Shaw himself explains his success as a benefit of better stadium lighting in big league parks and the availability of video scouting. So maybe he can keep it up.

 

[Darnell's Son]

I find players like Shaw fascinating. He is one of that handful of players who hit in the big leagues better than their minor league track record would suggest. He has a career .715 OPS in 668 PA at AAA, and a .795 in 870 PA at AA, but an .813 in 248 PA in MLB.

It's worth noting that many players with that profile flame out.

Shaw himself explains his success as a benefit of better stadium lighting in big league parks and the availability of video scouting. So maybe he can keep it up.

This does cut both ways though. Eventually pitchers will figure him out, and that's when the real game begins. Will he be able to adjust to the pitcher's adjustments?

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

I guess the more practical question is who is the backup 1B if not Shaw? Murphy has no MLB experience there, Sam Travis still hasn't made it to AAA, and Holt will likely be needed elsewhere. They could find some NRI off the street, but why?

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

I guess we have our answer.

 

[smastroyin]

I'll give Farrell credit for being bold.

 

[glennhoffmania]

It certainly is bold. I hope I'm wrong, but I really can't see how this team is better with Holt and Shaw than Castillo and Sandoval. That's one high-profile bench they're putting together though.

 

[flymrfreakjar]

Wow, I guess we can take some things from ST performance after all. This feel unprecedented. I do think they're honestly trying to put the best team on the field, salary and track record be damned. But this just feels crazy.

 

[LogansDad]

hoff, I agree with you re: Holt/Castillo, but based on what we have seen both last season and this spring from Sandoval and Shaw, Shaw is clearly the better option right now I think. I wouldn't be surprised if Sandoval is pissed, and it's not that I would blame him, but Farrell has a job to think about, too, and Sandoval has done absolutely nothing to show that he is capable of helping Farrell keep his.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

The craziest part about this lies in the fact that this decision isn't about hitting. It's about a minor league first baseman becoming a better third baseman in one off season than Pablo Sandoval. That's the real story here. The guy just can't field.

 

[yecul]

The longevity of the decision and opportunity provided to Sandoval will be telling. If this is being done as a kick in the ass and he's in there game 2 or 3 starting to get reps, then that's one thing. If this is a true evaluation and Sandoval is now a backup, then that's quite another.

The team needs to focus on getting the best team on the field and these moves align with that, at least in the short term.

 

[NDame616]

The longevity of the decision and opportunity provided to Sandoval will be telling. If this is being done as a kick in the ass and he's in there game 2 or 3 starting to get reps, then that's one thing. If this is a true evaluation and Sandoval is now a backup, then that's quite another.

The team needs to focus on getting the best team on the field and these moves align with that, at least in the short term.

You think Farrell/DD/ownership would go through all this scrutiny of bad contracts, Panda's weight, etc just for one game? This will be a non stop discussion until opening day. I don't think they'd open themselves to all this just for one day. Shaw is the 3B until he loses the job.

 

[dynomite]

I don't exactly know how to feel.

Is this a brave and necessary decision to put the best team on the field?

Is this a stunning indictment of both the (prior?) front office and Sandoval himself, who is still owed $72 million over the next 4 seasons?

Is this a sign of a manager desperately managing for his job who fears that he could get fired if they have a bad road trip in April?

Or is this just a kick in the pants to Panda, akin to putting Manny on waivers after '03?

I'll stop there. Some of these possibilities make me feel good about the 2016 Sox. Some of them would make me deeply concerned.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

It comes down to the fact that they don't believe Pablo Sandoval can competently play third base. I didn't see it coming this quickly into the contract.

The other thing is Pablo said "This is best for the team"

Talk about a guy who seems to have given up.

 

[yecul]

What kind of split are people envisioning? 50/50, 60/40, 80/20? In any scenario Panda is getting in there and in most he's getting heavy work. Frankly, given his (supposed) pedigree and contract they'd be fairly negligent to not get him in the mix, particularly if they hope to move him someday.

So, yeah, I can see Sandoval starting the third game of the season, which would not be an indication of Shaw being the slam dunk full timer.

 

[lexrageorge]

I'm convinced this decision has a lot less to do with spring training hitting statistics, and a lot more to do with Sandoval's fielding. Farrell no longer has confidence in Panda's ability to field the position, which is where most of his value would lie with respect to a player like Shaw. Bottom line is that the team's goal is to win games, even in April and May, which count just as much in the standings as those September games. It's fair to disagree with the individual decisions, IMO. But I would definitely be on board with Farrell being told to put the best team on the field, contracts, salaries, and other sunk costs be damned.

 

[PrometheusWakefield]

What kind of split are people envisioning? 50/50, 60/40, 80/20? In any scenario Panda is getting in there and in most he's getting heavy work. Frankly, given his (supposed) pedigree and contract they'd be fairly negligent to not get him in the mix, particularly if they hope to move him someday.

So, yeah, I can see Sandoval starting the third game of the season, which would not be an indication of Shaw being the slam dunk full timer.

Personally, I'm imagining a 100/0 split.

Or, rather, a 80/20 split with Shaw getting the 80 and the 20 going to a player who can play third base, like HOLT.

Sandoval was -21.9 UZR/150. That is worse than Miguel Cabrera was in 2013 when everybody was making fun of the Tigers for putting a guy who obviously could not play the position out there every day. Only Panda sucks offensively too!

He needed to show that he could still be a third baseman in this league and he can't. So now he is crap.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

I like this, mostly because I'm still bitter over them starting last season with a guy in the OF who everybody knew couldn't physically play anymore.

 

[nattysez]

Farrell apparently said explicitly this morning that Shaw's defense, and particularly his range, is superior to Panda's right now and that that led to the move. While that may be true, it also sounds to me like code for "he's too fat." Panda has played excellent defense while heavy, but he was bad last year and that continued into ST.

 

[canderson]

If it puts the Red Sox in the best possible position to win, so be it. Pablo's shown us nothing while being here he deserves to start over basically a mediocre 3B anyway. He's been one of the worst starters in baseball at his position and this spring hasn't looked too much better from what I can tell.

Contracts be damn, the best players should play. We're seeing that.

 

[rembrat]

The craziest part about this lies in the fact that this decision isn't about hitting. It's about a minor league first baseman becoming a better third baseman in one off season than Pablo Sandoval. That's the real story here. The guy just can't field.

And the guy has no accountability as an athlete or a professional. Instead of looking back at his failed season of 2015 and using it as motivation to come into spring training in the best shape of his life he rested on his (bacon soaked) laurels. Travis Shaw should get 100% of the reps at 3B until Pablo shows us something, anything.

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

I love it...I always get psyched when someone gets a real chance to make it...

 

[grimshaw]

I'm not a Shaw believer, (though very much pulling for him), based on his inconsistent to poor minor league track record, and small sample size at the major league record. I've been surprised by his glove, so maybe his bat can be below league average and make a potential dip in production passable overall.

The cupboard is bare in the minors for the next few years (as well as a lot of MLB) so it just emphasizes again how valuable Holt is to this team to be competent everywhere.

 

[johnnywayback]

It's sort of impossible to complain about someone earning a job by playing better than the guy he's competing with. I certainly hope Shaw's the guy who had two great months last year and looked great this spring, not the guy who OPS'd under 700 at Pawtucket.

I will say, though, that the best-case scenario for the team would have been for Sandoval to start and show that he's at least not the disaster he was last year -- whether that's because (like me) you still think there's a decent major league player there or (like almost everyone else on the board) you want to trade him for a bag of nothing. He's not going to become less of an albatross sitting on the bench, y'know? So I hope Farrell is far more convinced than I am that Shaw really is an above-replacement-level 3B.

Still, like I said, hard to complain about the manager wanting competitions to mean something, hard to complain about the guy who's been more fun to watch getting the job, and hard to complain about a nice story to root for as the season gets underway.

 

[timlinin8th]

It comes down to the fact that they don't believe Pablo Sandoval can competently play third base. I didn't see it coming this quickly into the contract.

The other thing is Pablo said "This is best for the team"

Talk about a guy who seems to have given up.

This, after a few short weeks ago responding to criticisms of showing up out of shape and basically saying that he's always been on winning teams and he's got rings and that shows his talent.

Unfortunately raw talent declines as you get older and heavier. Hopefully this kick in the pants gets him to ACTUALLY start to work on getting back to form. Obviously don't wish the guy any ill will but it feels like Panda has been resting on his laurels for a while. Be nice if he can turn it around and not be contractual dead weight.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Is this a sign of a manager desperately managing for his job who fears that he could get fired if they have a bad road trip in April?

I think that this is it. Farrell doesn't have the luxury of throwing Sandoval and Castillo out in the field and hope that both of them will hit their ways out of it. He knows that he has a very, very short rope and that his successor is literally sitting five feet away from him. Incidentally that guy got the Red Sox to play the best two months of baseball that this team has done since the end of 2013, so that rope might be even shorter.

Therefore, Farrell is going to manage as if his pants are on fire. I wouldn't be surprised if Kimbrel was in every April game nailing it down and the hot-hitting position players were playing 13, 14 or 15 games in a row. If Farrell manages like his job is on the line (IE, I don't give a fuck) then this is going to be a dead-ass team in August and September.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Wow. This is something insane.

With Panda getting benched, the Sox have $170MM remaining guaranteed salary committed to 5 reserve position players.

$75.0 - Sandoval
$56.5 - Castillo
$21.0 - Craig
$13.0 - Young
$ 4.5 - Hanigan

The Sox have EXACTLY the same $170MM of guaranteed money allocated to the 9 opening day starters.

$84 - Pedroia
$66 - Ramirez
$16 - Ortiz
$ 4 - Bogaerts/Holt/Betts/Bradley/Swihart/Shaw

Who needs a Punto trade, when you can just non-roster and bench your mistakes?

The decisions might lead to the best team on the field, but I would be absolutely stunned if Cherington ever finds work as an MLB GM again.

Maybe he can coach first base?

 

[AB in DC]

You think Farrell/DD/ownership would go through all this scrutiny of bad contracts, Panda's weight, etc just for one game? This will be a non stop discussion until opening day. I don't think they'd open themselves to all this just for one day. Shaw is the 3B until he loses the job.

I agree, with the caveat that even a brief slump at the plate could open the door back to Sandoval if he starts showing something in practice. No point in wathicng Shaw turn into Willie Middlebrooks 2.0 when you've got an experienced backup right behind him.