James Wagner @JamesWagnerWP · 15m15 minutes ago
Sandy Leon says he's been traded to the Red Sox.
Probably not good news for Vazquez.
Sandy Leon says he's been traded to the Red Sox.
Probably not good news for Vazquez.
Corsi said:
James Wagner @JamesWagnerWP · 15m15 minutes ago
Sandy Leon says he's been traded to the Red Sox.
Probably not good news for Vazquez.
Leon has established the reputation as one of the finest defensive catchers in the system, but scouts have always wondered if he'd hit enough to be a big leaguer. Leon has gradually improved his offensive game to the point that he now holds his own from both sides of the plate. He'll never be better than a below-average hitter with below-average power, but he has learned to put together competitive at-bats and has a knack for providing the occasional clutch hit. Leon's defense alone is good enough to get him to the big leagues, probably as a backup but perhaps as a glove-first regular. Nationals GM Bob Boone -- who won seven Gold Gloves behind the plate -- calls Leon "a magnificent catcher" with great footwork, outstanding receiving and blocking skills, and a solid-average to plus arm with very good accuracy. He led the Carolina League by throwing out 53% of base stealers in 2011. He's an extremely slow runner who clogs up the bases.
He sprained his right ankle in a home-plate collision with Chase Headley during his big-league debut, but he returned to the majors for stints in July, August and September. Leon has made himself competitive at the plate by tweaking his set-up, getting his hands into better hitting position and improving his balance. He has learned to use all fields and put the ball in play from both sides of the plate. He won't ever hit for power, but he should be a serviceable hitter with outstanding catch-and-throw skills. Leon is a plus receiver with good footwork and agility, making him a adept at blocking balls in the dirt. His above-average arm is efficient and accurate, routinely producing pop times in the 1.9-second range and helping him shut down the running game. He threw out 38% of base stealers between the majors and minors in 2012. He's still refining his game-calling, but pitchers love throwing to him. He's a well-below-average runner, but that's true of most backstops.
TheoShmeo said:As always in this regard, my question is what does this mean for Blake Swihart?
Bright side: They expect Swihart will come up faster, perhaps after his Kris Jenkins-like service time period in the minors
Savin Hillbilly said:Leon sounds like a poor man's Vazquez: a defensive wizard whose offensive game starts and ends with plate discipline. A smart insurance pickup as long as the cost is negligible (does anybody know yet what we're giving up?).
joe dokes said:Obviously, the thought from the Sox is that the offense is going to good enough to go all-in on the defense-first (or defense only) at catcher.
moondog80 said:
That doesn't sound like a poor man's Vazquez, it sounds like just Vazquez. I think people have been forgetting how bad he was likely to be at the plate.
Good point...Does Leon come with options?PrometheusWakefield said:Well, one thing this does point out is that even though the importance of a strong defensive catcher with good pitch framing skills is increasingly understood, it's still the case that elite pitch framers are available relatively cheap. Players like Sandy Leon and Rene Rivera are still available for nearly nothing despite what the numbers suggest about their value.
Leon is out of options, that's why the Nationals dealt him (it was that or DFA).benhogan said:Good point...Does Leon come with options?
How about Quintero, can we stash him in the minors?
Any chance the Sox go with 3 catchers early in the season and pinch hit for them in high leverage situations?
Red(s)HawksFan said:Leon is out of options, that's why the Nationals dealt him (it was that or DFA).
Quintero is on a minor league contract, so he's headed to the minors regardless.
They're trying to figure out how to plug three OF into two bench spots, they really have no room to carry three no-hit catchers.
Brian MacPherson @brianmacp
Red Sox announce Sandy Leon deal for cash considerations. Christian Vazquez goes on the 60.
mt8thsw9th said:
How is this a 1 to 1?
Leon: 2078 PA, .236/.324/.329
Vazquez: 2022 PA, .265/.344/.392
So unless Leon's markedly better than Vazquez at the plate (doubtful he's even on par), then yes, he sounds like a poor man's Vazquez.
LondonSox said:It seems crazy to me that a guy with that defensive report is worth nothing. That's a great get. I mean that's pretty damn good as a direct Vasquez replacement, I think Vasquez had some upside with the bat, but not much. Plus his base case was better than Leon's but considering the timing tip of the cap to you Ben.
There's no guarantee Swihart is going to be ready at all this season so adjusting playing time based on that assumption would be foolish.grimshaw said:We're talking about a back up catcher here, so if Swihart needs 2 months or so that's probably 10-15 games for Leon or Quintero if Leon doesn't work out. My thinking is that Leon is a warm body so they aren't desperate to trade for a more established guy.
My guess is they'll give Hanigan a heavier workload than would be normal since it is the beginning of the season before he's worn down. We had Pierzynski last year, so it's probably still a net gain from the position.
Disagree. They don't let guys languish in AAA to work on major things. He'd still be in Portland if that were the case. Cherington has said this several times before about guys getting promoted to AAA are essentially an injury away.Rasputin said:There's no guarantee Swihart is going to be ready at all this season so adjusting playing time based on that assumption would be foolish.
Wright will begin the year in Pawtucket. He will be pitching to Swihart while there. Perhaps if Wright is needed to fill in for an injury to one of our SP, that may be when we also see Blake get the call up.Puffy said:If they give Hanigan a heavy workload to begin with, it will likely be due in large part to his familiarity and experience with the pitching staff through his work this spring training. Leon will likely need some time to get up to speed with the program. I think the Red Sox care about these things and will ease Leon into the catching rotation over the first few weeks. They certainly don't want Hanigan to burn out early in the season either.
Apropos pitcher familiarity - one person this whole situation might impact negatively is Steven Wright. One slight edge Wright might have had was that he had a catcher in Vazquez who had experience with his knuckler. If there's a tiebreaker for a spot on the major league pitching staff, it could come down to how much uncertainty they have over whether Hanigan and Leon can handle his pitch.
You realize you just said it's impossible for Swihart to get hurt and miss the whole year, right?grimshaw said:Disagree. They don't let guys languish in AAA to work on major things. He'd still be in Portland if that were the case. Cherington has said this several times before about guys getting promoted to AAA are essentially an injury away.
Obviously we, and the front office believe he needs polishing and they don't need to start the clock on him right away, so my guess is it won't be longer than a third of a season. And I do believe this has more to do with service time than him not being ready. I can't imagine he would do worse than any journeyman catcher. That's my opinion.
True or false - Sandy Leon will be on the major league roster on June 1st?
Huh? Where did I say or even imply that?Rasputin said:You realize you just said it's impossible for Swihart to get hurt and miss the whole year, right?
I ask because that's an obviously ludicrous position that I'm sure you don't hold.
I love the connection there. Underrated actor, but can he frame?mt8thsw9th said:With Vazquez to the DL, it seems like The Professional will be on the opening day roster.
grimshaw said:Huh? Where did I say or even imply that?
Edit: Ah I see what you meant. No I was talking about someone at the major league level getting injured and needing a replacement (in his case some time after May I would guess).
maufman said:Acquiring a marginal player with no options like Leon is a vote of no confidence in Quintero. I expect Quintero will exercise whatever opt-out rights he has.
I assumed he had the usual deal where he could opt out on May 1 if he isn't on the 25-man roster, but I don't actually know that.
Red(s)HawksFan said:Interesting dilemma with Quintero. I was unaware of this little caveat until now.
Alex Speier @alexspeier
Quintero signed as XXB free agent. Sox have to decide Tues whether to add to roster, pay $100K retention bonus and send to minors or release
So, it isn't as simple as letting Quintero go to Pawtucket and split time with Swihart after all. Apparently, Quintero can opt out and become a free agent, though his options elsewhere are probably limited. He's not exactly an in-demand commodity.
If an Article XX-B MLB free-agent signs a minor league contract at least ten days prior to MLB Opening Day, and then is either not released by 12 PM (Eastern) on the 5th day prior to MLB Opening Day or added to an MLB Active List (25-man roster) or MLB Disabled List by 3 PM (Eastern) on MLB Opening Day, the player automatically receives a $100,000 retention bonus, and the player can unilaterally opt-out of the minor league contract on June 1st if he has not been added to an MLB Active List (25-man roster) or an MLB Disabled List by that date.
Could you provide an insightful counterpoint instead of a "Because I said so?" It is severely lacking in many of your 26,000+ posts.Rasputin said:
No. I said there was no guarantee Swihart would be ready. You disagreed, which says you think there is a guarantee he'll be ready which is an absurd position.
grimshaw said:Could you provide an insightful counterpoint instead of a "Because I said so?"
I'm saying I believe he could be more effective than Sandy Leon right now and that the primary reason he is going down is because of service time. Feel free to take a gander at fangraphs for projected big league value for 2015 (1.5 to 2 WAR) compared to Sandy Leon (exact replacement level) if you want me to throw in at least some semblance of evidence.
If you want to say "He needs help on calling a game" Fine. To me, that means polish and seasoning. Not needing most of a season to develop further. Do you think Leon or any replacement level catcher they snag on waivers is going to be able to call a better game right now with no familiarity whatsoever with any of the pitchers? They're probably going to mostly let the pitchers call their games.
I also said when players are in AAA they are more or less big league ready but also have things to polish. Ben Cherington has said this multiple times in the past. Between what Ben has said and what John Henry has said about not rushing up young players to fill an immediate need, I'm chopping it down the middle and saying that I think he will be ready to be called up by June. This is only if Vazquez is out for much longer than that too. I'm not saying he would take the job over from Hanigan or Vazquez, just whoever else they would have as a back up.
The differences are trivial.. My problem with your points are that you keep saying I was "guaranteeing" he would be ready when I have never once said or inferred that anywhere and it's puzzling where you are getting that. By "ready" I mean able to play major league baseball and an estimate of when I think the Red Sox will call him up, not hit the ground running as an all-star and hitting his ceiling. How can I possibly guarantee they will call him up and how can you guarantee the contrary?Rasputin said:
I think that whatever the differences are between our opinions on Swihart and his readiness are trivial and I don't understand why you're still harping on this.
He's not guaranteed to be ready this season. That's not an outlandish statement. It's not one that conflicts with the statement, "He's probably going to be our starting catcher by the trade deadline."
maufman said:I understand the Sox need to pay Quintero $100k if they send him to Pawtucket. Given their thinness at the position, there's little doubt he'll get that money.
I thought the May 1 opt-out right was provided by rule, so I would expect Quintero to have that right in addition to receiving the $100k, but I don't know.
Again, I think Quintero opts out if he has the right. He came into camp expecting to make the roster as a backup catcher if one of the two guys ahead of him got hurt -- and one of them is injury-prone. Now, that has come to pass, and instead of getting the job, he has been passed over for another team's flotsam. That speaks volumes about the FO's opinion of him, and it suggests he has essentially no chance of locking down a 25-man spot for more than a couple weeks -- if there's another injury, the Sox will find another stopgap. He's better off trying to find a team that thinks more highly of his abilities (again, assuming he has the right to demand his release).