Sandy Leon DFA'd

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Corsi said:
 

James Wagner @JamesWagnerWP · 15m15 minutes ago


 
Sandy Leon says he's been traded to the Red Sox.

 
 
Probably not good news for Vazquez.
 
 
Whether Vazquez is out for a few weeks, a couple months,  or the whole season, they're still painfully thin at the position while he's down.  Acquiring another catcher simply for depth purposes was probably necessary regardless of Vazquez's prognosis.  Leon came available for cheap and there was a risk of missing out on him since he was ticketed for a DFA this week anyway, so they jumped on it.  He's also not the kind of guy they'll have any problem discarding if they have no need for him either.
 
I don't think we can read too much into this with regard to Vazquez.  He doesn't see Andrews until Wednesday.
 

TheoShmeo

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As always in this regard, my question is what does this mean for Blake Swihart?
 
Bright side: They expect Swihart will come up faster, perhaps after his Kris Bryant-like service time period in the minors, and they need depth for AAA.
 
Dark side: They see Leon as a better complement to Hanigan than Quintero and plan to keep Swihart down.
 
Edit: Thanks Devizer for the correction!
 

jimbobim

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Defense first gun with good framing numbers. Good non panic move with him out of options... .
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2013/01/04/nationals-prospects-review-sandy-leon-zach-walters/
 
The Venezuelan native, who signed with the Nationals in 2007, is the organization’s top fielding catcher. Nationals scouts clocked him throwing to second from home in less than two seconds. He has an accurate and quick arm, posting a caught stealing rate of 51 percent in 2010, 53 percent in 2011 and 41 percent in 2012. 
The Nationals aren’t in need of a backup catcher at the moment, with Suzuki expected to be the opening-day starter as Ramos is eased back from two knee surgeries. So, barring any injury, Leon will remain in the minors, likely at Syracuse, and expected to continue working on his offense. Suzuki, acquired from Oakland in a trade last August, has a $8.5 million club option for 2014 that vests at $9.25 million if he makes 113 starts next season. Leon could be Ramos’s backup in 2014, if Ramos does indeed recover well from his knee injury next season.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21855
We also have full-season stats for Double-A and Triple-A, using Max’s Retrosheet-based estimated framing method. Here are the top five through the end of the minor-league regular season:
Sandy Leon, 24, Nationals: -21.4 (6703)
Christian Vazquez, 23, Red Sox: -20.9 (7599)
Roberto Perez, 24, Indians: -19.5 (7092)
Jacob Realmuto, 22, Marlins: -17.7 (6134)
JR Murphy, 22, Yankees: -17.7 (8681)
Leon was called up to Washington when rosters expanded, but he still hasn’t gotten into a game. Washington TimesNats beat writer Amanda Comak reported that “pitchers rave about the job he does behind the plate,” and for good reason. At the plate, it’s a different story: Leon is a career .218/.310/.303 hitter in 510 Double-A plate appearances. Vazquez is a prospect; in May, Zach Mortimer noted that he has a “plus defensive profile,” adding, “most scouts I talk to believe he has the ability to play every day.” And Murphy is another in a series of strong receivers for the Yankees, who are clearly targeting players who fit that profile.
 
 
Both articles from 2013, but seems capable defensively. 
 

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Leon sounds like a poor man's Vazquez: a defensive wizard whose offensive game starts and ends with plate discipline. A smart insurance pickup as long as the cost is negligible (does anybody know yet what we're giving up?).
 

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From the 2012 Baseball America Prospect Handbook, which ranked him 24th for the Nationals:
 
Leon has established the reputation as one of the finest defensive catchers in the system, but scouts have always wondered if he'd hit enough to be a big leaguer. Leon has gradually improved his offensive game to the point that he now holds his own from both sides of the plate. He'll never be better than a below-average hitter with below-average power, but he has learned to put together competitive at-bats and has a knack for providing the occasional clutch hit. Leon's defense alone is good enough to get him to the big leagues, probably as a backup but perhaps as a glove-first regular. Nationals GM Bob Boone -- who won seven Gold Gloves behind the plate -- calls Leon "a magnificent catcher" with great footwork, outstanding receiving and blocking skills, and a solid-average to plus arm with very good accuracy. He led the Carolina League by throwing out 53% of base stealers in 2011. He's an extremely slow runner who clogs up the bases.
 
That year he hit .311/.358/.422/.780 in 149 PA for AA Harrisburg, and .346/.469/.558/1.026 in 64 PA for AAA Syracuse. Leon also earned four separate call-ups to WAS, hitting .267/.389/.333/.722 in just 36 PA. Small samples everywhere (along with unsustainable BABIPs), but his overall plate improvement prompted BA to boost him to #15 in their 2013 edition:
 
He sprained his right ankle in a home-plate collision with Chase Headley during his big-league debut, but he returned to the majors for stints in July, August and September. Leon has made himself competitive at the plate by tweaking his set-up, getting his hands into better hitting position and improving his balance. He has learned to use all fields and put the ball in play from both sides of the plate. He won't ever hit for power, but he should be a serviceable hitter with outstanding catch-and-throw skills. Leon is a plus receiver with good footwork and agility, making him a adept at blocking balls in the dirt. His above-average arm is efficient and accurate, routinely producing pop times in the 1.9-second range and helping him shut down the running game. He threw out 38% of base stealers between the majors and minors in 2012. He's still refining his game-calling, but pitchers love throwing to him. He's a well-below-average runner, but that's true of most backstops.
 

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TheoShmeo said:
As always in this regard, my question is what does this mean for Blake Swihart?
 
Bright side: They expect Swihart will come up faster, perhaps after his Kris Jenkins-like service time period in the minors
 
You mean Kris Bryant, I think?
 

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Obviously, the thought from the Sox is that the offense is going to good enough to go all-in on the defense-first (or defense only) at catcher.
 

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Savin Hillbilly said:
Leon sounds like a poor man's Vazquez: a defensive wizard whose offensive game starts and ends with plate discipline. A smart insurance pickup as long as the cost is negligible (does anybody know yet what we're giving up?).
 
 
That doesn't sound like a poor man's Vazquez, it sounds like just Vazquez.  I think people have been forgetting how bad he was likely to be at the plate.
 

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joe dokes said:
Obviously, the thought from the Sox is that the offense is going to good enough to go all-in on the defense-first (or defense only) at catcher.
 
That's been Farrell's line over the weekend. He's said multiple times that working well with the pitchers is paramount for the time being. Certainly made it sound like the choice would be Quintero over Swihart to start the season, and Leon's addition only seems to change the Quintero portion of the equation.
 

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Well, one thing this does point out is that even though the importance of a strong defensive catcher with good pitch framing skills is increasingly understood, it's still the case that elite pitch framers are available relatively cheap. Players like Sandy Leon and Rene Rivera are still available for nearly nothing despite what the numbers suggest about their value.
 

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moondog80 said:
 
 
That doesn't sound like a poor man's Vazquez, it sounds like just Vazquez.  I think people have been forgetting how bad he was likely to be at the plate.
 
How is this a 1 to 1?
 
Leon: 2078 PA, .236/.324/.329
Vazquez: 2022 PA, .265/.344/.392
 
So unless Leon's markedly better than Vazquez at the plate (doubtful he's even on par), then yes, he sounds like a poor man's Vazquez.
 

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PrometheusWakefield said:
Well, one thing this does point out is that even though the importance of a strong defensive catcher with good pitch framing skills is increasingly understood, it's still the case that elite pitch framers are available relatively cheap. Players like Sandy Leon and Rene Rivera are still available for nearly nothing despite what the numbers suggest about their value.
Good point...Does Leon come with options? 
 
How about Quintero, can we stash him in the minors?
 
Any chance the Sox go with 3 catchers early in the season and pinch hit for them in high leverage situations?
 

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benhogan said:
Good point...Does Leon come with options? 
 
How about Quintero, can we stash him in the minors?
 
Any chance the Sox go with 3 catchers early in the season and pinch hit for them in high leverage situations?
Leon is out of options, that's why the Nationals dealt him (it was that or DFA).
 
Quintero is on a minor league contract, so he's headed to the minors regardless.
 
They're trying to figure out how to plug three OF into two bench spots, they really have no room to carry three no-hit catchers.

 
Brian MacPherson @brianmacp
Red Sox announce Sandy Leon deal for cash considerations. Christian Vazquez goes on the 60.
 

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It seems crazy to me that a guy with that defensive report is worth nothing. That's a great get. I mean that's pretty damn good as a direct Vasquez replacement, I think Vasquez had some upside with the bat, but not much. Plus his base case was better than Leon's but considering the timing tip of the cap to you Ben.
 

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
Leon is out of options, that's why the Nationals dealt him (it was that or DFA).
 
Quintero is on a minor league contract, so he's headed to the minors regardless.
 
They're trying to figure out how to plug three OF into two bench spots, they really have no room to carry three no-hit catchers.
 
Brian MacPherson @brianmacp
Red Sox announce Sandy Leon deal for cash considerations. Christian Vazquez goes on the 60.
 
As Leon is out of options this means that Swihart will go to Pawtucket. Which is a shame (although I understand the service clock ramifications) . As Leon only cost cash I suppose they can easily jettison him (or try to sneak him through waivers) if Blake is looking really good come May 1st.
 

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mt8thsw9th said:
 
How is this a 1 to 1?
 
Leon: 2078 PA, .236/.324/.329
Vazquez: 2022 PA, .265/.344/.392
 
So unless Leon's markedly better than Vazquez at the plate (doubtful he's even on par), then yes, he sounds like a poor man's Vazquez.
 
Their minor league contact/PD numbers have been virtually identical, with a slight edge to Leon (11%/17% BB/K rates vs. 10%/18% for Vazquez). The major difference between them is that somewhat better things happen when Christian makes contact (.127 vs. .093 ISO, .314 vs. .284 BABIP). That, and he's a year and a half younger.
 
So maybe one should say "a lower-middle-class man's Vazquez." Anyway, seems like a solid backup and a better option than Quintero.
 

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I find it quaint that they announce that the Sox "traded" for him "for cash considerations"?  Why don't they just say that they bought his contract?
 

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We're talking about a back up catcher here, so if Swihart needs 2 months or so that's probably 10-15 games for Leon or Quintero if Leon doesn't work out.  My thinking is that Leon is a warm body so they aren't desperate to trade for a more established guy.
 
My guess is they'll give Hanigan a heavier workload than would be normal since it is the beginning of the season before he's worn down.  We had Pierzynski last year, so it's probably still a net gain from the position.
 

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LondonSox said:
It seems crazy to me that a guy with that defensive report is worth nothing. That's a great get. I mean that's pretty damn good as a direct Vasquez replacement, I think Vasquez had some upside with the bat, but not much. Plus his base case was better than Leon's but considering the timing tip of the cap to you Ben.
 
When you have two Big League Catchers, like the Nats do, and the guy is out of options and you're gonna have to DFA him in a few days anyway, the value is low.
 
Watch all the names you know hit the wires over the next few days, available for nothing.
 

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grimshaw said:
We're talking about a back up catcher here, so if Swihart needs 2 months or so that's probably 10-15 games for Leon or Quintero if Leon doesn't work out.  My thinking is that Leon is a warm body so they aren't desperate to trade for a more established guy.
 
My guess is they'll give Hanigan a heavier workload than would be normal since it is the beginning of the season before he's worn down.  We had Pierzynski last year, so it's probably still a net gain from the position.
There's no guarantee Swihart is going to be ready at all this season so adjusting playing time based on that assumption would be foolish.
 

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If they give Hanigan a heavy workload to begin with, it will likely be due in large part to his familiarity and experience with the pitching staff through his work this spring training. Leon will likely need some time to get up to speed with the program. I think the Red Sox care about these things and will ease Leon into the catching rotation over the first few weeks. They certainly don't want Hanigan to burn out early in the season either.
 
Apropos pitcher familiarity - one person this whole situation might impact negatively is Steven Wright. One slight edge Wright might have had was that he had a catcher in Vazquez who had experience with his knuckler. If there's a tiebreaker for a spot on the major league pitching staff, it could come down to how much uncertainty they have over whether Hanigan and Leon can handle his pitch.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Hanigan is not exactly an iron man, so it's very nice to pick up a good defensive catcher for nothing. 
 
Hanigan has never started more than 100 games in any major league season, topping out at 98 in 2012. Each of the last 2 years, he's started 66 games. He's 34 now, and if he was played 5 or 6 games a week, he would likely break down.
 
Leon is 8 years younger than Hanigan, and 9 years younger than Quintero, so he really helps the depth. Going with 2 old catchers all year would have been pretty risky, since Swihart's development time is important. Instead, they add the much younger Leon, who should probably be better defensively than Quintero, plus they can still keep Quintero at AAA.
 
I hope Farrell will pinch hit for the catcher in important situations. Most days, we should have legit hitters from either side of the plate on the bench, so hopefully they will be used when the catcher's spot is due up in a big situation. 
 

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Rasputin said:
There's no guarantee Swihart is going to be ready at all this season so adjusting playing time based on that assumption would be foolish.
Disagree.  They don't let guys languish in AAA to work on major things.  He'd still be in Portland if that were the case.  Cherington has said this several times before about guys getting promoted to AAA are essentially an injury away.
Obviously we, and the front office believe he needs polishing and they don't need to start the clock on him right away, so my guess is it won't be longer than a third of a season.  And I do believe this has more to do with service time than him not being ready.  I can't imagine he would do worse than any journeyman catcher.  That's my opinion. 
 
True or false - Sandy Leon will be on the major league roster on June 1st?
 

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Puffy said:
If they give Hanigan a heavy workload to begin with, it will likely be due in large part to his familiarity and experience with the pitching staff through his work this spring training. Leon will likely need some time to get up to speed with the program. I think the Red Sox care about these things and will ease Leon into the catching rotation over the first few weeks. They certainly don't want Hanigan to burn out early in the season either.
 
Apropos pitcher familiarity - one person this whole situation might impact negatively is Steven Wright. One slight edge Wright might have had was that he had a catcher in Vazquez who had experience with his knuckler. If there's a tiebreaker for a spot on the major league pitching staff, it could come down to how much uncertainty they have over whether Hanigan and Leon can handle his pitch.
Wright will begin the year in Pawtucket. He will be pitching to Swihart while there. Perhaps if Wright is needed to fill in for an injury to one of our SP, that may be when we also see Blake get the call up.
 

mauf

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Good depth move. Hanigan is the organization's best catcher right now, and they don't want Swihart in Boston if he won't be the starter.
 
They now have a month to figure out whether Quintero or Leon is their backup catcher. (Leon is out of options, so he'll get the nod initially.) Neither of them is a starter, so they'll need to make a bigger move if Hanigan goes down and Swihart isn't ready.
 

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grimshaw said:
Disagree.  They don't let guys languish in AAA to work on major things.  He'd still be in Portland if that were the case.  Cherington has said this several times before about guys getting promoted to AAA are essentially an injury away.
Obviously we, and the front office believe he needs polishing and they don't need to start the clock on him right away, so my guess is it won't be longer than a third of a season.  And I do believe this has more to do with service time than him not being ready.  I can't imagine he would do worse than any journeyman catcher.  That's my opinion. 
 
True or false - Sandy Leon will be on the major league roster on June 1st?
You realize you just said it's impossible for Swihart to get hurt and miss the whole year, right?

I ask because that's an obviously ludicrous position that I'm sure you don't hold.

I said there was no guarantee. I didn't say I didn't think it would happen. I do think Swihart will be up at some point this year even if it doesn't come before September.

Will Leon be on the roster on June 1?

Probably. Two months is an awful short timetable for someone with 18 games at AAA.
 

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Rasputin said:
You realize you just said it's impossible for Swihart to get hurt and miss the whole year, right?

I ask because that's an obviously ludicrous position that I'm sure you don't hold.
 
Huh?  Where did I say or even imply that?
 
Edit:  Ah I see what you meant.  No I was talking about someone at the major league level getting injured and needing a replacement (in his case some time after May I would guess).
 

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mt8thsw9th said:
With Vazquez to the DL, it seems like The Professional will be on the opening day roster.
I love the connection there.  Underrated actor, but can he frame?  
On a less serious note, if the Sox were content to trade for a DFA candidate or another fellow who is out of options, Leon is probably the best combination of youth, health and defensive ability (receiving, framing and throwing) that they could have acquired-cost not being a consideration.  I think they could have been willing to pay more for the same type of profile, but Leon just happened to be on his way to being DFA, and the Nats took cash instead of losing him for nothing.  The Sox paid the cash to insure they got the guy with the profile they coveted, so it works both ways. The only downside is that Leon is out of options, which makes me think, as others have posited, that he's only a placeholder until Swihart is judged ready (June 1?).  At that point, Swihart comes up, Hanigan is the backup, Leon gets DFA, and Quintero becomes the full timer down at Pawtucket.  Quintero is the guy who seems to be the most negatively impacted by this trade, but Leon is younger with better defensive chops, and that seemed to be the focus of the quest.  Great move by the front office, even if the guy doesn't hit.  Vazquez was also going to be a PH candidate, so he won't be significantly worse in the early innings...
I think they made the best of a poor situation, and did so with little/no cost, and no loss of talent.  Well done.
 

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grimshaw said:
Huh?  Where did I say or even imply that?
 
Edit:  Ah I see what you meant.  No I was talking about someone at the major league level getting injured and needing a replacement (in his case some time after May I would guess).
 
No. I said there was no guarantee Swihart would be ready. You disagreed, which says you think there is a guarantee he'll be ready which is an absurd position.
 

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@brianmacp: Farrell: "No decisions" made on backup catcher, presumably either Leon or Quintero. Rationale for trade: "We needed to build depth."
 

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Interesting dilemma with Quintero.  I was unaware of this little caveat until now.

Alex Speier @alexspeier
Quintero signed as XXB free agent. Sox have to decide Tues whether to add to roster, pay $100K retention bonus and send to minors or release
 
So, it isn't as simple as letting Quintero go to Pawtucket and split time with Swihart after all.  Apparently, Quintero can opt out and become a free agent, though his options elsewhere are probably limited.  He's not exactly an in-demand commodity.
 

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Acquiring a marginal player with no options like Leon is a vote of no confidence in Quintero. I expect Quintero will exercise whatever opt-out rights he has.
 
I assumed he had the usual deal where he could opt out on May 1 if he isn't on the 25-man roster, but I don't actually know that.
 

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maufman said:
Acquiring a marginal player with no options like Leon is a vote of no confidence in Quintero. I expect Quintero will exercise whatever opt-out rights he has.
 
I assumed he had the usual deal where he could opt out on May 1 if he isn't on the 25-man roster, but I don't actually know that.
 
Quintero's 35.  Hanigan might catch 70% of the games at best.  Swihart may not be ready.  The Sox picked up some depth for cash in Leon, who while younger than Quintero.  I'd say Quintero's sitting pretty.  
 

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Interesting dilemma with Quintero.  I was unaware of this little caveat until now.

Alex Speier @alexspeier
Quintero signed as XXB free agent. Sox have to decide Tues whether to add to roster, pay $100K retention bonus and send to minors or release
 
So, it isn't as simple as letting Quintero go to Pawtucket and split time with Swihart after all.  Apparently, Quintero can opt out and become a free agent, though his options elsewhere are probably limited.  He's not exactly an in-demand commodity.
 
I read that to say if they send him to the minors, they have to pay him $100k but they still retain his rights. Given that the entire offseason was predicated on bringing in pitchers that could benefit from Vazquez's low pitch framing; and that the other catcher (Hannigan) they brought in has that ability as well; and that immediately after it was clear Vazquez wouldn't be available for a while Ben went out and got another catcher who has great pitch framing skills; and that Quintero does not frame well... given all that, I think Quintero's going to AAA if not outright released.
 

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I think that at the end of the day, Quintero is in exactly the position he expected to be in - splitting time with Swihart at Pawtucket. Sure, he thought he'd be behind Vasquez and Hanigan rather than Hanigan and Leon, and that might be a bit of a downer, but there's no real change between reasonable initial expectations and current situation (including "but what about the injury?" He'll be as close to Boston when the season starts as he would have been - a likely call-up if either of the two primary catchers will miss extended time).
 
I expect that his agent will walk him through this kind of rationale, and we'll see him with the Pawsox next month
 

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Here is the relevant language of Article XX(B):
 
If an Article XX-B MLB free-agent signs a minor league contract at least ten days prior to MLB Opening Day, and then is either not released by 12 PM (Eastern) on the 5th day prior to MLB Opening Day or added to an MLB Active List (25-man roster) or MLB Disabled List by 3 PM (Eastern) on MLB Opening Day, the player automatically receives a $100,000 retention bonus, and the player can unilaterally opt-out of the minor league contract on June 1st if he has not been added to an MLB Active List (25-man roster) or an MLB Disabled List by that date.
 
 
They are going to pay Quintero $100k and send him to Pawtucket as was their plan all along, where he will act as depth in the case of an injury to Hanigan or Leon in April and May until Swihart will hopefully be ready (if necessary).
 
Edit: clarity and spelling
 

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Rasputin said:
 
No. I said there was no guarantee Swihart would be ready. You disagreed, which says you think there is a guarantee he'll be ready which is an absurd position.
Could you provide an insightful counterpoint instead of a "Because I said so?"  It is severely lacking in many of your 26,000+ posts.
I'm saying I believe he could be more effective than Sandy Leon right now and that the primary reason he is going down is because of service time.  Feel free to take a gander at fangraphs for projected big league value for 2015 (1.5 to 2 WAR) compared to Sandy Leon (exact replacement level) if you want me to throw in at least some semblance of evidence.
 
If you want to say "He needs help on calling a game"  Fine.  To me, that means polish and seasoning.  Not needing most of a season to develop further.  Do you think Leon or any replacement level catcher they snag on waivers is going to be able to call a better game right now with no familiarity whatsoever with any of the pitchers?  They're probably going to mostly let the pitchers call their games. 
 
 I also said when players are in AAA they are more or less big league ready but also have things to polish.  Ben Cherington has said this multiple times in the past.  Between what Ben has said and what John Henry has said about not rushing up young players to fill an immediate need, I'm chopping it down the middle and saying that I think he will be ready to be called up by June.   This is only if Vazquez is out for much longer than that too.  I'm not saying he would take the job over from Hanigan or Vazquez, just whoever else they would have as a back up.  .  
 

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I understand the Sox need to pay Quintero $100k if they send him to Pawtucket. Given their thinness at the position, there's little doubt he'll get that money.
 
I thought the May 1 opt-out right was provided by rule, so I would expect Quintero to have that right in addition to receiving the $100k, but I don't know.
 
Again, I think Quintero opts out if he has the right. He came into camp expecting to make the roster as a backup catcher if one of the two guys ahead of him got hurt -- and one of them is injury-prone. Now, that has come to pass, and instead of getting the job, he has been passed over for another team's flotsam. That speaks volumes about the FO's opinion of him, and it suggests he has essentially no chance of locking down a 25-man spot for more than a couple weeks -- if there's another injury, the Sox will find another stopgap. He's better off trying to find a team that thinks more highly of his abilities (again, assuming he has the right to demand his release).
 

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As the summary of the relevant portion of Article XX-B I posted upthread explains, the automatic opt-out is June 1, not May 1. Given the opportunity Quintero very well may opt out, but quite frankly who cares? That's two months from now; two months where Swihart is playing the lion's share at AAA and isn't being called up for minor injuries on the parent club. Hopefully he's ready for at least a 50% timeshare in Boston by June, but if he's not and Quintero opts out they can find another fungible emergency veteran catcher who's happy to collect a paycheck to sit in Pawtucket for a few months. The Sox FO knew when they signed him that they were only guaranteed to have Quintero as insurance against rushing Swihart for April and May before he could walk; nothing has changed about that.
 

Rasputin

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grimshaw said:
Could you provide an insightful counterpoint instead of a "Because I said so?" 
 
I find it tedious when people take time explaining the utterly obvious so I try not to do so myself, but if you really need an explanation as to why there is no guarantee that Swihart will be ready soon, I would point you to the fact that we just put our starting catcher on the 60 day DL. Swihart could get hurt. Hell, he could get killed. He could just fail to develop as expected. The probability of him being ready in a couple months is not 100%. It's probably not even 90%. It's high, to be sure, but it's not guaranteed.
 
I'm saying I believe he could be more effective than Sandy Leon right now and that the primary reason he is going down is because of service time.  Feel free to take a gander at fangraphs for projected big league value for 2015 (1.5 to 2 WAR) compared to Sandy Leon (exact replacement level) if you want me to throw in at least some semblance of evidence.
 
If you want to say "He needs help on calling a game"  Fine.  To me, that means polish and seasoning.  Not needing most of a season to develop further.  Do you think Leon or any replacement level catcher they snag on waivers is going to be able to call a better game right now with no familiarity whatsoever with any of the pitchers?  They're probably going to mostly let the pitchers call their games. 
 
 I also said when players are in AAA they are more or less big league ready but also have things to polish.  Ben Cherington has said this multiple times in the past.  Between what Ben has said and what John Henry has said about not rushing up young players to fill an immediate need, I'm chopping it down the middle and saying that I think he will be ready to be called up by June.   This is only if Vazquez is out for much longer than that too.  I'm not saying he would take the job over from Hanigan or Vazquez, just whoever else they would have as a back up.
 
 
You seem to be taking my assertion that Swihart's readiness is not guaranteed as some sort of indication that I don't think it will happen despite the fact that I said I think it will.
 
I think he could be more effective than Sandy Leon right now and I think the primarily reason he is going down is because there are things the team wants him to work on.
 
I think calling a game is primarily (but by no means exclusively) getting on the same page as the pitcher in regards to what pitches to throw in what situations to what batters and is, as such, not a thing someone really learns in the minors. I think what one is going to learn in the minors is the basic trends which are then going to be adapted to every individual pitcher.
 
I think that whatever it is that Swihart has left to learn, the Sox are fairly confident that he can learn it fairly quickly. I think that the Sox are going to continually assess how much progress he has made, particularly in June and July as the trade deadline nears. I believe that it is very likely that we will see Swihart up in the majors before the trade deadline. 
 
I think that some of the players in AAA are more or less big league ready but with things to polish. I think others are there because they have accomplished everything they need to accomplish against AA competition and need to face stiffer competition to develop more things before being ready to make the transition to the majors. I think others are there just because teams need warm bodies when injuries happen, and they stash those guys at AAA.
 
I think this whole argument is because you misunderstood what I meant when I said "There is no guarantee..." and somehow took it to mean that I thought it was impossible or improbable. I don't. I think it's pretty likely that Swihart would end the season as the starting catcher even if Vazquez hadn't gotten hurt.
 
I think that whatever the differences are between our opinions on Swihart and his readiness are trivial and I don't understand why you're still harping on this.
 
He's not guaranteed to be ready this season. That's not an outlandish statement. It's not one that conflicts with the statement, "He's probably going to be our starting catcher by the trade deadline."
 

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Quintero spent all of last year in AAA.  I don't think he has delusions about what he is.  Opting out, either on 5/1 or 6/1, probably doesn't improve his chances of playing in the big leagues in 2015.  Unless there's a golden opportunity for playing time (or just a back up role) that coincides with the opt-out deadline, he's in Pawtucket all year, IMO.
 

grimshaw

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Rasputin said:
 
 
I think that whatever the differences are between our opinions on Swihart and his readiness are trivial and I don't understand why you're still harping on this.
 
He's not guaranteed to be ready this season. That's not an outlandish statement. It's not one that conflicts with the statement, "He's probably going to be our starting catcher by the trade deadline."
The differences are trivial..  My problem with your points are that you keep saying I was "guaranteeing" he would be ready when I have never once said or inferred that anywhere and it's puzzling where you are getting that.  By "ready" I mean able to play major league baseball and an estimate of when I think the Red Sox will call him up, not hit the ground running as an all-star and hitting his ceiling.  How can I possibly guarantee they will call him up and how can you guarantee the contrary?
 

findguapo

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maufman said:
I understand the Sox need to pay Quintero $100k if they send him to Pawtucket. Given their thinness at the position, there's little doubt he'll get that money.
 
I thought the May 1 opt-out right was provided by rule, so I would expect Quintero to have that right in addition to receiving the $100k, but I don't know.
 
Again, I think Quintero opts out if he has the right. He came into camp expecting to make the roster as a backup catcher if one of the two guys ahead of him got hurt -- and one of them is injury-prone. Now, that has come to pass, and instead of getting the job, he has been passed over for another team's flotsam. That speaks volumes about the FO's opinion of him, and it suggests he has essentially no chance of locking down a 25-man spot for more than a couple weeks -- if there's another injury, the Sox will find another stopgap. He's better off trying to find a team that thinks more highly of his abilities (again, assuming he has the right to demand his release).
 
The other option is to release him and immediately re-sign him to a minor league contract, to avoid paying him the 100k. If Pawtucket is his best opportunity, which it probably is, I don't think paying him the 100k is necessary, he would probably re-sign with the Red Sox and willingly go to Pawtucket.