Red Sox Trade Deadline 2022

NDame616

will bailey
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Jul 31, 2006
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I have yet to come to any firm conclusion on Bloom’s abilities as a GM. He is, however, clearly quite comfortable spinning nonsense (I won’t call it lies, but it’s pretty close).

The stuff the other day about not even considering trading X was pure gobbledegook. I mean, of course they’ve considered it. It’d be malpractice had they not.

And now saying that they’re still trying to get in the playoffs? Puhleeze.

I’m not upset by it, but it’s all complete nonsense.
I think he's waiting to see what materializes. Maybe EVOO and JDM are traded. Maybe they both stay and we spin a few prospects for a 1B upgrade. Bloom doesn't know which will happen, so it's hard for him to spin it one way (buyers) or the other (sellers)
 

FloridaSoxFan11

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Jul 30, 2019
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If you can get Vientos from the Mets for JD you run with it

wonder if we may try to package a couple guys together to get better prospects
 

cantor44

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I have yet to come to any firm conclusion on Bloom’s abilities as a GM. He is, however, clearly quite comfortable spinning nonsense (I won’t call it lies, but it’s pretty close).

The stuff the other day about not even considering trading X was pure gobbledegook. I mean, of course they’ve considered it. It’d be malpractice had they not.

And now saying that they’re still trying to get in the playoffs? Puhleeze.

I’m not upset by it, but it’s all complete nonsense.
Forgive the highly subjective, speculative nature of this: I think Bloom feels a little trapped between his desire to really rebuild (which might include a couple losing last place seasons), and the pressure to win in the Boston market. He may have underestimated the heat he'd feel from the fan base/Boston media market, if he didn't go all in. And I think the success of 2021 took him by surprise. It should have had him pivot to more of a GFIN mode, but that just wasn't in his preconception for how he/it was gonna proceed. So, he's been kinda caught, trying to split the difference. But splitting the difference may be the worst of all choices in its outcomes.

Alternately, he thinks Pham and McGuire will help them to the postseason. In which case needs a check up, right quick.
 

nvalvo

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Agreed, but I don’t recall any moves that happened and folks said: There is the piece that puts the Sox over the top. Winning moves are usually not recognized when they happen
Hilariously, this is how I felt when they acquired Eric Gagne.

edit: of course, Gagne has a Red Sox World Series ring...
 

TheYellowDart5

Hustle and bustle
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Apr 16, 2003
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Kind of depressing when the day's best move at the major league level was getting rid of Jake Diekman.

The farm system got a little better in exchange for the major league roster getting appreciably worse (at one position at least). Plawecki/McGuire/Wong is a rough trio to finish the year with, and unless there's a shocking Willson Contreras trade coming or Ronaldo Hernandez is the second coming of Mike Piazza, there's zero chance they outproduce Vazquez going forward. Pham over Davis/JBJ is an upgrade almost by default though he's a bad defender for an outfield that needs good ones and a certified asshole. It's hard if not a bit insulting to sell all that as contending.

And I understand why Vazquez was moved; he wasn't coming back, the FO wants to get a look at Wong/Hernandez (and presumably dreams of fielding a dirt-cheap Wong/Hernandez/McGuire group next season), and he wasn't going to be the difference down the stretch. But it's also an obvious seller move, and that sucks, no matter how the GM tries (unconvincingly) to spin it.

ETA: Hadn't realized that thanks to Pham's mutual option, the Red Sox are going to have to pay him $4.5 million to go away next year if he's terrible or is an irascible dick. I don't like those odds.
 
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Daniel_Son

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Kind of depressing when the day's best move at the major league level was getting rid of Jake Diekman.

The farm system got a little better in exchange for the major league roster getting appreciably worse (at one position at least). Plawecki/McGuire/Wong is a rough trio to finish the year with, and unless there's a shocking Willson Contreras trade coming or Ronaldo Hernandez is the second coming of Mike Piazza, there's zero chance they outproduce Vazquez going forward. Pham over Davis generally/JBJ against lefties is an upgrade almost by default though he's a bad defender for an outfield that needs good ones and a certified asshole. It's hard if not a bit insulting to sell all that as contending.
Wonder if they've got a deal in the works for Campusano or something.
 

high cheese

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No I did not, repeating is tough and doesn’t require blowing the team up. And, from my view, that includes the firing of Dombrowski - a guy that knows how to go get ball players. The Smart Guys knew exactly what they wanted which was to slash the payroll and take profit so they went and got a guy who would do it. My head spins when I think of how fast that core has been dissolved.
 

Rice4HOF

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Hilariously, this is how I felt when they acquired Eric Gagne.

edit: of course, Gagne has a Red Sox World Series ring...
A World Series that we won in spite, and not because, of him.
Seriously, he almost single handedly kept us from winning the division in 2007 despite only appearing on a handful of innings.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
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Dec 7, 2008
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Forgive the highly subjective, speculative nature of this: I think Bloom feels a little trapped between his desire to really rebuild (which might include a couple losing last place seasons), and the pressure to win in the Boston market. He may have underestimated the heat he'd feel from the fan base/Boston media market, if he didn't go all in. And I think the success of 2021 took him by surprise. It should have had him pivot to more of a GFIN mode, but that just wasn't in his preconception for how he/it was gonna proceed. So, he's been kinda caught, trying to split the difference. But splitting the difference may be the worst of all choices in its outcomes.
In terms of Pythag the Sox finished 2021 13 games behind Tampa and Houston, and 11 games behind Toronto. They finished ahead of the Yankees, but I think most people predicted the Yankees would bounce back strong in 2022 because no one had them winning 86 games last year. Based on all that, and how the 2022 season was playing out, even before all the injuries, very little about that says that the success of 2021 should have led to them pivoting to a GFIN approach.

They could have kept Renfroe, signed Story, brought back Schwarber, and added a big name reliever, and after all that they still wouldn't have been anywhere near New York or Houston this year in terms of talent or record.
 

Jimbodandy

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A World Series that we won in spite, and not because, of him.
Seriously, he almost single handedly kept us from winning the division in 2007 despite only appearing on a handful of innings.
In 18.2 regular season innings, he put up an ERA of 6.75 and a shockingly bad net WPA of -1.59. The net of acquiring him was costing us 1.5 games to close out the season. That includes his good performances offsetting the bad ones.

edit: looking further, 0 saves. 3 BS, 3 H.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
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Dec 7, 2008
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No I did not, repeating is tough and doesn’t require blowing the team up. And, from my view, that includes the firing of Dombrowski - a guy that knows how to go get ball players. The Smart Guys knew exactly what they wanted which was to slash the payroll and take profit so they went and got a guy who would do it. My head spins when I think of how fast that core has been dissolved.
It isn't that hard to "go get ball players" when you're starting with on of the best systems in baseball, including 2 guys who were at different points possibly the #1 prospect in all of baseball and ownership tells you short term to ignore the luxury tax if that's what it takes to win. And you also get to start with Ortiz Betts and Bogaerts
 

nvalvo

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No I did not, repeating is tough and doesn’t require blowing the team up. And, from my view, that includes the firing of Dombrowski - a guy that knows how to go get ball players. The Smart Guys knew exactly what they wanted which was to slash the payroll and take profit so they went and got a guy who would do it. My head spins when I think of how fast that core has been dissolved.
It isn't that hard to "go get ball players" when you're starting with on of the best systems in baseball, including 2 guys who were at different points possibly the #1 prospect in all of baseball and ownership tells you short term to ignore the luxury tax if that's what it takes to win. And you also get to start with Ortiz Betts and Bogaerts
We have a control group here in the Philadelphia Phillies.
 

cantor44

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In terms of Pythag the Sox finished 2021 13 games behind Tampa and Houston, and 11 games behind Toronto. They finished ahead of the Yankees, but I think most people predicted the Yankees would bounce back strong in 2022 because no one had them winning 86 games last year. Based on all that, and how the 2022 season was playing out, even before all the injuries, very little about that says that the success of 2021 should have led to them pivoting to a GFIN approach.

They could have kept Renfroe, signed Story, brought back Schwarber, and added a big name reliever, and after all that they still wouldn't have been anywhere near New York or Houston this year in terms of talent or record.
I agree with you they wouldn't be as good as either team in that case. But they would be MUCH better and playoff caliber. And once there, health and luck play a big part. Mind you, I prefer they aim to build a championship caliber team, and not just a fringe playoff team. But my point stands regardless and maybe is reinforced - Bloom stayed in neutral in the off season for a team that was good but not good enough. He's been betwixt and between for a coupla years. And he was talking out of both sides of his mouth today (or, yesterday). At this point I hope he gets off the fence already and sells every pending FA he can tomorrow, save Xander. Maybe he will.

He was mandated to trade Betts (and got a tepid return). Other than that, he's been cautious for three years.

Let's see if it's characterlogical or just a phase 1. Time to be bold Chaim!
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
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I agree with you they wouldn't be as good as either team in that case. But they would be MUCH better and playoff caliber. And once there, health and luck play a big part. Mind you, I prefer they aim to build a championship caliber team, and not just a fringe playoff team. But my point stands regardless and maybe is reinforced - Bloom stayed in neutral in the off season for a team that was good but not good enough. He's been betwixt and between for a coupla years. And he was talking out of both sides of his mouth today (or, yesterday). At this point I hope he gets off the fence already and sells every pending FA he can tomorrow, save Xander. Maybe he will.
They were playoff caliber already before everyone got hurt, and had no realistic way to get from good to good enough, if good enough means a true talent top team in the league, without an unrealistic spending spree or trading the whole farm again, and even that might not have been enough.
 

Rovin Romine

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RobertS975

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It's a $12m mutual option for 2023 with a $8m buyout.

If the Phillies trade for him there's no way some cash does not go with him.
Well, that certainly changes the picture. Thanks for the clarification. That makes the trade that brought him back even more inscrutable!
 

Yaz4Ever

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It's a $12m mutual option for 2023 with a $8m buyout.

If the Phillies trade for him there's no way some cash does not go with him.
The amount going with him will determine any prospects we may receive. Not familiar with their system, so I don't have a binky to hope for.
 

RobertS975

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Eovaldi is certainly worth a little bit more after last night's start against a top team. The Sox are still sellers, right?
 

Yaz4Ever

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Eovaldi is certainly worth a little bit more after last night's start against a top team. The Sox are still sellers, right?
After last night's start, I can't imagine we don't move him. He looked good. He, JDM, possibly JBJ are likely all gone by the deadline. Curious to see who else.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Eovaldi is certainly worth a little bit more after last night's start against a top team. The Sox are still sellers, right?
I’m actually thinking the team today will look very different in 12 hours and Eovaldi will still be on the team.
I think Bloom really thinks the Sox can win in October
 

RobertS975

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Drive by comment, or did you really not know we got prospects along with JBJ?
Yeah, boss. I know... very expensive prospects. The younger one flunked out of AA and was shipped back to Greenville. Hamilton is having a very average season in Portland.

But my point was that if saying bye bye to JBJ for next year costs $8M, then the team is far more likely to keep him around for $12M. And it certainly makes his trade value far less than it was if he wasn't guaranteed at least $8M for 2023.
 

Rovin Romine

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Yeah, boss. I know... very expensive prospects. The younger one flunked out of AA and was shipped back to Greenville. Hamilton is having a very average season in Portland.

But my point was that if saying bye bye to JBJ for next year costs $8M, then the team is far more likely to keep him around for $12M. And it certainly makes his trade value far less than it was if he wasn't guaranteed at least $8M for 2023.
No worries. Just thought I'd ask as we get a lot of casual posters flocking in during moments like these.

That $8M really is something of a poison pill.

AFAIK, unless this is very recent news, Binelas didn't get demoted. He had a decent A+ season, then was promoted to AA about a month ago. He's had a poor month, but AA is a serious step up, and it's well within the range of normal for a 22 year old to take a bit to adjust. https://www.milb.com/player/alex-binelas-681323?stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2022

Hamilton hasn't hit as well at AA as he did last year, but he had a rough May - and we have two months to go. His stolen base numbers/ratio are eye-opening though. He's pretty much running at-will. https://www.milb.com/player/david-hamilton-666152?season=2022&team=546&stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2022
 

joe dokes

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I’m actually thinking the team today will look very different in 12 hours and Eovaldi will still be on the team.
I think Bloom really thinks the Sox can win in October
I think he really thinks that he can do some deals to improve the future, not worsen the present, and can win enough to get to October. (The playoffs, not the regular-season calendar).
 

Rovin Romine

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I think he really thinks that he can do some deals to improve the future, not worsen the present, and can win enough to get to October. (The playoffs, not the regular-season calendar).
I'm curious to see what he does, because those seem like mutually exclusive things to a degree. If we have non-returning vets and a bunch of rule 40 guys, it might be possible to shift pieces around without entirely upsetting the apple cart. The problem is the vets who might be traded are generally doing well. . .so I'm not sure trading JD (or the like) and replacing his production with Pham will keep us in the mix through August and September.
 

Cesar Crespo

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No worries. Just thought I'd ask as we get a lot of casual posters flocking in during moments like these.

That $8M really is something of a poison pill.

AFAIK, unless this is very recent news, Binelas didn't get demoted. He had a decent A+ season, then was promoted to AA about a month ago. He's had a poor month, but AA is a serious step up, and it's well within the range of normal for a 22 year old to take a bit to adjust. https://www.milb.com/player/alex-binelas-681323?stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2022

Hamilton hasn't hit as well at AA as he did last year, but he had a rough May - and we have two months to go. His stolen base numbers/ratio are eye-opening though. He's pretty much running at-will. https://www.milb.com/player/david-hamilton-666152?season=2022&team=546&stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2022

If you really call that eye popping but it's not. Bubba Thompsons is 48/51 in AAA. Estuery Ruiz is 37/42 in 49 games. Duke Ellis 42/49. Tyler Tolbert is 42 for 42. Hasn't been caught yet. Zac Veen is 47/50. Luis Valdes is 53/64. ODLS has 50 Sb, Ferguson and Patino are over 50 SB.

Anyway, this is eye popping. And he sucked.
 

BeantownIdaho

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If you really call that eye popping but it's not. Bubba Thompsons is 48/51 in AAA. Estuery Ruiz is 37/42 in 49 games. Duke Ellis 42/49. Tyler Tolbert is 42 for 42. Hasn't been caught yet. Zac Veen is 47/50. Luis Valdes is 53/64. ODLS has 50 Sb, Ferguson and Patino are over 50 SB.

Anyway, this is eye popping. And he sucked.
I'm going with a 49/53 steal ratio as eye opening. I don't know what your definition is, but I would say that's definitely in the ballpark with the guys you listed.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm going with a 49/53 steal ratio as eye opening. I don't know what your definition is, but I would say that's definitely in the ballpark with the guys you listed.
Which is why I don't think it's eye opening. He's not an outlier. He's just another guy.

49/53 would be eye opening in the Major Leagues. In the minors? Nope.

Remember Garin Cecchini? Slow dude stealing for 50+ bases.
 

cantor44

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They were playoff caliber already before everyone got hurt, and had no realistic way to get from good to good enough, if good enough means a true talent top team in the league, without an unrealistic spending spree or trading the whole farm again, and even that might not have been enough.
Maybe. It's all on a continuum, anyway. The team as constituted was a fringe playoff team (very soft June schedule). Add Schwarber, Renfroe, and a blue chip arm, and they are a solid playoff team. Meanwhile, the injuries to the rotation starters at least, was totally predictable. that's what happens when you build a staff of old guys coming off down/injured years. Did anyone expect any of Sale, Hill, and Wacha to not miss significant time (and join Paxton on the IL)? ...oy.
 
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DJnVa

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In a push notification so no link but it said "Red Sox going to be active. Bloom: 'The puzzle is incomplete'".
 

joe dokes

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I'm curious to see what he does, because those seem like mutually exclusive things to a degree. If we have non-returning vets and a bunch of rule 40 guys, it might be possible to shift pieces around without entirely upsetting the apple cart. The problem is the vets who might be traded are generally doing well. . .so I'm not sure trading JD (or the like) and replacing his production with Pham will keep us in the mix through August and September.
I think trading JD and/or Eovaldi would make it much closer to mutually exclusive (i.e., I'd be completely wrong). If Bloom now knows that nobody he trades is fetching a grade A prospect anyway, maybe he just goes for more organization depth by moving players like JBJ and some Seabold-like younger players to open up room on the 40 roster. Ultimately, though, I dont see him making a team 3.0 games out of the playoffs on August 1 non-competitive, which I think moving one or (especially) both of them would do.
 

joe dokes

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Maybe. It's all on a continuum, anyway. The team as constituted was a fringe playoff team (very soft June schedule). Add Schwarber, Renfroe, and a blue chip arm, and they are a solid playoff team. Meanwhile, the injuries to the rotation starters at least, was totally predictable. that's what happens when you build a staff of old guys coming off down/injured years. Did anyone expect any of Sale, Hill, and Wacha to take not miss significant time (and join Paxton on the IL)? ...oy.
The expectation (or mine) was that Sale would replace one of the inevitably injured Hill or Wacha. That kinda sorta worked for a week or so. And the
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

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Maybe. It's all on a continuum, anyway. The team as constituted was a fringe playoff team (very soft June schedule). Add Schwarber, Renfroe, and a blue chip arm, and they are a solid playoff team. Meanwhile, the injuries to the rotation starters at least, was totally predictable. that's what happens when you build a staff of old guys coming off down/injured years. Did anyone expect any of Sale, Hill, and Wacha to take not miss significant time (and join Paxton on the IL)? ...oy.
First base and right field notwithstanding the bolded part is my biggest gripe with Bloom this year. Even if he were given the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't have known that Dalbec would revert to 2021 form and there's no way he could have foreseen that Kike would be out injured for a long stretch the current state of the starting rotation, given the guys who were comprising it, was indeed totally predictable.
 

BaseballJones

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Maybe. It's all on a continuum, anyway. The team as constituted was a fringe playoff team (very soft June schedule). Add Schwarber, Renfroe, and a blue chip arm, and they are a solid playoff team. Meanwhile, the injuries to the rotation starters at least, was totally predictable. that's what happens when you build a staff of old guys coming off down/injured years. Did anyone expect any of Sale, Hill, and Wacha to take not miss significant time (and join Paxton on the IL)? ...oy.
That’s fair but…you don’t expect them all to go down at the same time. It appeared that they were looking at a rotation of Pivetta, Eovaldi, Hill, Wacha, and then add Sale and Paxton in later. They then added Whitlock to the rotation. That’s seven guys. But at one point all of them but Pivetta was out. And they were calling up tons of AAA guys.

Yes injuries are to be expected, even more so with this group. But to have only Pivetta available at one point? I mean….no GM should really have that in his plans.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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First base and right field notwithstanding the bolded part is my biggest gripe with Bloom this year. Even if he were given the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't have known that Dalbec would revert to 2021 form and there's no way he could have foreseen that Kike would be out injured for a long stretch the current state of the starting rotation, given the guys who were comprising it, was indeed totally predictable.
Going in to the year, it looked like the pitching staff was going to be reliant on increased innings from Sale, Houck, and Whitlock- and ideally, a return to form from Barnes (with the Wacha and Hills of the world replacing Richards / Perez). Of course, Sale got hurt, Barnes was awful, and the Sox kind of seemed to not know what to do with Houck and Whitlock. Ultimately, the Sox are going to get less innings from Houck, Whitlock, and Sale this year than they did last year which I think has been the biggest problem.
 

FloridaSoxFan11

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That’s fair but…you don’t expect them all to go down at the same time. It appeared that they were looking at a rotation of Pivetta, Eovaldi, Hill, Wacha, and then add Sale and Paxton in later. They then added Whitlock to the rotation. That’s seven guys. But at one point all of them but Pivetta was out. And they were calling up tons of AAA guys.

Yes injuries are to be expected, even more so with this group. But to have only Pivetta available at one point? I mean….no GM should really have that in his plans.

Completely disagree when those names are

Eovaldi - injuries in 18, 19, 20
Hill - injuries in 18, 19, 20 (multiple each year)
Wacha - injuries in 18,19,20,21

Sale - don't need to rehash
Paxton - don't even count as he's a waste


It was lazy, honestly BS planning on Blooms part.
 

JM3

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Who should the Red Sox have acquired this past off season who is young & healthy & available & would have solved this super foreseeable problem of everyone getting injured? Keeping in mind for example that Wacha recently turned 31 & Whitlock recently turned 26, Eovaldi is 32, etc.
 

BaseballJones

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You expected all the starters but one to be injured at the same time? Six of seven guys all on the IL together?