My comment was definitely an overreaction. I'll give the guy a chance!On the radio yesterday, Bradford and Flemming were saying exactly the opposite. Made him sound positively Millar-like. The last round of tweets, above, backs that up.
My comment was definitely an overreaction. I'll give the guy a chance!On the radio yesterday, Bradford and Flemming were saying exactly the opposite. Made him sound positively Millar-like. The last round of tweets, above, backs that up.
This is now my favorite story of spring training and I'll be rooting for Holland to make the team and have a strong year. Whitlock comes off as being a very nice polite guy and Holland has shown a sense of humor about everything. Hopefully they can start a Porcello fan club together.
...a sign of an imminent Mitchie Two-Bags signing?That’s funny, they DFAd both guys they got for Mitch Moreland within 24 hours.
This is good research...but the applicable # is 22. 10 is Story's #.[goes and does some research]
#10's on Teams Derek Holland Has Played For:
- Rangers, 2009-2016: Michael Young wears #10 (later retired in 2019)
- White Sox, 2017: Yoan Moncada wears #10; Yoan was only in his second year but he joined the Other Sox about a week before Holland signed
- Giants, 2018-2019: Evan Longoria wears #10, after he joined the team via trade 3 months before Holland signs in Spring Training.
- Cubs, 2019: #10 retired in 2003 in honor of Ron Santo
- Pirates, 2020: Bryan Reynolds has been wearing #10 since 2019
- Tigers, 2021: this. is just a weird one. Only. one player has worn #10 for the Pirates since 1999, and that was Fernando Vina who wore it for 29 games. It might be semi-reitred in honor of Tommy Bridges, who played from 1930-1946
Oh, and Buck Farmer has been with the Tigers in the bigs since 2014, who'd drafted him the year before.
Holland's just about never had the chance to pick #10 (not that it sounds like it's of great significance to him). I suppose 2017 is somewhat similar to what's happened now, though who knows what went on with the White Sox: they probably wanted to make Yoan happy. Maybe each time he joins a team he asks and they've always said no.
That sounds ominous.Sigh, Boras.
"On a big day for shortstops in Ft. Myers, I asked Scott Boras what the future holds for Xander Bogaerts. "Xander really did the [Red Sox] organization a great favor. He could have been a free agent two years ago. We’ll see if that quid pro quo among them exists," he said. " - Pete Abe
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1506644352654848009
I understand that he works for his clients and this is his job,Sigh, Boras.
"On a big day for shortstops in Ft. Myers, I asked Scott Boras what the future holds for Xander Bogaerts. "Xander really did the [Red Sox] organization a great favor. He could have been a free agent two years ago. We’ll see if that quid pro quo among them exists," he said. " - Pete Abe
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1506644352654848009
Yes, this statement plus having Xander state he’s a SS are Boras posturing 101. Anyone want odds that he eventually declares the contract an epic victory?Meh. Boras is going to have his guy sign wherever he gets the most $$. Also, water is wet.
I am now 100% rooting for Derek Holland to have an awesome season.
I read an article about Boras once where he requires his clients to commit to only caring about the money as their criteria for signing.Meh. Boras is going to have his guy sign wherever he gets the most $$. Also, water is wet.
Did he start requiring that before or after Jason Varitek was a client? I seem to remember Tek taking a lesser offer (one that still got bitched about in these parts as he aged) to stay in Boston.I read an article about Boras once where he requires his clients to commit to only caring about the money as their criteria for signing.
In the end, he works for them, so the decision of which contact to sign is the player's. But it's probably closer to the other way around than any other client-player relationship in the game. Signing Boras as your agent is a very strong signal of future intent.
Didn't he overplay his hand and the Sox had to offer him a higher salary than needed so he could save a little face? Isn't that why people hated the contract?Did he start requiring that before or after Jason Varitek was a client? I seem to remember Tek taking a lesser offer (one that still got bitched about in these parts as he aged) to stay in Boston.
I think it might have been the option year they added that upset folks. They offered him arbitration, which was the precursor to qualifying offers that netted the team a draft pick if he signed elsewhere. He (or Boras) turned that down expecting to get a bigger/longer deal somewhere. He ended up coming back to the Sox for $5M plus a team option for $5M or a player option for $3M.Didn't he overplay his hand and the Sox had to offer him a higher salary than needed so he could save a little face? Isn't that why people hated the contract?
HAHAHA I'm gonna leave that egg on my face, I deserve it!This is good research...but the applicable # is 22. 10 is Story's #.
Trying again since I goofed earlier and looked at this from #10, not #22.Okay, now that actually is weird. He's been 45 his whole pro career other than last year as a Tiger, when he wore 49. I guess Buck Farmer gives no shits.
Boras may have gotten more aggressive in his negotiations with potential clients after decades of extremely successful contracts.Did he start requiring that before or after Jason Varitek was a client? I seem to remember Tek taking a lesser offer (one that still got bitched about in these parts as he aged) to stay in Boston.
I see your point, but...I mean, didn't Whitlock not even wear #22 last year? By all accounts, it doesn't sound like Holland strolled into camp and demanded #22. It sounds like he asked Whitlock if it would be ok if he wore 22 and Whitlock said it was fine---and that Holland had no idea that the number meant anything to Whitlock. Which is understandable---it would be weird if he was actually up to date on various players' quirks although I am a little surprised that Holland was so blase about taking up the mantle of legendary Red Sock Rick Porcello but he seems genuinely surprised that Whitlock had an attachment to the number and that if he had known he never would have asked. I also loved his response when asked about Story.Is it too much to ask of Holland to find out who has #22 on the RS before coming in and asking. He should have looked it up saw it was Whitlock, a guy who was in the majors all last year and moved on. If it was unused or another spring training body then to mr it’s different.
They are going to stick Bradley out there every day aren’t they? I don’t understand not getting someone.
Here we go again . . .They are going to stick Bradley out there every day aren’t they? I don’t understand not getting someone.
I'm not sure that prior research is necessary. Holland comes in, asks for 22 and I'm sure he was told that it was taken. It's odd because Holland seems to have not had a particular attachment to that number, but it's not like they ripped it from the kid's back. Whatever happened from that point is between Holland and Whitlock. Odd, bot really a big deal.Is it too much to ask of Holland to find out who has #22 on the RS before coming in and asking. He should have looked it up saw it was Whitlock, a guy who was in the majors all last year and moved on. If it was unused or another spring training body then to mr it’s different.
I mean to be fair, offensively he’s horribleHere we go again . . .
Duran's going to get at-bats. In Worcester. I think he starts the year there and Refsnyder makes the club as the 4th OF. He's not showing much, but he's a vet and he's RHH which provides the balance they need on the bench. Either that or they follow through on talk of using Arroyo into the super-utility role and split the 4th OF spot between him and JD.IMO Duran needs at-bats. We need to know what we have with him, before committing to other players. Give him 2 months, and if things aren't working out, we can trade for a replacement. I also wonder whether Dalbec is passable in LF. If Casas is up by June and Dalbec is hitting, rotating him and JD in LF could be a worth shot.
JBJ is here primarily to be a late-inning defensive replacement. If he recovers his hitting, he can start.
QO compensation goes away after the draft, not Opening Day.The best remaining free agent outfielder is Michael Conforto... No way they give up a draft pick to get him. Maybe an opening day signing as soon as his QO compensation is finished? How bad of a miscalculation was it to reject the offer?!
Thanks. He might be unemployed for a while.QO compensation goes away after the draft, not Opening Day.
I was a fan of this move: a clever way to flex the wallet and buy Binelas and get a phenomenal 4th outfielder for late inning defense to protect a lead…because they certainly aren’t planning to send him out there on the regular. Right?I mean to be fair, offensively he’s horrible
No doubt. But I was referring to the "THEY AREN'T UPGRADING THE TEAM AND SPENDING MONEY AND ADDING ANY TALENT" posts that overrode this board until that Story changed. Not even a week has passed and @Al Becker is whining that they don't have an upgrade for the outfield.I mean to be fair, offensively he’s horrible
Sometimes I really wonder what guys are thinking. A guy like Michael Conforto should be jumping at any $100M+ deal that is being offered. So much more downside for non-stars like him. I get these guys and their counsel all like to shoot for the moon but, man, I would be locking it up. Even the surefire stars like Acuna are willing to sacrifice some upside for the guaranteed cash.The best remaining free agent outfielder is Michael Conforto... No way they give up a draft pick to get him. Maybe an opening day signing as soon as his QO compensation is finished? His decision to decline was a terrible miscalculation...
Although, even if he signed a prorated "pillow contract" for $10 million in June, is still "set for life" money... Might as well shoot for "nobody in my family ever has to work for eternity" money, I guess?Sometimes I really wonder what guys are thinking. A guy like Michael Conforto should be jumping at any $100M+ deal that is being offered. So much more downside for non-stars like him. I get these guys and their counsel all like to shoot for the moon but, man, I would be locking it up. Even the surefire stars like Acuna are willing to sacrifice some upside for the guaranteed cash.
My concern is most viable pieces seem to be disappearing. I had hoped it would be addressed before that happened. Maybe they go the trade route. I guess if wanting the most competitive team out there we can have is whining, I’m guilty. Just not a big JBJ fan in a starting role.No doubt. But I was referring to the "THEY AREN'T UPGRADING THE TEAM AND SPENDING MONEY AND ADDING ANY TALENT" posts that overrode this board until that Story changed. Not even a week has passed and @Al Becker is whining that they don't have an upgrade for the outfield.
THERE ARE TWO WEEKS LEFT OF SPRING TRAINING
I see what you did there Lose. I agree they can still add a RH OF, but I moreso agree with RedHawk that they roll with Refsnyder as the 4th OFer.No doubt. But I was referring to the "THEY AREN'T UPGRADING THE TEAM AND SPENDING MONEY AND ADDING ANY TALENT" posts that overrode this board until that Story changed.
THERE ARE TWO WEEKS LEFT OF SPRING TRAINING
I agree - barring a trade for Myers, Pinder or Piscotty in the next week or so, Refsnyder seems like a bigger piece of the puzzle.Duran's going to get at-bats. In Worcester. I think he starts the year there and Refsnyder makes the club as the 4th OF. He's not showing much, but he's a vet and he's RHH which provides the balance they need on the bench. Either that or they follow through on talk of using Arroyo into the super-utility role and split the 4th OF spot between him and JD.
They'd have signed one by now if they hadn't given the money to the new second baseman. End of storyNo doubt. But I was referring to the "THEY AREN'T UPGRADING THE TEAM AND SPENDING MONEY AND ADDING ANY TALENT" posts that overrode this board until that Story changed. Not even a week has passed and @Al Becker is whining that they don't have an upgrade for the outfield.
THERE ARE TWO WEEKS LEFT OF SPRING TRAINING
I understand wanting both worlds of having good production a majority of the game and a defensive replacement late. But the most difficult or high leverage play in the outfield could occur during the early innings with mainly grounders to the infielders or strikeouts with JBJ just working the final outs. To use @johnnywayback 's phrasing above, there is a difference between below average offensive play and unplayable slump. If JBJ is OPS-ing in the .600s with occasional hot streaks, that is a lot more bearable than sitting at .150 with 2 homers on June 1st. I could take a full season of him starting with the former results.My concern is most viable pieces seem to be disappearing. I had hoped it would be addressed before that happened. Maybe they go the trade route. I guess if wanting the most competitive team out there we can have is whining, I’m guilty. Just not a big JBJ fan in a starting role.
Can't discount JD Martinez's usage in the outfield if they need it. In fact, given his history, we can't discount him playing the outfield on occasion even if there isn't a need.I would think they need to add an outfielder if only for depth purposes. The projected Worcester OF, if Refsnyder makes the big league team, would be Cordero, Duran, Christin Stewart, and Johan Mieses. Verdugo pulls a hamstring, or Bradley goes into one of his unplayable slumps, and suddenly you're not far from seeing some real dreck on the major league roster. So, if nothing else, you've got minor league offers out to Jake Marisnick, Juan Lagares, maybe even [eek] Danny Santana.
It is possible that they think Arroyo and/or Dalbec will be a passable LF option to start the year, but I'd be very surprised if they were banking on that.
I'd guess yes. Players are always tinkering with things. The extremeness of the changes? I'd guess no.Why do I sense that this is too much tinkering. Is this frequency of change commonplace?
A week ago there was so much whining here (yes, whining) that the Red Sox hadn't done anything to upgrade the team. And then they signed Story.My concern is most viable pieces seem to be disappearing. I had hoped it would be addressed before that happened. Maybe they go the trade route. I guess if wanting the most competitive team out there we can have is whining, I’m guilty. Just not a big JBJ fan in a starting role.