Red Sox in season discussion

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
17,245
Maine
One thing that's puzzling and I'm not sure if it's a culture around the Sox or just the luck of players they pick end up wanting to go to Free Agency... but they haven't had much luck in finding the budding stars on their team that will accept a big contract that buys out their arb years. Perhaps the Sox never offered it (okay... the one to Xander was, but it had those opt-outs) to Betts, Devers but I hope that they will seriously explore this with some of their younger guys if they develop how they hope. Getting long term contracts of guys for 8 years up to their age 32-34 seasons seems ideal.
Pedroia signed a long term deal that bought out free agent years. Bogaerts signed one also, unfortunately one that required an opt-out that he's going to exercise. I don't think the Sox have had any different luck when it comes to locking in home grown guys than other teams (is Judge really that much different a case from Betts or Devers?). We might just be a little too close to things being Sox fans that our perspective is off.

The deck is already tilted in the team's favor with young players since they come up essentially signed to dirt-cheap 6-7 year deals. There isn't a great ton of benefit to be realized for teams to lock in a young player beyond those seasons, especially early on. They might get cost-certainty (relative to going year-by-year in arbitration) but all the risk is on the team's side. It's a delicate balance to find a deal that somewhat mitigates the risk while also enticing a player to forego or delay free agency where they could earn (potentially a lot) more. Unsurprisingly, long term deals to pre-arb guys remain the exception rather than the rule.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,397
I think the team's success in 2021 also threw a bit of a wrench in Bloom's long-term plan. I'm not saying that he wanted the team to be worse, but I could totally see a scenario where the short-term signings (Hernandez, Richards, Renfroe) were flipped at the deadline for cost-controlled, future-focused assets. I guess that's just the nature of partial rebuilding.
If this team finished in last place in 2021 and it was followed by this, would Bloom still even be here?

One thing that's puzzling and I'm not sure if it's a culture around the Sox or just the luck of players they pick end up wanting to go to Free Agency... but they haven't had much luck in finding the budding stars on their team that will accept a big contract that buys out their arb years. Perhaps the Sox never offered it (okay... the one to Xander was, but it had those opt-outs) to Betts, Devers but I hope that they will seriously explore this with some of their younger guys if they develop how they hope. Getting long term contracts of guys for 8 years up to their age 32-34 seasons seems ideal.
Yeah, it almost seems like Red Sox players want a home town premium.
 

Daniel_Son

Member
SoSH Member
May 25, 2021
792
San Diego
If this team finished in last place in 2021 and it was followed by this, would Bloom still even be here?
I'd hope so. Ownership could've stuck with Dombrowski or made a lot of other decisions, but they brought in a guy from a franchise that prioritizes player development, scouting, and building a consistent pipeline of talent. Stomaching a few subpar seasons to get there is a feature, not a flaw. If they changed track after just 2 seasons, I'd be pretty disappointed.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,397
I'd hope so. Ownership could've stuck with Dombrowski or made a lot of other decisions, but they brought in a guy from a franchise that prioritizes player development, scouting, and building a consistent pipeline of talent. Stomaching a few subpar seasons to get there is a feature, not a flaw. If they changed track after just 2 seasons, I'd be pretty disappointed.
2 last place seasons in 2021 and 2022 give the last place season in 2020 a little bit more weight. It would be 3 years, 3 last place finishes. At least this year, they should finish with the 10th to 12th pick in the draft. Hard to see them finishing much worse or better.

Crazy the jump from 9th worst (62 wins) and 10th worst (68 wins) is 6 games.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
10,131
2 last place seasons in 2021 and 2022 give the last place season in 2020 a little bit more weight. It would be 3 years, 3 last place finishes. At least this year, they should finish with the 10th to 12th pick in the draft. Hard to see them finishing much worse or better.

Crazy the jump from 9th worst (62 wins) and 10th worst (68 wins) is 6 games.
I'd hope sox ownership would be smart enough to realize that "finishing last" really doesn't mean much when that finish is a close to .500 season
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
19,925
Rogers Park
I don’t understand how these two paragraphs play together. Not going for a full rebuild set the team back a year or two….but there really was no way to do a full rebuild because all of the tradeable assets(outside of Bogaerts) are a part of the rebuild.

So I’m genuinely curious what you think should have been done so as not to “set the team back a year or two.”
Personally, I don’t see how this year set them back in their big picture plan at all.
That's a valid question, and I totally get how my statements conflict with each other. My simple answer is, "I don't really know." I am sure the team felt they could be competitive out of the gate, but I think there were plenty of people who had a feeling this season would be a bit of a mess.

I still enjoy watching this team play and I am VERY excited for the future of this organization. I think they may have been better served not necessarily by "tanking" this year, but by not making moves that would destine them for mediocrity (read: I wish they were getting a higher draft pick out of the frustration of this season). I hope that they can turn it around quick enough that Bloom can keep his job, because I love where the organization is heading.... I just hope the fans/media/ownership will have the patience to allow him to get there. I doubt that they will.
It was hard to do a "full rebuild" without dealing Devers.

Once you're not doing that, you might as well try to compete as best you can without mortgaging the future.

So we get deals that send out Nick Northcut and Aldo Ramirez, not Nick Yorke and Brayan Bello. We get signings like Story who will still be useful in some capacity or other when the team is ready to compete, or else very short term acquisitions. And we end up with a roster that might have been pretty competitive if a few key things had gone right.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2006
32,525
Maui
Weird move this late in the season
Agreed. Has handled his pitchers well he been swinging the bat well lately. Might as well DFA JD and let some of the kids get more AB’s. He won’t be part of the picture in 2023.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
5,738
Weird move this late in the season
I agree, but I think it depends on what the corresponding move is. Maybe they bring Valdez up for the final few weeks and it begins to make a little more sense? Or it could be to get a look at Hernandez, who will be out of options next year?

(Actually, sounds like they will be replacing him with a pitcher, German or Politi who need to be added to the 40).
 
Last edited:

Papo The Snow Tiger

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 18, 2010
1,146
Connecticut
Agreed. Has handled his pitchers well he been swinging the bat well lately. Might as well DFA JD and let some of the kids get more AB’s. He won’t be part of the picture in 2023.
I don't get it either. It's not like there's someone coming off the IL that they need to make room for, and with the expanded rosters having a third catcher is an affordable luxury. I could see McGuire and Wong splitting 99% of the playing time from here on out, but with the Sox still playing the mfy, Toronto and TB a bunch of times more they still need to play to win if for no other reason than the integrity of the game.
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
726
Wasn't using Familia in the 10th the other night against the MFYs a clear sign that the team has no interest in "playing to win" anymore?
I would argue that has been Cora in a nutshell this season. It doesn't matter how ineffective a vetern reliever is, Cora will keep bringing them in at the worst times. See Diekman or Braiser.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
19,925
Rogers Park
I'm excited to see German. He has been impressive in the minor leagues.

AA: 11 1/3 IP, 18 K against 3 BB (!!!!), a sub-5 H/9, a .794 WHIP, and then a bunch of top line stats that suggest some absolutely heinous defense was played behind him.
AAA: 38 1/3 IP, 46 K against 16 BB, a sub-5 H/9, a .939 WHIP, and a 2.58 ERA.

Those numbers are great. He strikes out more than one an inning, walks a reasonable number, and concedes very few hits. His season batting line against is .155/.269/.226. He's 24, so that's pretty much par for the high minors.

Those numbers look like a guy who could be a big piece of next year's pen if he can make it translate.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I don't get it either. It's not like there's someone coming off the IL that they need to make room for, and with the expanded rosters having a third catcher is an affordable luxury. I could see McGuire and Wong splitting 99% of the playing time from here on out, but with the Sox still playing the mfy, Toronto and TB a bunch of times more they still need to play to win if for no other reason than the integrity of the game.
The expanded rosters basically yield one more position player. Luxury yes, affordable, YMMV.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,786
I would argue that has been Cora in a nutshell this season. It doesn't matter how ineffective a vetern reliever is, Cora will keep bringing them in at the worst times. See Diekman or Braiser.
To be fair, recognizing which point in the game is "the worst possible time" is a skill.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
17,245
Maine
Why not DFA him sooner, so he can catch on with a playoff team? Dumb. But inevitable.
That seems like a gesture you go out of your way to make to a vet who's never gotten a ring, not a guy who's already got one (that he won with you, to boot). They didn't DFA him sooner because they still had a use for him. Now they don't, so he's gone.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
19,925
Rogers Park
I'm excited to see German. He has been impressive in the minor leagues.

AA: 11 1/3 IP, 18 K against 3 BB (!!!!), a sub-5 H/9, a .794 WHIP, and then a bunch of top line stats that suggest some absolutely heinous defense was played behind him.
AAA: 38 1/3 IP, 46 K against 16 BB, a sub-5 H/9, a .939 WHIP, and a 2.58 ERA.

Those numbers are great. He strikes out more than one an inning, walks a reasonable number, and concedes very few hits. His season batting line against is .155/.269/.226. He's 24, so that's pretty much par for the high minors.

Those numbers look like a guy who could be a big piece of next year's pen if he can make it translate.
Well, that went poorly.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

critical thinker
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
8,603
That seems like a gesture you go out of your way to make to a vet who's never gotten a ring, not a guy who's already got one (that he won with you, to boot). They didn't DFA him sooner because they still had a use for him. Now they don't, so he's gone.
What ring did he win? He was signed as a free agent in 2020. The last catchers to win rings with Boston were Vásquez, Léon, and Swihart
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
5,738
This team seems pretty sensitive to guys being removed from the roster. Maybe look inward, if the team wasn’t in last place, those guys would still be here. A backup catcher with a sub 600 ops being waived shouldn’t be a shocker.
 
Aug 3, 2014
37
The Plawster seemed to be a favorite of Eovaldi and Hill and was doing some timely hitting. Seems pretty cold hearted this late in the season. Not a great move no matter what happens with German, who is a pawn in this one.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
79,351
Oregon
Beers with the Plawhorse after yesterday's game

“It’s a lot of emotions, but at the end, you grab a beer, sit with the players and we hang out a little bit. That’s what we did yesterday,” Cora said. “There was a big group hanging out with him which tells me a lot about this group.
“The family atmosphere is real,” Cora continued. “It was fun just to hang out with them and talk to them in a more relaxed environment with our guard down. It wasn’t about winning ballgames, calling games or being last place in the East. It’s being real. We were very real yesterday.”
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/09/kevin-plawecki-was-amazing-alex-cora-says-but-red-sox-cut-him-because-theyre-thinking-about-the-future.html
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 18, 2010
1,146
Connecticut
The Plawster seemed to be a favorite of Eovaldi and Hill and was doing some timely hitting. Seems pretty cold hearted this late in the season. Not a great move no matter what happens with German, who is a pawn in this one.
This is just the opposite of what Jimy Williams did for Steve Avery in 1997. Avery had a contract incentive that would kick in if he made 18 starts. He was removed from the rotation after his 17th start, and IIRC there was some talk that it was done for monetary reasons. Williams did give him start number 18 on September 24 so his incentive would kick in. I'm going on memory, but I recall Jimy defiantly saying something along the lines that it was the right thing to do. No matter what his faults, Williams won over the clubhouse right then. Judging from Rich Hill's comment above it appears things may be coming to a head in the Red Sox clubhouse.

AVERY GETS 18TH START; INCENTIVE WILL APPLY – Hartford Courant
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
5,738
The Sox also dumped Sawamura an appearance before he was due to get a bonus. Do wonder how popular Bloom is in the clubhouse; but perhaps more importantly, how well are he and Cora communicating?
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

critical thinker
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
8,603
Hill has been here less than one season this time around. He won't be here next year. I don't think the clubhouse chemistry will suffer much.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
33,066
Deep inside Muppet Labs

Lose Remerswaal

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apparently Sox are truly trying out Ort because he could turn into Jeffrey Springs. I laughed.

https://theathletic.com/3615401/2022/09/23/kaleb-ort-red-sox-chance/
I hope it happens, but that's such a stretch I can't help but think it's completely ridiculous. Springs went to Tampa where they seem to have a good record with these types of projects. The Sox don't have that.
That's the plan. Develop him here, cut him, TB picks him up and he soars. Bloom is an Embedded Ray
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 20, 2015
28,417
I didn't realize he got his velocity up until reading this article, honestly. So hey, he has something going for him for now.

I would be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks Jeffrey Springs would have never become what he is in TB if he stayed here. And that right there is the fatal flaw in the Sox system at this moment.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
63,163
I didn't realize he got his velocity up until reading this article, honestly. So hey, he has something going for him for now.

I would be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks Jeffrey Springs would have never become what he is in TB if he stayed here. And that right there is the fatal flaw in the Sox system at this moment.
It is really amazing to me how many posts there are on this site where one word mistakenly changes the meaning of the post 180 degrees from what the poster intended. Pretty sure you meant to leave out 'never'...

"I would be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks Jeffrey Springs would have never become what he is in TB if he stayed here."

"I would be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks Jeffrey Springs would have become what he is in TB if he stayed here."
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
63,163
I edited the sentence around, my bad.
I didn't really mean to single you out (sorry), I see it so often. If you're (you meaning anyone) going to take the time to write a post, just proofread it quickly and make sure you're actually saying what you want to do and not the complete opposite.