Red Sox acquire Adam Ottavino and RHP prospect Frank German from Yankees for PTBNL

jon abbey

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Have to say as a Yankee fan, I hate this, as he easily could find it again and be absolutely dominant. I was happy to move him, but not within the division.
 

Kliq

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He was lousy last year, but has been a pretty good relief guy for his career, especially for a guy who spent most of his time at Coors Field.
 

crow216

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Have to say as a Yankee fan, I hate this, as he easily could find it again and be absolutely dominant. I was happy to move him, but not within the division.
I agree, but I do trust Cashman in assessing Ottavino. I trust his assessment even more if he's willing to send him to Boston.
 

jon abbey

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So I originally read this as Boston giving up a prospect to acquire Ottavino. But...the Yankees are trading Ottavino AND a prospect to Boston for....what, exactly?
To clear his salary because they are very close to $210M and they have a 40 man crunch.
 

johnnywayback

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Ottavino at 1/8 would only be a slight overpay in this market -- thrilled to get a prospect in return for a few million dollars of cap space, and I like Ottavino more than anyone available other than maybe Rosenthal.
 

crow216

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So I originally read this as Boston giving up a prospect to acquire Ottavino. But...the Yankees are trading Ottavino AND a prospect to Boston for....what, exactly?
They have been rumored to be trading Ottavino for the last couple of weeks because they are extremely close to the luxury tax ($210m, they are around $205-206m). Trading Ottavino gives them a lot of flexibility either now or at the deadline. To do that, they needed a team to eat the contract, which apparently the Sox are doing at the cost of an additional prospect.
 

BaseballJones

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Well since the Sox have some space, to get a good relief pitcher AND a prospect.... that's a nice move for Bloom.
 

jon abbey

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Prospect might be Frank German, yet another of NY's seemingly endless supply of promising SPs.
 

jon abbey

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NY's 4th round pick in 2018, Fangraphs has him as NY's #33 prospect.
 

mauidano

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Does this mean NY is done with their big signings as they leave a little room at the top for emergencies and trade deadline?
 

nvalvo

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Ottavino is in the last year of a 3/$27 deal, but as we learned in the Myers discussion any NY financial contribution is defrayed from only the remainder of the contract.

So the AAV is $9m, minus whatever NY contributes.

His K rates and BB rates look good, but he gave up some haaaaaaard contact in 2020 after being elite in that metric years prior. But it was a short season of 18 IP, and — for a guy with a K/9 above 12 and a BB/9 above 4, only a sample of 50 balls in play. Looks like Cashman thinks that's real, and Bloom either thinks it might just be noise or else is buying a starting pitching prospect for a few million, which isn't a terrible idea.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Fangraphs write-up on German from early 2020: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/top-54-prospects-new-york-yankees/

32. Frank German, RHP
Drafted: 4th Round, 2018 from North Florida (NYY)
[TH]Age[/TH] [TH]Height[/TH] [TH]Weight[/TH] [TH]Bat / Thr[/TH] [TH]FV[/TH]
22.46′ 2″195R / R40

Tool Grades (Present/Future)
[TH]Fastball[/TH] [TH]Slider[/TH] [TH]Changeup[/TH] [TH]Command[/TH] [TH]Sits/Tops[/TH]
55/60 40/50 45/50 40/45 92-96 / 98

German was a solid middle-round college pitching prospect going into the 2018 draft, with most clubs treating him as a sixth to eighth round talent who could possibly be a target for the 11th-12th rounds and a $125,000 bonus, as cheap senior signs fill in the latter stages of the top 10 rounds. Then German (Dominican-born and whose name is pronounced like the European country) had one of the latest pre-draft velo spikes possible, suddenly hitting 95 mph during the Atlantic Sun conference tournament in his final college game just two weeks before Day One. Miles per hour are a dime a dozen these days, but German had the athleticism and arm action of a starter and had put on about 15 pounds in the previous 12 months, so some thought this could be coming. Clubs who had scouts at that final start shot him up their boards, and the Yankees jumped to the front of the line to take him in the fourth round.
The velo spike held throughout German’s first summer in pro ball — he sat 92-95 and touched 97 mph in the fall instructional league, and put on about 10 additional pounds after signing — and then moved yet another tick last year — 93-96, touch 98 — even though German is still starting. The length of his arm action and the gap between where his secondary stuff is (German’s college breaking ball was scrapped, and his changeup is now his best secondary) and what it’d have to be to play several times through the order means German is likely a fastball-heavy reliever.
 

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Don't really see a down side here. There were many on this board clamoring for Ottavino two years ago when he was a free agent. He had a superficially rough year last year that could very well be small sample noise (only 18 innings pitched). Other than that he's been a fairly consistent performer for the last few years.

He addresses a weakness and they get a prospect to boot. Sounds great to me.
 

jon abbey

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Does this mean NY is done with their big signings as they leave a little room at the top for emergencies and trade deadline?
Heyman says BOS is taking the full Ottavino deal so I think that puts NY back to around $14M under the $210M number. There have been rumors about them and Trevor Rosenthal, as well as giving Gardner a few mil to come back again.
 

crow216

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Ottavino is in the last year of a 3/$27 deal, but as we learned in the Myers discussion any NY financial contribution is defrayed from only the remainder of the contract.

So the AAV is $9m, minus whatever NY contributes.

His K rates and BB rates look good, but he gave up some haaaaaaard contact in 2020 after being elite in that metric years prior. But it was a short season of 18 IP, and — for a guy with a K/9 above 12 and a BB/9 above 4, only a sample of 50 balls in play. Looks like Cashman thinks that's real, and Bloom either thinks it might just be noise or else is buying a starting pitching prospect for a few million, which isn't a terrible idea.
The value for Boston, if you ask me, is that if they wind up fixing Ottavino somehow, they will have an EXCELLENT mid-season trade candidate to get a strong return. Wasn't long ago that Ottavino was a stud pitcher.

Edit: His 2019 stats might not show it, but he started to become unreliable and lose control during that season as well. The short version of Ottavino is that he has the nastiest slider you've ever seen but he struggles to control it. That's it.
 

jon abbey

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Ottavino is in the last year of a 3/$27 deal, but as we learned in the Myers discussion any NY financial contribution is defrayed from only the remainder of the contract.

So the AAV is $9m, minus whatever NY contributes.

His K rates and BB rates look good, but he gave up some haaaaaaard contact in 2020 after being elite in that metric years prior. But it was a short season of 18 IP, and — for a guy with a K/9 above 12 and a BB/9 above 4, only a sample of 50 balls in play. Looks like Cashman thinks that's real, and Bloom either thinks it might just be noise or else is buying a starting pitching prospect for a few million, which isn't a terrible idea.
There is a lefty/righty thing, Boone absolutely did not trust him against lefties after a certain point, which made him pretty unusable given the three batter minimum.
 

rodderick

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I really like this deal for the Red Sox. Ottavino was dominant with the Yankees in 2019 but really struggled last year. Maybe a change of scenery is needed.
In comparison to 2019, last year he had a higher strikeout%, lower walk% and higher GB%. Seems like the Sox could be the beneficiaries of some major regression to the mean.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Who wants to set the over/under on how many versions of “embedded Yankee” we get in the game thread the first time Ottavino gives up a HR against his old team?

(More seriously this appears to be a move with virtually zero risk and potentially big upside for the Sox, so I’m a fan of the trade.)
 

bosockboy

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So he’s pretty clearly the 9th inning guy at that money.

Curious how the rest of the roster plays out. Ideally they move Benintendi, and sign JBJ or Rosario.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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The value for Boston, if you ask me, is that if they wind up fixing Ottavino somehow, they will have an EXCELLENT mid-season trade candidate to get a strong return. Wasn't long ago that Ottavino was a stud pitcher.

Edit: His 2019 stats might not show it, but he started to become unreliable and lose control during that season as well. The short version of Ottavino is that he has the nastiest slider you've ever seen but he struggles to control it. That's it.
The value for Boston is dominant closer in the World Series
 

OurF'ingCity

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So he’s pretty clearly the 9th inning guy at that money.
I don’t think Bloom or Cora see any connection between salary and when a pitcher has to pitch. This is just the Sox using their increased space under the luxury tax to get a guy from a team that is much closer to the tax level.
 

chawson

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The value for Boston, if you ask me, is that if they wind up fixing Ottavino somehow, they will have an EXCELLENT mid-season trade candidate to get a strong return. Wasn't long ago that Ottavino was a stud pitcher.
I think this is bingo. Sox desperately need a guy who can get RHB out and Ottavino still very much does. With proper deployment his numbers are going to look pretty solid and he'll be a decent flip.

Fangraphs ranks German right in the King/Kriske/Nelson zone of Yankee prospects. He's probably right around #20 in our system.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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So he’s pretty clearly the 9th inning guy at that money.
I really hope his role isn't determined by his paycheck. If he turns out to be the relief ace he was in 2019, he better be used where the need is greatest, not just in the 9th.
 

nvalvo

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Looks to me like the Red Sox had ~$14.5m of cap space left after the Richards/Hernandez signings, and if we are indeed taking the whole deal, this leaves us around $5m remaining.
 

BostonFanInCanesLand

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Looks to me like the Red Sox had ~$14.5m of cap space left after the Richards/Hernandez signings, and if we are indeed taking the whole deal, this leaves us around $5m remaining.
That squares with Spotrac’s numbers


  • Est. Tax Space$5,088,333

 

chawson

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I really hope his role isn't determined by his paycheck. If he turns out to be the relief ace he was in 2019, he better be used where the need is greatest, not just in the 9th.
I wonder if it's a precursor to a Barnes trade. Barnes would look pretty good in San Diego right now and I don't buy that Preller's entering the season with Pomeranz as his closer.
 

jon abbey

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I wonder if it's a precursor to a Barnes trade. Barnes would look pretty good in San Diego right now and I don't buy that Preller's entering the season with Pomeranz as his closer.
That seems like a likely landing spot for Rosenthal also, but a lot of smoke around him and NYY the last week or so.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Ottavino was great against lefties (not as dominant as against righties, but very good) until 2019, at which point his hard hit % against them skyrocketed and he started walking them at an absurd rate. That fall off doesn't really correspond with a huge change in repetoire from what I can tell, other than in 2019 he threw his cutter more than ever, then in 2020 he only threw it 4% but added a changeup for the first time since 2014. The last two seasons were two of his three worst seasons at getting guys to swing at pitches out of the zone. I have no idea why, but I'm assuming that is the direct reason for his rising bb rate and hard contact %. If the Sox can fix something, and get him able to get guys to swing at pitches out of the zone again, I don't see why he can't be a great pitcher again. Big "if" of course

Edit: does anyone know the difference between the "Plate Discipline" and "Pitch Info Plate Discipline" tabs on Fangraphs?
 

nvalvo

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But Boston is also on the hook for the $3m deferred signing bonus. So, I believe its costing them $11m, $9m lux hit.
How do you get to $9 rather than $8.15? The signing bonus shouldn't matter to the AAV, and we learned from Speier during the Wil Myers saga that any cash moving in a trade is not amortized over past years of the deal.