Ravens game discussion thread

[Mystic Merlin]

If they take the safety, they could have burned 8 to 10 seconds off, tho, by running backwards and around. This isn't to say the safety was an awesome idea, because now you lose if the Ravens somehow kick a FG. My only complaint is the three kneels. That would have taken 8-10 seconds more off the clock. 

 
I think this is a good option if not for field position.  You're way too close to the EZ to try that, you aren't burning that much time off the clock.  Defenders are way too fast.  If they were near midfield, I think you could stick Edelman back there and have him run around and through the back of the end zone eventually.
 
Of course, BAL could call a fair catch on the free kick and throw a bomb.  And if a guy draws a flag, you've got a game winning FGA coming up.
 
Long story short, I would only attempt your suggestion if the ball was about 30 yards downfield and there was 9-10 seconds left instead of 14.  Cool to think through, though, I bet BB and Adams spend hours upon hours in the offseason looking over such scenarios.

 

[mascho]

All after Stork went out. their only two sacks came right after that. Along with the times he was driven into the turf.

I might be wrong, but I think Stork was hurt on the second sack. He was crawling off the field while Brady was being restrained from fighting either Upshaw or McPhee after the sack.

 

[TheMoralBully]

After an initial rough patch by Kline, the oline looked pretty much the same without Stork which bodes well for a potential injury.  They were getting zero push with or without Stork but they were holding the interior long enough for the Pats to abuse the Ravens with all the slants and stuff with Amendola and Edelman.  The tackles also held up really well considering the opposition.  This was a top defense and they managed to go 6-11 on 3rd own and averaged almost 8 yards per pass.  I thought it was a huge win for the offense and Brady and McDaniels were exceptional.

 

[Brohamer of the Gods]

I might be wrong, but I think Stork was hurt on the second sack. He was crawling off the field while Brady was being restrained from fighting either Upshaw or McPhee after the sack.

That is correct, and the scrum with Brady took away the cameras and commentators from Stork.

 

[Silverdude2167]

I might be wrong, but I think Stork was hurt on the second sack. He was crawling off the field while Brady was being restrained from fighting either Upshaw or McPhee after the sack.

You might be right, it all came in that one series. I thought stork went out before that, but may be not. It seemed like most of the pressure occurred on that series and the series afterwards. ( I could be mis-remembering)

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I haven't seen any updates on Stork.
 
Kind of expecting a quiet trip to IR for him.

 

[Shelterdog]

My big question from yesterday is where was Chandler Jones?  He was lined up against a UDFA rookie tackle and couldn't get to Flacco, not to mention being a liability in the run game.  Many posters in pre-game were confident he was going to destroy Hurst.  What happened?
 
Also I was mercilessly mocked for saying that Brady might have to play the game of his life to win this game.  After leading the team in both rushing and passing and bringing the team back twice from 14pt deficits I'd argue that might have been his top playoff performance given the circumstances (no OL/running game and little defense) and was one play away (Gronk Int) from being easily his best game.

I thought Jones was pretty good-he had about 10 QB pressures.

 

[Kull]

I might be wrong, but I think Stork was hurt on the second sack. He was crawling off the field while Brady was being restrained from fighting either Upshaw or McPhee after the sack.

 
Suggs fell/was pushed and landed on Stork's leg. His primary substantive contribution to the game.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I thought Jones was pretty good-he had about 10 QB pressures.

 
3 hits, 7 hurries, 4 tackles, per PFF. PFF liked his game outside of the offsides penalties.

 

[mascho]

I haven't seen any updates on Stork.
 
Kind of expecting a quiet trip to IR for him.

 
https://twitter.com/ProFootballDoc/status/554109381038469120
 
EDIT: Other than that, I have not seen anything.

 

[alydar]

Brady is now 9-2 in the Divisional Round, 13-2 at home in all playoff games, and 10-0 in the playoffs when facing a team for the first time that season.
 
I'd hate to be a Ravens fan today, there were certainly many opportunities for them to win, such a close game. The fumble recovery by Edelman was a combination of a great play by him and, from a Raven's perspective, bad luck in where the ball bounced. I thought the Ravens did a real disservice to their chances by taking Forsett off the field on the final drive (or, at least, taking him out of the backfield). They were running the ball really well, time was not really working against them, and it is not hard to envision them ripping of a few 8 - 12 yard stretch plays or counters against a defense playing nickel or dime. 
 
Amenodola's pick up on 3rd and 6, where he broke two tackles including one around his head was such a crucial play. The line of gain was the Baltimore 38, and I'm not sure what they would have done if he didn't make it -- the first contact occurred a good 3 yards shy of the marker. 10 minutes to go in the game down 3, I really doubt they would have tried the 50+ yard field, especially going into the open end of the stadium. So it would have set up a critical 4th down, and with no threat of the run, a tough conversion. 
 
While Brady's interception at the end of the first half was obviously his biggest mistake, really the only other time in the game where I thought the Pats really failed to execute was immediately after the McCourty interception. They had the ball on Baltimore's 37, and 3 incompletions later, punted for a net gain of 17 yards. To not get any points there, had things turned out differently, could have been a real turning point.

 

[Devizier]

 
3 hits, 7 hurries, 4 tackles, per PFF. PFF liked his game outside of the offsides penalties.

 
How much did Jones do against Yanda? Seemed like nobody got anything on the guy, and that Flacco bootlegged behind him a lot without consequence.

 

[Koufax]

OK by Superbowl is a pretty good result if there were no other serious injuries.

 

[RIrooter09]

OK by Superbowl is a pretty good result if there were no other serious injuries.

 
Hopefully Kline can hold up against Knighton and that interior D-line of Denver.

 

[Dollar]

 
Amenodola's pick up on 3rd and 6, where he broke two tackles including one around his head was such a crucial play. The line of gain was the Baltimore 38, and I'm not sure what they would have done if he didn't make it -- the first contact occurred a good 3 yards shy of the marker. 10 minutes to go in the game down 3, I really doubt they would have tried the 50+ yard field, especially going into the open end of the stadium. So it would have set up a critical 4th down, and with no threat of the run, a tough conversion. 

The most shocking thing about that play, to me, was that the line judge spotted it correctly for the first down. From where he was standing, i thought there was no chance he'd be able to see Amendola stretching the ball past the marker and that he would just mark it where his feet went out of bounds. A marking just short of the line to gain probably wouldn't have been overturned conclusively, so getting the spot right initially was huge. The one bright spot for the officials in this game, imo.

 

[dcmissle]

The oline had a bad stretch right after Stork went out, but other than that they did a very good job pass protecting. For all the talk about the Ravens front 7 they did very little against the pass. Of the Pats 3 punts, the first one was a bad throw by Brady and also a great catch by Amendola, the one in the second half came after the obvious DPI against Gronk that went uncalled, even the interception Brady had plenty of time.
 
They could not run the ball, but the Ravens did not get a ton of pressure and the tackles played great.

Brady had a great night because the passes came out quick, the front 7 were neutralized as many of us hoped and expected, and the back 4 were exposed.

But at least acknowledge sub par I line performance. You predicted a 38 to 10 Patriots win and also predicted that they would be able to run some. Not down their throats, but effectively in spots.

14 yards were the fewest yards ever gained on the ground by a playoff winner, and the Pats lost the battle on both lines of scrimmage, often times decisively. Which only makes the win and Brady's performance more remarkable.

We play like his against Seattle especially, we are goin to get killed.

 

[Import78]

- The conventional punt should still get off almost every time, since the protection knows the rush is selling out.  It's a high percentage punt with max protect.  When the Pats took a safety in DEN in 2003 to get the free kick, they were backed up at the 1 yard line, which means Walter - the P at the time - had almost no room.  Different situation.
 

 
The other thing that made it different from the DEN game is the score.  In Denver they were up 6 so giving up those 2 points doesn't make a difference in the opponent strategy.  A TD still beats you and an FG isn't enough.  Last night giving up those 2 points means the Ravens don't have to go for a TD to get the win.

 

[j44thor]

I thought Jones was pretty good-he had about 10 QB pressures.

 
He was up against a rookie UDFA and didn't get a single sack and was a non-factor in the run game.  I expected much, much more.
That would have been pretty good against a healthy Monroe, not Hurst.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Bedard just now: Pats ineligible/eligible strategy was 'shady' yet 'perfectly legal.'
 
My brain broke.

 

[lexrageorge]

If they take the safety, they could have burned 8 to 10 seconds off, tho, by running backwards and around. This isn't to say the safety was an awesome idea, because now you lose if the Ravens somehow kick a FG. My only complaint is the three kneels. That would have taken 8-10 seconds more off the clock. 

I think that burning off those seconds would be a lot more difficult than it appears.  The punt unit is rushing in full bore, and you're asking players to do something unusual in their own end zone.  The risk of a fumble is high.  Plus there's the whole issue of hoping the subsequent free kick play is successfully executed.  I'm sure Allen had already been instructed to run out of the end zone if the snap was bad or the line broke down.  
 
As to the 3 kneel downs, there are 2 sides to that coin.  A fumble is really bad, and may be more likely than a bad play on the punt and subsequent return (Belichick seems to have a lot of confidence in his punt unit).  Still, I would have tried one off tackle run.  
 
On a different topic, the last pass by Flacco was truly a horrible decision.  Not even sure I like the play call.  Yes, at 2nd-and-5 it's not the worse time to try for the end zone.  But he really should have threw it away.  And, yes, Ravens fans must be storming their version of SoSH, screaming about the fact that the coaches took the ball out of Forsett's hands at the end of the Ravens' FG drive.  

 

[Silverdude2167]

Brady had a great night because the passes came out quick, the front 7 were neutralized as many of us hoped and expected, and the back 4 were exposed.

But at least acknowledge sub par I line performance. You predicted a 38 to 10 Patriots win and also predicted that they would be able to run some. Not down their throats, but effectively in spots.

14 yards were the fewest yards ever gained on the ground by a playoff winner, and the Pats lost the battle on both lines of scrimmage, often times decisively. Which only makes the win and Brady's performance more remarkable.

We play like his against Seattle especially, we are goin to get killed.

I did not predict a 38 to 10 Pats win, but I did expect the Pats to win easily if they neutralized the rush. I don't think anyone saw the defense playing like that, if they play better the Pats role. I also did not say they would be able to run some (although I did expect them to do something), I only pointed out that If you take out 4 games vs. the sisters of he poor Baltimore average about 2 sacks a game, which is what they ended up with. The Online played well for the game plan outside of two series, I don't think that is a incorrect statement.
 
I think the Offense could do ok vs. Seattle, but if the DLine plays like that vs. Seattle then they will get killed. But I am not concerned about Seattle yet. Denver has always scared me far more than Baltimore (justified or not) so lets deal with them first.

 

[j44thor]

Bedard just now: Pats ineligible/eligible strategy was 'shady' yet 'perfectly legal.'
 
My brain broke.

 
Jimmy Johnson had the opposite reaction on Dallas pre-game, said play has been around for years and no reason to be upset, something he used to run as a HS coach.  Nice subtle jab at Harbaugh.

 

[Devizier]

 
Hopefully Kline can hold up against Knighton and that interior D-line of Denver.

 
I expect Denver, but aside from CAR-SEA there are no gimmes in this round.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

 
Jimmy Johnson had the opposite reaction on Dallas pre-game, said play has been around for years and no reason to be upset, something he used to run as a HS coach.  Nice subtle jab at Harbaugh.

 
I suspect within a couple days Harbaugh is going to greatly regret his reaction and comments.
 
1. He probably deserves a fine for his insinuations, the NFL being the NFL...at a minimum, Ravens may feel some pressure to issue a statement that backs away from what he said
2. Even now, thinking NFL fans realize that Harbaugh didn't know the rules and his team wasn't prepared for that legal play.   Looking at Ravens forums and twitter feeds, he's getting killed on this and deservedly so.   He highlighted this fact with his reaction, and is now reaping the consequences
3.  His players know that their coach got schooled and that's never helpful

 

[dcmissle]

I did not predict a 38 to 10 Pats win, but I did expect the Pats to win easily if they neutralized the rush. I don't think anyone saw the defense playing like that, if they play better the Pats role. I also did not say they would be able to run some (although I did expect them to do something), I only pointed out that If you take out 4 games vs. the sisters of he poor Baltimore average about 2 sacks a game, which is what they ended up with. The Online played well for the game plan outside of two series, I don't think that is a incorrect statement.
 
I think the Offense could do ok vs. Seattle, but if the DLine plays like that vs. Seattle then they will get killed. But I am not concerned about Seattle yet. Denver has always scared me far more than Baltimore (justified or not) so lets deal with them first.

Poster misidentified; my bad.

The easy win went out the window with the sequence at the end of the first half, which might have represented a 14 point swing. Which is ironi given who is chiefly responsible for the win.

You win very few games being beaten on the lines as we were.

Our defense shocked me. I expected better and did not expect the ball run down our throats for substantial stretches.

 

[lexrageorge]

Bedard just now: Pats ineligible/eligible strategy was 'shady' yet 'perfectly legal.'
 
My brain broke.

You have guys like Mike Reiss who really shine even after they leave the Globe.  Then you have Bedard, who seems to get worse every year.  
 

We play like his against Seattle especially, we are goin to get killed.

 
I thought Solder and Vollmer played well; Brady did throw 51 times, and even if they were mostly quick passes, the outside seemed to keep the edge rushers off Brady long enough to make them happen.
 
In interior line was horrible to my untrained eye, and I agree 100% with your statement above.  The worrying point is that this was a known weakness.  
 
However, the play of the D-line was far more disappointing.  Borges' bleatings from this morning aside, I really thought the defense front had improved this season over years past.  With both 40 sacks and 4.0 rushing yards per attempt, the D was better than average statistically in both areas all season.  

 

[Kliq]

You guys think Ball So Hard University is a more accredited school than Arizona State, which is why Suggs says it?

 

[RIrooter09]

The D had a bad game, but they suffered no major injuries and were staistically much better than this all year.  It happens.  I don't see a repeat performance next week.

 

[PedrosRedGlove]

 
I am assuming it's the risk of the fumble more than being pinned back, as kneeling guarantees to pin you back.

 
Absolutely, the fumble is the bigger risk, but just with the way the defensive line was getting penetration, even attempting a hand off ran the potential risk to lose 4-6 yards.  It has been said already, but minimizing the risk of a fumble was probably the reasoning behind the call to kneel.  Any play that attempted to run time off the clock brought a little reward with a lot of risk and the Ravens were getting into the backfield very quickly.

 

[Leather]

You guys think Ball So Hard University is a more accredited school than Arizona State, which is why Suggs says it?

Wait what?

 

[dcmissle]

Just want to say again that the Pats showed more heart, grit, resilience and toughness than in any other game in the last 15 years. In the 01 SB, we were playing with house money. Legacies were at stake last night as they will be next week. And given the Raven's track record, a fuck ton of pressure was on the Pats. So many things went wrong, but TB tore their heart out and ate it. Jordanesque performance.

 

[ObstructedView]

Couple things:
 
1. From Baltimore's perspective, I have no problem with going for the block -- but the returner then HAS to make a fair catch knowing that a return isn't set up. The Ravens should've had two shot at the end zone at the end.
 
2. Posted this in the game thread, but I'd love it someone put together a montage of all the times Brady was drilled into the turf well after releasing the ball. I know the refs supposedly swallow the whistle during the playoffs, but protecting the QB is supposed to remain a priority and they obviously didn't hesitate to call ticky-tack penalties in other phases of the game.

 

[DJnVa]

Also I was mercilessly mocked for saying that Brady might have to play the game of his life to win this game.  After leading the team in both rushing and passing and bringing the team back twice from 14pt deficits I'd argue that might have been his top playoff performance given the circumstances (no OL/running game and little defense) and was one play away (Gronk Int) from being easily his best game.

 
I'm all for hyperbole, but Brady didn't lead the team in rushing yesterday.

 

[Leather]

Remember when "THE PATRIOTS HAVENT WON A PLAYOFF GAME SINCE THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION!!!"?

 

[lexrageorge]

Couple things:
 
1. From Baltimore's perspective, I have no problem with going for the block -- but the returner then HAS to make a fair catch knowing that a return isn't set up. The Ravens should've had two shot at the end zone at the end.
 
2. Posted this in the game thread, but I'd love it someone put together a montage of all the times Brady was drilled into the turf well after releasing the ball. I know the refs supposedly swallow the whistle during the playoffs, but protecting the QB is supposed to remain a priority and they obviously didn't hesitate to call ticky-tack penalties in other phases of the game.

In a lot of cases, Brady got rid of the ball at the last second without flinching.  The refs will allow him to get drilled when that happens, as there's no way for the defender to react.  The rule book does give the defenders some leeway in that case.  
 
Very few penalties looked truly ticky-tack.  The DPI against Revis comes closest, but that was a defensible call that could have gone either way.  The missed DPI when Gronk was held was more egregious, but that was a missed call, not ticky-tack. 
 
Correct on the punt return, but the Hail Mary likely would have eaten up the remaining 8 or 9 seconds anyway (which is about all they would have had in the event of a fair catch; the clock started on the snap of the ball).  They may have had time for a 10-15 yard sideline pass before the Hail Mary, but even that would have been cutting it awfully close.  

 

[Dollar]

Am I the only one who was terrified that the Pats punting unit was going to audible to a fake punt pass with the entire middle of the field open with the Ravens bringing everyone to block the punt. It might not have been the worst idea ever, but asking Allen to throw an easy 10 yard pass to a wide open receiver would have had me shitting myself.

 

[DJnVa]

You're wrong.
 
It would have been the worst idea ever.

 

[Stitch01]

My big question from yesterday is where was Chandler Jones?  He was lined up against a UDFA rookie tackle and couldn't get to Flacco, not to mention being a liability in the run game.  Many posters in pre-game were confident he was going to destroy Hurst.  What happened?
 
Also I was mercilessly mocked for saying that Brady might have to play the game of his life to win this game.  After leading the team in both rushing and passing and bringing the team back twice from 14pt deficits I'd argue that might have been his top playoff performance given the circumstances (no OL/running game and little defense) and was one play away (Gronk Int) from being easily his best game.

Yeah, that comment that the Pats would need Brady to have the game of his life to have chance remains stupid and mock worthy.

Something was funky with the clock at the end too, although they probably couldn't run it down enough to be able to end the play on 4th down by taking a safety or throwing the bomb so not running plays is a bit of a screw up.

 

[Stitch01]

Just want to say again that the Pats showed more heart, grit, resilience and toughness than in any other game in the last 15 years. In the 01 SB, we were playing with house money. Legacies were at stake last night as they will be next week. And given the Raven's track record, a fuck ton of pressure was on the Pats. So many things went wrong, but TB tore their heart out and ate it. Jordanesque performance.

Meh disagree somewhat. That was a great performance but the Pats have come back from large deficits a number of times. Why was that more resilient or tough than the playoff game in SD in '07 or coming back 24-0 against Denver last year? Same kind of game as the Pat comebacks in recent years too...Brady putting the team on his back while the rest of the units struggled.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Bedard just now: Pats ineligible/eligible strategy was 'shady' yet 'perfectly legal.'
 
My brain broke.

Bedard has turned into a hack. I'm still waiting for the "indisputable facts" that support his contention that the Pats can't coach DBs.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

But to his point, they never went into the tank or panicked when a ton of other teams - including some of the league's better teams - would have.  
 
And the special teams and defense made some high-lev plays.  That final seventy seconds was pretty much textbook, from Harmon playing single high beautifully and the hail mary defense.  DMC batted it away from the end zone, and Logan Ryan pushed Torrey Smith as soon as he did.

 

[dbn]

lexrageorge brings up the DPI/holding penalties. What are people's thoughts on them? I re-watched the highlights this morning and my feelings are that, as lex says, they missed a clear DPI against Gronk. At the time I thought the long DPI on Revis was a bad call. Re-watching it, however, that was DPI within the standards of how they are calling it these days. Personally, I wish that amount of contact was legal, but I guess it just isn't. (Aside: watch that play again imagining that Revis was the offensive player - does he get called for OPI? No way.) The Browner DPI was clearly DPI. I at first thought the Revis hold was a bit ticky-tac, at the "sometimes they call that, sometimes they don't" level, but after re-watching, it was clearly a proper call. In the regular-view (i.e., camera looking down on the pre-snap line then following the QB drop) footage you can clearly see the receiver get turned and held back for an instant.
 
edit: here are the game highlights from NFL.com. The Revis DPI might have been called because Smith fell backwards at the end, and perhaps the ref thought he was pushed (he wasn't)?

 

[j44thor]

Yeah, that comment that the Pats would need Brady to have the game of his life to have chance remains stupid and mock worthy.

Something was funky with the clock at the end too, although they probably couldn't run it down enough to be able to end the play on 4th down by taking a safety or throwing the bomb so not running plays is a bit of a screw up.

And 100% accurate so your point is???
 
Guess when you are the smartest man in the room even when you are wrong you are still right.  Must be nice.

 

[DJnVa]

Well, I guess the first thing to note is that it wasn't the game of his life.

 

[j44thor]

 
I'm all for hyperbole, but Brady didn't lead the team in rushing yesterday.

Actually if you take away the kneel downs and give him the 4yd run that was negated with the too many men penalty he would have.
Semantics was the difference.  That would have been 8yds rushing plus a TD.  Bolden had 7yds.

 

[snowmanny]

What I didn't understand was why the Patriots never made any adjustment to stop that screen pass (usually to the right side of the offense).  It was wide open all game, including for Baltimore's last touchdown.  What were they thinking?  A third of the field was just left uncovered the whole game.
 
That missed DPI against Gronk was obvious and was huge.  It was an easy play for the Pats that was a first down and the only way the defense was going to stop it was to blatantly interfere and hope the refs didn't call it.  I can't fathom how they missed it.

 

[DJnVa]

Actually if you take away the kneel downs and give him the 4yd run that was negated with the too many men penalty he would have.
Semantics was the difference.  That would have been 8yds rushing plus a TD.  Bolden had 7yds.

 
Granted. Although he only did that 4 yard run BECAUSE there were too many men on field. They just wanted to catch them.

 

[j44thor]

Well, I guess the first thing to note is that it wasn't the game of his life.

 
It wasn't?  Based on circumstances I tend to disagree.  Game of his life doesn't mean statistically his best game.  Given that they twice came back from a 14pt deficit which has never been done in playoff history and that they did this without a running game whatsoever I would disagree that this wasn't his best game given the circumstances.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

What I didn't understand was why the Patriots never made any adjustment to stop that screen pass (usually to the right side of the offense).  It was wide open all game, including for Baltimore's last touchdown.  What were they thinking?  A third of the field was just left uncovered the whole game.
 
That missed DPI against Gronk was obvious and was huge.  It was an easy play for the Pats that was a first down and the only way the defense was going to stop it was to blatantly interfere and hope the refs didn't call it.  I can't fathom how they missed it.

 
Did BAL run any screens?  They ran swing passes and some flat routes, but I don't recall much in the way of screens.
 
Anyways, Collins busted a coverage on the Forsett TD.  It wasn't schematic.
 
And BAL was going to their FB in key spots on flat routes, tough to snuff out like their 5th target, especially on fourth and 1 on a play action. 

 

[Shelterdog]

Yeah, that comment that the Pats would need Brady to have the game of his life to have chance remains stupid and mock worthy.

Something was funky with the clock at the end too, although they probably couldn't run it down enough to be able to end the play on 4th down by taking a safety or throwing the bomb so not running plays is a bit of a screw up.

DMC told the media that when they were coming off the field after the Harmon pick the coaches were telling them that they'd have one more play. The pats knew they couldn't take the clock to zero-they must have been taking knees to avoid a turnover.