Rafael Devers: post extension performance

[soxhop411]

Mass Live just posted a story talking about how Devers is having his worst OVERALL (offense and defense) season since 2018 when he was a rookie.

BOSTON — Third baseman Rafael Devers’ bad defense again hurt the Red Sox on Tuesday. Devers made his 17th error and Boston lost 6-2 to the Astros, dropping its odds of making the playoffs to 6%, per Fangraphs.com.


“We put ourselves in a bad spot not making plays,” manager Alex Cora said.


Houston went ahead 3-1 in the fifth inning after Devers made a fielding error with one out on Mauricio Dubon’s grounder to third. Second baseman David Hamilton had a chance to turn a double play and escape the inning without any runs scored but he skipped a throw past first baseman Triston Casas. The next hitter, Alex Bregman, ripped an RBI single. Cora was asked if those two plays defined the game.



“I believe so, yeah,” Cora said. “We didn’t make two routine plays and they (the Astros) are really good at what they do.”

Devers, who was not available to the media following the loss, entered Tuesday ranked 14th out of 15 qualified third basemen in defensive runs saved (-5). He leads all Red Sox players in WAR (2.6). But his WAR this year compared to his other seasons shows he’s having his worst year (not including COVID-shortened 2020) since 2018 when he was a 21 year old in his first full big league season.



Devers led all Red Sox players in WAR (6.7) in 2019 — ahead of Mookie Betts (6.4) and Xander Bogaerts (5.9). He posted a 4.2 WAR in 2021 and a 4.8 WAR last year.



Devers is producing offensively with a .269/.344/.509/.853 line, 29 homers, 28 doubles and 88 RBIs in 125 games. But his bad defense has him nowhere near his WAR totals from his previous three full seasons.



His 17th error Tuesday ties him for the most errors in the big leagues. It comes after he signed a 10-year, $313.5 million contract extension in January.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/08/rafael-devers-hurting-red-soxs-playoff-odds-having-worst-season-since-18.html

Devers needs to spend the entire offseason working on his defense and nothing else. Is is way to young to end up being a DH because he is a butcher in the field.

 

[BravesField]

Mass Live just posted a story talking about how Devers is having his worst OVERALL (offense and defense) season since 2018 when he was a rookie.


https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/08/rafael-devers-hurting-red-soxs-playoff-odds-having-worst-season-since-18.html

Devers needs to spend the entire offseason working on his defense and nothing else. Is is way to young to end up being a DH because he is a butcher in the field.

I couldn't agree more.....but what's his motivation to do so? He's got his ring, contract and cash.

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

Not counting the Yankee series he's hit .240 with four homers and five doubles since the ASB. His three RBIs in the last eight days all came in a 17-1 game. He's made brutal errors. In short, he's had a dreadful stretch run when the team needed him most.

 

[scottyno]

I couldn't agree more.....but what's his motivation to do so? He's got his ring, contract and cash.

What's any superstars motivation to get better? He presumably wants to be an mvp candidate, win rings, and make the hall of fame some day

 

[LogansDad]

I couldn't agree more.....but what's his motivation to do so? He's got his ring, contract and cash.

This post is fucking ridiculous.

 

[E5 Yaz]

This post is fucking ridiculous.

Not even the worst of the past 24 hours on this situation

 

[LogansDad]

Not even the worst of the past 24 hours on this situation

Doesn't make it less ridiculous.

 

[chawson]

Mass Live just posted a story talking about how Devers is having his worst OVERALL (offense and defense) season since 2018 when he was a rookie.

And coincidentally his lowest BABIP since his 2018 rookie season as well.

I'm not worried about Devers at the plate. He's chasing less and whiffing less than last year.

The recent gaffes notwithstanding, I wonder if the volatility at shortstop has messed with Raffy's fielding. His OAA by month:

Mar/Apr: +2
May: -2
June: -2
July: -6
August: 0

This is probably just noise, but he seems to have stabilized in August.

 

[shaggydog2000]

And coincidentally his lowest BABIP since his 2018 rookie season as well.

I'm not worried about Devers at the plate. He's chasing less and whiffing less than last year.

The recent gaffes notwithstanding, I wonder if the volatility at shortstop has messed with Raffy's fielding. His OAA by month:

Mar/Apr: +2
May: -2
June: -2
July: -6
August: 0

This is probably just noise, but he seems to have stabilized in August.

Defensive numbers are noisy in general.

 

[8slim]

Not counting the Yankee series he's hit .240 with four homers and five doubles since the ASB. His three RBIs in the last eight days all came in a 17-1 game. He's made brutal errors. In short, he's had a dreadful stretch run when the team needed him most.

Why do we not count the Yankees series? I'm guessing you'd count them if we lost 2 of 3 and he was bad at the plate?

 

[Al Zarilla]

Mass Live just posted a story talking about how Devers is having his worst OVERALL (offense and defense) season since 2018 when he was a rookie.


https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/08/rafael-devers-hurting-red-soxs-playoff-odds-having-worst-season-since-18.html

Devers needs to spend the entire offseason working on his defense and nothing else. Is is way to young to end up being a DH because he is a butcher in the field.

Maybe Devers can get Wade Boggs to work with him on his fielding. What else is Wade doing nowadays anyway?

Hitting too, while he's at it.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Maybe Devers can get Wade Boggs to work with him on his fielding. What else is Wade doing nowadays anyway?

Hitting too, while he's at it.

May he rest in peace.

 

[NickEsasky]

May he rest in peace.

He died how he lived. Drinking 72 beers on a transcontinental flight.

 

[8slim]

He died how he lived. Drinking 72 beers on a transcontinental flight.

I would have thought eating chicken while bangin' Margo Adams would be the way he'd want to go out.

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

Why do we not count the Yankees series? I'm guessing you'd count them if we lost 2 of 3 and he was bad at the plate?

Small sample size that runs counter to the other 32 games?

 

[Sin Duda]

I would have thought eating chicken while bangin' Margo Adams would be the way he'd want to go out.

Yes, but washing the chicken down with beer while on a transcontinental flight

 

[GrandSlamPozo]

Small sample size that runs counter to the other 32 games?

These are Devers' total numbers since the all star break:
Rafael Devers Batting Gamelogs for Career Games 777 to 814
(removed)

What the hell the table formatting looked perfect in the preview lol
Click link to see Devers actual stats since the all star break:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=deverra01&t=b&year=2023#777-814-sum:batting_gamelogs

In the 3 games against the Yankees he went 9 for 13 with 2 homers and a double. So not only is the premise behind your post ridiculous, your numbers are also wildly incorrect - if you take out the Yankees series then he's hitting .267 with 7 homers and 7 doubles in 35 games since the break, not .240 with 4 homers and 5 doubles in 32 games.

 

[scottyno]

These are Devers' total numbers since the all star break:
Rafael Devers Batting Gamelogs for Career Games 777 to 814
(removed)

What the hell the table formatting looked perfect in the preview lol
Click link to see Devers actual stats since the all star break:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=deverra01&t=b&year=2023#777-814-sum:batting_gamelogs

In the 3 games against the Yankees he went 9 for 13 with 2 homers and a double. So not only is the premise behind your post ridiculous, your numbers are also wildly incorrect - if you take out the Yankees series then he's hitting .267 with 7 homers and 7 doubles in 35 games since the break, not .240 with 4 homers and 5 doubles in 32 games.

Woah I had no idea that was a thing you could do on reference

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

These are Devers' total numbers since the all star break:
Rafael Devers Batting Gamelogs for Career Games 777 to 814
(removed)

What the hell the table formatting looked perfect in the preview lol
Click link to see Devers actual stats since the all star break:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=deverra01&t=b&year=2023#777-814-sum:batting_gamelogs

In the 3 games against the Yankees he went 9 for 13 with 2 homers and a double. So not only is the premise behind your post ridiculous, your numbers are also wildly incorrect - if you take out the Yankees series then he's hitting .267 with 7 homers and 7 doubles in 35 games since the break, not .240 with 4 homers and 5 doubles in 32 games.

My mistake, I was looking at the numbers from July 19. So he had three good games right after the ASB. Big deal. My numbers are correct since the 19th. He's still been awful over the last five weeks aside from a three game blip.

 

[Al Zarilla]

May he rest in peace.

You scaret me. Boggs 65 YO in Omaha, NE.

 

[jon abbey]

Not everyone watches one of the great shows of our generation (their loss):

https://www.slashfilm.com/1244525/origin-its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-wade-boggs-episode/

View: https://youtu.be/C5bI1UPu2MI?si=SnH7zAuUskN-6-nU

 

[BravesField]

Maybe Devers can get Wade Boggs to work with him on his fielding. What else is Wade doing nowadays anyway?

Hitting too, while he's at it.

The last guy to mentor Raffy should be Boggs. Boggs would have Raffy eating fried chicken before every game. Raffy is heavy enough as it is.

 

[BaseballJones]

Devers has always had stretches where he's been dismal.

Apr 20-Jun 5, 2018: 41 g, 150 ab, .187/.236/.340/.576
Aug 24-Sep 28, 2019: 29 g, .214/.277/.389/.666
Jul 24-Aug 17, 2020: 21 g, .183/.239/.317/.556
May 10-Jun 11, 2021: 29 g, .248/.289/.513/.803 - 2021 was one of his most consistent seasons, but even then, this stretch of just .289 obp
Aug 3-Sep 17, 2022: 38 g, .196/.271/.311/.582

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Devers has always had stretches where he's been dismal.

Apr 20-Jun 5, 2018: 41 g, 150 ab, .187/.236/.340/.576
Aug 24-Sep 28, 2019: 29 g, .214/.277/.389/.666
Jul 24-Aug 17, 2020: 21 g, .183/.239/.317/.556
May 10-Jun 11, 2021: 29 g, .248/.289/.513/.803 - 2021 was one of his most consistent seasons, but even then, this stretch of just .289 obp
Aug 3-Sep 17, 2022: 38 g, .196/.271/.311/.582

Devers would be fine but he’s expected- at least on offense- to be a consistent anchor in the lineup for the next several years. More Manny than Ortiz (taking defense into consideration). He’s being paid to be THE best player on the team and he’s not at that level even figuring in drop in offensive production 20 years later.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Devers would be fine but he’s expected- at least on offense- to be a consistent anchor in the lineup for the next several years. More Manny than Ortiz (taking defense into consideration). He’s being paid to be THE best player on the team and he’s not at that level even figuring in drop in offensive production 20 years later.

His offensive production is the same as it always has been. Giving a guy more money doesn’t make him a better player.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

His offensive production is the same as it always has been. Giving a guy more money doesn’t make him a better player.

Remind my crew of that...... but yeah, of course. My issue (and I love Raffy) is that he's being paid to be a better player, and I'm just focused on offense here. He's good, he's just not $30M good. I don't think it was a mistake either given the situation and having a very good hitter of his caliber in the lineup for the next core is important. If Casas can be what he's been from May 1st consistently, you've got your two big sluggers that can crank 30HR's each for the next 5-6 year stretch. If Devers was performing at what I think a $30M per season slugger should be performing at he'd at least be a consistent .900+ OPS guy. It'd be nice to have a Justin Turner '23 RHH type in that "core" of the lineup- hitters 3, 4, 5 with two great OBP, low K types in front of them.

 

[brandonchristensen]

You scaret me. Boggs 65 YO in Omaha, NE.

Very much alive.

 

[mikcou]

Remind my crew of that...... but yeah, of course. My issue (and I love Raffy) is that he's being paid to be a better player, and I'm just focused on offense here. He's good, he's just not $30M good. I don't think it was a mistake either given the situation and having a very good hitter of his caliber in the lineup for the next core is important. If Casas can be what he's been from May 1st consistently, you've got your two big sluggers that can crank 30HR's each for the next 5-6 year stretch. If Devers was performing at what I think a $30M per season slugger should be performing at he'd at least be a consistent .900+ OPS guy. It'd be nice to have a Justin Turner '23 RHH type in that "core" of the lineup- hitters 3, 4, 5 with two great OBP, low K types in front of them.

I think its worth pointing out that Devers is 17th in among MLB qualified hitters in OPS; we are in a very different hitting environment that 10, 15 years ago. There are only 7 qualified hitters right now with a 900+ OPS (Ohtani, Betts, Freeman, Acuna, Olson, Diaz, Harper) and only 5 more (Bellinger, Tucker, Robert, Soto, Carrol) above 875. Most of the guys either have a 25M+ a year deal (Betts, Freeman, Olson, Harper) or will very shortly (Ohtani, Tucker, Soto) or are very young. Given a lot of those guys signed their deals years ago, a number of them would definitely get more in the current environment. You have to pay up for guys who consistently produce at this level, develop them, or go without.

It would be great if Devers became a top 5ish hitter, but that doesnt seem like it should be the standard for whether someone is worth an elite contract because that's not really reflective of reality or the market at this point.

 

[Fishy1]

I think its worth pointing out that Devers is 17th in among MLB qualified hitters in OPS; we are in a very different hitting environment that 10, 15 years ago. There are only 7 qualified hitters right now with a 900+ OPS (Ohtani, Betts, Freeman, Acuna, Olson, Diaz, Harper) and only 5 more (Bellinger, Tucker, Robert, Soto, Carrol) above 875. Most of the guys either have a 25M+ a year deal (Betts, Freeman, Olson, Harper) or will very shortly (Ohtani, Tucker, Soto) or are very young. Given a lot of those guys signed their deals years ago, a number of them would definitely get more in the current environment. You have to pay up for guys who consistently produce at this level, develop them, or go without.

It would be great if Devers became a top 5ish hitter, but that doesnt seem like it should be the standard for whether someone is worth an elite contract because that's not really reflective of reality or the market at this point.

This is all fair, I just feel like the Sox locked in Devers to play third base, and his defense makes him not really worth it, especially if he continues to play as he has. Maybe I shouldn't complain about the Sox spending money, but he's going to be a very expensive DH pretty soon.

My feeling is still that the Red Sox locked him in because they were feeling pressure after letting X and Mookie go, though I know @nighthob and others have made the argument that he anchors the lineup while the cheap, cost-controlled guys come up through the system. I get that... I just wish we'd done it for a guy who was transcendent rather than merely good. Maybe that's just hindsight talking. I also think Devers has had some bad luck on balls in play this year and could still find more upside as a hitter.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Very much alive.

Yes. I've seen him on TV recently.

 

[Al Zarilla]

The last guy to mentor Raffy should be Boggs. Boggs would have Raffy eating fried chicken before every game. Raffy is heavy enough as it is.

I thought Boggs ate all different kinds of chicken in his daily penchant for chicken eating. The reason I said Boggs might be a good mentor for Raffy is that he went from a poor minor league fielder to a very good one in the majors. Maybe it was Boggs just deciding that fielding was very important too. Unfortunately, Raffy probably thinks fielding is important too but he just doesn't have the skills.

 

[8slim]

Couple thoughts on Boggs and Devers...

Boggs came up over 40 years ago. Hell, I remember when he replaced Carney Lansford, who I loved. I don't have any vivid memories of his early fielding days, but is it possible he wasn't nearly as bad as the legend has been told? Back then it could have taken all of one Gammons blurb about a scout talking down his fielding to make that the prevalent narrative. Not to discount Boggs himself talking about how hard he worked on his D, I just wonder what the reality of him being bad really was.

Boggs was a surprisingly good athlete. IIRC, he had one of the best clocked times of running from home to first. He may have been a better pure athlete than Devers is now, which obviously would dramatically help his fielding improvement.

Anyway, I'll use any excuse to talk about 80s Sox players. Carry on.

 

[jon abbey]

Not sure where the Boggs perception comes from, but he had a positive dWAR 16 of his 18 big league seasons, including the first eight of his career. Devers is in his seventh season and has yet to have a positive dWAR (he was at an even 0 one season).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/deverra01.shtml

 

[Al Zarilla]

There was kind of a clear cut difference for Boggs in terms of error rate in his minor league career vs. majors. Crappy infields in the minors (rocks and broken glass for the minor league fields?). But there was a definite perception that he made a definite improvement at the major league level.

 

[Auger34]

Not everyone watches one of the great shows of our generation (their loss):

https://www.slashfilm.com/1244525/origin-its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-wade-boggs-episode/

View: https://youtu.be/C5bI1UPu2MI?si=SnH7zAuUskN-6-nU

Was just about to post something similar to this.

Everyone should try to watch this episode (even non-Sunny fans)

 

[Rovin Romine]

Not sure where the Boggs perception comes from, but he had a positive dWAR 16 of his 18 big league seasons, including the first eight of his career. Devers is in his seventh season and has yet to have a positive dWAR (he was at an even 0 one season).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/deverra01.shtml

There was no dWAR in 1983 when, in his second season, he took over 3B from Carney Lansford, and led all AL thirdbasemen with 27 errors.

It's probably as simple as that mixed with Boston sportswriters.

 

[nvalvo]

I couldn't agree more.....but what's his motivation to do so? He's got his ring, contract and cash.

I doubt he likes his defensive play any more than we do.

 

[mauidano]

I couldn't agree more.....but what's his motivation to do so? He's got his ring, contract and cash.

Raffy lives, eats and breathes baseball. You obviously have never met professional baseball players. I guarantee you no one is more frustrated than Raffy. At this point, he is more motivated than ever. He’ll get it figured out.

 

[nighthob]

My feeling is still that the Red Sox locked him in because they were feeling pressure after letting X and Mookie go, though I know @nighthob and others have made the argument that he anchors the lineup while the cheap, cost-controlled guys come up through the system. I get that... I just wish we'd done it for a guy who was transcendent rather than merely good. Maybe that's just hindsight talking. I also think Devers has had some bad luck on balls in play this year and could still find more upside as a hitter.

That's not really my argument and I have some quibbles with yours. One, when Boston signed Raffy to that extension he was an OPS+ 141 hitter whose OPS+ numbers (outside of weird covid year) were 132, 134, and 141. I'd argue that at the time he signed the extension there was every reason to believe that he'd continue growing into an elite hitter in his prime years. Two, while it would be nice if Raffy was a five tool superstar, there are almost none of those guys around. Boston had a guy that in his last three full seasons (again, fuck weird covid year) had produced 15.8 oWAR. An elite hitter was exactly what he was. But, as you grant and the .282 BABIP number demonstrates he's had some bad luck on balls in play this year.

My argument actually is that so long as your minor league system is producing a pipeline of averagish players you can afford contracts like Raffy's. Also, I doubt that Boston "felt pressure after letting X go". I've said this in other threads, look at the contract termination age of the layers they sign. Story is signed through age 34 with an option on his age 35 season (assuming he's any good). Raffy age 35. I guarantee you that if X had been willing to sign a six year deal he'd still be in Boston. But Boston isn't going to play that game that other teams do of signing players through their age 40-42 seasons just to get a lower AAV number. So get used to this going forward, they'll sign guys to long term deals so long as they end during the player's productive years because they don't want to pay for past production.

 

[Fishy1]

That's not really my argument and I have some quibbles with yours. One, when Boston signed Raffy to that extension he was an OPS+ 141 hitter whose OPS+ numbers (outside of weird covid year) were 132, 134, and 141. I'd argue that at the time he signed the extension there was every reason to believe that he'd continue growing into an elite hitter in his prime years. Two, while it would be nice if Raffy was a five tool superstar, there are almost none of those guys around. Boston had a guy that in his last three full seasons (again, fuck weird covid year) had produced 15.8 oWAR. An elite hitter was exactly what he was. But, as you grant and the .282 BABIP number demonstrates he's had some bad luck on balls in play this year.

My argument actually is that so long as your minor league system is producing a pipeline of averagish players you can afford contracts like Raffy's. Also, I doubt that Boston "felt pressure after letting X go". I've said this in other threads, look at the contract termination age of the layers they sign. Story is signed through age 34 with an option on his age 35 season (assuming he's any good). Raffy age 35. I guarantee you that if X had been willing to sign a six year deal he'd still be in Boston. But Boston isn't going to play that game that other teams do of signing players through their age 40-42 seasons just to get a lower AAV number. So get used to this going forward, they'll sign guys to long term deals so long as they end during the player's productive years because they don't want to pay for past production.

The bolded all makes sense to me, and it's not news to me, either. I'm aware of that strategy and think it makes a lot of sense. You've also noted some flaws in my argument re: Mookie that I appreciate. Mookie is signed a hell of a lot longer and later into his career than Devers is, that's very true.

As for him continuing to grow - I just don't know. It's totally possible, don't get me wrong. But I don't think we have every reason to believe he'll get better. And he's currently a drag on the defense. He's made a mind-numbing number of gaffes and errors out there and it's part of the package. The eventuality that he'll need to move to DH or 1B is disappointing, I think, but I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary.

And that's okay, it happens. He'll still be great to anchor the lineup, hopefully into his middle 30's, it's just they'll be paying an insane premium for that privilege, and I'm worried that there's an opportunity cost and a risk. After all, the risk isn't just that he gets injured and can't pay anymore, there's also the risk that you can't afford other guys who are better and who would push you over the top.

Anyway, you may also be right and it won't much matter if at least a few of Teel, Monegro, Anthony, Mayer, Bleis, Bonaci, etc. hit.

 

[iddoc]

There was no dWAR in 1983 when, in his second season, he took over 3B from Carney Lansford, and led all AL thirdbasemen with 27 errors.

It's probably as simple as that mixed with Boston sportswriters.

I remember 1982/1983 and his defense was widely panned, in large part because of the errors, but he looked rather awkward at 3B. The improvement over the next few years was notable, both qualitatively and quantitatively, in terms of errors at least. How reliable is more advanced defensive data from the 1980s?

Devers makes quite a few athletically impressive plays, so given his relative youth, there is still some cause for optimism. Many of his miscues are on throws; perhaps he would be a plus defensive 1B. Not that I’m advocating a move; they need to work on defense with both Devers and Casas in the offseason. Casas is too young to relegate to DH just yet, and they shouldn’t trade him in the absence of a stunning offer.

 

[BravesField]

Raffy lives, eats and breathes baseball. You obviously have never met professional baseball players. I guarantee you no one is more frustrated than Raffy. At this point, he is more motivated than ever. He’ll get it figured out.

You're right...Never met on, never even knew one. And I agree they are a proud bunch and care about their profession as anyone else would.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the motivation part of my comment. But let me rephrase if I may.....

Raffy has been the worst fielding 3B for 7 years now. He is 6'0 and about 235-240 pounds. That's a lot of weight for someone 6'0 and is an athlete. I think one of the problems with Raffy and his defensive shortcomings is weight related. If he could drop weight, perhaps he'd be more mobile/agile. Now he has weighed this much since he came up in 2018. You hear of athletes bulking up, adding muscle, how about a diet?

I don't think you are right though in saying Raffy will figure it out. It's been 7 years now. How much more time will he need.?

 

[nighthob]

The bolded all makes sense to me, and it's not news to me, either. I'm aware of that strategy and think it makes a lot of sense. You've also noted some flaws in my argument re: Mookie that I appreciate. Mookie is signed a hell of a lot longer and later into his career than Devers is, that's very true.

As for him continuing to grow - I just don't know. It's totally possible, don't get me wrong. But I don't think we have every reason to believe he'll get better. And he's currently a drag on the defense. He's made a mind-numbing number of gaffes and errors out there and it's part of the package. The eventuality that he'll need to move to DH or 1B is disappointing, I think, but I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary.

I meant as a hitter. He's clearly going to be a DH eventually, I just don't fear paying a 6 oWAR player that sort of money

 

[AB in DC]

That's not really my argument and I have some quibbles with yours. One, when Boston signed Raffy to that extension he was an OPS+ 141 hitter whose OPS+ numbers (outside of weird covid year) were 132, 134, and 141. I'd argue that at the time he signed the extension there was every reason to believe that he'd continue growing into an elite hitter in his prime years. Two, while it would be nice if Raffy was a five tool superstar, there are almost none of those guys around. Boston had a guy that in his last three full seasons (again, fuck weird covid year) had produced 15.8 oWAR. An elite hitter was exactly what he was. But, as you grant and the .282 BABIP number demonstrates he's had some bad luck on balls in play this year.

Yeah, I was looking at his Fangraphs page earlier, and while his wRC+ numbers are down a bit (132, 132, 140, down to 122 this year), his xwOBA this year is actually the second highest in his career (.379, only behind 2021's .394). That seems to support the "bad luck" hypothesis.

 

[simplicio]

You're right...Never met on, never even knew one. And I agree they are a proud bunch and care about their profession as anyone else would.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the motivation part of my comment. But let me rephrase if I may.....

Raffy has been the worst fielding 3B for 7 years now. He is 6'0 and about 235-240 pounds. That's a lot of weight for someone 6'0 and is an athlete. I think one of the problems with Raffy and his defensive shortcomings is weight related. If he could drop weight, perhaps he'd be more mobile/agile. Now he has weighed this much since he came up in 2018. You hear of athletes bulking up, adding muscle, how about a diet?

I don't think you are right though in saying Raffy will figure it out. It's been 7 years now. How much more time will he need.?

Are his defensive problems range related? I've always thought he had pretty good range and was more prone to making dumb fielding/throwing mistakes?

 

[grimshaw]

Are his defensive problems range related? I've always thought he had pretty good range and was more prone to making dumb fielding/throwing mistakes?

For his career he is at 5.1 range runs above average (1.9 this season which is 4th best among 3b), and -19.3 error runs below average (-1.5 this season which is 4th worst among 3b).

It's the major league worst 17 errors basically - half of them throwing which can be double owwies.

 

[johnlos]

Yes, but washing the chicken down with beer while on a transcontinental flight

I actually read that as Mango (Samuel) Adams at first (yes it does exist) and was a bit perplexed since that doesn’t seem very Boggsesque

 

[WrenHorn]

I’ve said it time and time again but I think it’s really unfortunate that Bloom was effectively forced to give Devers, a long term DH, that contract, in fact I think its fairly obvious he didn’t intend to give him that contract with the Yoshida deal, a clear long term DH. If he was going to give that contract to any of the players he jettisoned I suspect he’d have preferred Mookie, but it’s a shame this market essentially forced him into the deal.

 

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

[

You're right...Never met on, never even knew one. And I agree they are a proud bunch and care about their profession as anyone else would.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the motivation part of my comment. But let me rephrase if I may.....

Raffy has been the worst fielding 3B for 7 years now. He is 6'0 and about 235-240 pounds. That's a lot of weight for someone 6'0 and is an athlete. I think one of the problems with Raffy and his defensive shortcomings is weight related. If he could drop weight, perhaps he'd be more mobile/agile. Now he has weighed this much since he came up in 2018. You hear of athletes bulking up, adding muscle, how about a diet?

I don't think you are right though in saying Raffy will figure it out. It's been 7 years now. How much more time will he need.?

I've had very limited personal exposure to pro athletes, but from what I've seen they are VERY competitive people. A couple of cases in point: I went to the Red Sox fantasy camp a few years ago, and former major leaguers served as managers and coaches for the camp teams. As you can probably imagine there was a wide range of talent and fitness levels amongst the campers. There were some relatively young guys who could still play well and there were some older guys who were just happy to DH and then just sit on the bench and catch some rays. In my first camp game my team had a 10-0 lead after 3 innings, but then we changed pitchers, and the other team began catching up, but we still had the lead going into the last inning. Our manager told one last guy he was pitching the last inning, and this guy immediately started talking mega trash, to the point where he was getting funny looks on our bench. Needless to say, this guy couldn't throw a strike or even get anyone out and we ended up losing. As soon as this guy got back to the dugout our manager pulled him aside and gave him a thorough ass chewing. Never mind that we actually paid to be there, he was really PISSED at the guy. A few days later we were on the other end of a rally. We were losing big but started to rally. One of the camp rules was very a liberal use of pinch runners. Anyone could be run for at any time, and you could run for the batter once contact was made. The umpire would draw a line in the stand and the runner would have to stand behind it and he could run to first once contact was made. Now this was toward the end of the week and lots of guys were coming up somewhat lame, and only the guys who were really in shape could still run fast. We had about four guys like that, and we were doing all the running, and we scored the winning run in the bottom of the last inning. In the clubhouse afterwards I went to see one of my teammates. The Pro's lockers were interspersed with ours, and the losing manager's locker from that game was close to my buddies. My buddy wasn't there, but the pro was. He was really PISSED too. He actually asked me "How many f*****n pinch runners do you guys have. You only had your fastest guys running those last few innings". Now mind you the camp itself was a glorified beer league, so I asked my manager, who was a really good guy, if the pro's had a bet or some kind of pool concerning the league. He told me no, that's just the way they are, very competitive by nature.

 

[geoflin]

Agree 100% with the above post. I am good friends with a former Red Sox pitcher, we play golf together regularly. He is EXTREMELY competitive, throws clubs when he hits a bad shot, celebrates when he makes a putt, etc. He still lives and dies with the Red Sox and, since he played a number of years ago, doesn't understand or agree with the newer analytical thinking particularly as it relates to number of pitches, times through the order, etc. He still believes in ignoring pitch count, having relief pitchers pitch multiple days in a row without days off, etc. He gets very angry when Cora rests anybody, believing that players should be able to play every day.
So in relation to this thread and Devers, yes, I believe that he wants very much to be a better defensive player and will work hard to try to become one. Whether his physical skills will allow that is another question. But my belief is that many of the throwing errors are due to mechanical issues which can be corrected.