Pick #38- Jordan Walsh

Jimbodandy

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I think that he has all of the mechanics and features to be a good 3&D wing in the league soon. His shot is immature still, but his form looks fine. He has the athleticism and uses his length. His D concepts will need some coaching up too. All of this is normal for his age. I see why Brad liked him. He's not ready now, but he will be.
 

benhogan

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Made #5 on Ricky O'Donnell's (SB Nation's basketball editor) list of top rookies at Summer League
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2023/7/17/23792476/nba-rookie-summer-league-rankings-las-vegas-2023-victor-wembanyama
this sub-article on Jordan added some nice details on the lack of spacing at Arkansas

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2023/07/jordan-walsh-celtics-rookie-summer-league-arkansas-stats


“The Razorbacks, for all their top-tier talent, lacked floor spacing. Everyone got exposed as a result, though Walsh’s role as a non-shooter became actively harmful to whatever spacing they were trying to create. He would be absent during big moments and only played about 24 minutes a game.
Yet the Razorbacks were clearly better with Walsh on the floor. Analytically, his minutes rate out as some of the most positive on the team. He makes winning plays, creates extra possession, is a legitimate connective passer, and knows how to combat some of his limitations.”
Arkansas ranked below the 10th percentile in floor spacing last season, per Shot Quality. That was the lowest from any team of any collegiate player drafted. The Razorbacks ranked 358 out of 363 in percentage of points from 3-pointers last season, via KenPom.

With such poor floor spacing, it made it especially challenging for Walsh to find a rhythm on his jumper. He was 24-of-89 (27.0 percent) on jump shots at Arkansas, per Synergy.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Smooth stroke, at least when he's open. NBA D has a way of speeding that up, so we'll see. Same with his handle attacking closeouts. But the aggression is great. Extremely rangy, just covers a lot of ground, smooth looking athlete. He's all limbs right now and takes a lot of layups at odd angles to avoid contact BUT his build leaves a ton of room to bulk up.

His floor is probably a Brissett/Stevens type which is certainly fine for the draft capital but there is real potential here. The type of guy you are just dying to see after the game has slowed down for him.
 

nighthob

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You’re hoping that he fulfills his destiny as Marcus v2.0. The release is slow, but luckily in Boston he’ll be shooting as the other guy on the floor, which always helps. He’s already mastered that Marcus trick of looking off the ball handler so that they dribble too close and end up seeing the ball poked away. He has a bright future as a 3&D guy.
 

Auger34

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You’re hoping that he fulfills his destiny as Marcus v2.0. The release is slow, but luckily in Boston he’ll be shooting as the other guy on the floor, which always helps. He’s already mastered that Marcus trick of looking off the ball handler so that they dribble too close and end up seeing the ball poked away. He has a bright future as a 3&D guy.
I guess this is just because Marcus played in Boston but I’m struggling to understand how Walsh and Smart are similar at all. I guess because they can both defend and not shoot that well?
Even so, there are tons of examples of players who are more similar to size/wingspan to Walsh who had similar profiles than Marcus smart

Marcus played PG in college and is about 3 inches shorter than Walsh. Walsh wasn’t close to a PG in college…
 

nighthob

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I guess this is just because Marcus played in Boston but I’m struggling to understand how Walsh and Smart are similar at all. I guess because they can both defend and not shoot that well?
Even so, there are tons of examples of players who are more similar to size/wingspan to Walsh who had similar profiles than Marcus smart

Marcus played PG in college and is about 3 inches shorter than Walsh. Walsh wasn’t close to a PG in college…
In the NBA Smart was a defensive oriented combo guard that could guard all five spots on the floor with his Maximum Effort playing style. He was also the defensive coordinator on the floor who excelled at being able to do that while telling his teammates where to go. And ultimately that’s where you’re hoping that Walsh gets to, a defensive oriented swingman that guard all five spots with a Maximum Effort style. For the life of me I’ve never understood the hate that Marcus got around here for sweating and bleeding Celtics Green.
 

Auger34

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In the NBA Smart was a defensive oriented combo guard that could guard all five spots on the floor with his Maximum Effort playing style. He was also the defensive coordinator on the floor who excelled at being able to do that while telling his teammates where to go. And ultimately that’s where you’re hoping that Walsh gets to, a defensive oriented swingman that guard all five spots with a Maximum Effort style. For the life of me I’ve never understood the hate that Marcus got around here for sweating and bleeding Celtics Green.
I was a fan of Marcus Smart. Check my posts….

I just don’t really see a similarity with Walsh at all. Even after this post
 

Eddie Jurak

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I was a fan of Marcus Smart. Check my posts….

I just don’t really see a similarity with Walsh at all. Even after this post
Agreed. Maybe the similarity would be to someone like Matisse Thybulle? With some reason to hope for more offensive skills.
 

Euclis20

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Agreed. Maybe the similarity would be to someone like Matisse Thybulle? With some reason to hope for more offensive skills.
Also I know we're talking about playing styles and what Walsh could be some day, but it's worth noting that Smart came out of the gate playin 27 mpg (with 38 starts) for a playoff team as a 20 year old rookie. Walsh is as raw as they come, I don't think anyone has ever said that about Smart.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Also I know we're talking about playing styles and what Walsh could be some day, but it's worth noting that Smart came out of the gate playin 27 mpg (with 38 starts) for a playoff team as a 20 year old rookie. Walsh is as raw as they come, I don't think anyone has ever said that about Smart.
Smart did play 2 years of college instead of just one, but, yes. He was NBA playable from day one, Walsh is a project (though a promising one).
 

joe dokes

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It's just one game, but it seems to me that filling up the box score like that is a sign of strong effort. A scorer will score, a defender will defend, etc. But doing some of everything requires a bit more oomph.
 

moondog80

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Wow, I absolutely hate this idea.
Why? Is watching people shoot free throws exciting? I can see an argument that it creates tension, but what if they didn’t do it this way in the last 2 minutes or whatever?

Put another way, if the standard was already one-shot free throws, would a movement emerge to switch to one shot per point?
 

luckiestman

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Why? Is watching people shoot free throws exciting? I can see an argument that it creates tension, but what if they didn’t do it this way in the last 2 minutes or whatever?

Put another way, if the standard was already one-shot free throws, would a movement emerge to switch to one shot per point?
what if fouled shooting a three you have to shoot it from the spot you were fouled. 1 shot uncontested. Let’s get wild
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Jed Zeppelin

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They can cut several minutes if they must by getting rid of pointless replays and by being less whistle-happy. Ultimately I don't really think of game speed as an issue for the NBA though and would be shocked if this ever saw the light of day. I think expediting replay as the NFL has done after several years of practice is where you can shave off time without fundamentally changing the game.
 

moondog80

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They can cut several minutes if they must by getting rid of pointless replays and by being less whistle-happy. Ultimately I don't really think of game speed as an issue for the NBA though and would be shocked if this ever saw the light of day. I think expediting replay as the NFL has done after several years of practice is where you can shave off time without fundamentally changing the game.
I guess I don’t see the proposal as fundamentally changing the game. Free throw shooting, as a skill, would be just as important as it was before. These seems like far less of a
fundamental change than say, making the bases a little bigger.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I guess I don’t see the proposal as fundamentally changing the game. Free throw shooting, as a skill, would be just as important as it was before. These seems like far less of a
fundamental change than say, making the bases a little bigger.
One ft equaling a different number points feels pretty fundamental. It also further incentivizes foul-drawing shenanigans outside the 3pt line. Having it count for either 1 2 or 3 points depending on the situations is also just weird.

And I guess this is more of just a vibe thing but if it’s the endgame and a team has to foul it should be two shots.

I don’t think I have ever heard anybody seriously complain that NBA games are too long. The last two minutes maybe but that is more of an aesthetic complaint than a time-based one. I’d increase the number of fouls required to put a team in the bonus before doing anything like this.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Honestly, I would bring back the "3 to make 2" as a counter to "hack a" strategy. Shaq was a career ~50% shooter. 3 to make 2 turns him into a 75% on the spot.
 

ZMart100

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I like the idea of watching fewer free throws. They are boring. I don't see how it would change strategy.

Edit: Except reduce the intentional miss.
 

bakahump

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Why not make commercials during the FTs instead of the "Well its been enough time how about a commercial" (what is it? Halfway through each qtr?)
Probably not what we the fans want (pick your poison FT or Commercial)....but as a money making enterprise its pretty easy to see.

You come back from commercial and the team that had the ball has 2 points and you know "oh good Zinger made both". You Come back and they have one more point and "Jaylen missed one".

A Comment from the PbP guys pretty much sums up the action. "JT missed the second but Porzingas got the offensive rebound and putback to give the celtics 3 points during that last break in the action."

Obviously for late game FTs or FTs deemed high importance, An1s etc etc you could stay. But for most just run a 15-30 second commercial.
 

SteveF

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Interestingly, players historically shoot worse on their first free throw than the second on average as you might suspect. The data I saw was 73% vs 78%, so 1 point less every 20 free throws.
 

Imbricus

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Am I the only one wondering how you get to 24 points on 5-10 FG, 2-5 3PT, 6-8 FT with one free throw counting as 2 points?

Disregarding the fact that the 3 pointers are usually included in the field goal totals, and breaking them out separately: 10 points FG, 6 points, 3PT, 5 points single free throws, 2 points for the one that counted for two, equals ... 23 points? Can those Mainers do math? (Full disclosure: I'm from Maine)
 

NomarsFool

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I don’t care that much about it , but usually fast forward through free throws. As others me mentioned, they are boring. Unless it’s the end of a game, they don’t make the highlight game summaries.
 

Spelunker

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Am I the only one wondering how you get to 24 points on 5-10 FG, 2-5 3PT, 6-8 FT with one free throw counting as 2 points?

Disregarding the fact that the 3 pointers are usually included in the field goal totals, and breaking them out separately: 10 points FG, 6 points, 3PT, 5 points single free throws, 2 points for the one that counted for two, equals ... 23 points? Can those Mainers do math? (Full disclosure: I'm from Maine)
I'm not sure how they're denotingb this experiment it in the box score, but did he go up the line 8 times, meaning 12 points on free throws?

I assume that by "one free throw counting as two points" they mean 'each', not "only one of".
 
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Imbricus

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I assume that by "one free throw counting as two points" they mean 'each', not "only one of".
Ah, you must be right. That's it. I guess I'd edit that to "with EACH free throw counting ..." Seems a bit weird to have all of them count for two points. What if it's an "and one" where the player has already made the basket? Then it's a four-point play? Or a five-point play if he made a three?
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'd be willing to split this difference on the free throw thing this way - on a 2 shot foul, the first FT is worth 2 points. But, if missed, the shooter gets to take the second for one point. On a 3 shot foul, first shot is for 3, second (if the first is missed) is for 2, third (if first 2 are missed) is for 1. That will redice, significantly, the number of FTs attempted without eliminating all of the missed FT drama.
 

mcpickl

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I like the less free throws, but I wouldn't go quite as hard as they're going.

I'd have it that if the free throw shooter hits the first shot, he gets two points and that's it. If he misses, he gets the second free throw for one point.
For three point fouls, you get two shots. Hit both shots you get three points, hit either one of two you get two points.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Ah, you must be right. That's it. I guess I'd edit that to "with EACH free throw counting ..." Seems a bit weird to have all of them count for two points. What if it's an "and one" where the player has already made the basket? Then it's a four-point play? Or a five-point play if he made a three?
For the first 46 minutes of the game, it's one FT for as many points that could be earned - whether it be 1 point, 2 points, or 3 points. For the last 2 minutes, it's standard rules. https://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/g-league-rules-242/

I think if this ever went to the NBA, it would encourage intentional fouling.

BTW, in case you were still wondering, the line "5-10 FG, 2-5 3PT, 6-8 FT" = 24 points in this way: 3 two-point FGs = 6; 2 three-point FGs = 6 (as you note, the three-point FGs are included in the overall line) and (I presume) 6 FTs = 12 points.

If we wanted the box score to be specifically clear (which we'd usually want), the FTs should be broken out into 1 point FTs, 2 point FTs, and 3 point FTs.
 

Cellar-Door

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For the first 46 minutes of the game, it's one FT for as many points that could be earned - whether it be 1 point, 2 points, or 3 points. For the last 2 minutes, it's standard rules. https://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/g-league-rules-242/

I think if this ever went to the NBA, it would encourage intentional fouling.

BTW, in case you were still wondering, the line "5-10 FG, 2-5 3PT, 6-8 FT" = 24 points in this way: 3 two-point FGs = 6; 2 three-point FGs = 6 (as you note, the three-point FGs are included in the overall line) and (I presume) 6 FTs = 12 points.

If we wanted the box score to be specifically clear (which we'd usually want), the FTs should be broken out into 1 point FTs, 2 point FTs, and 3 point FTs.
G-League Box scores have a column for free throw points
https://statsdmz.nba.com/pdfs/20231119/20231119_LINMNE.pdf

I think the confusion was Tomek tweeting "with one FT equaling 2 points" instead of the clearer "with EACH FT counting as 2 pts"
 

oumbi

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Am I the only one wondering how you get to 24 points on 5-10 FG, 2-5 3PT, 6-8 FT with one free throw counting as 2 points?

Disregarding the fact that the 3 pointers are usually included in the field goal totals, and breaking them out separately: 10 points FG, 6 points, 3PT, 5 points single free throws, 2 points for the one that counted for two, equals ... 23 points? Can those Mainers do math? (Full disclosure: I'm from Maine)
Perhaps they are including the 3 point shots as part of the field goals?

3 field goals x 2 points each = 6 points
2 three pointers x 3 points each = 6 points
6 FT x 2 points = 12 points