Pick #38- Jordan Walsh

NomarsFool

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He looks like he has Rob Williams' lower body. Maybe his upper body will grow a little and he'll do a Giannis? :)
 

Granite Sox

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Second team wing to guard opponent’s second team scorer. Seems like a specific enough role that he can sink his teeth into.

His arms are crazy long. I can understand why PBOBS said he swallows people up laterally on defense. Poor man’s Tony Allen?
 

nighthob

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Semi Ojeleye was Parade Magazine’s National Player of the Year in high school and tested freakishly at the combine.

https://parade.com/15098/brianmclaughlin/semi-ojeleye-is-parades-2012-13-boys-basketball-player-of-the-year/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Semi-Ojeleye-7164/
I keep harping on this, it does not matter what a player’s vertical is if you never see it in games. Semi never left his feet. Jordan Walsh is quick, he’s fast, and he’s fucking long. His athletic tests were pretty similar to Andre Jackson’s. There’s no lack there. And it shows in his game tape.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, I read he had a good combine. So he had good pedigree coming out of high school, was initially expected to go first round, then slipped after an unimpressive freshman season. Which could have been due to age or maybe he was playing in the wrong system for his skillset? I think there's a lot to like here -- with the understanding that we're a long way from him being a contributor. Plus, he's a young 19. Looking forward to Summer League!
He was playing on a team with two heralded freshman combo guards and an established scorer. He was lost in the mix as the fourth option.
 

Cellar-Door

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I keep harping on this, it does not matter what a player’s vertical is if you never see it in games. Semi never left his feet. Jordan Walsh is quick, he’s fast, and he’s fucking long. His athletic tests were pretty similar to Andre Jackson’s. There’s no lack there. And it shows in his game tape.
I also like that his no-step vert is good. I think max vert is basically useless, what does it matter on, mostly dunks? No Step vert tells me whether you can go up for blocks and rebounds, second jumps, etc.
 

pjheff

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I keep harping on this, it does not matter what a player’s vertical is if you never see it in games. Semi never left his feet. Jordan Walsh is quick, he’s fast, and he’s fucking long. His athletic tests were pretty similar to Andre Jackson’s. There’s no lack there. And it shows in his game tape.
As I posted earlier, Walsh was one of the guys that I had been following for the #35 pick. I like the selection and hope that his athletic tools can be realized as basketball skills on an NBA court. But to say that he has a pedigree and an athleticism unlike Semi Ojeleye is just inaccurate.
 

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For combine, Walsh had significant edges in reach and wingspan, Jackson had a good edge in max vert, but Walsh had a clear edge in standing vert.

Walsh's vert scores are interesting/weird. His max vert was 36in, not that great tied for 24th (Jackson was at 39.5 good for 5th best), however, his standing vert was 33in, tied for 6th best (Jackson was 30.5 tied for 23rd). To me that indicates he's explosive but has poor vertical technique on the max vertical.

Overall though I'd have taken Walsh, I think he has more upside in the areas that you care about, and I don't really think Jackson is significantly more NBA ready, give me the younger guy with the better NBA body. Neither is a guy you're likely going to want handling the ball, so Jackson's advantages there matter less to me.
You're right. If Walsh tested 33in on standing, he's pretty fucking explosive and probably just doesn't work on his dunk reels very much. If anything that makes me appreciate him more.
 

Cellar-Door

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View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1672329593108197378


Brad on Walsh...
basically what you'd expect, very young, not expecting immediate impact. Thinks he has special ability with lateral movement and huge wingspan to be disruptive on D. Ahead on D. On offense they worked him out twice, see real improvement in the shot, like his touch, felt he was hesitant in college, see him as a potential plus shooter with the ability to drive closeouts.
 

nighthob

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I also like that his no-step vert is good. I think max vert is basically useless, what does it matter on, mostly dunks? No Step vert tells me whether you can go up for blocks and rebounds, second jumps, etc.
Yeah, max vert just means that you get spectacular dunks in transition, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but I think the no-step is definitely more important because that’s what you see in games. And you see it in his with the way he grabs boards and disrupts other rebounders.
 

lovegtm

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His lateral quickness on defense in some of his clips is ridiculous. Basically teleporting.
 

Burkharts Uppercut

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It looks like he has the best standing reach of any non-big in the draft and better than Draymond or Igoudala's combine measurements.
 

Imbricus

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I'm kind of curious now what Brad's strategy was going into draft night, considering they acquired pick #25 rather late. Was it to pick at #25 only if a certain player or two became available? If not, start trading down into the #35 range, which is the slot they had most heavily scouted for, and see what they could get for future picks in exchange for #25? Or?
 

DavidTai

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I'm kind of curious now what Brad's strategy was going into draft night, considering they acquired pick #25 rather late. Was it to pick at #25 only if a certain player or two became available? If not, start trading down into the #35 range, which is the slot they had most heavily scouted for, and see what they could get for future picks in exchange for #25? Or?
Most reports seem tosuggest he was after OMP, and then once he was gone, they went back, then got more offers, went for it, and kept going.
 

nighthob

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I'm kind of curious now what Brad's strategy was going into draft night, considering they acquired pick #25 rather late. Was it to pick at #25 only if a certain player or two became available? If not, start trading down into the #35 range, which is the slot they had most heavily scouted for, and see what they could get for future picks in exchange for #25? Or?
Well Boston had been strongly linked with Prosper and were (like everyone else in the late 1st) evaluating Whitehead's medicals. But once they came off the board at 22 and 24 pivoted to accumulating #2s and looking for an opportunity. Likely enough Walsh was who they were looking at at #35 originally and just pivoted back once their first round targets were gone.
 

Cellar-Door

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Possible they wanted Prosper, but also a good chance that 25 for 35 was just about getting the most value they could and he always planned to trade back into the early 2nd, then he was running mostly off the 35 list and since guys he wanted were on the board he kept adding value until 38 where he got his guy
 

JakeRae

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I'm kind of curious now what Brad's strategy was going into draft night, considering they acquired pick #25 rather late. Was it to pick at #25 only if a certain player or two became available? If not, start trading down into the #35 range, which is the slot they had most heavily scouted for, and see what they could get for future picks in exchange for #25? Or?
This doesn’t feel that complicated. I assume it was less of a plan and more of situational opportunism. 31 and 2 reasonably likely to be front half of the second round picks for 25 is very good value unless you love a player who you could take at 25. It might be that Prosper or Whitehead would’ve met that threshold, but the bottom line is there weren’t any big slides in this draft class so when 25 came around, trading down a bit for value was the right move. When 31 came around, same thing. Sliding back 3 spots to add 39 was an easy call. Trading 39 was probably less about value than not wanting two picks for cap and roster management reasons. Overall, I think we expected to exit this draft with an athletic wing project and did exactly that, plus 4 future seconds.
 

brendan f

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also a good chance that 25 for 35 was just about getting the most value they could and he always planned to trade back into the early 2nd, then he was running mostly off the 35 list and since guys he wanted were on the board he kept adding value until 38 where he got his guy
This is what I took from Brad's presser–that they had a list of a handful of guys they liked and figured a couple would fall. He did say the Celtics were receiving offers for those picks, and since the offers kept coming, they kept trading. Not sure if this is accurate but that's what he said.

If not, start trading down into the #35 range, which is the slot they had most heavily scouted for, and see what they could get for future picks in exchange for #25? Or?
I don't think it had anything to do with scouting. These teams scout everyone diligently. At least some draft experts seemed to think there wasn't much difference in talent between late first and second round prospects this year. Brad likely agreed.
 

StuckOnYouk

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The Jackson vs Walsh debate will be a nice little side thing to watch as Milwaukee felt Andre was the better player and could be a key part of their second unit pretty quickly.

As a UConn fan who watched their games, yes his outside shot sucks. But he’s a great athlete who can guard multiple positions and was also great at bringing the ball up and distributing.

Regardless as a Celtics fan I hope Walsh does great. But was really pulling for Brad to go Andre. The fans would have loved him.
 

brendan f

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The Jackson vs Walsh debate will be a nice little side thing to watch as Milwaukee felt Andre was the better player and could be a key part of their second unit pretty quickly.
I like Walsh better. He's younger and his on-ball defense is special, whereas Jackson is better off-ball (so, overall, less impactful). Jackson seems to me a "master of none" guy. Other than his passing, it's hard to see any true standout skills and his shot is very bad. He's great in transition though. If you wince, you could see him being a sort of point forward, but is he good enough handling the ball for that type of role?

With Walsh, you can see the role very easily as a 3-D. It's just a question of whether he can get there. And yes, Walsh's shot isn't great right now either, but Brad said it was much better in the workouts, and on film, it doesn't look broken. Jackson's does.

That being said, Milwaukee is a great fit for Jackson and I could see him thriving there.
 
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chilidawg

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I like Walsh better. He's younger and his on-ball defense is special, whereas Jackson is better off-ball (so, overall, less impactful). Jackson seems to me a "master of none" guy. Other than his passing, it's hard to see any true standout skills and his shot is very bad. He's great in transition though. If you wince, you could see him being a sort of point forward, but is he good enough handling the ball for that type of role?

With Walsh, you can see the role very easily as a 3-D. It's just a question of whether he can get there. And yes, Walsh's shot isn't great right now either, but Brad said it was much better in the workouts, and on film, it doesn't look broken. Jackson's does.

That being said, Milwaukee is a great fit for Jackson and I could see him thriving there.
Walsh is 19 and has a better looking shot than Jackson at 22, so I'd bet on that upside. Jackson has an elite feel for the game to go with his athleticism, doubtful that Walsh ever develops that well.
 

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Didn’t Walsh do well from the corners in the shooting segment in the combine, tied for 5th best at 68%? Boston has drafted allegedly great college shooters, like Nesmith, and allegedly poor college shooter, like JB. How a 19 year old freshman shot the three ball in 30 college games shouldn’t be a huge factor in drafting. If Walsh puts the work in, he could become a plus shooter from three. He seems to understand, at age 19, what his role will be in the league, as a three and D player.
 

benhogan

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Didn’t Walsh do well from the corners in the shooting segment in the combine, tied for 5th best at 68%? Boston has drafted allegedly great college shooters, like Nesmith, and allegedly poor college shooter, like JB. How a 19 year old freshman shot the three ball in 30 college games shouldn’t be a huge factor in drafting. If Walsh puts the work in, he could become a plus shooter from three. He seems to understand, at age 19, what his role will be in the league, as a three and D player.
AJJ would have been more choice in the 2nd round. I like the idea of successful/experienced/filled-out upperclassmen in the 2nd round. Getting a useful rotation player there is a home run

Walsh & AJJ are both ~70% FT shooters. The hope is they can go from 15" to 22" (Corner3) and eventually become 40% Corner3 snipers (the Grant plan)
 

TripleOT

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AJJ would have been more choice in the 2nd round. I like the idea of successful/experienced/filled-out upperclassmen in the 2nd round. Getting a useful rotation player there is a home run

Walsh & AJJ are both ~70% FT shooters. The hope is they can go from 15" to 22" (Corner3) and eventually become 40% Corner3 snipers (the Grant plan)
I would have been happy with either Walsh or AJJ. I don’t put much into the comparison of their college careers, because Jackson was allowed to carve out a bigger role on his team, while Walsh had to sit back while four or five other players were placed in front of him for things like scoring and playmaking. I give Walsh credit that he glommed onto a needed role and executed well in that role, and that’s something that he certainly has to do if he’s ever going to get on the floor in the next couple of seasons in Boston.

Walsh claims that he will show out now that the “handcuffs are off.” I’m looking forward to seeing him in Summer League. I won’t be surprised if he pops as a scorer, or if he just does the D and 3 thing. I do like his confidence in himself. I get a bit of a Tayshaun Prince vibe from Walsh, who is a bit shorter, but has the arms for days and build of Prince, as well as the ability to play wallpaper one on one defense.
 

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This AJJ love seems geographical me. He's 2 1/2 years older than Walsh & has not improved at shooting at all & seems like he would be a massive liability offensively in the NBA.

Walsh has a non-broken shot & is significantly more likely to become a reasonable floor spacer, & can cover larger wings.

The main edge AJJ has is as a ball handler, but he's not going to be good enough at shooting for running an offense through him to be an efficient proposition.

I'm pretty excited about Walsh... even if there's like a 60% chance he never becomes a legitimate rotation guy
 

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Ajj shot is a tragedy. I guess Evan turner, "you gotta respect a 15% 3pt shooter", is a point forward comp, Career 29%. Or as I said upthread maybe Shawn Marion if he can be better than that, and truly lockdown on d. He'd be fun though
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah one of my concerns with AJJ would be (beyond having more time to improve and not) would be that his advantages over Walsh are mostly on-ball guard skills, and guards who can't shoot in the NBA are going extinct (also TOV concern me) where it is much easier to see Walsh as a 3 now and a slightly undersized big once he adds muscle
 

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I get a bit of a Tayshaun Prince vibe from Walsh, who is a bit shorter, but has the arms for days and build of Prince, as well as the ability to play wallpaper one on one defense.
On the draft videos, he shows himself capable of playing suffocating defense against good guards. If he can do that in the NBA, without fouling, that alone will earn him some minutes.
 

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I wonder if it’s as simple as: Celtics had a shortlist and as long as the length of that list exceeded the number of picks on the table in any trade down, they were going to take the trade.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Txs for posting. For those who want Walsh to work on his jumper, from the article: "[Walsh and his trainer have] been doing two-a-day workouts six times a week since Walsh arrived back from Arkansas, and part of the work includes 250-350 made 3-pointers on a daily basis".
 

benhogan

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I wonder if it’s as simple as: Celtics had a shortlist and as long as the length of that list exceeded the number of picks on the table in any trade down, they were going to take the trade.
yea, in Brad's presser, he pretty much said exactly that
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Jackson vs Walsh debate will be a nice little side thing to watch as Milwaukee felt Andre was the better player and could be a key part of their second unit pretty quickly.
One other little side thing is to see how differently Boston and Denver approaches this draft. The Nuggets did exactly what I felt Boston would do in grabbing several picks and drafting older college players who were available due to their lack of upside in 3-yr college player Julian Strawther and a couple of 5-yr college players in Jalen Pickett and Hunter Tyson.
 

lovegtm

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One other little side thing is to see how differently Boston and Denver approaches this draft. The Nuggets did exactly what I felt Boston would do in grabbing several picks and drafting older college players who were available due to their lack of upside in 3-yr college player Julian Strawther and a couple of 5-yr college players in Jalen Pickett and Hunter Tyson.
Is this because the Nuggets think they're already out of ability to turn salary slots into useful new players, whereas the Celtics think they have one more shot at it, first with Smart and then probably Brogdon?

Denver already has Jokic on the supermax, and the only contract they can break into better roleplayers would be MPJ's.
 

nighthob

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Is this because the Nuggets think they're already out of ability to turn salary slots into useful new players, whereas the Celtics think they have one more shot at it, first with Smart and then probably Brogdon?

Denver already has Jokic on the supermax, and the only contract they can break into better roleplayers would be MPJ's.
I think Denver’s preparing to move on from the middle class contracts now that they have their title. With Jokic, Murray, and MPJ I don’t think that there are going to be a lot of non-minimum contracts on that roster.
 

pjheff

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Is this because the Nuggets think they're already out of ability to turn salary slots into useful new players, whereas the Celtics think they have one more shot at it, first with Smart and then probably Brogdon?
Do you think that Brad intended to take both of those shots this off-season? By that I mean, do you think his plan was to move Brogdon for Porzingis and then turn Smart into Jones plus picks in a subsequent deal?
 

benhogan

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One other little side thing is to see how differently Boston and Denver approaches this draft. The Nuggets did exactly what I felt Boston would do in grabbing several picks and drafting older college players who were available due to their lack of upside in 3-yr college player Julian Strawther and a couple of 5-yr college players in Jalen Pickett and Hunter Tyson.
Hunter Tyson was completely out of left field. A poor man's Hauser.

I also like the idea of Boston getting more mature, physically stronger rookies closer to their prime age rather than filling out your G-League team with 19yr old projects. BUT if Brad felt like they were getting the best defensive WING in college in Walsh I'm fine with that. At this point getting exceptional defensive players is how Brad should fill out the rest of the roster (deep bench). As presently constructed, Boston's bench would feature Brogdon, Horford, Hauser, and Pritchard that's four exceptional 3-pt shooters.

Looking forward to seeing how raw or developed Walsh is in Summer League. His on-the-ball, help, & awareness on D will be worth watching. On Offense, just hoping he can move the ball, set screens, & not be clumsy. Not expecting any grand point totals.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hunter Tyson was completely out of left field. A poor man's Hauser.

I also like the idea of Boston getting more mature, physically stronger rookies closer to their prime age rather than filling out your G-League team with 19yr old projects. BUT if Brad felt like they were getting the best defensive WING in college in Walsh I'm fine with that. At this point getting exceptional defensive players is how Brad should fill out the rest of the roster (deep bench). As presently constructed, Boston's bench would feature Brogdon, Horford, Hauser, and Pritchard that's four exceptional 3-pt shooters.

Looking forward to seeing how raw or developed Walsh is in Summer League. His on-the-ball, help, & awareness on D will be worth watching. On Offense, just hoping he can move the ball, set screens, & not be clumsy. Not expecting any grand point totals.
I like the Walsh pick and have said that if he earned some backend rotation minutes by seasons end it wouldn't surprise me. I was mostly referring to us trading down in Belichick mode with other picks rather than actively looking to find a guy on a 2nd round deal who could improve the team next season as Denver did.
 

lovegtm

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Do you think that Brad intended to take both of those shots this off-season? By that I mean, do you think his plan was to move Brogdon for Porzingis and then turn Smart into Jones plus picks in a subsequent deal?
Yes, but it's a counterfactual, and we probably will never know. Obviously if they move Brogdon soon, it was probably the plan all along, but that may be harder now.
 

Auger34

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I like the Walsh pick and have said that if he earned some backend rotation minutes by seasons end it wouldn't surprise me. I was mostly referring to us trading down in Belichick mode with other picks rather than actively looking to find a guy on a 2nd round deal who could improve the team next season as Denver did.
Agree 100%. I really liked the process but I was definitely surprised that they didn’t end up with someone older and more ready for bench minutes this year. To be clear, I did like the pick and I think Walsh‘s stroke and FT rate portend to better shooting in the future.

Jeremy Woo was on the Lowe Post and he said that it was widely believed that the C’s were targeting Omax Prosper at 25, which was one of the reasons the Mavs traded for the 24th pick to get him. I would bet a good amount of money that he was who the Celtics really wanted but they pivoted after he wasn’t available