Pick #38- Jordan Walsh

nighthob

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Am I the only one wondering how you get to 24 points on 5-10 FG, 2-5 3PT, 6-8 FT with one free throw counting as 2 points?

Disregarding the fact that the 3 pointers are usually included in the field goal totals, and breaking them out separately: 10 points FG, 6 points, 3PT, 5 points single free throws, 2 points for the one that counted for two, equals ... 23 points? Can those Mainers do math? (Full disclosure: I'm from Maine)
Five total FGs, two of them being treys, gives me 12 points. Six free throws another 12 with that one FT= 2pts math.
 

oumbi

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Would love to see Walsh tear up the G-league and become a great sixth man for the Celtics.
 

Kliq

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He has to be better than Lamar Stevens if he wants a regular spot in Boston, which I think is certainly attainable this season.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I wish the highlights showed all of his shots. There’s so much shoddy defense I want to know what his misses look like.

I do like his instincts to RUN off a miss or steal. And he looks so rangy. A lot of his layups almost look a little awkward, like he’s still getting used to his own limbs and athleticism as well as avoiding shot blockers. Really want to see how he develops as he gets stronger.

Good project.
 

brendan f

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I do like his instincts to RUN off a miss or steal. And he looks so rangy. A lot of his layups almost look a little awkward, like he’s still getting used to his own limbs and athleticism as well as avoiding shot blockers. Really want to see how he develops as he gets stronger.

Good project.
If his 3 is for real he's pretty much exactly what this team needs--a low usage Grant-esque replacement who can actually handle the ball when he has the opportunity. When the season started I thought he'd be a project but based on his output so far and the mediocrity of the C's bench, I'm starting to think he could find a role with the team. The problem is he's only shooting the 3 at 32% in Portland so might not be there yet.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Even if he’s better than Stevens today (which is unclear to me) the right move still is likely for him to get another month or two of full time minutes before starting to play low end rotation minutes in Boston isn’t it? He needs to play until about February at a minimum.
 

JakeRae

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Even if he’s better than Stevens today (which is unclear to me) the right move still is likely for him to get another month or two of full time minutes before starting to play low end rotation minutes in Boston isn’t it? He needs to play until about February at a minimum.
Yes. He needs reps and is extremely unlikely to play any playoff minutes for this team this year. Realistically, an amazing outcome would be if he can take on the role of Banton/Brissett for next season and possibly develop into someone who is playable on limited minutes in the 2025 playoffs.
 

lovegtm

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Yes. He needs reps and is extremely unlikely to play any playoff minutes for this team this year. Realistically, an amazing outcome would be if he can take on the role of Banton/Brissett for next season and possibly develop into someone who is playable on limited minutes in the 2025 playoffs.
He's an older player, but this is exactly what they did with Hauser. One season of tons of G-League reps, then limited contribution in 2022-23, and now a full rotation player in 2023-24.
 

chilidawg

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Walsh with a 20/10 game last night, but only 1-8 from 3. Through 11 games averaging 14/6 but only shooting 40/30/69. He does lead the team in steals, but has the worst +/- on the team. Not exactly tearing up the G league. Maybe next year.
 

BigSoxFan

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Walsh with a 20/10 game last night, but only 1-8 from 3. Through 11 games averaging 14/6 but only shooting 40/30/69. He does lead the team in steals, but has the worst +/- on the team. Not exactly tearing up the G league. Maybe next year.
This reminded me to check in on Begarin. Shooting 29% from 3pt land and 59% from FT (…ugh).
 

benhogan

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Trayce Jackson-Davis, in his last 3 games since getting regular rotation minutes in the Warriors 3 wins:

72 Min
44 Points
16-23 FG
36 Rebounds
7 Assists
5 Blk Shots

Jordan Walsh, in his entire season for the Celtics

0 Min
0 Points
0-0 FG
0 Rebounds
0 Assists
0 Blk Shots


My screams for Gobert on draft night over Olynyk may soon be overtaken by my TJD screams last June.
TJD has made as many shots as Walsh that are not dunks or lay-ups, which is 0 (TJD is 0-2). If TJD were on the Cs, I'm pretty sure he'd have the same NBA stats as Walsh. Also, don't the Cs basically have a bigger version of TJD in Queeta?
Waiting for 2nd round 19yrs (Walsh/JDD) to develop their games and bodies when you're a contender seems sub-optimal. If I squint real hard, maybe I can see JDD/Walsh being sweeteners in a larger trade?

Credit to the Warriors, they had a good draft night with BP also.

It's the only criticism I have of Brad's administration now (and before those 2 draft picks)

BUT credit to Brad for using a 2-way on an experienced, successful G-League center like Queta
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Waiting for 2nd round 19yrs (Walsh/JDD) to develop their games and bodies when you're a contender seems sub-optimal.

Credit to the Warriors, they had a good draft night with BP also.

It's the only criticism I have of Brad's administration now (and before those 2 draft picks)
Based on nothing but internet rumours, I think if OMax was available, the Cs would have picked him and maybe he'd be getting minutes. TJD? If the Cs drafted him, he'd be playing in Maine as well.

Of the guys drafted at 25 or below, I took a very quick look and it seems that the only other guys getting regular run are Marcus Sasser (with HOU, who's shooting .425 from 3P), Strawther, Jackson, and Camara. People are raving about Camara but he's not grading out well on BRef advanced stats (-3.6 BPM; -0.3 VORP) but I can't stay up that late so no idea about his game.

The Cs are stacked. It's okay to acknowledge that the odds of getting a contributor at 25 or later is really low and maybe the idea is that the best thing to do is to draft someone who can be developed into a future asset for the team or in a trade.

But yes, GSW had a good draft night.
 

benhogan

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Based on nothing but internet rumours, I think if OMax was available, the Cs would have picked him and maybe he'd be getting minutes. TJD? If the Cs drafted him, he'd be playing in Maine as well.

Of the guys drafted at 25 or below, I took a very quick look and it seems that the only other guys getting regular run are Marcus Sasser (with HOU, who's shooting .425 from 3P), Strawther, Jackson, and Camara. People are raving about Camara but he's not grading out well on BRef advanced stats (-3.6 BPM; -0.3 VORP) but I can't stay up that late so no idea about his game.

The Cs are stacked. It's okay to acknowledge that the odds of getting a contributor at 25 or later is really low and maybe the idea is that the best thing to do is to draft someone who can be developed into a future asset for the team or in a trade.

But yes, GSW had a good draft night.
If a player capable of getting back-to-back Double-Doubles at the NBA level, would never get PT on the Celtics, when they have turned to starting a 4th string Center in Lamar Stevens (with 3 injured Centers) is a bigger problem than draft night binky-ism.

It's not like Trayce Jackson-Davis came out of nowhere, he was First Team All-American (like PP was).

As I said on draft night, TJD had a better Freshman year at Indiana than most of these guys getting drafted, except now you get 3 years of body/basketball development for FREE. I don't care about the rest of those other 2nd rounders (Sasser/Strawther went in Round 1) since TJD was the player I wanted BOS to take all along.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/trayce-jackson-davis-1.html
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If a player capable of getting back-to-back Double-Doubles at the NBA level, would never get PT on the Celtics, when they have turned to starting a 4th string Center in Lamar Stevens (with 3 injured Centers) is a bigger problem than draft night binky-ism.

It's not like Trayce Jackson-Davis came out of nowhere, he was First Team All-American (like PP was).

As I said on draft night, TJD had a better Freshman year at Indiana than most of these guys getting drafted, except now you get 3 years of body/basketball development for FREE. I don't care about the rest of those other 2nd rounders (Sasser/Strawther went in Round 1) since TJD was the player I wanted BOS to take all along.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/trayce-jackson-davis-1.html
If I had to chose between Walsh and TJD, I'd choose Walsh as I think a potential elite D wing who can make 3Ps is way more valuable than what TJD provides, but maybe I'm in the minority.

As for whether POBOBS should have used one of the 2nd rounds he got on TJD rather than trading them away, I don't really have a feeling for that as I don't think either is going to move the needle.

BTW, interesting Athletic story on why TJD fell - he wanted a guaranteed deal not a two-way. https://theathletic.com/5158386/2023/12/23/warriors-trayce-jackson-davis/. Also, as the article says, TJD landed in probably the perfect spot for him so good for him that he got his guaranteed deal plus an opportunity to play - and he's making the most of it. Kudos to him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If I had to chose between Walsh and TJD, I'd choose Walsh as I think a potential elite D wing who can make 3Ps is way more valuable than what TJD provides, but maybe I'm in the minority.

As for whether POBOBS should have used one of the 2nd rounds he got on TJD rather than trading them away, I don't really have a feeling for that as I don't think either is going to move the needle.

BTW, interesting Athletic story on why TJD fell - he wanted a guaranteed deal not a two-way. https://theathletic.com/5158386/2023/12/23/warriors-trayce-jackson-davis/. Also, as the article says, TJD landed in probably the perfect spot for him so good for him that he got his guaranteed deal plus an opportunity to play - and he's making the most of it. Kudos to him.
My position isn't that Walsh won't turn out to be something one day. He very well could. We aren't in developmental mode now or anytime in the near future and took a guy who can't help us this year while passing on someone whose skillset we'll be trying to acquire at the deadline. For the record, neither myself or I don't believe @benhogan wanted to use a 2nd rounder on TJD....we wanted to use the 1st rounder. I'm not sure if I buy that excuse for him driving from that article. I'm not in a place to research now but all top of the 2nd round picks get GTD deals for multiple years, no? Nobody is drafting him at say 40 to give a 4-yr College starter a two-way. I don't but that at all.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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My position isn't that Walsh won't turn out to be something one day. He very well could. We aren't in developmental mode now or anytime in the near future and took a guy who can't help us this year while passing on someone whose skillset we'll be trying to acquire at the deadline. For the record, neither myself or I don't believe @benhogan wanted to use a 2nd rounder on TJD....we wanted to use the 1st rounder. I'm not sure if I buy that excuse for him driving from that article. I'm not in a place to research now but all top of the 2nd round picks get GTD deals for multiple years, no? Nobody is drafting him at say 40 to give a 4-yr College starter a two-way. I don't but that at all.
Walsh has a roster spot so I think the jury is out on whether he's going to play later in the year. Again, I think taking TJD in the 1st round would have been a mistake and count me as one who prefers Walsh and the extra 2nd round picks.

The other thought might have been that at the time of the draft, BOS still had Time Lord and while I'm not that familiar with his gage, I don't think there's anything TJD can do that Time Lord can't.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The trade deadline is 1.5 months away. What are you talking about
That Walsh isn't competing for minites in Boston this season. There is a small group battling right now to determine which areas Brad is going to upgrade and Walsh isn't in it.
 

SteveF

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I more or less agree that TJD would have competed for regular season minutes, but at the time they did have 3 NBA centers on the roster (maybe only theoretically in the case of RWIII).

Does TJD move the needle in the playoffs? He's schematically limited on defense and a rim runner on offense. He's not exactly the type of big the Celtics like to use (or maybe even can use). The Celtics probably couldn't make as much use of him as Chris Paul can. Hell, remember the Bismack Biyombo minutes in Phoenix?

TJD could at least rebound and you could play him next to Porzingis or Horford (more theoretical in the case of Horford). I think he gets out of screens much faster than Kornet, so he would put more pressure on the rim. Maybe with Pritchard in a second unit with Tatum? That might have looked interesting. Pritchard is the one guy on the roster willing to make those lob passes consistently.
 

TripleOT

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If Boston was a .500 team missing rotation players due to injury, like the Warriors, why couldn’t Walsh get thrown into the rotation and do some good things?

TJ-D is competing, getting rebounds and cleaning up around the hoop. can someone let me know the first time this almost 24-year-old hits a shot that isn’t a layup or a dunk?

I’d rather have Queta and a great development project in Walsh.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Did I say Jordan Walsh is going to get minutes after the ASB? I meant Drew Petersen!

LOL!
Does TJD move the needle in the playoffs?
If TJD, Jordan Walsh, Drew Petersen or even Queta are playing anything other than garbage time minutes in the playoffs, I am betting the Cs are not reaching the promised land.
 

PedroKsBambino

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TJD looks to me like a discount Kevan Looney. Which has value, but is limited and scheme-specific.

Walsh’s median outcome is basically zero value. That’s less than TJD. But he has a chance to become a starting wing with plus defense, which would matter in this team’s five year horizon.

Given lack of ways to get young cost controlled upside and relatively limited need for a big I’m ok with that in concept. Others are better at scouting the players
 

HomeRunBaker

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But what does the trade deadline have to do with this?
This is when Brad makes his final determination on his second unit and backend rotation personnel. We have players competing for those roles right now. If Walsh was one of them he'd be here competing prior to any deadline acquisitions to play or also compete for those minutes.
 

benhogan

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If I had to chose between Walsh and TJD, I'd choose Walsh as I think a potential elite D wing who can make 3Ps is way more valuable than what TJD provides, but maybe I'm in the minority.

As for whether POBOBS should have used one of the 2nd rounds he got on TJD rather than trading them away, I don't really have a feeling for that as I don't think either is going to move the needle.

BTW, interesting Athletic story on why TJD fell - he wanted a guaranteed deal not a two-way. https://theathletic.com/5158386/2023/12/23/warriors-trayce-jackson-davis/. Also, as the article says, TJD landed in probably the perfect spot for him so good for him that he got his guaranteed deal plus an opportunity to play - and he's making the most of it. Kudos to him.
Thats fair. I think half the folks around here like the idea of developing Walsh.

So many like to play the projection game. IMO, a guy like TJD still has plenty of upside and he'll get the NBA minutes (be able to contribute right away) to start developing his game. He has the body to bang NBA 4s today.

IDK how Walsh, at his size, can be a plus defensive WING over the next 18 months. Somebody may get his upside when he is 22/23 years old but very much doubt it's Boston.
 

benhogan

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If I had to chose between Walsh and TJD, I'd choose Walsh as I think a potential elite D wing who can make 3Ps is way more valuable than what TJD provides, but maybe I'm in the minority.

As for whether POBOBS should have used one of the 2nd rounds he got on TJD rather than trading them away, I don't really have a feeling for that as I don't think either is going to move the needle.

BTW, interesting Athletic story on why TJD fell - he wanted a guaranteed deal not a two-way. https://theathletic.com/5158386/2023/12/23/warriors-trayce-jackson-davis/. Also, as the article says, TJD landed in probably the perfect spot for him so good for him that he got his guaranteed deal plus an opportunity to play - and he's making the most of it. Kudos to him.
Good article, thanks for posting. Sounds like Boston may have been kicking the tires early.

He labeled the Kings, Celtics, Pacers, Nets and Warriors as his expected top five.

The Warriors’ number model had Jackson-Davis as a top-15 prospect. Their final big board had him as a clear-cut first-rounder. After they selected Brandin Podziemski 19th, Jackson-Davis was given an indication that the Warriors were trying to trade back into the first round to grab him.


TJD's agent, Dunleavy's brother, probably greased the wheels to the Warriors.

So how exactly were they able to land Jackson-Davis with the 57th pick?

Contracts are not guaranteed for second-rounders. Teams will often use those picks to draft-and-stash an international prospect or, more recently, find someone that they can give a two-way contract.

Jackson-Davis was a victim of that newer strategy. He’d later learn that right around the 35th pick, almost every team began calling his agency — led by James Dunleavy, the brother of Warriors general manager Mike Dunleavy — indicating a desire to draft Jackson-Davis. But they wanted Jackson-Davis to accept a two-way contract, not a guaranteed roster spot.

That’s a team-friendly, restrictive contractual starting point for a rookie. Jackson-Davis wanted a guaranteed deal. So his agency kept nudging him away from inquiring teams unwilling to guarantee a deal. A second-round tumble began. Jackson-Davis, in frustration, tweeted: “Y’all will regret it. I promise you.”

The Warriors were willing to give Jackson-Davis a four-year deal with the first two years guaranteed. That was clearly the most security he could get. In return, Jackson-Davis’ addition to the roster saves the Warriors a chunk of tax money. Second-round rookies are the cheapest allowable contracts. He is making $1.1 million this season. Baldwin is making $2.3 million. Multiply that by the tax and that’s a notable savings.
 

benhogan

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That Walsh isn't competing for minites in Boston this season. There is a small group battling right now to determine which areas Brad is going to upgrade and Walsh isn't in it.
Boston's three two-way guys may have jumped Walsh.
Queta has definitely surpassed him.

Both JDD/Petersen got blowout minutes today.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Good article, thanks for posting. Sounds like Boston may have been kicking the tires early.

He labeled the Kings, Celtics, Pacers, Nets and Warriors as his expected top five.

The Warriors’ number model had Jackson-Davis as a top-15 prospect. Their final big board had him as a clear-cut first-rounder. After they selected Brandin Podziemski 19th, Jackson-Davis was given an indication that the Warriors were trying to trade back into the first round to grab him.


TJD's agent, Dunleavy's brother, probably greased the wheels to the Warriors.

So how exactly were they able to land Jackson-Davis with the 57th pick?

Contracts are not guaranteed for second-rounders. Teams will often use those picks to draft-and-stash an international prospect or, more recently, find someone that they can give a two-way contract.

Jackson-Davis was a victim of that newer strategy. He’d later learn that right around the 35th pick, almost every team began calling his agency — led by James Dunleavy, the brother of Warriors general manager Mike Dunleavy — indicating a desire to draft Jackson-Davis. But they wanted Jackson-Davis to accept a two-way contract, not a guaranteed roster spot.

That’s a team-friendly, restrictive contractual starting point for a rookie. Jackson-Davis wanted a guaranteed deal. So his agency kept nudging him away from inquiring teams unwilling to guarantee a deal. A second-round tumble began. Jackson-Davis, in frustration, tweeted: “Y’all will regret it. I promise you.”

The Warriors were willing to give Jackson-Davis a four-year deal with the first two years guaranteed. That was clearly the most security he could get. In return, Jackson-Davis’ addition to the roster saves the Warriors a chunk of tax money. Second-round rookies are the cheapest allowable contracts. He is making $1.1 million this season. Baldwin is making $2.3 million. Multiply that by the tax and that’s a notable savings.
Looks like TJD and JW got the same contracts. https://www.nwahomepage.com/sports/pig-trail-nation/pro-hog-jordan-walsh-to-receive-3-million-guaranteed-in-first-two-years-of-his-4-year-7-6-million-rookie-deal-with-boston-celtics/
 

benhogan

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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Those contracts are so dirt cheap with so much optionality that grabbing all those future 2nds was probably the best thing Brad did on draft day.
Agree with this and that's why I think trading out of the 1st round was the right move. As for whether they should have signed TJD or JW, what do I know - I'm still check to see what Romeo Langford is up to these days. :unsure:
 

TripleOT

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Boston's three two-way guys may have jumped Walsh.
Queta has definitely surpassed him.

Both JDD/Petersen got blowout minutes today.
When Petersen was put in the game, I figured it was Joe letting him play in his college city.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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TJD looks to me like a discount Kevan Looney. Which has value, but is limited and scheme-specific.

Walsh’s median outcome is basically zero value. That’s less than TJD. But he has a chance to become a starting wing with plus defense, which would matter in this team’s five year horizon.

Given lack of ways to get young cost controlled upside and relatively limited need for a big I’m ok with that in concept. Others are better at scouting the players
This. League average wings seem more highly valued than equivalent bigs.
 

lovegtm

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I imagine Brad's thought process was:
- we have more NBA-level guard/wing depth than most other high-priced contenders
- thus, don't immediately have minutes for a 4-year-college type at those positions
- big is easiest vet/scrapheap position to acquire (subsequently validated by unearthing Queta, and they will probably hit the trade market too)
- we'll need cost-controlled wings down the road

At that point, if Walsh is high on your board, you take him over an older backup center type.

I would bet that, over the next couple years, we'll see them draft more older guys in the 2nd round as the team's depth/cost profile changes.
 

lovegtm

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Also, when we see the Celtics successfully develop Hauser and then take flyers on Walsh and Peterson, we can tell they clearly think cost-controlled guards/wings is where the development alpha is at.

Very Heat-esque. I bet Brad regrets passing on Strus in favor of Tacko to this day.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Boston's three two-way guys may have jumped Walsh.
Queta has definitely surpassed him.

Both JDD/Petersen got blowout minutes today.
When Petersen was put in the game, I figured it was Joe letting him play in his college city.
Walsh turns 20 on March 3rd and has one year of college ball under his belt. JDD is 1.5 years older and has a pro year in the G (and Celtics system) along with a college year. Drew Peterson is 4.5 years older than Walsh (just 1.5 years younger than Jayson Tatum - or, if you prefer, 2 years younger than Sam Hauser). Peterson and JDD are ahead of Walsh because of physical maturity and experience, not potential.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, it could be as simple as Peterson played at USC and had people there to see him play so Joe put him in. It's an easy way to garner some goodwill with a player.
This is one often overlooked role of a coach in keeping bench players engaged by using them in their "circled" games. He did the same last week when Lamar Stevens suddenly received rotation minutes against him former team the Cavaliers after a dozen straight DNPs.