Pats Depth Chart: an Early Look

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
9,087
Philly
Imagine we're in a high stakes game against a team with one of the better and more aggressive defensive backfields in the league. None of Josh's rub routes or other man beater plays seem to be working to scheme our way to first downs. Which of these TEs and WRs are we relying on to win against good man coverage on big third downs when we really need to make a play?
The answer at least now appears to be Henry and Agholor, both of whom have some ability. But I think the real answer is that this team isn't going to be winning a ton of games where it has to complete a lot of passes to get some big third downs--it's going to win by mauling teams defensively, running the ball well and using a tight end focused passing game to supplement the running game.
Agree. Would also add Jonnu Smith might be featured more than he was in TEN. I think their strategy is going to be: we will force you to be in base defense and then pick you apart with matchups that favor one of our inside receivers whether that is Henry, Smith, or Bourne/Meyers/Harry or even White. Someone is going to be up against an LB and the only guy unlikely to have that matchup is UNLIKE AGHOLOR. I sincerely hope the dopes autocorrect Agholor to UNLIKE AGHOLOR.

Quick edit: even in nickel or dime Jonnu and Henry can beat corners and safeties. I think this offense for better or worse is going to be run through them.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
9,087
Philly
This is precisely why I had Anthony Schwartz on my draft list. Alas...
Schwartz was a fascinating eval. He had some nice RAC ability but yet hardly ever had the RAC to back it up. He also had some of the worst ball tracking in the class for a deep threat. He reminds me of Clifford Franklin in the replacements. Really fast but bad ball tracking and can't make contested catches. Schwartz is also still learning route running (which many NFL teams just assume they can teach to players... a dangerous assumption). He was a good fit for Cleveland who needed a deep threat and a speedy receiver. WR is going to be a need next year in the draft (most likely) so should be exciting to see how this plays out.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Agree. Would also add Jonnu Smith might be featured more than he was in TEN. I think their strategy is going to be: we will force you to be in base defense and then pick you apart with matchups that favor one of our inside receivers whether that is Henry, Smith, or Bourne/Meyers/Harry or even White. Someone is going to be up against an LB and the only guy unlikely to have that matchup is UNLIKE AGHOLOR. I sincerely hope the dopes autocorrect Agholor to UNLIKE AGHOLOR.

Quick edit: even in nickel or dime Jonnu and Henry can beat corners and safeties. I think this offense for better or worse is going to be run through them.
I feel like part of BB's strategy on defense is to take away your #1. In essence on offense, what he is doing here is creating an offense where the strength will lie in the depth of options. Maybe there is no Hopkins, Parker, Moss, as a #1 who must be doubled, but the Pat's 4th and 5th options might be good enough to beat your 4th and 5th coverage guys.
 

ZMart100

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2008
3,263
I'm not sure there's anyone on the team I want throwing 40 yards down the sideline anyway.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
26,055
Unreal America
You have to pick your poison. There's no way to give every single player a backup that can exactly replicate what they do.
Plus, there is a salary cap and the team had a lot of needs to address. I'm pretty comfortable with what we have at WR, considering the pass-catching TEs we added, and the ever-present James White. On any given snap we could have upwards of five strong pass catchers running a route. No, none of them are Randy Moss, but I think whoever is under center will have weapons to utilize.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,229
A Scud Away from Hell
By all accounts, Kirkpatrick had a disappointing year in 2020 in Arizona:

Kirkpatrick struggled in coverage for most of the season. His Pro Football Focus score was 49, ranking 105th out of 121 qualified cornerbacks.

This led to him getting targeted a lot.

Opposing quarterbacks threw his way 94 times, fourth-most of anybody who played in 14 games during the season. His PFF coverage grade was 46.1, as he allowed the fourth-highest completion percentage (66 percent) out of the 15 players with at least 94 targets.

He especially struggled to contain the short and intermediate passing game, like slants and out routes. This was apparent in the first outing against the Seattle Seahawks in Week 7, when receiver Tyler Lockett got the better of him several times.

Kirkpatrick also finished the year with four pass interference calls against him, most on the team, and had seven flags in total.
The former Cardinal also didn't play well in 2019, his last year with the Bengals:

Kirkpatrick has been the worst of the Bengals three starting corners. Quarterbacks have been quite successful when targeting the former Alabama defender. He is allowing a QBR of 107.4 when thrown at. Additionally, opposing quarterbacks are 15-26 for 197 yards with two touchdowns and a 57.7 completion percentage when going after him. I am not insinuating Kirkpatrick is the worst corner ever by any means, but this level of play is unacceptable. Kirkpatrick suffered a knee injury in Sunday’s game and was seen with a brace on. An MRI will be completed soon to determine the extent of the injury.
At this point, he should only be an insurance hedge against better corners getting injured (or traded).
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,907
Melrose, MA
Agree. Would also add Jonnu Smith might be featured more than he was in TEN. I think their strategy is going to be: we will force you to be in base defense and then pick you apart with matchups that favor one of our inside receivers whether that is Henry, Smith, or Bourne/Meyers/Harry or even White. Someone is going to be up against an LB and the only guy unlikely to have that matchup is UNLIKE AGHOLOR. I sincerely hope the dopes autocorrect Agholor to UNLIKE AGHOLOR.

Quick edit: even in nickel or dime Jonnu and Henry can beat corners and safeties. I think this offense for better or worse is going to be run through them.
And they have the line and the RBs to make that part of the scheme work.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
25,474
https://www.patriots.com/news/reports-patriots-bolster-offensive-line-depth

"According to two reports, the Patriots have made two depth signings for their offensive line as the team enters phase two of offseason team activities on Monday. According to Tom Pelissero, veteran guard Alex Redmond will join the team, while ESPN's Mike Reiss reports that familiar face James Ferentz will also be entering the mix along the offensive line.

Redmond made 24 starts since 2017 for the Bengals, while Ferentz has spent parts of the last four seasons with the Patriots. In 2020, he started two games after being added as a midseason injury replacement."
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,358
Redmond is the classic mauler in a phone booth. Unfortunately, he's a bigtime liability in pass protection and is very penalty prone (10 holding penalties in fewer than 1700 snaps). I suppose he's a decent fit as a backup for the Pats power running game looking in from the outside but you really don't want him playing starter snaps.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Redmond is the classic mauler in a phone booth. Unfortunately, he's a bigtime liability in pass protection and is very penalty prone (10 holding penalties in fewer than 1700 snaps). I suppose he's a decent fit as a backup for the Pats power running game looking in from the outside but you really don't want him playing starter snaps.
I just assumed he was signed to be the designated “veteran offensive Lineman who retires during training camp.”
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,837
Competition for Stidham for the QB3 spot on the roster? Doing a solid for a veteran backup in what is assuredly his final season? Disaster insurance in the event that Cam suffers an untimely injury in training camp?
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,765
Or as the backup should Mac Jones impress and beats out Cam Newton thus releasing Newton.
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
21,557
Can't believe they'd cut Stidham in favor of Brian Hoyer.

Maybe it's true that they think Jones has a shot of unseating Newton, and that if that happens, they'll need Hoyer as QB3 (because Cam isn't sticking around to be #2).
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,366
around the way
Really not surprising at all. There's little chance that they want Jones playing in the first month of the season, no matter what. So they prefer Hoyer to Stidham as "In case Cam breaks his leg in week 2" insurance. Pretty smart IMO.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
17,515
Hard to speculate what, if anything, the Hoyer contract means without knowing if there is any guaranteed $ in the deal.

There seem to be more mediocre QBs than jobs right now, so it could be a nothing contract to have him around as an experienced camp body.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
26,055
Unreal America
Can’t we just hire Hoyer as a coach? No one can think he has any decent minutes left in the tank to contribute as a player, can they?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
25,474
That would be amazing. Sign him to be an assistant QB coach, and if they really need him, then sign him to a football contract. That way he's still around the building, still doing a lot of football stuff with them, but unless they have an emergency, he wouldn't cost them anything against the cap. Is there anything in the CBA against this?
 

MainerInExile

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2003
4,825
Bay Area
Newton is very different from the other 3 QBs on the roster. If Jones wins the job, Jones, Stid, Hoyer makes a lot more sense as the 3. Reiss had an article recently about how in 01 all the QBs we're the same style, and BB contrasted it back then with when they had Michael Bishop, who was very different.
 
Last edited:

kwa1430

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
532
New Bedford, MA
Newton is very different from the other 3 QBs on the roster. If Jones wins the job, Jones, Stid, Hoyer makes a lot more sense as the 3. Reiss had an article recently about how in 03 all the QBs we're the same style, and BB contrasted it back then with when they had Michael Bishop, who was very different.
Jones and Newton can actually run the same RPO offense with minor adjustments. Jones ran a heavy RPO offense last year at Alabama with similarities to the Pats with Newton. I think the common misconception is Jones would run a Brady like offense but he actually doesn't fit this stlye.

See the article below for a great comparison:

https://www.clnsmedia.com/lazar-adapting-offense-to-fit-mac-jones-wont-be-an-issue-for-patriots/

The major difference is that Jones runs an RPO but isn't the runner like Cam.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,735
Newton is very different from the other 3 QBs on the roster. If Jones wins the job, Jones, Stid, Hoyer makes a lot more sense as the 3. Reiss had an article recently about how in 01 all the QBs we're the same style, and BB contrasted it back then with when they had Michael Bishop, who was very different.
They definitely do not make sense since we know from last year that 2 of those guys can't be trusted at all on an NFL field.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,366
around the way
Yup.

Cam's salary is also fully guaranteed and he is a popular guy in the locker room. There are like a thousand reasons why cutting him isn't remotely realistic.
You're both right, and it would be lovely to drown that idea while we have the chance. Good luck with that among the radio consumers though.

Stidham is dead man walking, not Cam.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,735
Honestly.... if Jones looks really good in camp (we'll never know from public statements, the coaches and guys on the team pump up everyone), I think it's not unlikely that both Hoyer and Stidham get cut and we go 2 QBs on the roster and 1 on the Practice Squad.
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
21,557
Honestly.... if Jones looks really good in camp (we'll never know from public statements, the coaches and guys on the team pump up everyone), I think it's not unlikely that both Hoyer and Stidham get cut and we go 2 QBs on the roster and 1 on the Practice Squad.
But the one on the PS would have to be someone other than Hoyer or Stidham, correct? Maybe Dolegala comes back?
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,765
Yup.

Cam's salary is also fully guaranteed and he is a popular guy in the locker room. There are like a thousand reasons why cutting him isn't remotely realistic.
Cam has 3 million guaranteed that’s all. Zolak thinks that Hoyer coming in might be a bad sign for Cam. He said Hoyer isn’t coming into work with Cam. He’s coming in to work with the two young kids. If Cam had 14 million guaranteed then he’s a roster lock but he doesn’t have that.