Omer Asik

radsoxfan

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Rudy Pemberton said:
Sure it improves the roster, but I thought the idea was to get worse- not better? Giving up a first rounder to acquire a player who won't be on the next good Celtic team seems nuts to me. I don't get these rumors.
 
If you want to look at every move in the context of tanking, obviously that changes the dynamic entirely.  But those arguments probably belong more in the tanking thread than here.
 
It's abundantly clear the Celtics are not tanking.  They are making moves with the future more in mind than the present (and getting rid of Courtney Lee does exactly that).  But with that overriding mindset in the background, Danny wants to make the team better as well.
 
Late first round picks have some value, but probably not as much as a lot of people think.  Sure, it's nice to have multiple chances to hit on a solid player in the 20's, but it's entirely different than a top 10 pick.  If the draft choice in this trade is lottery protected, I have no problem with it.  If you're desperate for a late first round pick in a particular draft for some reason at some point, you can probably get one later at a reasonable cost.
 

BucketOBalls

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As of right now, the C's would be drafting....16th. Unless the NBA takes into account posteason seedings like the NFL does for draft order(I don't really know actually, it's never mattered before), since they might actually win the division with a slightly below .500 record.
 
Kinda sucks that East sucks this year.   Having your best player being hurt most of the year is the traditional way to do these things.
 
 
 

mt8thsw9th

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Brickowski said:
If you look at the numbers that Jeff Van Gully posted earlier in this thread, you have just traded Bass, Lee and a protected first for a healthy (presumably)Turkish Kendrick Perkins.
It's pretty well-documented that Asik is Turkish.
 

Sprowl

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BucketOBalls said:
Kinda sucks that East sucks this year.   Having your best player being hurt most of the year is the traditional way to do these things
 
Rajon Rondo respects tradition.
 

Jer

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Bulpett in the Herald last night: Celtics-Rockets trade talks not so hot
 
 
The Celtics were not deep in talks with the Rockets today. They were not negotiating over which first-round pick would be included in the deal or how well protected that pick would be.
 
According to a source from a team that has been involved in the process and dropped out, the next move would have to come from the Rockets.
“It’s kind of funny how things that have been dead for a while keep coming up,” he said. “The only way I can see anything happening is if Daryl (Morey, the Houston GM) decides he wants something that he’s already said no to.
 
 Gotta assume that the leak came from Morey to try and get other offers to appear/improve in the 11th hour. 
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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The NBA also contacted the Rockets to let them know that they actually have an extra day to make this deal. Their self imposed deadline was dictated by the date on which you can acquire players in a trade and still trade them later in the year. The Rockets had been operating as if that date was today, but the league made it clear that it's actually tomorrow.
 

Nick Kaufman

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If the potential trade was leaked by Houston, then it seems like a logical possibility to me that Houston did so in order to have another interested team to either accept Houston's term on a deal they re working on or come by with an 11th hour better offer.
 

Brickowski

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From Hoopshype this morning:

"Morey has apparently set a Thursday deadline for the deal, and the Celtics, seeking their first legitimate center in his prime since they traded Kendrick Perkins, showed interest. Multiple league sources told the Globe Wednesday it was likely Morey was trying to stir interest in Asik than a deal was in the works. Another league source said that, in fact, a deal was not in the works. Boston Globe......

However, late in the evening, yet another league source told the Globe a deal was “close” and the sides were haggling over the draft pick. Another league source said that Bass was not involved in a proposed deal."

LOL, what does it take to become a "league source?" A twitter account?
 

Jer

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The X Man Cometh said:
 
In before Danny makes Morey his ***** at the real trade deadline.
 
Has anyone made Morey their B@#ch? Sure a deal could still happen today, but I don't expect Morey to compromise too much. This is a decent article if you want some insights on the guy.
 
I suspect he doesn't care about "Asik the locker room malcontent" nearly as much as the media has been indicating. This self-imposed deadline was never do or die. It provided some false urgency with trading partners and if hit, it would've given him more flexibility by flipping players he didn't necessarily want (i.e. Lee) later in the season. 
 

Statman

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What makes Morey think he is going to be able to get more value for Asik after not playing him for another two months?
 
Any team trading for Asik near the February trade deadline is basically acquiring a center who can't score for 1.5 seasons at the cost of roughly $17.5M total.  I just don't see many teams going for that. 
 

Devizier

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Statman said:
What makes Morey think he is going to be able to get more value for Asik after not playing him for another two months?
 
 
He's got to be hoping that a contender suffers an injury and finds themselves in need of a replacement. 
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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BigSoxFan said:
The 2 teams he's apparently dealing with the most, Celtics and Sixers, can wait him out until the last hour in February because neither team really cares about winning. I doubt the parameters of the deal will change much so he's probably waiting for a 3rd team to emerge that needs Asik this year.
 
Unless either of those teams had designs on flipping Asik to a Western conference contender that Morey wouldn't do a deal with, like Portland. Portland might actually be the landing spot that makes the most sense for him, and has expressed interest, but Morey doesn't want to improve a Western Conference team. So if Boston was interested in Asik so that they could then flip him to Portland in a deal where they got Lopez and McCollum, or something like that, the deal would have to be done by tomorrow. 
 

Devizier

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Jer said:
 
Has anyone made Morey their B@#ch? Sure a deal could still happen today, but I don't expect Morey to compromise too much. This is a decent article if you want some insights on the guy.
 
 
Aside from trading the rights to Nic Batum (25th) for Donte Green (28th) and Joey Dorsey (33rd), not too much. One thing that helps is not getting involved in trades unnecessarily or out of desperation.
 
Either way, there's no way that Morey is going to come out anyone's bitch in an Asik trade, because he's not a great player.
 

Brickowski

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there's no way that Morey is going to come out anyone's bitch in an Asik trade, because he's not a great player.
Yes, that's the rub. Asik isn't that good. And Morey will get even less for Asik at the deadline, because no one is paying 15 million for a one year rental of a player worth $8M who hasn't seen the floor for the first 3/4 of the season.

If Ainge in fact offered Bass, Lee and the 2015 Clips pick, Morey was a fool not to take it. In my view, any offer for Asik that included a first rounder (even if reasonably protected) was an overpay.
 

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Ainge gave up a lot to get those picks. He isn't going to throw them away.
 

dhellers

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The value of yet another middling pick
 
Cellar-Door said:
Depends on the pick obviously, but either this year's ATL/BKN pick or the LAC pick seem most likely. What are the odds either by draft or by trade that pick turns into something better than Omer Asik at the beginning of his prime. I'd guess it is pretty low.
Agreed. At some point the marginal value of a middling pick is middling.  It would be interesting to see how a team with Sullinger playing power forward and Green at the 3 would work next to a competent post defender.
 
Or as X man said upthread:"... if the Celtics are going to field a more entertaining and competitive team, and decrease their chances of drafting a generational player in 2014 from 1% to 0.5%, that's perfectly fine with me."
 

Brickowski

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Before last night's game Gorman asked Heinsohn if he would do the rumored deal, and Tommy said no. He pointed out that Asik would clog up the low post and make it more difficult to space the floor when Sullinger is in the game. IMHO Heinsohn was right. If the Celtics are in the market for a rim protector, I'd like to see them target a big man who can operate on offense at the high post and at the elbows, because I would want to free up the low post for Sullinger. IMHO the second coming of Marcus Camby would be a great fit for this team (or the second coming of KG but that may never happen).
 

Stitch01

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Celtics are in acquiring assets mode.  Whether Asik is a great fit on the Celtics as currently constructed doesnt really matter IMHO.  If they think they are buying low on Asik and/or think he has skills that could work on some sort of title contender down the line, then the trade makes sense regardless of what it does to this years team.  Can always trade Asik or Sullinger later to create a team that meshes together when the team has enough talent to contend.
 

Kliq

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I think Asik is getting kind of a bad rap. The signing of him last year was seen as a very smart move by Houston this time last year if I recall correctly. This is a guy, who has a starting Center in the NBA, averaged a double-double last season. He is unquestionably an elite rebounder, nobody last season grabbed more boards than Asik. In addition, he is a good defensive player that can protect the rim a little bit and will not be 28 until next July. For Bass/Lee and the Clips first rounder, that seems like a deal to me. Ideally he is a rich-mans Perkins, and at the least he is a real quality rotation big man.
 

Cellar-Door

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Kliq said:
I think Asik is getting kind of a bad rap. The signing of him last year was seen as a very smart move by Houston this time last year if I recall correctly. This is a guy, who has a starting Center in the NBA, averaged a double-double last season. He is unquestionably an elite rebounder, nobody last season grabbed more boards than Asik. In addition, he is a good defensive player that can protect the rim a little bit and will not be 28 until next July. For Bass/Lee and the Clips first rounder, that seems like a deal to me. Ideally he is a rich-mans Perkins, and at the least he is a real quality rotation big man.
Part of the problem for HOU in getting value for Asik is the way the contract was structured to get him form CHI. 8M or so a year isn't too bad for Asik, but because it was structured as 4.5, 4.5 15 or something like that the team getting him is paying the poison pill with less than a year of the cheap years. so teams look at him as overpayed.
 

Devizier

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Kliq said:
I think Asik is getting kind of a bad rap. The signing of him last year was seen as a very smart move by Houston this time last year if I recall correctly. This is a guy, who has a starting Center in the NBA, averaged a double-double last season. He is unquestionably an elite rebounder, nobody last season grabbed more boards than Asik. In addition, he is a good defensive player that can protect the rim a little bit and will not be 28 until next July. For Bass/Lee and the Clips first rounder, that seems like a deal to me. Ideally he is a rich-mans Perkins, and at the least he is a real quality rotation big man.
 
Not to single this out, but the points-side of Asik's double-double was just a shade over ten. In other words, not very significant. That performance -- easily the most proficient offense he's demonstrated in his career -- ranked him 138th among qualified players in points per minute, three slots behind E'Twaun Moore. In other words, I'm not sure double-doubles are all that significant. I mean, even Sam Dalembert averaged a double double in a season, and he's about as far from David Robinson as you're going to get in the league.
 

Kliq

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Devizier said:
 
Not to single this out, but the points-side of Asik's double-double was just a shade over ten. In other words, not very significant. That performance -- easily the most proficient offense he's demonstrated in his career -- ranked him 138th among qualified players in points per minute, three slots behind E'Twaun Moore. In other words, I'm not sure double-doubles are all that significant. I mean, even Sam Dalembert averaged a double double in a season, and he's about as far from David Robinson as you're going to get in the league.
 
I'm not saying that he is a phenomenal player or anything, but some people are acting like he is a scrub. With the right supporting cast, I think he can be the starting 5 on a championship team. Just imagine if Miami got him, how much better of a team they would be defensivley. He has a good amount of value.
 

Cellar-Door

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Devizier said:
 
Not to single this out, but the points-side of Asik's double-double was just a shade over ten. In other words, not very significant. That performance -- easily the most proficient offense he's demonstrated in his career -- ranked him 138th among qualified players in points per minute, three slots behind E'Twaun Moore. In other words, I'm not sure double-doubles are all that significant. I mean, even Sam Dalembert averaged a double double in a season, and he's about as far from David Robinson as you're going to get in the league.
I agree to te extent that double doubles aren't a good stat, but neither is points per minute. He had a very respectable 1.36 points per shot attempt, the same as Bosh and Pekovic. Now I doubt he could keep that up with a significant increase in attempts unless he is able to keep his FT% above 65%, but he isn't a bad offensive player as much as he simply isn't a focal point of any offense, nor should he be.
 

bowiac

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Kliq said:
I'm not saying that he is a phenomenal player or anything, but some people are acting like he is a scrub. With the right supporting cast, I think he can be the starting 5 on a championship team. Just imagine if Miami got him, how much better of a team they would be defensivley. He has a good amount of value.
I don't think people are saying he's a scrub, just that he's not the kind of building block chip it makes sense for the Celtics to trade real assets for.
 

bowiac

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Cellar-Door said:
I agree to te extent that double doubles aren't a good stat, but neither is points per minute. He had a very respectable 1.36 points per shot attempt, the same as Bosh and Pekovic. Now I doubt he could keep that up with a significant increase in attempts unless he is able to keep his FT% above 65%, but he isn't a bad offensive player as much as he simply isn't a focal point of any offense, nor should he be.
FWIW, points/FGA isn't a very good metric of shooting efficiency, because it misses that a 2-shot foul doesn't generate a FGA, but it does generally still burn a possession. TS% is closer to what you're looking for, which accounts for those extra possessions. If you look there, it becomes clear why Pekovic and Bosh are considered much better offensive players. There is a significant difference. 
 
Dec 13, 2013
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Jer said:
 
Well played! You've got to think the agents are maneuvering here. Interesting side note, Jim Tanner (Thaddeus Young) is also Jeremy Lin's agent.
 
I don't understand why Philadelphia would want Asik.

They are invested in Noel, who surely Asik has no fit on the floor with. Pairing the two on the court will not only hurt them, but will diminish the value of all the players who have to play with such an asynergetic pair. They have Hawes expiring, so its not like their long term financial outlook would change. And all the players they have currently (Turner, Hawes, Young, MCW, Noel, Wroten) are ideal for a fast-paced style of play, which is not Asik's strength at all.

Unless there's a 3rd team the whole thing is weird.
 

Jer

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Philly is more overtly tanking so they definitely don't care about on the court performance. However, you are correct, it might be tough to showcase Asik in that rotation. I'm suspect there'd be a 3rd team, either immediately or by the trade deadline.
 

nighthob

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The X Man Cometh said:
 
I don't understand why Philadelphia would want Asik.
 
 
Because defensively Noel is a primary help defender and Asik fits with him like a glove on that end of the floor. That's the foundation of a very good defensive team there.
 

Statman

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nighthob said:
 
Because defensively Noel is a primary help defender and Asik fits with him like a glove on that end of the floor. That's the foundation of a very good defensive team there.
 
Two offensively challenged 7 footers playing at the same time is not going to take the Sixers to the next level unless they have a chuckers like Iverson playing at the other 3 positions. 
 

Devizier

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Kliq said:
 
I'm not saying that he is a phenomenal player or anything, but some people are acting like he is a scrub. With the right supporting cast, I think he can be the starting 5 on a championship team. Just imagine if Miami got him, how much better of a team they would be defensivley. He has a good amount of value.
 
Well, sure. I agree with that assessment. He's a role player -- a post-defensive center -- and quite good at that role. But he's basically a midlevel-plus guy, and is paid (AAV) exactly that. Miami's a bad example because 1) their roster construction (three max) doesn't allow them to sign a player to his contract and 2) they won a championship with Joel Anthony as their center.
 

nighthob

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Statman said:
 
Two offensively challenged 7 footers playing at the same time is not going to take the Sixers to the next level unless they have a chuckers like Iverson playing at the other 3 positions. 
 
Forget Noel's height. He isn't going to a paint defender any time this decade. His strengths are his quickness, speed, and ability to get off the floor. Would it be better if he had an offensive game a la Anthony Davis? Yes. Unfortunately he doesn't. Would it be nice if the Sixers could come up a player that can be a top flight paint defender while spacing the floor on the offensive end? Yes. Unfortunately those guys are incredibly rare. You have to make do with what you have.
 

Devizier

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Cellar-Door said:
I agree to te extent that double doubles aren't a good stat, but neither is points per minute. He had a very respectable 1.36 points per shot attempt, the same as Bosh and Pekovic. Now I doubt he could keep that up with a significant increase in attempts unless he is able to keep his FT% above 65%, but he isn't a bad offensive player as much as he simply isn't a focal point of any offense, nor should he be.
 
Points per minute doesn't capture efficiency, but it does capture usage, which is important.
 
Think about it this way; Tyson Chandler's field goal and true shooting percentages are off the charts, would you consider him one of the best offensive players in the league?
 
Chandler's not even a good comparison, because Asik's rate stats are less pretty when you consider his glaring weaknesses.