Morey has played his cards beautifully but they're definitely of the belief that they are contenders this year with Howard, and they'll make moves based upon this mindset.Devizier said:
Omer Asik
- Thread starter knucklecup
- Start date
What Asik lacks offensively, Gortat has, and vice versa. He may be a different player than Asik but he's not a bad one or an overpaid one by any means.radsoxfan said:
Don't just assume. What possibilities are there for Asik if you think my proposal is so far off?
knucklecup said:
I think your proposal is off because getting Bass is not good. I don't think Houston would take him on their team, at his salary, for nothing. It has nothing to do with what I think of Gortat.
I'm not saying I think Asik will fetch a huge package. But he should get Houston at least something they want, even if its relatively minor.
knucklecup said:
Are you talking about this proposal?
Boston gets: Omer Asik
Houston gets: Brandon Bass, MarShon Brooks
In that scenario whats the point for Houston? Bass isnt much of an upgrade over Jones who is cheaper and is actually developing whereas Bass has played his best basketball.
If they move Asik I would imagine they want to get some value in return, either value in future financial flexibility or basketball value. Your Bass trade certainly doesnt bring them financial value. I dont think they would do it, but I do wonder how Houston would react to an Asik/Lin for Humphries/Bass scenario, only because it sheds some salary for them so next year they could use the MLE without going over the luxury tax. I dont think thats great value, but at least it provides them some value.
I still think some variation of the Ryan Anderson for Asik deal that was rumored this summer makes sense for both teams. Anthony Davis has come along much faster than anybody expected him to, and lineups with Anderson and Davis force Davis to guard 5s, which is less than ideal. They're in pretty serious need of a rim protector, unless they believe Jeff Withey is ready to give them 30 minutes a game, and have plenty of scoring options with Davis, Gordon, Holiday, and Evans. Meanwhile, Anderson's proven to be an effective stretch 4 alongside Dwight in the past, and the salaries work perfectly.
Thats well thought out and actually helps both teams. That would give the Pelicans (still cant believe thats a real name) a nice young core with Gordon, Davis and Asik all of whom havent played their best basketball. I guess the only question mark for me is if Houston might want a 4 who can operate on the block, not that they are really easy to come by and maybe thats not an option they need. If I was the coach, I would want someone besides Dwight to use down on the block
radsoxfan said:
Well, Bass was a rotation guy on some pretty good playoff Celtics teams. But I think what you're saying is that he's mediocre. He certainly is, but I wouldn't put too much stock in his numbers so far this year. In case you haven't noticed, this year's Celtics are a complete shitshow.
Anyways, teams pay the midlevel exemption for Bass-level players all the time. Guys like Carl Landry and Ersan Ilyasova. The inefficiency is for the top guys, who are usually underpaid in their max contracts.
But all this is besides the point. A much younger Bass didn't work next to a much younger Howard in
Devizier said:
I'm not saying he is mediocre. He used to be mediocre. He is currently bad.
Teams give mid-level deals to guys like Brandon Bass circa 2011. Last season he was horrendous, and any team that scouted the Celtics would not want any part of him. Maybe Bass turns it around this year, who knows. But I don't see any reason for a team to assume last season (in what should have been his prime), was a fluke until proven otherwise.
The current version of Brandon Bass has nothing in common with Carl Landry and Ersan Ilyasova. Those guys both are legit rotation guys in the NBA.
Thoughts on this trade...
Houston: Jeff Green (clippers 2015 1st)
Atl: Asik, Brooks (to make money work)
Celtics: L. Williams,(cunningham/$), flip with atl getting top of nets/atl pick.
-Green is the ultimate heat check guy, coming off the bench he would be a huge weapon. Win now
-ALT gets rim protector allowing Horford move to PF. Make a move for 3 seed.
-Celtics get chance to root against Nets even more, clear out salary, and can toss Williams in another trade down the line.
Who says no?
money works with trade machine
Houston: Jeff Green (clippers 2015 1st)
Atl: Asik, Brooks (to make money work)
Celtics: L. Williams,(cunningham/$), flip with atl getting top of nets/atl pick.
-Green is the ultimate heat check guy, coming off the bench he would be a huge weapon. Win now
-ALT gets rim protector allowing Horford move to PF. Make a move for 3 seed.
-Celtics get chance to root against Nets even more, clear out salary, and can toss Williams in another trade down the line.
Who says no?
money works with trade machine
brohirrum said:
The Hawks would say no right now on the chance that the Nets are as bad as they've started the season playing. Houston might also say no because Asik could probably get them a player who is a better fit than Green. The Celtics might say no because the Nets probably aren't this bad, and swapping pick 17 for pick 23 doesn't have a ton of value and Ainge may still be holding out hope he can develop Green into a more valuable asset than that.
brohirrum said:
For the Celts this seems short-sighted. Right now it looks like that Nets pick might be pretty good and while that team is a mess, I think they have too much talent and leadership (KG&PP) to at least get to 500 by years end. If thats the case for the Celts this trade might just be an useless exercise.
And what do you mean by Green is the ultimate heat check guy? Do you just mean he is streaky?
wutang112878 said:
Short sighted i agree. Frankly i have been enjoying watching J. Kidd fail and wanted to see if there was a potential trade for the Celtics to get that pick.
By ultimate heat check guy i mean when Green is 'on' he can take over a game with the best of them. But if hes not 'on' hes mediocre
Marc Stein this morning suggests a trade of Thad Young to Houston for Asik.
It's merely speculative but interesting nonetheless.
It's merely speculative but interesting nonetheless.
The Rockets have been trying to trade Asik since signing Howard. I'd be surprised if there's all that much return there.
Asik for Thad Young sounds about fair, although I'm not sure why either team would want to do that swap. Terrance Jones looks great, and does exactly what the Rockets need at the 4. Why do they want to add Young? I guess he's useful for them when they play Jones at the 5, and could still see 30 minutes a game there.
Asik for Thad Young sounds about fair, although I'm not sure why either team would want to do that swap. Terrance Jones looks great, and does exactly what the Rockets need at the 4. Why do they want to add Young? I guess he's useful for them when they play Jones at the 5, and could still see 30 minutes a game there.
I read somewhere that they have a 5 day window to trade Asik or something. If that's true, it should lower his value.
Devizier said:
I'm loving the Bass' resurgence, particularly in the past few weeks. He's making last season's nightmare look like a one year blip, and not a slide into unemployment.
Before this season, Bass was thought of as a significantly worse player than Ilyasova by most people. I was hardly making a controversial statement less than 3 weeks into the year.
Ilyasova of course has turned into pumpkin for the first 16 games he's played this season. Will be interesting to see if that continues.
Detailed piece by Stein & Windhorst on potential Asik trades before the Rocket's self-imposed Thursday deadline.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10156398/houston-rockets-track-trade-omer-asik-boston-celtics-emerging
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10156398/houston-rockets-track-trade-omer-asik-boston-celtics-emerging
I've soured on Boston picking up Asik for Green. It doesn't seem to help with any of the team's current goals. I'm not convinced that Asik will be an easier chip to trade down the road (primarily due to his contract). I am indifferent on how he'd impact the teams play over the next 1.5 seasons. These aren't contending years anyway.
If they'd really take Bass or Wallace, then sure. I'm sure we can flip Asik for a higher return than those guys, but I don't see Houston making that deal without 1st rounders. Some of our future 1st rounders might be late picks, but at least they're extremely liquid assets. I'd prefer to stockpile these so we'll be well positioned to take advantage of the next Harden/Thunder situation.
If they'd really take Bass or Wallace, then sure. I'm sure we can flip Asik for a higher return than those guys, but I don't see Houston making that deal without 1st rounders. Some of our future 1st rounders might be late picks, but at least they're extremely liquid assets. I'd prefer to stockpile these so we'll be well positioned to take advantage of the next Harden/Thunder situation.
The Celtics and 76ers are the two most active teams in the Asik trade talks, but the Cavaliers, Hawks and even the Knicks have also been mentioned. Brandon Bass might be the Rockets' target in a deal with Boston, while Spencer Hawes could be the target in a deal with Philadelphia, and any deal could involve three or more teams. If this ESPN.com report is correct, all of these variables will be sorted out within 48 hours.
Asik is a better rebounding/worse shooting '09-'10 Kendrick Perkins. The idea of giving up Green/Bass and maybe a 1st round pick as well for him is horrifying.
Brickowski said:
That's where I am too. In a vacuum I move Bass for Asik in a cocaine heartbeat. But we're not in a vacuum and there are two other considerations: (a) Giving up significant draft consideration is stupid given where we are in the success cycle and (b) Facilitating Sully's development is a major goal of the team this year and he and Asik are not a good pairing.
I still think exploring a Green to Cleveland trade makes the most sense. Forget about Asik.
I actually think the cap implications previously mentioned are also a big deal. The Celtics are a couple hundred grand under the tax currently. Adding any amount of salary probably isn't worth it, just because it has repeater consequences in future years.
I'm not in the Asik fanboy camp either. If the future is Asik and Austin Rivers then that is a bad future.
BigSoxFan said:
Step 2: Find three future Hall of Famers to play the 2-4 positions. It worked once!
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA43s
The Boston Celtics are gaining traction in talks to acquire Houston center Omer Asik, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
The Boston Celtics are gaining traction in talks to acquire Houston center Omer Asik, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
Well, the latest rumor is a Houston-Portland-Boston 3 way. As to which players are going where, it depends on which tweet you read.
Here's a deal that would make some sense: Bass and Bogans to Houston, Asik, $3M (from Houston) and Marshon Brooks to Portland, and a potpourri of Portland youngsters to Boston, whose collective salaries add up to less than $13 M (the combined salaries of Bass, Bogans and Brooks). Portland has some decent younger players, including Lopez ($5.2M), Robinson ($3.5M), Freeland ($3M), Dorrell Wright ($3M), $McCollum (2.3M), Leonard $2.2M) and Claver ($1.3M).
Here's a deal that would make some sense: Bass and Bogans to Houston, Asik, $3M (from Houston) and Marshon Brooks to Portland, and a potpourri of Portland youngsters to Boston, whose collective salaries add up to less than $13 M (the combined salaries of Bass, Bogans and Brooks). Portland has some decent younger players, including Lopez ($5.2M), Robinson ($3.5M), Freeland ($3M), Dorrell Wright ($3M), $McCollum (2.3M), Leonard $2.2M) and Claver ($1.3M).
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA21s
Serious talks on Boston-Houston package for Asik have included Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee and a 1st round pick, sources tell Yahoo.
Serious talks on Boston-Houston package for Asik have included Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee and a 1st round pick, sources tell Yahoo.
Would Asik be flipped in a bigger package involving Rondo down the road or is he somebody that will be sticking around? I can't see this guy at his salary(plus the large bonus) being a part of this team in the short-term.
I don't really like this deal unless its the Clippers pick and even then I'm not sure. Getting rid of Lee's deal is a plus. Getting rid of Bass is a plus in the longer term. But I don't really see Asik as a great fit for this team, in the short or long term. Will Sully guard 4s on the perimeter now? That should be interesting. It probably also means fewer minutes, or at least little hope of more minutes, for KO and Vitor. Maybe Asik can be flipped elsewhere?
Asik makes much more sense for Portland than he does for Boston. The Blazers are off to a great start and Asik could make them a very serious contender (if they aren't already). Meanwhile, some of Portland's youngsters make a lot of sense for Boston.
Bass, Lee and a first (even if protected) is way too much for Asik in my opinion.
Bass, Lee and a first (even if protected) is way too much for Asik in my opinion.
Jerry Flynn @gjflynn10m
My sources confirm Celtics to trade Bass, Lee & 1st Rounder to Houston for Center Asik - if Danny pulls this off he's the new RED!
Retweeted by BestofBSMW
Not sure who this dude is, but yea.
My sources confirm Celtics to trade Bass, Lee & 1st Rounder to Houston for Center Asik - if Danny pulls this off he's the new RED!
Retweeted by BestofBSMW
Not sure who this dude is, but yea.
Brickowski said:
Blazers are reportedly not interested in Asik.
http://www.csnnw.com/blazers/source-blazers-not-mix-asik
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA15m
Cleveland and Atlanta have faded significantly in discussions on Omer Asik, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
Cleveland and Atlanta have faded significantly in discussions on Omer Asik, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
If the deal is really Bass, Lee and a lesser of the first rounder picks than I'm fine with it. I hate watching Bass so much.
Adding Asik for Lee and Bass would cost an additional $2.5 million next year and reduce 2015/16's salary obligation by $5.6 million ($19 million total).
If the pick is lottery protected it's probably a good deal as 2015/16 is going to be the crucial year for the C's.
Much better than using Green.
If the pick is lottery protected it's probably a good deal as 2015/16 is going to be the crucial year for the C's.
Much better than using Green.
Well it's not the end of the world but I still think it's too much unless Ainge has a pretty good idea of what he wants to do with Asik going forward.
He wouldn't acquire somebody without having a pretty good idea of what he wants to do with him.Brickowski said:
If you look at the numbers that Jeff Van Gully posted earlier in this thread, you have just traded Bass, Lee and a protected first for a healthy (presumably)Turkish Kendrick Perkins.