Omer Asik

knucklecup

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Devizier said:
Bass isn't overpaid. He's paid exactly the amount that players like him get paid.
 
However, the teams that typically dole out those contracts are on-the-cusp contenders, which the Rockets clearly are not.
Morey has played his cards beautifully but they're definitely of the belief that they are contenders this year with Howard, and they'll make moves based upon this mindset.
 

knucklecup

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radsoxfan said:
 
I'd assume they can find something better than an overpaid, undersized PF who cant rebound or defend.
 
Even if Asik has close to zero value, which I doubt, they can get an expiring contract instead of being stuck paying 7 million bucks for someone they don't want in 2014-2015.
What Asik lacks offensively, Gortat has, and vice versa. He may be a different player than Asik but he's not a bad one or an overpaid one by any means.

Don't just assume. What possibilities are there for Asik if you think my proposal is so far off?
 

radsoxfan

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Devizier said:
Bass isn't overpaid. He's paid exactly the amount that players like him get paid.
 
However, the teams that typically dole out those contracts are on-the-cusp contenders, which the Rockets clearly are not.
 
Run-of-the-mill end of the bench players don't typically get multi year deals for 7M/season.
 
Bass may have once been worth something around the midlevel exception, but he hasn't been that guy recently.  
 

radsoxfan

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knucklecup said:
What Asik lacks offensively, Gortat has, and vice versa. He may be a different player than Asik but he's not a bad one or an overpaid one by any means.

Don't just assume. What possibilities are there for Asik if you think my proposal is so far off?
 
I think your proposal is off because getting Bass is not good. I don't think Houston would take him on their team, at his salary, for nothing.  It has nothing to do with what I think of Gortat.
 
I'm not saying I think Asik will fetch a huge package.  But he should get Houston at least something they want, even if its relatively minor.
 

wutang112878

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knucklecup said:
What Asik lacks offensively, Gortat has, and vice versa. He may be a different player than Asik but he's not a bad one or an overpaid one by any means.

Don't just assume. What possibilities are there for Asik if you think my proposal is so far off?
 
Are you talking about this proposal?
 
Boston gets: Omer Asik
Houston gets: Brandon Bass, MarShon Brooks
 
In that scenario whats the point for Houston?  Bass isnt much of an upgrade over Jones who is cheaper and is actually developing whereas Bass has played his best basketball. 
 
If they move Asik I would imagine they want to get some value in return, either value in future financial flexibility or basketball value.  Your Bass trade certainly doesnt bring them financial value.  I dont think they would do it, but I do wonder how Houston would react to an Asik/Lin for Humphries/Bass scenario, only because it sheds some salary for them so next year they could use the MLE without going over the luxury tax.  I dont think thats great value, but at least it provides them some value.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I still think some variation of the Ryan Anderson for Asik deal that was rumored this summer makes sense for both teams. Anthony Davis has come along much faster than anybody expected him to, and lineups with Anderson and Davis force Davis to guard 5s, which is less than ideal. They're in pretty serious need of a rim protector, unless they believe Jeff Withey is ready to give them 30 minutes a game, and have plenty of scoring options with Davis, Gordon, Holiday, and Evans. Meanwhile, Anderson's proven to be an effective stretch 4 alongside Dwight in the past, and the salaries work perfectly.
 

wutang112878

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Thats well thought out and actually helps both teams.  That would give the Pelicans (still cant believe thats a real name) a nice young core with Gordon, Davis and Asik all of whom havent played their best basketball.  I guess the only question mark for me is if Houston might want a 4 who can operate on the block, not that they are really easy to come by and maybe thats not an option they need.  If I was the coach, I would want someone besides Dwight to use down on the block
 

Devizier

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radsoxfan said:
 
Run-of-the-mill end of the bench players don't typically get multi year deals for 7M/season.
 
Bass may have once been worth something around the midlevel exception, but he hasn't been that guy recently.  
 
 
Well, Bass was a rotation guy on some pretty good playoff Celtics teams. But I think what you're saying is that he's mediocre. He certainly is, but I wouldn't put too much stock in his numbers so far this year. In case you haven't noticed, this year's Celtics are a complete shitshow.
 
Anyways, teams pay the midlevel exemption for Bass-level players all the time. Guys like Carl Landry and Ersan Ilyasova. The inefficiency is for the top guys, who are usually underpaid in their max contracts.
 
But all this is besides the point. A much younger Bass didn't work next to a much younger Howard in Houston Orlando and he isn't going to work now.
 

radsoxfan

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Devizier said:
 
Well, Bass was a rotation guy on some pretty good playoff Celtics teams. But I think what you're saying is that he's mediocre. He certainly is, but I wouldn't put too much stock in his numbers so far this year. In case you haven't noticed, this year's Celtics are a complete shitshow.
 
Anyways, teams pay the midlevel exemption for Bass-level players all the time. Guys like Carl Landry and Ersan Ilyasova. The inefficiency is for the top guys, who are usually underpaid in their max contracts.
 
I'm not saying he is mediocre.  He used to be mediocre.  He is currently bad.
 
Teams give mid-level deals to guys like Brandon Bass circa 2011.  Last season he was horrendous, and any team that scouted the Celtics would not want any part of him. Maybe Bass turns it around this year, who knows. But I don't see any reason for a team to assume last season (in what should have been his prime), was a fluke until proven otherwise.  
 
The current version of Brandon Bass has nothing in common with Carl Landry and Ersan Ilyasova.  Those guys both are legit rotation guys in the NBA. 
 

brohirrum

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Apr 3, 2013
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Thoughts on this trade...
 
Houston: Jeff Green (clippers 2015 1st)
Atl: Asik, Brooks (to make money work)
Celtics: L. Williams,(cunningham/$), flip with atl getting top of nets/atl pick.  
 
-Green is the ultimate heat check guy, coming off the bench he would be a huge weapon. Win now 
 
-ALT gets rim protector allowing Horford move to PF. Make a move for 3 seed.
 
-Celtics get chance to root against Nets even more, clear out salary, and can toss Williams in another trade down the line. 
 
Who says no?
 
 
money works with trade machine
 

JakeRae

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brohirrum said:
 
Thoughts on this trade...
 
Houston: Jeff Green (clippers 2015 1st)
Atl: Asik, Brooks (to make money work)
Celtics: L. Williams,(cunningham/$), flip with atl getting top of nets/atl pick.  
 
-Green is the ultimate heat check guy, coming off the bench he would be a huge weapon. Win now 
 
-ALT gets rim protector allowing Horford move to PF. Make a move for 3 seed.
 
-Celtics get chance to root against Nets even more, clear out salary, and can toss Williams in another trade down the line. 
 
Who says no?
 
 
money works with trade machine
 
 
The Hawks would say no right now on the chance that the Nets are as bad as they've started the season playing. Houston might also say no because Asik could probably get them a player who is a better fit than Green. The Celtics might say no because the Nets probably aren't this bad, and swapping pick 17 for pick 23 doesn't have a ton of value and Ainge may still be holding out hope he can develop Green into a more valuable asset than that.
 

wutang112878

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brohirrum said:
 
Thoughts on this trade...
 
Houston: Jeff Green (clippers 2015 1st)
Atl: Asik, Brooks (to make money work)
Celtics: L. Williams,(cunningham/$), flip with atl getting top of nets/atl pick.  
 
-Green is the ultimate heat check guy, coming off the bench he would be a huge weapon. Win now 
 
-ALT gets rim protector allowing Horford move to PF. Make a move for 3 seed.
 
-Celtics get chance to root against Nets even more, clear out salary, and can toss Williams in another trade down the line. 
 
Who says no?
 
 
money works with trade machine
 
 
For the Celts this seems short-sighted.  Right now it looks like that Nets pick might be pretty good and while that team is a mess, I think they have too much talent and leadership (KG&PP) to at least get to 500 by years end.  If thats the case for the Celts this trade might just be an useless exercise.
 
And what do you mean by Green is the ultimate heat check guy?  Do you just mean he is streaky?
 

brohirrum

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wutang112878 said:
 
For the Celts this seems short-sighted.  Right now it looks like that Nets pick might be pretty good and while that team is a mess, I think they have too much talent and leadership (KG&PP) to at least get to 500 by years end.  If thats the case for the Celts this trade might just be an useless exercise.
 
And what do you mean by Green is the ultimate heat check guy?  Do you just mean he is streaky?
 
Short sighted i agree. Frankly i have been enjoying watching J. Kidd fail and wanted to see if there was a potential trade for the Celtics to get that pick. 
 
By ultimate heat check guy i mean when Green is 'on' he can take over a game with the best of them. But if hes not 'on' hes mediocre  
 

Devizier

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Well, Thad Young sounds a lot like Jeff Green to me, minus the three point shooting.
 
My guess is that Asik's not really worth all that much in a trade.
 

bowiac

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The Rockets have been trying to trade Asik since signing Howard. I'd be surprised if there's all that much return there. 
 
Asik for Thad Young sounds about fair, although I'm not sure why either team would want to do that swap. Terrance Jones looks great, and does exactly what the Rockets need at the 4. Why do they want to add Young? I guess he's useful for them when they play Jones at the 5, and could still see 30 minutes a game there.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I read somewhere that they have a 5 day window to trade Asik or something. If that's true, it should lower his value.
 

Devizier

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radsoxfan said:
 
The current version of Brandon Bass has nothing in common with Carl Landry and Ersan Ilyasova.  Those guys both are legit rotation guys in the NBA. 
 
Just for kicks, we can keep this link alive.
 

radsoxfan

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Devizier said:
 
Just for kicks, we can keep this link alive.
 
I'm loving the Bass' resurgence, particularly in the past few weeks.  He's making last season's nightmare look like a one year blip, and not a slide into unemployment.
 
Before this season, Bass was thought of as a significantly worse player than Ilyasova by most people. I was hardly making a controversial statement less than 3 weeks into the year.
 
Ilyasova of course has turned into pumpkin for the first 16 games he's played this season.  Will be interesting to see if that continues.
 

67YAZ

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Detailed piece by Stein & Windhorst on potential Asik trades before the Rocket's self-imposed Thursday deadline.
 
 
One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward.
 
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10156398/houston-rockets-track-trade-omer-asik-boston-celtics-emerging
 

Jer

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I've soured on Boston picking up Asik for Green. It doesn't seem to help with any of the team's current goals. I'm not convinced that Asik will be an easier chip to trade down the road (primarily due to his contract). I am indifferent on how he'd impact the teams play over the next 1.5 seasons. These aren't contending years anyway.
 
If they'd really take Bass or Wallace, then sure. I'm sure we can flip Asik for a higher return than those guys, but I don't see Houston making that deal without 1st rounders. Some of our future 1st rounders might be late picks, but at least they're extremely liquid assets. I'd prefer to stockpile these so we'll be well positioned to take advantage of the next Harden/Thunder situation.
 

swingin val

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The Celtics and 76ers are the two most active teams in the Asik trade talks, but the Cavaliers, Hawks and even the Knicks have also been mentioned. Brandon Bass might be the Rockets' target in a deal with Boston, while Spencer Hawes could be the target in a deal with Philadelphia, and any deal could involve three or more teams. If this ESPN.com report is correct, all of these variables will be sorted out within 48 hours.
 

bowiac

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swingin val said:
The Celtics and 76ers are the two most active teams in the Asik trade talks, but the Cavaliers, Hawks and even the Knicks have also been mentioned. Brandon Bass might be the Rockets' target in a deal with Boston, while Spencer Hawes could be the target in a deal with Philadelphia, and any deal could involve three or more teams. If this ESPN.com report is correct, all of these variables will be sorted out within 48 hours.
Not that I care, but it's a bit weird to quote from rotoworld without quotation marks or attribution.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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Asik is a better rebounding/worse shooting '09-'10 Kendrick Perkins.  The idea of giving up Green/Bass and maybe a 1st round pick as well for him is horrifying. 
 
 

 
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Brickowski said:
I don't believe any of the rumors we've seen so far. Ainge isn't stupid.
 
That's where I am too.  In a vacuum I move Bass for Asik in a cocaine heartbeat.  But we're not in a vacuum and there are two other considerations: (a) Giving up significant draft consideration is stupid given where we are in the success cycle and (b) Facilitating Sully's development is a major goal of the team this year and he and Asik are not a good pairing.
 
I still think exploring a Green to Cleveland trade makes the most sense.  Forget about Asik.
 

bowiac

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I actually think the cap implications previously mentioned are also a big deal. The Celtics are a couple hundred grand under the tax currently. Adding any amount of salary probably isn't worth it, just because it has repeater consequences in future years.
 

Brickowski

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Well, the latest rumor is a Houston-Portland-Boston 3 way. As to which players are going where, it depends on which tweet you read.

Here's a deal that would make some sense: Bass and Bogans to Houston, Asik, $3M (from Houston) and Marshon Brooks to Portland, and a potpourri of Portland youngsters to Boston, whose collective salaries add up to less than $13 M (the combined salaries of Bass, Bogans and Brooks). Portland has some decent younger players, including Lopez ($5.2M), Robinson ($3.5M), Freeland ($3M), Dorrell Wright ($3M), $McCollum (2.3M), Leonard $2.2M) and Claver ($1.3M).
 

RedOctober3829

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Would Asik be flipped in a bigger package involving Rondo down the road or is he somebody that will be sticking around?  I can't see this guy at his salary(plus the large bonus) being a part of this team in the short-term.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I don't really like this deal unless its the Clippers pick and even then I'm not sure.  Getting rid of Lee's deal is a plus.  Getting rid of Bass is a plus in the longer term.  But I don't really see Asik as a great fit for this team, in the short or long term.  Will Sully guard 4s on the perimeter now?  That should be interesting.  It probably also means fewer minutes, or at least little hope of more minutes, for KO and Vitor.  Maybe Asik can be flipped elsewhere?
 

Brickowski

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Asik makes much more sense for Portland than he does for Boston. The Blazers are off to a great start and Asik could make them a very serious contender (if they aren't already). Meanwhile, some of Portland's youngsters make a lot of sense for Boston.

Bass, Lee and a first (even if protected) is way too much for Asik in my opinion.
 

Statman

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Brickowski said:
Asik makes much more sense for Portland than he does for Boston.
 
Blazers are reportedly not interested in Asik.
 
 
The Portland Trail Blazers are not involved in any talks centered on acquiring Houston Rockets center Omer Asik via trade, a league source informed CSNNW.com.
 
Portland owns the best record in the NBA and team chemistry is a big reason why. Adding a talent such as Asik to the mix would be a risk that is not worth taking, another source said who is briefed on the situation.
 
http://www.csnnw.com/blazers/source-blazers-not-mix-asik
 

swhskier

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For this Celtics team doesn't it boil down to Asik for a pick? Bass has played well, but the team better off long term with Sully and KO getting those minutes. And getting rid of the Lee contract is a bonus, not "too much".
 

ifmanis5

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If the deal is really Bass, Lee and a lesser of the first rounder picks than I'm fine with it. I hate watching Bass so much.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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Adding Asik for Lee and Bass would cost an additional $2.5 million next year and reduce 2015/16's salary obligation by $5.6 million ($19 million total). 
 
If the pick is lottery protected it's probably a good deal as 2015/16 is going to be the crucial year for the C's.
 
Much better than using Green.
 

Brickowski

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Well it's not the end of the world but I still think it's too much unless Ainge has a pretty good idea of what he wants to do with Asik going forward.
 

Brickowski

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If you look at the numbers that Jeff Van Gully posted earlier in this thread, you have just traded Bass, Lee and a protected first for a healthy (presumably)Turkish Kendrick Perkins.