NBA trade season

mcpickl

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As for Gordon Hayward, even if he doesn't sign one of those new supermax veteran erxtensions and hits unrestricted free agency, the Jazz can offer 5 years, $180 million. I believe other suitors are limited to 4 years, $132 million.
This is true, but I'd imagine if Hayward signs with Boston, or any other team but Utah, he'd sign a 4 year deal with an opt-out after three years. He'd have one less season locked in at the end, but assuming a 102M cap and a max deal, he'd be leaving less than 3M on the table over the first three years and be able to opt out and hit FA again at age 30 with a new team having his full Bird rights.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yup, but Ainge may need to decide by this offseason who to move. In making that decision he needs to decide if they're trying to win now or trying to win in 4-5 years. The pressure is going to be to win now. It's not clear that's possible.
Who is that pressure coming from? He is extremely secure in his job arguably the most secure of any GM in the league. He knows the types of talent he can upgrade this roster with over the next two drafts. Ainge has a history of being patient when it seems most around him are impatient. I don't expect him to make a desperation move when he is in such an enviable position.
 

Koufax

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I agree. If there was ever a time to make a move for the sake of making a move, it was last draft night when he had, it seemed, more picks than the rest of the league and held on to most of them. He's got two promising players stashed overseas, Jaylen Brown, and two Brkln first round picks coming right up. If he picks well the Celtics could be the team of the next decade.
 

Sprowl

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I agree. If there was ever a time to make a move for the sake of making a move, it was last draft night when he had, it seemed, more picks than the rest of the league and held on to most of them. He's got two promising players stashed overseas, Jaylen Brown, and two Brkln first round picks coming right up. If he picks well the Celtics could be the team of the next decade.
Not to mention two first round picks from Memphis (decent quality pick by 2019) and the LA Clippers (a lower quality pick by 2020, or possibly a distant assortment of oddments).

Ainge has shepherded his assets well. Thomas is two years too old for this team, so he'll probably be moving on before the Celtics get really good.
 

Apisith

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Thomas could be a viable bench guy by the time Brown and your new picks mature. I think the Celtics have a very strong hand, I wouldn't suggest trading the picks since the new CBA has made it very unlikely for players to move in free agency. You need to hit on the Nets pick and you'll be good for the next 10 years.
 

gammoseditor

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Who is that pressure coming from? He is extremely secure in his job arguably the most secure of any GM in the league. He knows the types of talent he can upgrade this roster with over the next two drafts. Ainge has a history of being patient when it seems most around him are impatient. I don't expect him to make a desperation move when he is in such an enviable position.
I certainly don't mean to imply Ainge has done a bad job. Just that the next step is the hardest and most important part.

And ownership can apply pressure without firing him. I agree he is very secure in his job.
 

nighthob

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Thomas could be a viable bench guy by the time Brown and your new picks mature. I think the Celtics have a very strong hand, I wouldn't suggest trading the picks since the new CBA has made it very unlikely for players to move in free agency. You need to hit on the Nets pick and you'll be good for the next 10 years.
The ship sailed on Thomas as a sixth man a long time ago. Lil' Zeke is a great player, but he's Iverson's Minime for better and worse. Boston's best case scenario is that they draft a player that can QB the offense immediately and then move Thomas and one of the other medium contracts (Bradley or Crowder) for an upgrade at the PF spot.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The thing is that this backlog will be alleviated by the decisions on who to pay and who to move. We aren't going to be extending Isaiah, Avery, AND Smart.
I've though for a while that the Celtics have to do something here, and I still have no idea what or how they make this move. A good case can be made for moving any one of them (or any two of them if they land a more talented guard in the draft as seems likely).
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
It is still not likely that they would extend all three, especially with a Fultz/Ball/Smith likely coming next year, but ownership has said that they will write the checks and get into the luxury tax area when/if they put together a championship caliber team. It is really going to depend on Danny's recommendation to them.

The team has been missing Avery very much since he has been out, Isaiah is the only one who can score on his own and if he doesn't take over the fourth they don't win, and Marcus is the best rebounder on the team it seems, and he is also a leader of the team.

A Marcus Smart for Nerlens Noel trade just makes so much sense right now.
 

BigSoxFan

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I would certainly do Smart for Noel but I doubt Philly would. If I'm Philly, I want to surround Simmons with a backcourt that can shoot. I'd rather have Bradley if I'm Colangelo and am entertaining offers for Noel.
 

Devizier

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I would certainly do Smart for Noel but I doubt Philly would. If I'm Philly, I want to surround Simmons with a backcourt that can shoot. I'd rather have Bradley if I'm Colangelo and am entertaining offers for Noel.
Given Noel's contract situation I don't see the Sixers getting any kind of offer that would entice them to trade him.
 

ElUno20

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No disrespect to Melo but if there was a way for the warriors to sweep the clippers in less than 4 games, trading for him would be the first step.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I know Carmelo has some elite skills but I cannot think of one reason for any team be it a contender, an almost-ran or otherwise, to trade for him. He is almost untradable at this point.
 

BigSoxFan

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I know Carmelo has some elite skills but I cannot think of one reason for any team be it a contender, an almost-ran or otherwise, to trade for him. He is almost untradable at this point.
How else are the Clippers going to add talent? I can see them trying it. Paul turns 32 in May. I can see the angle of adding Melo and going for it over the next 2-3 years. Likely wouldn't work but not sure what a better alternative is.
 

Kliq

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Melo could be an asset to a team that needs scoring, even though he's just past his prime he can still give you 30 on any given night. The problem is that he has never shown himself to be a winner in the NBA and it hasn't always been his fault but for a player as gifted as he is, he hasn't done much in the NBA Playoffs. Even playing in a weak Eastern Conference the Knicks have struggled to make the playoffs consistently while he was their best player. At this point in his career it is hard to see him going through a metamorphosis and becoming a prominent role player like Jamal Crawford or even Wade. The Knicks 100 percent should trade him and cut their losses because it isn't helping Kristaps to not get any crunch time reps because Anthony is hogging the ball. I think in theory he can tip a good team in the right direction but if you examine his entire career it would take a big 180 for him to find that role.
 

ElUno20

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How else are the Clippers going to add talent? I can see them trying it. Paul turns 32 in May. I can see the angle of adding Melo and going for it over the next 2-3 years. Likely wouldn't work but not sure what a better alternative is.
But there isnt anything to go for with Melo. You're turning rivers and Crawford, one on one non-playmakers, into him while losing the ability to space the floor (Reddick). It's a completely stupid trade with a capital STUPID. Which is probably why Doc is considering it.

Not to mention the clippers have no real depth so just physically going from 3 players to 2 is also a huge detriment. Just all around dumb move.
 

moly99

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The Melo thing is weird, because he blatantly chose money and New York over winning. If he really wanted a ring, he made a really stupid decision signing a mega contract with a disaster of a franchise.

At this point he is almost unmoveable. He does not make sense on any of the contenders, and moving to a team like the Lakers would just be a lateral move.
 

jon abbey

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Melo is actually a good fit on the current Clippers team, and if this was baseball, where NY could trade him to LAC for prospects without having to match salary, it would make a ton of sense all around.

I have said for years and years that he is best suited to be the third best player on a title contender as opposed to the franchise player he has always slotted himself in as/been slotted in as. 3rd best guy on a title team is still usually an All-Star: Ray Allen, Chris Bosh, Klay Thompson, Kevin Love. I think Melo is potentially more adaptable to this kind of role than his detractors think, but he ideally needed to be in this situation at least a couple of years ago.

As it is, I think Crawford/Rivers for him is probably close to a lateral move, especially factoring in the chemistry LAC would be giving up. On the other hand, Melo hasn't played with a competent PG since Billups in DEN (Kidd was great for a half season in NY before he hit a wall, which ended his career soon after), and that could really help him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Melo thing is weird, because he blatantly chose money and New York over winning. If he really wanted a ring, he made a really stupid decision signing a mega contract with a disaster of a franchise.
There is more to ones life than his job. Is it weird that he put his family first and made his wife's career and their marriage a priority? She wanted/needed to be in New York. When you step back and look at his decision it is actually pretty admirable of the man.

Or he's whipped. :)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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As it is, I think Crawford/Rivers for him is probably close to a lateral move, especially factoring in the chemistry LAC would be giving up. On the other hand, Melo hasn't played with a competent PG since Billups in DEN (Kidd was great for a half season in NY before he hit a wall, which ended his career soon after), and that could really help him.
Not just any PG but one he actually has a relationship with. It'snot out of the question that if traded to the Clippers, Melo puts everything into this one run for a championship - kind of like the Lakers getting Bob McAdoo back in what, 1981?
 

cheech13

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If the cost is truly just Rivers and Crawford (and not Reddick, too) you run to the phone and call in that deal. Melo isn't what he used to be, but he's still a very good player and solves the Clippers long-time problem on the wing. He has flaws but people are underestimating his ability because he's been stuck in that tire fire of a franchise.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If the cost is truly just Rivers and Crawford (and not Reddick, too) you run to the phone and call in that deal. Melo isn't what he used to be, but he's still a very good player and solves the Clippers long-time problem on the wing. He has flaws but people are underestimating his ability because he's been stuck in that tire fire of a franchise.
I'd take the gamble for sure if I were the Clips; I agree he is still a valuable player in the abstract. But keep in mind the issue isn't just talent, it's role and ego...we have no idea whether Carmelo is willing to be what Clips would want (one of three alphas, and perhaps third of the three). The NY experience this year is not altogether promising, but the context is very dfiferent.
 

cheech13

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I think the ego thing might be misplaced. He's made very bad business decisions and I worry about the type of people in his inner circle but has that affected him on court? Those Nuggets teams were good until the relationship with Karl imploded and based on what I've heard from Karl since I'm not so sure I wouldn't take Carmelo's side in their rocky relationship. Things started out ok in NY but now he's miscast as an aging vet on a rebuilding team.

I just remember how Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce weren't regarded as the types of players that could win a championship until they did.
 

CreightonGubanich

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I think there's a case to be made for the Celtics to pursue a Carmelo deal. It all depends on the price, but there's no way NY is getting Jaylen Brown or a Brooklyn pick for Melo. If the deal involves a late first round pick, a prospect like Terry Rozier, and some salary filler, why not? A team built around Isaiah, Horford and Anthony has a puncher's chance to knock off Cleveland, and you don't sacrifice your future building blocks. It lets you capitalize on Thomas' and Horford's primes, while building for a post-Lebron Eastern Conference.

Is that better than sacrificing both Brooklyn picks for somebody like Jimmy Butler? I think it might be.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think there's a case to be made for the Celtics to pursue a Carmelo deal. It all depends on the price, but there's no way NY is getting Jaylen Brown or a Brooklyn pick for Melo. If the deal involves a late first round pick, a prospect like Terry Rozier, and some salary filler, why not? A team built around Isaiah, Horford and Anthony has a puncher's chance to knock off Cleveland, and you don't sacrifice your future building blocks. It lets you capitalize on Thomas' and Horford's primes, while building for a post-Lebron Eastern Conference.

Is that better than sacrificing both Brooklyn picks for somebody like Jimmy Butler? I think it might be.
I think the main issue is the remaining term on Melo's
Deal.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think the main issue is the remaining term on Melo's
Deal.
Only real issue is if you think you can get something better for the cap space. And given the CBA, I'm not convinced we will but we'll see. Ainge has already nixed the deal.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think the ego thing might be misplaced. He's made very bad business decisions and I worry about the type of people in his inner circle but has that affected him on court? Those Nuggets teams were good until the relationship with Karl imploded and based on what I've heard from Karl since I'm not so sure I wouldn't take Carmelo's side in their rocky relationship. Things started out ok in NY but now he's miscast as an aging vet on a rebuilding team.

I just remember how Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce weren't regarded as the types of players that could win a championship until they did.
I see the opposite in Carmelo's career, actually. He pushed his way out of a pretty good basketball situation in Denver to be in a bigger market (so, all about ego) and then has been largely a diva in NY. A very good player, mind you, but still someone very focused on his role and public persona. Now, he's failed to transition comfortably into the 'experienced veteran leader' role and is a bad enough fit that the team is actively trying to dump him.

I don't think anyone thoughtful ever believed Garnett was not the type of player who could win a championship. I do think Pierce went through a stretch in the doldrums where he approached Carmelo's level of distraction...but he was not that way before or after. That's pretty different than Carmelo's track record I think.

Talent-wise, he'd help the Celtics and the Clips. But their reactions suggest they see the same pattern I do in his behavior doesn't it?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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For reference, he makes $25 mil over the next two seasons. Puts a dent in FA possibilities, though this summer doesn't present many beyond Hayward and the longshot Griffin (who is a walking injury question mark anyway).
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
12.25 and 12.75 million for the next two years for Vooch. A steal of a contract, but he may block the Cs from making additional moves, such as maxing a player this offseason.

How much more would he cost that the Celts 2018 first round pick and Rozier? Kelly or Amir to match salaries? Kelly is a much more valuable asset.
 

Eddie Jurak

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12.25 and 12.75 million for the next two years for Vooch. A steal of a contract, but he may block the Cs from making additional moves, such as maxing a player this offseason.

How much more would he cost that the Celts 2018 first round pick and Rozier? Kelly or Amir to match salaries? Kelly is a much more valuable asset.
At that money he is easily tradeable.
 

BigSoxFan

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12.25 and 12.75 million for the next two years for Vooch. A steal of a contract, but he may block the Cs from making additional moves, such as maxing a player this offseason.

How much more would he cost that the Celts 2018 first round pick and Rozier? Kelly or Amir to match salaries? Kelly is a much more valuable asset.
He's probably better than any player we could possibly get in FA.
 

JCizzle

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He's probably better than any player we could possibly get in FA.
Hayward, but he's probably unrealistic unless Brad has some weird pull over him that would make him take less money to play on a comparable team. It ain't Butler anymore
 

Big John

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There is no way I'm giving up Olynyk for Vucevic, who makes Olynyk look like an all-NBA defender. In fact, after watching tonight's game, the the only Magic player who interests me in the slightest is Damjan Rudez.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Yeah this has to be a salary dump type move for Orlando before I'm on board. Kelly plays an important role here.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Yeah this has to be a salary dump type move for Orlando before I'm on board. Kelly plays an important role here.
But, is Kelly really part of the future in Boston? He'll get a 4 year 60M - 70M deal possibly in the offseason. Danny isn't going to tie that money down with him. Wow, that money could really happen for him.
 

Devizier

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But, is Kelly really part of the future in Boston? He'll get a 4 year 60M - 70M deal possibly in the offseason. Danny isn't going to tie that money down with him. Wow, that money could really happen for him.
Hard to believe, but someone could give him that Mahinmi contract.
 

bowiac

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Vucevic has value cause of that contract, but he's a real step back in terms of both overall talent and fit relative to Olynyk. I'd pass on him.
 

Devizier

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Crawford is close to worthless this season and Rivers has never been much more than. I don't see why the Clippers shouldn't make this move.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Vucevic has value cause of that contract, but he's a real step back in terms of both overall talent and fit relative to Olynyk. I'd pass on him.
Can you expand on your comment? Kelly plays 20 minutes a game over the season, in January it is still under 22. I understand Kelly spaces the floor and has the three point shot. But the celts are shooting threes at an unprecedented rate in their history with him only playing that many minutes and taking three three point attempts per game.

Vooch would come in and play 27 a game at least, and fill the number one need the C's have versus good teams, both today and in the next two years he is signed under that very cheap contract. I'm not in love with Vooch, but I don't see Kelly as a better fit than he. But a "real step back in terms of overall fit and talent relative to Olynyk." Fit, maybe, if the Celts had a rebounder and rim protector, but talent, proof is in the pudding. Vooch has far more talent than Kelly.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Can you expand on your comment? Kelly plays 20 minutes a game over the season, in January it is still under 22. I understand Kelly spaces the floor and has the three point shot. But the celts are shooting threes at an unprecedented rate in their history with him only playing that many minutes and taking three three point attempts per game.

Vooch would come in and play 27 a game at least, and fill the number one need the C's have versus good teams, both today and in the next two years he is signed under that very cheap contract. I'm not in love with Vooch, but I don't see Kelly as a better fit than he. But a "real step back in terms of overall fit and talent relative to Olynyk." Fit, maybe, if the Celts had a rebounder and rim protector, but talent, proof is in the pudding. Vooch has far more talent than Kelly.
Kelly is 25.