NBA trade season

moondog80

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Turning the 6th pick in the draft into the 19th + Anderson is bad math.
We (myself included) place way too much meaning on where a player was drafted. That Noel was the 6th pick is irrelevant, especially if it was four years ago. All that matters is his value today. Part of Belichick's genius is his willingness ignore draft pedigree and bench a 1st rounder if an undrafted rookie is outplaying him.
 

Bob420

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Jrue was traded for Noel and the 1st used to take Payton which was then traded for Saric and another late 1st. Not so bad.
 

Cellar-Door

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Every Noel conversation seems to turn into a Noel fan saying:
1. He's really good he is/was worth more.
2. Nobody was going to make him a big $ offer.

Those things aren't likely to both be true, if teams value him to trade for they must value him for just money. If nobody values him for a big money offer.... then they sure as shit aren't trading much for him.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Every Noel conversation seems to turn into a Noel fan saying:
1. He's really good he is/was worth more.
2. Nobody was going to make him a big $ offer.

Those things aren't likely to both be true, if teams value him to trade for they must value him for just money. If nobody values him for a big money offer.... then they sure as shit aren't trading much for him.
No, every Noel conversation involves one group saying he's going to get maxed out, and another group saying he'll get market value. There's a difference there.
 

Cellar-Door

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No, every Noel conversation involves one group saying he's going to get maxed out, and another group saying he'll get market value. There's a difference there.
Market value is what? Biyombo money? Mahinmi money? Lowe says everyone assumes he'll get a near max offer. If his trade value for just his matching rights is supposedly worth so much, how does that square with nobody making a major offer in FA? It doesn't. Now if the argument was that he was so valuable that Philly should keep him and match any offer? Fine. I think it's dumb when you have Embiid, because his trade value goes to near nothing as you pay him big money to come off the bench.
 

LondonSox

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I would have kept Noel. More importantly trading Noel means he likely keeps Okafor. And fuck that.

Also the deal is 2 seconds, the first 1-18 protected is for headlines. Which fuck you. Screw the headlines, this is trying to lie to stupid people
 

cheech13

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I would have kept Noel. More importantly trading Noel means he likely keeps Okafor. And fuck that.

Also the deal is 2 seconds, the first 1-18 protected is for headlines. Which fuck you. Screw the headlines, this is trying to lie to stupid people
Yes two seconds is much different than a first and the headlines should reflect that. That being said, I've heard rumblings that 2nd round picks might increase in value going forward because of the new two-way D-League contracts that are being introduced in the new CBA.
 

Cellar-Door

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I would have kept Noel. More importantly trading Noel means he likely keeps Okafor. And fuck that.

Also the deal is 2 seconds, the first 1-18 protected is for headlines. Which fuck you. Screw the headlines, this is trying to lie to stupid people
I like it a lot less now that the 2 seconds came out, I thought it would be 1-18 then top 10 or something.
Okafor has no value, if they plan to keep him and play him, yeah that sucks. If they are still trying to move him either now or at the draft... meh. I don't think anyone should tie the two together. To me the best move has always been for them to trade both if they didn't think Noel and Embiid can share the floor. Halfway there.
 

nighthob

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League rules. It's the one place he can't go
I'm not sure about the Warriors, I know he can't go to the Mavs. Technically he was on the Golden State roster this calendar season before the trade to Dallas, and I'm not sure whether the no return rule applies only to the team that traded him or all teams that he was rostered on for that calendar year.
 

E5 Yaz

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I'm not sure about the Warriors, I know he can't go to the Mavs. Technically he was on the Golden State roster this calendar season before the trade to Dallas, and I'm not sure whether the no return rule applies only to the team that traded him or all teams that he was rostered on for that calendar year.
I should have added that it was addressed on SC, and Windhorst said he couldn't go back to GS
 

bowiac

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For example, If Kawhi Leonard had been drafted by a franchise like the Kings or the JaVale McGee era Wizards, I'd be shocked if he were anything but an athletic body at the SG/SF/PF spots. It was ending up on a vet team with the coaching infrastructure in place that allowed him to reach his ceiling.
I keep hearing this Kawhi example, and I don't get it. Kawhi was a great prospect who slipped to the Spurs because the Spurs are smarter than everyone else. For example, James Brocato, now runs the Mavericks analytics group, had Kawhi ranked 2nd in that draft (also had Jimmy Butler ranked 7th fwiw).

We'll never know, but even bad organizations develop good players; they just rarely have good players in the first place. Kawhi is known to be a hard worker, and nobody thinks he's a knucklehead, so the idea that he was doomed to be just an athletic body strikes me as very strange.

I'm not saying talent development differentials doesn't exist between teams, but a lot of these examples of "so and so could only have succeeded in this one situation" seem like cases of just underrating prospects to me. In a lot of these cases, external measures confirm that the player was always a good prospect (two more examples would be Draymond and Crowder, who Brocato had as lottery picks at the time).
 

cheech13

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I'm not sure about the Warriors, I know he can't go to the Mavs. Technically he was on the Golden State roster this calendar season before the trade to Dallas, and I'm not sure whether the no return rule applies only to the team that traded him or all teams that he was rostered on for that calendar year.
If bought out a player can't return to any team he played for the in the previous calendar year. For instance, Anderson Varejao just became eligible to resign with the Cavs this week even though he was bought out by Portland then signed by Golden State on two separate occasions.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Edit: In reply to Cellar Door.

I'll believe a max or near max offer for Noel when I see it. Last offseason, RFA Centers got the following:

Ezeli -- 2/$16
Boban -- 3/$21
Plumlee -- 4/$50
Leonard -- 4/$41

In fact, in the last two offseasons Drummond and Enes Kanter are the only two bigs who have gotten max deals in RFA. And Kanter only got his because of the cap jump which made it an overpay for a season. Noel's max would start at $23 million a year.
 

cheech13

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Edit: In reply to Cellar Door.

I'll believe a max or near max offer when I see it. Last offseason, RFA Centers got the following:

Ezeli -- 2/$16
Boban -- 3/$21
Plumlee -- 4/$50
Leonard -- 4/$41

In fact, in the last two offseasons Drummond and Enes Kanter are the only two bigs who have gotten max deals in RFA. And Kanter only got his because of the cap jump which made it an overpay for a season.
There's also a weird game of chicken that goes on with RFAs. I'm guessing that had Noel stayed with Philly he would have gotten a big offer because teams would have gambled on the idea that the Sixers would let him go with Embiid and Okafor in the mix. Dallas is going to match everything most likely so that will significantly suppress his market.
 

moondog80

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mauf

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I would have kept Noel. More importantly trading Noel means he likely keeps Okafor. And fuck that.

Also the deal is 2 seconds, the first 1-18 protected is for headlines. Which fuck you. Screw the headlines, this is trying to lie to stupid people
Is that what the fine print says? I was just wondering that myself -- obviously, the Mavs are going to be drafting in the top 18 this summer.

The Sixers are a couple years away from contending for a playoff spot; there's no need to sell low on Okafor. The return on Noel is disappointing, but Colangelo is competent enough that I'm sure he worked the phones and determined that this was the best offer available; if he had decided not to match an offer sheet for Noel this summer, why not take what he can get?
 

E5 Yaz

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If that's an underwhelming trade for OKC, then more Bingo chances open up
 

cheech13

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Rockets dumped Tyler Ennis on the Lakers and KJ McDaniels on the Nets. Clearing money and roster spots so there must be someone they are targeting on the buyout market?
 

nighthob

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That's a nice move by the raptors. Damn. Woulda loved him for celtics.
With Smart, Bradley, Crowder, and the emergence of Brown, there wasn't a lot of playing time here for Tucker. If they'd traded two of those guys in a Butler or George trade, then there would have been a need for him here.
 

cheech13

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Mavs buying out Deron Williams. Cavs? Jazz?

EDIT: David Aldridge says that he's expected to join the Cavs.
 
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LondonSox

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I like it a lot less now that the 2 seconds came out, I thought it would be 1-18 then top 10 or something.
Okafor has no value, if they plan to keep him and play him, yeah that sucks. If they are still trying to move him either now or at the draft... meh. I don't think anyone should tie the two together. To me the best move has always been for them to trade both if they didn't think Noel and Embiid can share the floor. Halfway there.
I agree some, but they played Embiid and Noel together for 8 minutes. Total. Ever.

Edit: In reply to Cellar Door.

I'll believe a max or near max offer for Noel when I see it. Last offseason, RFA Centers got the following:

Ezeli -- 2/$16
Boban -- 3/$21
Plumlee -- 4/$50
Leonard -- 4/$41

In fact, in the last two offseasons Drummond and Enes Kanter are the only two bigs who have gotten max deals in RFA. And Kanter only got his because of the cap jump which made it an overpay for a season. Noel's max would start at $23 million a year.
For that return keep him and see. I think he gets a big deal as someone will figure out he's good. But if not. Great keep him. Embiid and Noel give you 48 minutes of athletic center play and rim protection. Foul trouble protection and maybe need to play together for 10 minutes a game or less.

Is that what the fine print says? I was just wondering that myself -- obviously, the Mavs are going to be drafting in the top 18 this summer.

The Sixers are a couple years away from contending for a playoff spot; there's no need to sell low on Okafor. The return on Noel is disappointing, but Colangelo is competent enough that I'm sure he worked the phones and determined that this was the best offer available; if he had decided not to match an offer sheet for Noel this summer, why not take what he can get?
The sixers are coming together as a fast pace, ball movement, extra pass tough defensive team.
Okafor is.... Slow, bad at passing, bad defensively and fits nothing they are doing. He had to go
 

mauf

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The sixers are coming together as a fast pace, ball movement, extra pass tough defensive team.
Okafor is.... Slow, bad at passing, bad defensively and fits nothing they are doing. He had to go
You'd know better than me whether Okafor is messing up the Sixers' chemistry.

If they need to flush the toilet, they can do that in the summer. With Noel gone and Embiid still nursing an injury, Okafor is probably useful as a warm body for the next 25 games, and he can only help his trade value at this point.
 

LondonSox

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I feel playing Embiid and Noel together in spots this year would have been useful and the right to match isn't worth nothing. Sure if someone offers the max, you lose out. But if no one takes a run on him, he's the perfect bench big that you cna afford to overpay.

I just also don't want to watch okafor play