A failure relative to the expectations. But I still pay him over Barry Zito in that starting pitching market 10 times out of 10.foulkehampshire said:
MLB Hot Stove Rumours Thread
- Thread starter absintheofmalaise
- Start date
Since the QO system started, not a single player has accepted the offer. While it might seem like common sense for players such as Cuddyer or Liriano to take it, there appears to be such universal mistrust in it from the MLBPA that those in this category likely don't even consider taking the offer to be a realistic option
@MLBNetworkRadio: .@JimBowden_ESPN on "Inside Pitch": "@Mariners have to be considered the frontrunners right now for Hanley Ramirez. @RedSox a distant 2nd."
All 12 players refuse respective qualifying offers.
link http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/players-to-reject-the-qualifying-offer.html
link http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/players-to-reject-the-qualifying-offer.html
Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
I think this move reflects a larger industry shift away from hoarding prospects and young players. Billy Beane, for instance, traded a top prospect for a pitcher he knows he won't have longterm. And Russell is arguably more valuable than a mid-first-round pick next spring.
I agree it's an odd move, but I also think the Mets are closer to contention than maybe people realized. I also think the Royals-Giants World Series emboldened a lot of teams on the fringes of contention. So I guess I can understand it on some level.
RedOctober3829 said:
That is a really risky move. There is no place for him to play there other than SS, and I'm not sure anyone thinks he's got a lot of years left as an effective SS. Maybe they think they can switch Seager and Hanley if necessary?
Not sure how much stock to put in this one, but for what it's worth, Joel Sherman reports that the Yankees are "intrigued" by trading for Elvis Andrus.
That's kindof the point though isn't it?E5 Yaz said:
Almost identical AVG and OBP, but you lose 60 points in slugging and half your HRs because of the ballpark.
If you had similar offers from two teams and one of them meant you lose a bunch of HRs every year I would think that could easily sway a decision.
HRs have a big impact on future earnings and HOF credentials.
EDIT: and individual awards like Silver slugger, MVP etc.
Regarding Cuddyer, I read somewhere that the Mets signing Cuddyer and giving the Rockies their pick could essentially be 'trading their first round pick' along with a package for Tulo. Yeah, this is insane, but it is the Mets. Though it would be like the Mets to sign Cuddyer anyways, so....
So only position players getting 10 year, quarter billion dollar contracts want to hit there then?E5 Yaz said:
I think this off season seems like it's going to be very fast paced. Cuddyer must have been the fastest signed big name free agent in recent memory.The pitching market will be slower to develop but I doubt Boston wastes much time with Panda. The only reason they are second on Hanley right now is because of Panda and the fact they're waiting on him. That's my take. Once Panda comes off the board the market will materialize.soxhop411 said:
Lowrielicious said:
We're talking past each other. The point was about Cano and you brought up home runs. It has nothing to do with anything else. Hitters will see it's possible to perform well there, regardless of the power numbers.
That's all I got. Moving on
And my point is that HR totals and SLG are absolutely part of performing well.E5 Yaz said:
Rizzo missed out on the silver slugger due to low RBI totals compared to gonzalez (and possibly in part due to team performance) despite being the far superior hitter.
If you take a cutback on your HR totals because of your home park you can expect to take a similar hit in awards, All star selection, bonuses, future contracts and HOF credentials.
moondog80 said:
So just all the other stuff applies to Cano and Hanley (IF he gets 7 years) then.
I'm fairly sure All star selection, individual awards and HOF are not insignificant factors for elite MLB players.
I thought the new GM of my Rockies, Bridich, was crazy for making the QO to Cuddyer: "no one will sign him for more than that and give up a pick."
Balsy move that worked out. Bridich just won a Texas hold em' hand by bluffing with the equivalent of an unsuited 3 and 5 in the hole
Balsy move that worked out. Bridich just won a Texas hold em' hand by bluffing with the equivalent of an unsuited 3 and 5 in the hole
Danny_Darwin said:
The Yankees love trading for the Rangers' overpaid SSs.
Julius.R said:
The Rockies don't get their pick. The Mets just lose the pick.
Or had some pretty good insider info (from the player?) that the Mets were hot for him. I thought it a slam dunk he'd take the QO.Sox and Rocks said:
It's stuff like this that completely ruins game theory.
There was an article by Dave Cameron on Fangraphs discussing the Cuddyer move and how it may signal the Mets are going to make some other potentially big moves (mentioned Mets as dark horse for Tulo due to pitching prospects).He discussed how 15th overall picks aren't all that often top 50 prospects, and attempted to assign a dollar value to the pick.
Put me in the Mets as contenders in the near future camp and will be stealing Yankee headlines shortly. The Phillies aren't going anywhere. The Marlins are middling until the Stanton situation is resolved. The Braves appear to be shopping their big bats (with an already poor offense). They've been set back due to all the injuries of the rotation and have a bunch of question marks.
Harvey, DeGrom, Niese, Syndergaard and maybe one other FA signing and that's a nice rotation, with a decent lineup.
Put me in the Mets as contenders in the near future camp and will be stealing Yankee headlines shortly. The Phillies aren't going anywhere. The Marlins are middling until the Stanton situation is resolved. The Braves appear to be shopping their big bats (with an already poor offense). They've been set back due to all the injuries of the rotation and have a bunch of question marks.
Harvey, DeGrom, Niese, Syndergaard and maybe one other FA signing and that's a nice rotation, with a decent lineup.
grimshaw said:
You forgot Wheeler, but I think your point stands, as they could easily trade one of those guys in a package for Tulo or another middle infielder (Castro? Andrus?) even if they only sign someone in the Liriano/Santana tier.
^ At least he had the same WAR as Butler last year, but made 4 times as much. Such a god awful contract. I would think they'd have to eat all but about 10-15 mill of that remaining salary and move someone with use. Except they don't have anyone of use except Hamels.
The 4 positional players above 2 WAR last year are Utley (NTC and not moving), Rollins (1 year on his contract), Ruiz (former PED user), and Ben Revere.
Rollins may be one of their few chips. Revere is Slappy McSlapperson and just average defensively.
What a shitty team.
The 4 positional players above 2 WAR last year are Utley (NTC and not moving), Rollins (1 year on his contract), Ruiz (former PED user), and Ben Revere.
Rollins may be one of their few chips. Revere is Slappy McSlapperson and just average defensively.
What a shitty team.
Cubs talking to Nats about Jordan Zimmerman per Cubs beat writer.
Sun-Times Sports @suntimes_sports · 15m15 minutes ago
SOURCES: #Cubs in talks to acquire RHP Jordan Zimmermann from #Nationals, @GDubCub reports: http://sun-tim.es/1u8Qefa
Sun-Times Sports @suntimes_sports · 15m15 minutes agoSOURCES: #Cubs in talks to acquire RHP Jordan Zimmermann from #Nationals, @GDubCub reports: http://sun-tim.es/1u8Qefa
PHOENIX The Cubs arent waiting around for Jon Lester to make a splash this winter for frontline starting pitching.
Multiple sources said Tuesday the Cubs are in talks with the Washington Nationals to acquire right-hander Jordan Zimmermann, a two-time All-Star who has averaged 200 innings over the past three seasons.
And hes just one of several All-Star caliber pitchers along with All-Star catcher Russell Martin the Cubs believe they can acquire if their strategy plays out according to plan, said one source.
http://chicagosuntimes.com/sports/sources-cubs-in-talks-to-acquire-jordan-zimmermann-from-nationals/
Link says they want Zimmerman and Lester. Justin Masterson on a low cost 1-year deal too.
Multiple sources said Tuesday the Cubs are in talks with the Washington Nationals to acquire right-hander Jordan Zimmermann, a two-time All-Star who has averaged 200 innings over the past three seasons.
And hes just one of several All-Star caliber pitchers along with All-Star catcher Russell Martin the Cubs believe they can acquire if their strategy plays out according to plan, said one source.
http://chicagosuntimes.com/sports/sources-cubs-in-talks-to-acquire-jordan-zimmermann-from-nationals/
Link says they want Zimmerman and Lester. Justin Masterson on a low cost 1-year deal too.
He's a free agent in 2016 and speculation he wants to go home to Wisconsin, which of course is close to Chicago.DrewDawg said:
loshjott said:
Plus, if they can get a package built around a player like Addison Russell, they'd have to consider it.
Does it? They've got TV money coming in, and no big payroll commitments. They can afford both Lester and a theoretical Zimmermann extension.soxhop411 said:
These GM meetings have pretty much shown how flooded the pitching market is with names available in trades (Latos, Leake, Zimmerman, maybe Buchholz). I don't think these prices are going to be all that steep compared to years past via trade considering the pitching boom. If anything, it really boosts Cespedes' value and would probably tempt the Red Sox to move him.
OTOH, Stanton is going to cost two Mack trucks, and Tulo/Cargo a minivan. No wonder the Braves are floating their outfield and Gattis.
OTOH, Stanton is going to cost two Mack trucks, and Tulo/Cargo a minivan. No wonder the Braves are floating their outfield and Gattis.
I would think the Cubs would be more willing to move Russell than Baez. Baez's bat speed is out of this world and his power at short or second would be at or very near the top of the league right now. I doubt Theo is interested in discussing him. Castro, maybe, but not Baez.Papelbon's Poutine said:
If he can manage a league average OBP for a shortstop while hitting 25-30 home runs, they aren't going to care about the strikeouts.
But they might think he'll be unable to do that. His walk rate isn't particularly good, even in the minors and his contact % was 59 last season. That's nuts.
He'll improve on that, but it's a question of how long until he does. He's not going to even come to close to his potential until he does, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised Theo thought there was more value in moving him now because he wants to compete in 2015.
He'll improve on that, but it's a question of how long until he does. He's not going to even come to close to his potential until he does, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised Theo thought there was more value in moving him now because he wants to compete in 2015.