Marcus Smart: 4 year, $77 million extension

Fishy1

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I disagree on the bolded, as it pertains to this particular team. When you have Tatum and Brown as the focal points of your offense, I don't see why you want your point guard taking a ton of shots or looking to create for himself. I agree that Smart is the better passer. He's also the better catch-and-shoot option. Even if they're not running the offense through Brown and Tatum, those guys are going to have the ball a ton. The choice here should be about defense, and who complements the Jays better on offense. I think that's Smart, especially because going bigger at the PG spot allows you to run a switch-everything defense, which I think Brown and Tatum are suited for.

I'd much rather see Schroder in the Lou Williams role, surrounded by shooters and running a ton of pick-and-roll.
I guess I have a different vision of the offense. I'm hoping that having a point guard who can actually penetrate will produce more catch-and-shoot opportunities for Jaylen and Jayson, and I'm not sure the best thing for the team is Jaylen and Jayson trying to make plays for others. Jaylen is a bad playmaker, and Jayson isn't great shakes yet either: Tatum is an incredible shot-maker, obviously, but he deserves more catch-and-shoot opportunities, and last year's team really, really struggled to get him those shots because they couldn't put other teams into rotation. None of the guards could force the defense to collapse on them in the paint with any consistency.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Schroder is in the 10-13 shots per game range. I don't want him taking 15, 16 shots a game. I just would prefer the point guard be able to actually force the defense to pay attention to him when he gets inside the arc.
 

CreightonGubanich

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I guess I have a different vision of the offense. I'm hoping that having a point guard who can actually penetrate will produce more catch-and-shoot opportunities for Jaylen and Jayson, and I'm not sure the best thing for the team is Jaylen and Jayson trying to make plays for others. Jaylen is a bad playmaker, and Jayson isn't great shakes yet either: Tatum is an incredible shot-maker, obviously, but he deserves more catch-and-shoot opportunities, and last year's team really, really struggled to get him those shots because they couldn't put other teams into rotation. None of the guards could force the defense to collapse on them in the paint with any consistency.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Schroder is in the 10-13 shots per game range. I don't want him taking 15, 16 shots a game. I just would prefer the point guard be able to actually force the defense to pay attention to him when he gets inside the arc.
That's fair, and I think Schroder will see plenty of minutes with both Tatum and Brown on the floor, especially on nights when the offense needs a spark. Playing Smart and Schroder alongside each other in the backcourt means you're less switchable, but Schroder isn't Kemba defensively. That lineup makes a lot of sense in that it allows Pritchard to run the bench offense with shooting wings around him.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think it is a terrible idea because Schroder is a ball dominant, high usage player who shoots a lot, and as a complementary player to stars last year he wasn't that great. Also not a great shooter from distance.
So is he not going to get a lot of minutes because he's only signed for a year or because you think he's a bad fit?

Sorry, but the signed for one year argument is laughable. The latter, ok.
 

Van Everyman

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Is there any more intel on what happened with Smart resulting in him getting suspended/benched? Why did he miss the flight?
 

Eddie Jurak

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So is he not going to get a lot of minutes because he's only signed for a year or because you think he's a bad fit?

Sorry, but the signed for one year argument is laughable. The latter, ok.
What do you see as Schroder’s path to staying in Boston long term? No Bird rights, so if he has a good year he will price himself above what Boston can offer.

In terms of usage, I think Schroder will play about 30 minutes per game, including all the bench minutes. He’ll be turned loose when he is playing with backups, but they won’t want him taking too much offense away from Tatum and Brown when he is playing with the starters.
 

benhogan

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There is a lot of complaining around here that Marcus Smart shoots too much. Career 11 shots per 36. Schroeder career 16.8 per 36. Even playing with Lebron and Davis last year he took more shots than Smart ever did. People who think Smart shot too much aren't goimg to be happy with Schroder.
DS took a lot less 3pt shots than MS last season. BUT I don't even know why we are comparing Marcus vs Schroder? Play both together.

If they both play with the JAYs/Horford as I suggested, they both will defer to our better shooters or see their minutes cut.

We want balanced lineups. Starting double big (TL/Horford) then major minutes of DS/PP/Kanter will be less than ideal.

If you don't want to see DS hoisting lots of shots (which I agree, we don't) then you don't want him exclusively with the 2nd unit
 

Cesar Crespo

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What do you see as Schroder’s path to staying in Boston long term? No Bird rights, so if he has a good year he will price himself above what Boston can offer.

In terms of usage, I think Schroder will play about 30 minutes per game, including all the bench minutes. He’ll be turned loose when he is playing with backups, but they won’t want him taking too much offense away from Tatum and Brown when he is playing with the starters.
They are playing for this year. Long term doesn't matter. If he offers them the best chance to win games, he should be playing. Especially come the playoffs.

I see him around 30 minutes a game too though. But that's a lot of minutes.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I guess you said start. I don't think it matters if he starts or not if he's playing 30 minutes a game.
 

benhogan

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What do you see as Schroder’s path to staying in Boston long term? No Bird rights, so if he has a good year he will price himself above what Boston can offer.

In terms of usage, I think Schroder will play about 30 minutes per game, including all the bench minutes. He’ll be turned loose when he is playing with backups, but they won’t want him taking too much offense away from Tatum and Brown when he is playing with the starters.
It's a coin toss DS gets traded (as a small asset) in a bigger deal at the trade deadline. He should play where he is most efficient for the Celtics this season, regardless of his 1yr status

No thanks to turning his shooting loose with the 2nd unit. His best attribute on offense will be his ability to push pace and dribble-drive/kick for the step in 3 (to Al/JAYs).

Defensively, DS's penchant for picking up smaller PG with on-ball pressure will also play well with guys like Horford or TL, Tatum, Brown, Smart who like to jump passing lanes on defense. One of Kemba's biggest faults on D was his lack of on-ball pressure of the ballhandler. Kemba let the opponent set up their offense while he picked up the ballhandler under the 3pt line, floated or was isolated.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What do you see as Schroder’s path to staying in Boston long term? No Bird rights, so if he has a good year he will price himself above what Boston can offer.
The only path that I see is Schroder gets off to a good start over the first dozen or so games in showing that he is a better first unit option and going down for the year with an injury that takes him past the start of next year. This would prevent another team from coming over the top of what we can offer while providing us value on another one-year make good contract.

Obviously not what we want but that’s the only real scenario I see him in Boston beyond this season.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Is there any more intel on what happened with Smart resulting in him getting suspended/benched? Why did he miss the flight?
No reasoning on why he missed the flight. Dickerson said in all the years he traveled with the team, he never saw anyone miss a flight. The closest was when a shirtless Big Baby came running across the tarmac at Hanscom in Bedford.

The interesting thing about this story, IMO, isn't that Marcus got in trouble, it's how Ime handled it. The other day, the C's released their list of players out for the Orlando game, and Marcus wasn't even scheduled to play. They were going to rest him. So they could have simply benched Marcus as they planned to do, but Ime went to the next step of suspending him publicly. After years of watching players do whatever they want on the court with Brad, I hope this is Ime's way of not only establishing a new culture off the court, but also on it. He's basically drawing a line in the sand for the entire team, not just Marcus, and saying if you don't follow the rules and get in line, then I'll move you out of the way. I doubt very much we even hear about this situation, never mind see a suspension, if Brad was still coaching, and Marcus was already publicly getting the night off anyway.
 

HomeRunBaker

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No reasoning on why he missed the flight. Dickerson said in all the years he traveled with the team, he never saw anyone miss a flight. The closest was when a shirtless Big Baby came running across the tarmac at Hanscom in Bedford.

The interesting thing about this story, IMO, isn't that Marcus got in trouble, it's how Ime handled it. The other day, the C's released their list of players out for the Orlando game, and Marcus wasn't even scheduled to play. They were going to rest him. So they could have simply benched Marcus as they planned to do, but Ime went to the next step of suspending him publicly. After years of watching players do whatever they want on the court with Brad, I hope this is Ime's way of not only establishing a new culture off the court, but also on it. He's basically drawing a line in the sand for the entire team, not just Marcus, and saying if you don't follow the rules and get in line, then I'll move you out of the way. I doubt very much we even hear about this situation, never mind see a suspension, if Brad was still coaching, and Marcus was already publicly getting the night off anyway.
This post makes me yearn for social media videos from 2008. Baby….topless…running…tarmac. Good lord, sign me up!

Regarding the suspension, would any player really take that “punishment” serious when they know it doesn’t come with any financial ramifications or any ramifications whatsoever as Marcus wasn’t even playing? Maybe it sounds good from a PR perspective but in the locker room I wouldn’t expect that to matter at all……if not even be joked about by the players leading up to the game.
 

Deathofthebambino

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This post makes me yearn for social media videos from 2008. Baby….topless…running…tarmac. Good lord, sign me up!

Regarding the suspension, would any player really take that “punishment” serious when they know it doesn’t come with any financial ramifications or any ramifications whatsoever as Marcus wasn’t even playing? Maybe it sounds good from a PR perspective but in the locker room I wouldn’t expect that to matter at all……if not even be joked about by the players leading up to the game.
I think it'll make a player think twice about what they can and cannot get away with when it comes to Ime. Like you said, it came with no financial ramifications, in a game that Marcus wasn't playing in anyway. Ime had no reason to let this become public, unless he was sending a message. IMO, it's the perfect time for him to do it. Now everyone knows where he stands and if he's willing to publicly throw a team leader under the plane, he won't think twice about benching a guy who is going through the motions, or not doing what he's supposed to on the court, etc. But on the flip side, it's also just a slap on the wrist in the grand scheme.
 

lars10

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This post makes me yearn for social media videos from 2008. Baby….topless…running…tarmac. Good lord, sign me up!

Regarding the suspension, would any player really take that “punishment” serious when they know it doesn’t come with any financial ramifications or any ramifications whatsoever as Marcus wasn’t even playing? Maybe it sounds good from a PR perspective but in the locker room I wouldn’t expect that to matter at all……if not even be joked about by the players leading up to the game.
I think a lot of players actually want to play.. it’s not only about the money
 

Fishy1

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Marcus once missed a huge chunk of a season for punching a picture frame. He's been suspended and kicked out countless times. Seems like a big nothingburger to me.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think it'll make a player think twice about what they can and cannot get away with when it comes to Ime. Like you said, it came with no financial ramifications, in a game that Marcus wasn't playing in anyway. Ime had no reason to let this become public, unless he was sending a message. IMO, it's the perfect time for him to do it. Now everyone knows where he stands and if he's willing to publicly throw a team leader under the plane, he won't think twice about benching a guy who is going through the motions, or not doing what he's supposed to on the court, etc. But on the flip side, it's also just a slap on the wrist in the grand scheme.
Good point about the public shame. It’s actually a great opportunity for Ime to do something that Smart’s actions allow him to do without hurting the team.
 

teddykgb

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There seems to be enough noise about teammates being irritated by Marcus that the value may be more in showing other players that the new coach will at least handle him differently
 

Cesar Crespo

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There seems to be enough noise about teammates being irritated by Marcus that the value may be more in showing other players that the new coach will at least handle him differently
Who other than Grant Williams? I'm guessing his problems are personal rather than with teammates.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ime said that he'd hoped to use the final preseason game as a dress rehearsal for opening night, so Smart would have played tonight.
Ah. I was following Death’s post that said he wasn’t. Better off anyway. Nothing good can happen from our guys playing in this game.
 

bakahump

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Maybe I am Pinked?
musta been something Ime wants to send a message for. Otherwise (Smart-OUT/Rest). I mean its a preaseason game. If its minor or "understandable" this could be kept in house.

But to list him as "Suspended" sends a message.

"Nobody better mess up or I WILL suspend you. Look at Marcus. Team leader, just signed extension....and his ass is supended"

interesting though with the "WISPS of Smoke" going around last week about "Marcus being off".

So early but if Marcus hamstrings this team for some stupid reason.......grrrr
 

mcpickl

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I guess I have a different vision of the offense. I'm hoping that having a point guard who can actually penetrate will produce more catch-and-shoot opportunities for Jaylen and Jayson, and I'm not sure the best thing for the team is Jaylen and Jayson trying to make plays for others. Jaylen is a bad playmaker, and Jayson isn't great shakes yet either: Tatum is an incredible shot-maker, obviously, but he deserves more catch-and-shoot opportunities, and last year's team really, really struggled to get him those shots because they couldn't put other teams into rotation. None of the guards could force the defense to collapse on them in the paint with any consistency.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Schroder is in the 10-13 shots per game range. I don't want him taking 15, 16 shots a game. I just would prefer the point guard be able to actually force the defense to pay attention to him when he gets inside the arc.
I can't imagine the offense would run this way.

This sounds like Brown and Tatum are spacing the floor to give Schroder driving lanes.

I'd think they want guys spacing the floor to give Brown and Tatum driving lanes.

I think it makes much more sense to let Schroder as many minutes as possible when Tatum and/or Brown are on the bench and let him drive to his hearts content.
 

lovegtm

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Since this is the Dennis Schroeder thread now...

He's a much, much more threatening guard than Smart off the drive, that much is obvious. This really helps the complementary players who need to be developed, most of whom are wings. For that reason, playing him a lot seems fine, even if he's leaving after a year, since it could significantly increase the value of the surrounding assets.

As for Smart--if Nesmith and Langford continue to look good, and the offense is better with Schroder at the point, his fit on the Celtics is awkward (on-court as well as salary slot), and I suspect he knows this. Something to keep an eye on--he could get disgruntled as the season goes on, despite having gotten his payday, since he'll know how logical it would be to trade him as a value contract.
 

Fishy1

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I can't imagine the offense would run this way.

This sounds like Brown and Tatum are spacing the floor to give Schroder driving lanes.

I'd think they want guys spacing the floor to give Brown and Tatum driving lanes.

I think it makes much more sense to let Schroder as many minutes as possible when Tatum and/or Brown are on the bench and let him drive to his hearts content.
Yeah, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't think Jaylen and Jayson are ready to run an offense by themselves. All I'm saying is they would both benefit from a competent, complimentary scorer who can collapse the defense, put other teams in rotation, and pass the ball, because neither of them are good passers, and both of them are great catch and shoot players.

Nowhere am I advocating for the ball being exclusively in Schroder's hands, or for the two of them standing by while Schroder pounds the ball possession after possession.

I'm not worried that he'll take shots from them either. He only took two more shots per game than Smart did last year. Nor will Smart space the floor much better than Schroder.

I like Smart. I just want him to focus on what he's good at.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Yeah, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't think Jaylen and Jayson are ready to run an offense by themselves. All I'm saying is they would both benefit from a competent, complimentary scorer who can collapse the defense, put other teams in rotation, and pass the ball, because neither of them are good passers, and both of them are great catch and shoot players.
Both Tatum and Brown have improved their playmaking markedly since coming into the league, especially Tatum. "Not good passers" is just wrong, IMO. And offensively, both are far more than catch and shoot players. And both are going to initiate the offense a lot no matter who starts at the point.

If Schroder was a Rondo type PG, I could see that argument for starting him. But he isn't, he's much more of a shoot first guy than Rondo ever was.
 

Fishy1

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Both Tatum and Brown have improved their playmaking markedly since coming into the league, especially Tatum. "Not good passers" is just wrong, IMO. And offensively, both are far more than catch and shoot players. And both are going to initiate the offense a lot no matter who starts at the point.

If Schroder was a Rondo type PG, I could see that argument for starting him. But he isn't, he's much more of a shoot first guy than Rondo ever was.
Nowhere did I say they were just catch and shoot players. I have no idea where you got that from. Nor did I say they wouldn't initiate the offense.

The argument wasn't about whether or not they had "improved" their playmaking either. Of course they have. All and still, Jaylen barely managed a positive AST/TO ratio last year. Tatum was better, but not good enough. Both can get volume buckets at high efficiency, but they can't run an offense. We saw that last year when Kemba was out. The team was at the bottom of the league in terms of assists in large part because the best players on the team struggled to create for their teammates.

My argument is that penetration and forcing defensive rotation will help Jaylen, Jayson, and the rest of the team get easier looks. That's all.

As for Schroder, you continue to ignore the facts. He's not a ball hog: he barely took more shots than Smart last year, and he's had above-average AST% most years, better than Smart, except when he was backing up in OKC and deferring to Lebron in LAL. His AST% in ATL was comparable to Lillard. He's not a genius like Chris Paul or Rondo, but he's a good and willing passer. He's a weak outside shooter, but so are Smart and Richardson.

They'll all get to play together, anyway. Who starts doesn't matter that much. I expect Smart's shooting will be reined in in favor of Schroder after not very long.
 

mcpickl

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Yeah, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't think Jaylen and Jayson are ready to run an offense by themselves. All I'm saying is they would both benefit from a competent, complimentary scorer who can collapse the defense, put other teams in rotation, and pass the ball, because neither of them are good passers, and both of them are great catch and shoot players.

Nowhere am I advocating for the ball being exclusively in Schroder's hands, or for the two of them standing by while Schroder pounds the ball possession after possession.

I'm not worried that he'll take shots from them either. He only took two more shots per game than Smart did last year. Nor will Smart space the floor much better than Schroder.

I like Smart. I just want him to focus on what he's good at.
Schroders strength is as a driver though, as opposed to a shooter.

That skill set makes much more sense away from Tatum/Brown who are going to have the ball in their hands a lot and need spacers/shooters around them.

I'd much rather have Schroder with the bench unit, driving the ball a bunch while not taking possessions away from Tatum/Brown, and kicking it out to a guys like Nesmith/Pritchard who can shoot it, but are guys I don't want to be running plays for much.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Ah. I was following Death’s post that said he wasn’t. Better off anyway. Nothing good can happen from our guys playing in this game.
My post was Wednesday morning. Marcus was already announced prior to that to not be playing Wednesday night against Orlando because of "rest". I have no idea whether or not he played or was supposed to play against the Heat on Friday night.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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NBA.com article on Marcus working with Damon Stoudamire here: https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-101921-ex-nba-star-stoudamire-hopes-help-bring-out-best-pg-smart. One snippet:

“I’m not one of those guys that’s trying to be a miracle worker; this situation was really good when I stepped into it,” Stoudamire acknowledged. “A guy like Marcus Smart just finally has the opportunity as he steps into a starting role, to show everyone what he’s probably been thinking in his head that he’s capable of being the starting point guard for the Boston Celtics.”
With that being said, Stoudamire can still offer Smart a new perspective and endless wisdom, which should only benefit the 27-year-old as he enters his prime playing years.
“I really believe that Marcus has a ceiling that he hasn’t reached yet, and now it’s just a matter of getting him there,” Stoudamire said. “I’m excited to be working with him. I’m excited for his opportunity as the starting point guard for the Boston Celtics, and I’ll do anything possible to help him reach and attain the level that he wants to, even if that means being a bad cop at times. I’ve always told him that my actions are showing you that, even if at times you don’t like me, it’s never coming from a bad place. I’m just trying to get you to be the player, maximize the player that you’re capable of being.”
 

slamminsammya

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NBA.com article on Marcus working with Damon Stoudamire here: https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-101921-ex-nba-star-stoudamire-hopes-help-bring-out-best-pg-smart. One snippet:

“I’m not one of those guys that’s trying to be a miracle worker; this situation was really good when I stepped into it,” Stoudamire acknowledged. “A guy like Marcus Smart just finally has the opportunity as he steps into a starting role, to show everyone what he’s probably been thinking in his head that he’s capable of being the starting point guard for the Boston Celtics.”
With that being said, Stoudamire can still offer Smart a new perspective and endless wisdom, which should only benefit the 27-year-old as he enters his prime playing years.
“I really believe that Marcus has a ceiling that he hasn’t reached yet, and now it’s just a matter of getting him there,” Stoudamire said. “I’m excited to be working with him. I’m excited for his opportunity as the starting point guard for the Boston Celtics, and I’ll do anything possible to help him reach and attain the level that he wants to, even if that means being a bad cop at times. I’ve always told him that my actions are showing you that, even if at times you don’t like me, it’s never coming from a bad place. I’m just trying to get you to be the player, maximize the player that you’re capable of being.”
I am glad we have someone who can work on his confidence.