Marcus Smart: 4 year, $77 million extension

DGreenwood

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How would we move Horford for a Top 30 type? He's making a lot of money, but what possible player of that level would be available for Horford? You'd have to strap picks + other stuff to Horford to do something like that, and that might still be a very good trade for the Celtics, but not sure what you are referring too.
Most of the talk I've seen regarding trading Horford revolves around a sign and trade this summer for a free agent. Someone like Bradley Beal or Zach LaVine, where Horford's main value is as a matching salary/expiring contract.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Dunno how he would fit or why he'd want to leave Chicago, but I'd love him in Boston.

I'd prefer to add him to the Jays, but I'd trade Jaylen for him. I think he'd be one of the best fits next to Tatum among the 2nd tier of players and one of the best fits for the Jays as well. Him and Brandon Ingram. Though the latter has some wide ranging opinions on his playmaking ability. I'm on the higher end of those opinions.

They can both score, shoot and pass the ball some. I think Jaylen would thrive in a system that had Tatum/Lavine or Tatum/Ingram and his tunnel vision would be more of a strength.

Devin Booker would be an amazing fit too.
No clue why he'd leave CHI, but a S&T with Horford's deal makes some sense in a S&T if he chose here.

I assume you'd run out a lineup of:
TL
Tatum
Brown
LaVine
Smart

with White/Theis/Grant/MLE as the rest of the rotation
 

Cesar Crespo

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How would we move Horford for a Top 30 type? He's making a lot of money, but what possible player of that level would be available for Horford? You'd have to strap picks + other stuff to Horford to do something like that, and that might still be a very good trade for the Celtics, but not sure what you are referring too.
CJ McCollum and Sabonis were just moved. Who a top 30 type is is pretty arbitrary though.

No clue who might be available but there's almost always someone in that range of players available.
 

Cesar Crespo

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No clue why he'd leave CHI, but a S&T with Horford's deal makes some sense in a S&T if he chose here.

I assume you'd run out a lineup of:
TL
Tatum
Brown
LaVine
Smart

with White/Theis/Grant/MLE as the rest of the rotation
That top 6 would be one of the best, if not the best top 6 (starting 5+ White). The team would always have at least one of Tatum, Lavine or Brown on the court as the go to scorer. LaVine is also a decent enough playmaker that added with White the team's ball movement and play making becomes a strength. Not to mention LaVine is very close to elite at 3 point shooting (% + volume). Having Tatum/Lavine/Brown on the court provide enough spacing that the team can easily get away with TL and Smart/White. This is especially true if Smart and White are closer to 34% from 3. Merely below average instead of awful, though Smart has been trending in the right direction.

I think Ingram provides a lot of the same stuff LaVine does, plus elite length. With some effort on D and/or the right system, I think he could excel there. Even if he doesn't, he's a pretty gifted offensive player. FWIW, LaVine is 6'4.5, 6'8.25, 8'4. Ingram is 6'8 with an incredible 7'3 wingspan and 9'1.5 standing reach. We have TL at an even more ridiculous 6'9, 7'6 and 9'4 but Ingram is one of the longer players in the NBA too. Curious what he could do if he wasn't asked to carry the load offensively. NO was doing really well with Zion, but a lot of that was Zion. Still, having good players as teammates helps.
 

Euclis20

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CJ McCollum and Sabonis were just moved. Who a top 30 type is is pretty arbitrary though.

No clue who might be available but there's almost always someone in that range of players available.
Agreed that top 30 is pretty arbitrary, but McCollum ain't it. 30 year old shooting guard with poor defense, never made an all-star team...at his best he was borderline top 30, and he's a few years removed from that now.

Sabonis was available because the Kings gave up Haliburton. If Boston were willing to part TL, they may be able to staple him to Horford's contract to get a top 30 guy (I mentioned Gobert in another thread, which would at least work salary wise). Beyond that, it would take a lot of luck to get a top 30 guy with just Horford.
 

Devizier

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The Horford play is probably going to be younger long-contract guys who teams want to move off from. Crespo mentioned Ingram and that makes sense, even if I don't particularly love that idea. There are plenty of others, and even more when you are looking into the middle class contracts (e.g. Derrick White).
 

Cesar Crespo

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Agreed that top 30 is pretty arbitrary, but McCollum ain't it. 30 year old shooting guard with poor defense, never made an all-star team...at his best he was borderline top 30, and he's a few years removed from that now.

Sabonis was available because the Kings gave up Haliburton. If Boston were willing to part TL, they may be able to staple him to Horford's contract to get a top 30 guy (I mentioned Gobert in another thread, which would at least work salary wise). Beyond that, it would take a lot of luck to get a top 30 guy with just Horford.
I'm assuming the poster meant Horford as shorthand for the 1st round picks and swap package with Horford as the salary filler.

Horford himself definitely isn't landing a top 30 player unless there is a team desperately looking to hit the reset button and offload a player they just signed to a pretty big contract in an attempt to sign a player to a max this season or next. I'm not sure why a team would do that unless they were pretty much guaranteed to get the player they wanted and needed to clear salary as fast as possible. I don't know Atlanta's cap situation but if they struggle next year, maybe they'd just want to dump Collins contract for Horfords and use the cap space to sign a max guy. They probably wouldn't have the cap space anyway but just a hypothetical scenario.

Any team looking to just clear salary should be interested in Horford. I don't know who those teams are or who the players are.

edit: Or what Devizier said. Long term contracts of youngish players that teams want to move of off for various reasons.
 

Jimbodandy

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Dunno how he would fit how the C's could acquire him, or why he'd want to leave Chicago, but I'd love him in Boston.

I'd prefer to add him to the Jays, but I'd trade Jaylen for him. I think he'd be one of the best fits next to Tatum among the 2nd tier of players and one of the best fits for the Jays as well. Him and Brandon Ingram. Though the latter has some wide ranging opinions on his playmaking ability. I'm on the higher end of those opinions.

They can both score, shoot and pass the ball some. I think Jaylen would thrive in a system that had Tatum/Lavine or Tatum/Ingram and his tunnel vision would be more of a strength.

Devin Booker would be an amazing fit too.

edit: phrasing.
You'd trade Jaylen for way less than Lavine.

I'd love him, and lovegtm already brought him up as a pick bonanza S&T. I wouldn't send JB, but I'd send all of the picks.

Agreed that Ingram and Booker would work too.

49396

Marcus fits pretty seamlessly in this group, when we have enough playmakers.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Thank you for posting the Smart interview.

Its not going to change anyone's mind about him but it reinforces my view that he should be considered part of the core. Of course the Celtics can and likely will move him if they can upgrade the roster however given his performance on the court this season as well as his intangibles, you would really want to be sure that the incoming piece is truly additive. Most of the players that people have been proposing moving Smart for over the past few years simply don't clear that bar.
 

benhogan

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Dunno how he would fit how the C's could acquire him, or why he'd want to leave Chicago, but I'd love him in Boston.

I'd prefer to add him to the Jays, but I'd trade Jaylen for him. I think he'd be one of the best fits next to Tatum among the 2nd tier of players and one of the best fits for the Jays as well. Him and Brandon Ingram. Though the latter has some wide ranging opinions on his playmaking ability. I'm on the higher end of those opinions.

They can both score, shoot and pass the ball some. I think Jaylen would thrive in a system that had Tatum/Lavine or Tatum/Ingram and his tunnel vision would be more of a strength.

Devin Booker would be an amazing fit too.

edit: phrasing.
Zach LaVine would be the final piece but agree it's pipe dreamy.

I'm curious to see how this current Celtic team plays. There isn't a weak defender among the top 8 (my Brown coma bitchin' aside). This is what I've been wanting to see for a while. They would be great next season by adding a top 60ish player for Horford+pick(s) + young player as long as that player plays D. So no thanks on CJ McCollum.

A defense is only as strong as its weakest link in the playoffs.

Marcus Smart stays & gets the C on his uniform this summer
 

benhogan

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My entire plan for this summer is to get a Bogdanovic.
a really disappointed Atlanta team may want to move players/salary this summer

John Collins has always been my white whale and would be the BIG that could splash the Corner3

he'd also complete the puzzle if it only cost Horford + pickapalooza
 

Cesar Crespo

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You'd trade Jaylen for way less than Lavine.
Heh, not really. Out of all the proposed Jaylen deals, the only one I liked was mine for Haliburton and Barnes. I'm just extremely high on Haliburton and think he's all but guaranteed to be as good as Jaylen Brown.

The Murray and either Keldon or Vassel proposal was interesting. More so with Keldon, but I wouldn't bite. I'm not big on Murray (rightly or wrongly, I get stat padding vibes from him) and I don't think Keldon Johnson or Vassell ever get to Brown's level. I'm pretty sure I dismissed all the others without even much thought.

I even predicted on this board that Haliburton would average 20 ppg/10apg for the rest of the rest of the season in Indiana, and on effective shooting. I don't see how anyone can be a non believer but he's making me look like a genius in his first 2 games.

22.5 points, 11.0 assists, 2.5 steals on 16/29 shooting and 10/18 from 3 in 40.0 mpg.

Fox missed 4 games from 12/17-12/22, Haliburton averaged 23.5 points, 11.3 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 2.0 steals in 39.8 minutes on .529/.500/.846 shooting.
Fox missed 8 games from 1/22-2/05, Haliburton averaged 17.0 points, 9.0 assists, 4.0 rebounds, 1.9 steals, in 36.7 minutes on .414/.340/.875 shooting.

Long story short, you are mistaken by huge man crush on Haliburton as a desire to trade Brown. LaVine is really, really good. If someone wants to argue Jaylen Brown is better than LaVine, that's fine. But it's 100% an argument. You can add Ingram into that group too. It's more about who one thinks is a better fit next to Tatum at that point. The talent is comparable. I think Ingram and LaVine would both be better fits next to Tatum but that Jaylen is fine. It just requires having more plus passers at other positions.

Haliburton is all about projection. You either believe or you don't.

edit: There are very few unfinished players I'd trade Brown. Out of all of those, the one I thought would be the most likely to be traded was Haliburton and that it wasn't very likely. Anthony Edwards and LaMelo Ball aren't coming to Boston.
 

EL Jeffe

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The infamous internet doctor (who, FWIW, has a reasonable track record despite his personal/professional failings), called it a common basketball sprain. He expects Smart back in action after the All Star break.
 

Jimbodandy

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It didn't look that bad on replay, but I was a little concerned that he was gripping the leg up closer to the knee than the ankle. At first it seemed that he banged knees.

Honestly couldn't have happened at a better time.
 

Euclis20

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No surprise, Smart has never been the most durable player (average of 15 games missed per year over his first 7 seasons, 9 missed so far this year). White is as good a replacement as we could hope for. We undoubtedly improved our playoff rotation at the trading deadline, but only if everyone is healthy. Fingers crossed that Smart is close to 100% when he does return.
 

Jimbodandy

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No surprise, Smart has never been the most durable player (average of 15 games missed per year over his first 7 seasons, 9 missed so far this year). White is as good a replacement as we could hope for. We undoubtedly improved our playoff rotation at the trading deadline, but only if everyone is healthy. Fingers crossed that Smart is close to 100% when he does return.
Kinda rough holding a sprained ankle against a guy when he stepped on another guy's foot. If it were a hammy or oblique or something, I could see the disappointment. I doubt that there's 3 posters on this forum who haven't done that.
 

RG33

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Kinda rough holding a sprained ankle against a guy when he stepped on another guy's foot. If it were a hammy or oblique or something, I could see the disappointment. I doubt that there's 3 posters on this forum who haven't done that.
I’ve played basketball my whole life and have never sprained an ankle (knocking on wood).
 

Koufax

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Smart is the toughest SOB on the team. I'm surprised he doesn't miss twice as many games considering how hard he throws his body around.
 

Jimbodandy

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I’ve played basketball my whole life and have never sprained an ankle (knocking on wood).
Yeah keep knocking for sure.

I did the one where you land on your toe first like Gordon's break. Mine was not broken but double-sized for a week. Probably 2 weeks before I didn't have discoloration in my toes. Sprained that another 20ish times and my "good" one 3 times. It gets way easier to sprain it after you fucked it the first time.
 

bakahump

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Plus dude goes all out on every play. How often does he end up on the floor?

Cost of doing business with a player of Smarts Talents and "intangibles".
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah keep knocking for sure.

I did the one where you land on your toe first like Gordon's break. Mine was not broken but double-sized for a week. Probably 2 weeks before I didn't have discoloration in my toes. Sprained that another 20ish times and my "good" one 3 times. It gets way easier to sprain it after you fucked it the first time.
My brother has sprained his ankle literally 30ish times in his life playing hoops. It got absurd but when the ankle is weak, that shit happens so often.
 

Euclis20

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Kinda rough holding a sprained ankle against a guy when he stepped on another guy's foot. If it were a hammy or oblique or something, I could see the disappointment. I doubt that there's 3 posters on this forum who haven't done that.
I've done it playing pickup more than once, I feel his pain and I'm not holding it against him. I'm still going to note that he's good for missing a few weeks every year, I just hope he's healed up before the playoffs.
 

RG33

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Yeah keep knocking for sure.

I did the one where you land on your toe first like Gordon's break. Mine was not broken but double-sized for a week. Probably 2 weeks before I didn't have discoloration in my toes. Sprained that another 20ish times and my "good" one 3 times. It gets way easier to sprain it after you fucked it the first time.
It perhaps is directly correlated to my lack of “ups”, but it is something that friends have always marveled at.
 

Jimbodandy

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I've done it playing pickup more than once, I feel his pain and I'm not holding it against him. I'm still going to note that he's good for missing a few weeks every year, I just hope he's healed up before the playoffs.
That's fair. As some have noted, his approach is chaotic. This can happen to anyone.

It's the all star break. I'll leave the doc stuff to the docs, but unless we hear the word "high" in the same sentence as "sprain" in the next week or so, we shouldn't be worried about him being back in time for the playoffs.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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My brother has sprained his ankle literally 30ish times in his life playing hoops. It got absurd but when the ankle is weak, that shit happens so often.
I used to sprain my basketball but I have perfected socially distant basketball. I can play and still remain far enough from people to avoid catching COVID!

More seriously, if your bro is still playing, I learned some time ago that constant spraining of the ankle is due to lack of balance. Doing one footed balancing poses helps with balance and strengthens ankle.
 

Jimbodandy

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I used to sprain my basketball but I have perfected socially distant basketball. I can play and still remain far enough from people to avoid catching COVID!

More seriously, if your bro is still playing, I learned some time ago that constant spraining of the ankle is due to lack of balance. Doing one footed balancing poses helps with balance and strengthens ankle.
Definitely recommend the one footed exercises. I started wrapping it before playing, and that helped too.

Edit: that second piece of advice is useful across the board
 

128

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Have there been any reports on the severity of Smart's ankle injury? It'd be great to see him in the lineup when the C's season resumes Thursday nite at BKN, but that may not be realistic.
 

Auger34

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I think you’re the one that would normally post the twitter links but last I saw was Ime expected him back right after the ASB.
He had a limp but didn’t require a boot and he was originally listed as “Doubtful” for the Pistons game (not immediately ruled out). All of that leads me to believe he will be playing on Thursday
 

HomeRunBaker

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I used to sprain my basketball but I have perfected socially distant basketball. I can play and still remain far enough from people to avoid catching COVID!
All my years playing I never sprained an ankle. Only injury was splitting defenders on fast break into the lane at full speed and broke it. I too would have been effective in Covid times with my SDD……socially distant defense. Lol I never understood why you’d play up in a guys face outdoors in the elements when they couldn’t shoot. My motto was treat everyone like Ben Simmons and if they made one match it at the other end. :)
 

Fishy1

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All my years playing I never sprained an ankle. Only injury was splitting defenders on fast break into the lane at full speed and broke it. I too would have been effective in Covid times with my SDD……socially distant defense. Lol I never understood why you’d play up in a guys face outdoors in the elements when they couldn’t shoot. My motto was treat everyone like Ben Simmons and if they made one match it at the other end. :)
Because playing defense is fun!

This coming from someone who was in a boot after spraining his ankle, only made a full recovery after four or five months, only to put myself right back into a boot months later on the other foot... Not fun.

When I was doing a lot of cross country skiing, I never rolled my ankles. All that one-footed balancing was great for me. Since I moved to Florida, I've been a self-ankle-breaking machine.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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We're going down a bit of a rabbit hole here, but sprained ankles seems pretty hard to classify as injury prone or bad luck. Probably because its a bit of both.

First, spraining your ankle leads to a weaker ankle, so...yeah, more injury prone.

I also think some people are a little more gifted with spacial awareness at fast speed. Most NBA players are probably amazing, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out there was a smaller subset who just have a great ability for multi-tasking physical activities (grabbing a rebound, seeing the floor for an outlet, awareness of bodies around them and subconsciously calculating where to land, etc.) So, people without this skill are also probably more injury prone.

Then there are the guys who go a million miles an hour for every move - a group that Marcus obviously falls into. His willingness to go up high, fast, and bang with bigger bodies is going to inherently put more risk into each play. So, yes, injury prone over bad luck.

I'm sure theres a bunch of little things like this that can fall into the "injury prone" bucket. But the biggest factor is always going to be chance. Wrong landing at the wrong time in a fast sport with a lot of flying bodies.

I'm not sure what the percentages are for injury prone vs chance. I think its one of those injuries that we just accept as coming with the job, and knowing everyone has a chance of having it. Some slightly more so than others.

(edit - wow...I just wasted 10 minutes to write "some people get ankles sprains". Think I should refocus my attention to work).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Looked like Morant was giving credit to Smart on the way back up the court. I’m not a good lip reader but it looked like nice pass, well done or something to that effect.
 

DGreenwood

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Looked like Morant was giving credit to Smart on the way back up the court. I’m not a good lip reader but it looked like nice pass, well done or something to that effect.
The pbp guy on TNT agreed that Morant was giving credit to Smart but thought he was saying "That's tough!". I remember because I was thinking that was an unusual phrase to use. But I'm not exactly up to date on hip lingo.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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The pbp guy on TNT agreed that Morant was giving credit to Smart but thought he was saying "That's tough!". I remember because I was thinking that was an unusual phrase to use. But I'm not exactly up to date on hip lingo.
That’s tough means, roughly, that’s cool
 

NomarsFool

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It’s really great to see how he is also playing within himself on offense. No more of those 18 3PA nights, but really looking for his teammates.
 

Cesar Crespo

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First 27: 34.2 mpg, .378/.273/.758, 10.7 points, 5.6 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 2.1 steals, 1.9 TO (35/128 from 3)
Last 32: 31.7 mpg, .450/.373/.833, 13.3 points, 5.7 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 2.3 TO (57/153 from 3)
Last 21: 30.6 mpg, .463/.370/.810, 13.0 points, 6.2 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 2.3 TO (37/100 from 3)

Been said a billion times, but a Marcus Smart who can hit 3s opens up a lot of things.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Like Tatum, Smart is playing the best ball of his career right now. He is impacting the game in more ways too if you factor in his distribution. He too has leveled up a bit this season and that's including his struggles from deep - though he is better of late here too as well as discussed upthread.
 

DourDoerr

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Like Tatum, Smart is playing the best ball of his career right now. He is impacting the game in more ways too if you factor in his distribution. He too has leveled up a bit this season and that's including his struggles from deep - though he is better of late here too as well as discussed upthread.
Any chance Smart gets DPOY? Tatum put it out there too in an interview with Smart (link is in the C's Game Analysis thread). There certainly seems to be a push. The last guard to win was Payton in 95-96 which goes two ways. 1) Guards never win, so MS doesn't have a chance. 2) Guards never win, so there's big man fatigue and it's time to award it to a guard, giving MS a chance. I don't know how they award it - solely on metrics, or on metrics/eye test combo, or just eye test.
 

Saints Rest

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Any chance Smart gets DPOY? Tatum put it out there too in an interview with Smart (link is in the C's Game Analysis thread). There certainly seems to be a push. The last guard to win was Payton in 95-96 which goes two ways. 1) Guards never win, so MS doesn't have a chance. 2) Guards never win, so there's big man fatigue and it's time to award it to a guard, giving MS a chance. I don't know how they award it - solely on metrics, or on metrics/eye test combo, or just eye test.
The other "goes two ways" thing:
  1. Lots of quality bigs: may split the vote, allowing a little guy to win..
  2. Lots of quality bigs: too many guys to beat.