Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?

lexrageorge

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We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The Morris Brothers' antics can be tiresome, but it's hard to question Marcus' competitive drive and toughness, two qualities the C's lacked most of last season and for the first part of this one.
The issue is that Morris signed w/ Boston to set himself up for a bigger role and bigger payday in the future. And it was clear he was never going to get that larger role on a team w/ Tatum, Brown, Smart, Haywood, Kemba/Rozier. So there was really no chance he was going to stay with Boston, and there was no chance Ainge was going to overpay him to play the "toughness" role. So his departure was fait accompli the minute he signed here, and so I never felt Ainge mistakenly "let him walk for nothing".
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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The Kyrexit was pretty well telegraphed by December. Every beat & national NBA reporter was aware and reporting it. Kyrie was clearly unhappy, while Ky was also being a prick to Jaylen Brown/others the entire season.

What hindsight do you speak of? Because the face-saving Kemba signing worked out for ~3months. Danny desperately tried to cut bait on him the following summer.
Sean Grande has said multiple times on podcasts (yes I have to hear him repeat it) that the 2019-20 team was really good. If you should blame anyone, you probably should blame the Cs medical staff for not figuring out how damaged KW's knee was. I mean how was Danny supposed to know that?

Also, from recollection of the events of the last Kyrie year, I would imagine that DA explored the Kyrie trade market. I mean DA said that he and Kyrie talked a lot and Kyrie went back and forth on whether he or he was going to stay: https://www.yahoo.com/video/danny-ainge-opens-up-on-kyrie-irving-believed-during-season-he-would-leave-for-nets-005139133.html.

The other thing is that everyone became "positive" that Kyrie was going to bolt after that conversation with him and Durant was filmed in the hallway at the All-Star Game. But if I recall correctly, the ASG was after the trade deadline.

Don't forget he let Max Struss go to Miami instead of keeping him here. It's that kind of action that simply cannot be forgiven.
That can be forgiven. Drafting KO instead of Giannis can't be though.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Kelly O's dad is a former coach and AD in Canada. The scuttlebutt after the C's drafted him is when he shot for the Celtics he shot 3s for half an hour and missed maybe 6 shots. The agent left telling the dad his Kid would not last past Boston's pick.
KO is a good shooter for a guy his size. I thought he would be a better shooter but just to show how thin the margin is:

KO has shot 1981 3Ps in his career. He's shot them at a .365 clip. My feeling is that seeing KO as a slightly better than league average 3P shooter is about right. He had two seasons where he shot better than 40% but he had five seasons where he shot below 35.5% (35.1%, 34.9%, 35.4%, 35.4%, and 34.2%). He's currently shooting 33.7% this year for DET. When he was drafted, I was sure he'd have more than 2 seasons shooting over 40% but OTOH, his shot is somewhat flat.

But I also think that if KO was a career 38% shooter, he might be looked at differently. In order to have shot 38% from 3P over his career, KO would have had to make 29 extra 3Ps over his 8 year, 598 game career. If he had hit 1 more 3P in every 10 games he played, he would be up to 39.5% for his career and he'd have made millions more dollars.
 

joe dokes

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But I also think that if KO was a career 38% shooter, he might be looked at differently. In order to have shot 38% from 3P over his career, KO would have had to make 29 extra 3Ps over his 8 year, 598 game career. If he had hit 1 more 3P in every 10 games he played, he would be up to 39.5% for his career and he'd have made millions more dollars.
This has always bothered me about FG%. The difference between a marginal overall shooter (maybe 37-42%) and a good one (43-48) (or pick your own ranges), is maybe one make per game.
 

benhogan

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Sean Grande has said multiple times on podcasts (yes I have to hear him repeat it) that the 2019-20 team was really good. If you should blame anyone, you probably should blame the Cs medical staff for not figuring out how damaged KW's knee was. I mean how was Danny supposed to know that?
must.......resist.......the.......Kemba.........signing.......bashing

I swear I'm in group working on this
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Ainge criticisms are weird. The guy built an incredible foundation for this team, hired a coach that nobody thought was NBA bound, and had them competitive for almost 20 years. Plus, he left at almost a perfect moment, teeing up his coach to do the rebuild. Oh, and he won a title, and competed for another and made some thing like five Eastern conference finals. What the hell else do people expect?
You can still be a HOF executive and at the end of your rope lose the fire to grind the day-to-day work to build your best roster. Ainge did many great things here but it was pretty apparent a change was needed and Wyc (and Ainge) did the right thing for the organization.
 

Kliq

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Olynyk was a perfectly fine player for where they were drafting, and has gone on to have a very acceptable career. As a franchise that drafted Yabu around that same slot, we know how badly that can go.
 

nighthob

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Ainge's fault was not cutting bait on Kyrie at the trade deadline when the writing was on the wall that Irving was going elsewhere. At the same time, who knows if he would have been able to sell that deal to Wyc at the time. Haywood was showing signs of recovering closer to his form, and the chemistry issues could have resolved themselves.
My only criticism of Ainge was that he had tunnelvision with regards to certain players. It worked out with Garnett, but he made some mistakes in his pursuit of Kevin Durant a few years later (for one not seeing that Durant was a major frontrunner and not interested in leading a team to a title). And his stripping the roster down to create the space for Horford and Durant led to the poor decision to hold on to James Young as wing depth and use the 16th and 23rd picks on draft & stashes. If they'd paid someone like Atlanta to take Young they would still have had to stash #16, but 23 would have been usable and the Aingiest late first player (he tends to use picks in the 20-30 range on safe(r) upperclassmen) was Malcolm Brogdon.

Similarly his focus on landing Anthony Davis a few years ago led him to hang on to Kyrie in hopes that having Irving would convince Davis to commit Boston long term (in the event of a successful trade) and having Davis would convince Kyrie to re-sign. But ultimately he should have seen the writing on the wall when Davis hired LeBron as his agent an traded Irving to Brooklyn, especially as Irving had already reached a contract agreement with the Nets. (And, yes, there was real value to the Nets in having Irving's Bird rights as it would have lowered his cap hold and made it easier to put talent around Irving/Durant). At the very least they could probably have swung the trade the Nets made to unload Allen Crabbe (i.e. Irving for Crabbe and two firsts). As an added bonus Crabbe would have prevented Boston from signing Kemba and forced them to re-sign Rozier to cover the 1 spot.
 

nighthob

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The issue is that Morris signed w/ Boston to set himself up for a bigger role and bigger payday in the future. And it was clear he was never going to get that larger role on a team w/ Tatum, Brown, Smart, Haywood, Kemba/Rozier. So there was really no chance he was going to stay with Boston, and there was no chance Ainge was going to overpay him to play the "toughness" role. So his departure was fait accompli the minute he signed here, and so I never felt Ainge mistakenly "let him walk for nothing".
Morris didn't sign with the Celtics, Boston traded Avery Bradley for him. A couple of years later he signed with the Knicks after the Klutch Klownshow fucked him over. (They withheld from Morris the existence of other contract offers to see if they needed him in LA, but after the Davis trade tried to move him to San Antonio on an MLE deal, still withholding from him the existence of other offers. The Knicks front office had to resort to contacting him directly to let him know that they wanted him in New York.)

Boston didn't re-sign Morris because they were trying to create the space to bring in Kemba. Had they dealt Irving to Brooklyn they might have re-signed Morris, and it wouldn't have been the worst move in the world to have had Mamo in a clean clubhouse.
 

Bernard Gilkey baby

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Morris didn't sign with the Celtics, Boston traded Avery Bradley for him. A couple of years later he signed with the Knicks after the Klutch Klownshow fucked him over. (They withheld from Morris the existence of other contract offers to see if they needed him in LA, but after the Davis trade tried to move him to San Antonio on an MLE deal, still withholding from him the existence of other offers. The Knicks front office had to resort to contacting him directly to let him know that they wanted him in New York.)
The Red Sox signed Curt Schilling in 2003 tho. That's been established.
 

Van Everyman

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My only criticism of Ainge was that he had tunnelvision with regards to certain players. It worked out with Garnett, but he made some mistakes in his pursuit of Kevin Durant a few years later (for one not seeing that Durant was a major frontrunner and not interested in leading a team to a title). And his stripping the roster down to create the space for Horford and Durant led to the poor decision to hold on to James Young as wing depth and use the 16th and 23rd picks on draft & stashes. If they'd paid someone like Atlanta to take Young they would still have had to stash #16, but 23 would have been usable and the Aingiest late first player (he tends to use picks in the 20-30 range on safe(r) upperclassmen) was Malcolm Brogdon.

Similarly his focus on landing Anthony Davis a few years ago led him to hang on to Kyrie in hopes that having Irving would convince Davis to commit Boston long term (in the event of a successful trade) and having Davis would convince Kyrie to re-sign. But ultimately he should have seen the writing on the wall when Davis hired LeBron as his agent an traded Irving to Brooklyn, especially as Irving had already reached a contract agreement with the Nets. (And, yes, there was real value to the Nets in having Irving's Bird rights as it would have lowered his cap hold and made it easier to put talent around Irving/Durant). At the very least they could probably have swung the trade the Nets made to unload Allen Crabbe (i.e. Irving for Crabbe and two firsts). As an added bonus Crabbe would have prevented Boston from signing Kemba and forced them to re-sign Rozier to cover the 1 spot.
This feels like a much fairer critique -- tho I would argue that Danny aiming really high is partly what made him so good at what he did (without ever turning into a Jets-ian style cap mess). Again, once the Big Three happened and he was negotiating from a position of strength, this team was competitive all but a handful of a years he was POBO. Even the Kemba thing ended up working out in the end with Brad swinging the Horford deal.

I get that last year's team was crummy and that the Kyrie stuff was messy and unpleasant. And of course he wasn't perfect. But it's not like he left the team in disarray or made any moves that were obvious and lasting big mistakes. We were very lucky to have him and for it to have ended the way it did.
 

Euclis20

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Olynyk was a perfectly fine player for where they were drafting, and has gone on to have a very acceptable career. As a franchise that drafted Yabu around that same slot, we know how badly that can go.
Olynyk was technically the 13th pick, and agreed he was a perfectly fine player for that slot. At the moment, he's having the sort of career that Romeo and Nesmith (drafted one pick later) can only dream about.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Olynyk was technically the 13th pick, and agreed he was a perfectly fine player for that slot. At the moment, he's having the sort of career that Romeo and Nesmith (drafted one pick later) can only dream about.
I will go to my grave screaming that Olynyk, along with his high floor and low ceiling, was the most awful and horrific type player for a rebuilding team. Rebuilding teams need to draft players with high ceilings……playoff teams need to draft players with high floors who can give you rotation minutes on a cheap rookie deal. Ainge royally screwed this draft up with the two upside guys in Gobert and Giannis on the board. I don’t even know how it’s debatable to not draft a role player in the lottery for a rebuilding team.
 

Euclis20

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I will go to my grave screaming that Olynyk, along with his high floor and low ceiling, was the most awful and horrific type player for a rebuilding team. Rebuilding teams need to draft players with high ceilings……playoff teams need to draft players with high floors who can give you rotation minutes on a cheap rookie deal. Ainge royally screwed this draft up with the two upside guys in Gobert and Giannis on the board. I don’t even know how it’s debatable to not draft a role player in the lottery for a rebuilding team.
That's fair. It can both be true that Olynyk outperformed (or at least played up to) his draft slot AND that it was a bad pick by the Celtics considering their situation at the time.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That's fair. It can both be true that Olynyk outperformed (or at least played up to) his draft slot AND that it was a bad pick by the Celtics considering their situation at the time.
Yes, I’m not opposed to Olynyk the player or where he was picked. He’s had a successful career that was better than many 13th picks. You get my point though……he could impact our 2008 team but not our team that he was drafted by.
 

benhogan

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Yes, I’m not opposed to Olynyk the player or where he was picked. He’s had a successful career that was better than many 13th picks. You get my point though……he could impact our 2008 team but not our team that he was drafted by.
it's pretty straightforward when rebuilding you want high ceiling players since you can actually develop them with precious NBA minutes. NBA development minutes are an extremely valuable commodity.

The current Celtics are wisely dealing their 1sts to clean up mistakes (Kemba) & consolidating for higher impact players (White). They are also wisely using 2nds on overseas players (Begarin/Mader), letting them develop in Europe and not starting their clocks. I would also add if a decorated upperclassman, high floor player falls into the 2nd round that's not a bad way to spend a 2nd for an 11-15 roster spot.
 

Kliq

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HRB's point falls apart if you actually think about what Olynyk did with the Celtics; which was play a significant role in several playoff series; most memorably in 2017 against the Wizards, when he closed them out with 26 points in Game 7. His argument that we need to swing for the fences in that kind of situation and ignore a player whose ceiling is a role player is purely theoretical and ignores what Olynyk actually did with the Celtics; which was by a very useful player despite his limited ceiling.
 

HomeRunBaker

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HRB's point falls apart if you actually think about what Olynyk did with the Celtics; which was play a significant role in several playoff series; most memorably in 2017 against the Wizards, when he closed them out with 26 points in Game 7. His argument that we need to swing for the fences in that kind of situation and ignore a player whose ceiling is a role player is purely theoretical and ignores what Olynyk actually did with the Celtics; which was by a very useful player despite his limited ceiling.
It doesn’t fall apart at all. You can get a useful player with your MLE in the summer. That bench player could have had some nice games and done the same. Olynyk was never ever under any circumstance going to move the needle of a lottery team.
 

PedroKsBambino

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My only criticism of Ainge was that he had tunnelvision with regards to certain players. It worked out with Garnett, but he made some mistakes in his pursuit of Kevin Durant a few years later (for one not seeing that Durant was a major frontrunner and not interested in leading a team to a title). And his stripping the roster down to create the space for Horford and Durant led to the poor decision to hold on to James Young as wing depth and use the 16th and 23rd picks on draft & stashes. If they'd paid someone like Atlanta to take Young they would still have had to stash #16, but 23 would have been usable and the Aingiest late first player (he tends to use picks in the 20-30 range on safe(r) upperclassmen) was Malcolm Brogdon.

Similarly his focus on landing Anthony Davis a few years ago led him to hang on to Kyrie in hopes that having Irving would convince Davis to commit Boston long term (in the event of a successful trade) and having Davis would convince Kyrie to re-sign. But ultimately he should have seen the writing on the wall when Davis hired LeBron as his agent an traded Irving to Brooklyn, especially as Irving had already reached a contract agreement with the Nets. (And, yes, there was real value to the Nets in having Irving's Bird rights as it would have lowered his cap hold and made it easier to put talent around Irving/Durant). At the very least they could probably have swung the trade the Nets made to unload Allen Crabbe (i.e. Irving for Crabbe and two firsts). As an added bonus Crabbe would have prevented Boston from signing Kemba and forced them to re-sign Rozier to cover the 1 spot.
I agree with this. A sub-part of the point is a positive for Ainge (focused on adding really significant guys, who he thinks fit really really well) but the focus on "player x" is tricky to execute as opposed to "we need 2 more stars" or "we need a plus scorer" or something that has a bit more optionality associated with it.

It would hvae been tough to trade Kyrie his last year in Boston. And, Ainge is one of roughly 5 GMs who has the gravitas and track record to do it. Bill Belichick would hvae looked at the environment and probabilities and dealt Kyrie. But he's a pretty unique guy.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It doesn’t fall apart at all. You can get a useful player with your MLE in the summer. That bench player could have had some nice games and done the same. Olynyk was never ever under any circumstance going to move the needle of a lottery team.
Agreed. The best realistic version of Olynyk is like the one year Bertans was good, or maybe a slightly different version of last year's Christian Wood (in terms of value more than skills). A starter on a good team, but too limited to be an impact guy or even a starter on a great team. That's fine---you need those guys on your roster---but an odd fit timeline-wise and not a player who was every likely to be super tradeable for the same reason....hard to dream on his potential.
 

lexrageorge

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Morris didn't sign with the Celtics, Boston traded Avery Bradley for him. A couple of years later he signed with the Knicks after the Klutch Klownshow fucked him over. (They withheld from Morris the existence of other contract offers to see if they needed him in LA, but after the Davis trade tried to move him to San Antonio on an MLE deal, still withholding from him the existence of other offers. The Knicks front office had to resort to contacting him directly to let him know that they wanted him in New York.)

Boston didn't re-sign Morris because they were trying to create the space to bring in Kemba. Had they dealt Irving to Brooklyn they might have re-signed Morris, and it wouldn't have been the worst move in the world to have had Mamo in a clean clubhouse.
Thanks for correcting my lazy memory. So I guess I can no longer use Morris as an example of "premier free agent" signing with Boston ;)

I guess I just never expected Morris to resign here, and so didn't give much weight to his leaving. But I'll take back my "addition by subtraction" comment and acknowledge that he would have been an useful add to the 2019-20 bubble team w/ Terry Rozier instead of Kemba.
 

Van Everyman

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The “We should have kept Rozier” stuff is also recency bias. He was terrific in 2018 but shot his way out of town the following year, clearly playing as someone who felt he should be starting and generally driving all of us nuts at the time by jacking up shots and trying to put up numbers. He also, IIRC, did a bunch of interviews complaining about his playing time that did him no favors.

All of which is to say, despite how good of a fit Rozier’s skill set in hindsight would have been for this team, he wasn’t coming back, and nobody was saying at the time we should pay him big dollars to come back and let Kyrie walk. Nor were they saying it midsession while Kyrie was on Tinder with Durant – or really even when we S/T’d him to Charlotte for Kemba. Yes, I'm sure a few posters were saying that they’d rather take a flier on Rozier than signing Kemba to a max. But no one had been advocating for it previously.

FWIW, Tatum was actually on JJ Redick’s podcast recently and talked about how much they both loved Rozier. He was also saying how trying that year was – and how everyone from the year before, himself included, was putting their own personal goals ahead of the team’s. He said he thought the real shame was that, unlike the previous year where he thought they’d have gotten smoked by Golden State, he believed the 2019 Celtics team was the most talented healthy team in the league (Warriors were hurt that year) but that they couldn’t pull it together to take advantage.

Lots of good stuff in there, worth watching.
 

nighthob

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Thanks for correcting my lazy memory. So I guess I can no longer use Morris as an example of "premier free agent" signing with Boston ;)

I guess I just never expected Morris to resign here, and so didn't give much weight to his leaving. But I'll take back my "addition by subtraction" comment and acknowledge that he would have been an useful add to the 2019-20 bubble team w/ Terry Rozier instead of Kemba.
MaMo actually did want to come back, but Ainge was too focused on replacing Kyrie, which resulted in the regrettable Walker signing.
 

Auger34

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The “We should have kept Rozier” stuff is also recency bias. He was terrific in 2018 but shot his way out of town the following year, clearly playing as someone who felt he should be starting and generally driving all of us nuts at the time by jacking up shots and trying to put up numbers. He also, IIRC, did a bunch of interviews complaining about his playing time that did him no favors.

All of which is to say, despite how good of a fit Rozier’s skill set in hindsight would have been for this team, he wasn’t coming back, and nobody was saying at the time we should pay him big dollars to come back and let Kyrie walk. Nor were they saying it midsession while Kyrie was on Tinder with Durant – or really even when we S/T’d him to Charlotte for Kemba. Yes, I'm sure a few posters were saying that they’d rather take a flier on Rozier than signing Kemba to a max. But no one had been advocating for it previously.

FWIW, Tatum was actually on JJ Redick’s podcast recently and talked about how much they both loved Rozier. He was also saying how trying that year was – and how everyone from the year before, himself included, was putting their own personal goals ahead of the team’s. He said he thought the real shame was that, unlike the previous year where he thought they’d have gotten smoked by Golden State, he believed the 2019 Celtics team was the most talented healthy team in the league (Warriors were hurt that year) but that they couldn’t pull it together to take advantage.

Lots of good stuff in there, worth watching.
Yeah, I think the overwhelming majority of Celtics fans and people on this board wanted to get rid of both MaMo and Rozier.

I, for one, don’t miss watching Morris’s brand of “leadership”. Definition of “do as I say, not as I do”
 

Cesar Crespo

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The “We should have kept Rozier” stuff is also recency bias. He was terrific in 2018 but shot his way out of town the following year, clearly playing as someone who felt he should be starting and generally driving all of us nuts at the time by jacking up shots and trying to put up numbers. He also, IIRC, did a bunch of interviews complaining about his playing time that did him no favors.

All of which is to say, despite how good of a fit Rozier’s skill set in hindsight would have been for this team, he wasn’t coming back, and nobody was saying at the time we should pay him big dollars to come back and let Kyrie walk. Nor were they saying it midsession while Kyrie was on Tinder with Durant – or really even when we S/T’d him to Charlotte for Kemba. Yes, I'm sure a few posters were saying that they’d rather take a flier on Rozier than signing Kemba to a max. But no one had been advocating for it previously.

FWIW, Tatum was actually on JJ Redick’s podcast recently and talked about how much they both loved Rozier. He was also saying how trying that year was – and how everyone from the year before, himself included, was putting their own personal goals ahead of the team’s. He said he thought the real shame was that, unlike the previous year where he thought they’d have gotten smoked by Golden State, he believed the 2019 Celtics team was the most talented healthy team in the league (Warriors were hurt that year) but that they couldn’t pull it together to take advantage.

Lots of good stuff in there, worth watching.
Does it matter what we say? We aren't paid to make these decisions and Ainge is. The relationship between Terry and Ainge was pretty well documented too. They were/are buddies. If Ainge wanted Rozier, he could have had Rozier. He whiffed picking Kemba.

Edit: though in the grand scheme of things, I don't think having Rozier over Kemba would have changed much. Who knows what else changes if the C's kept Rozier. Horford obviously wouldn't be back.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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it's pretty straightforward when rebuilding you want high ceiling players since you can actually develop them with precious NBA minutes. NBA development minutes are an extremely valuable commodity.

The current Celtics are wisely dealing their 1sts to clean up mistakes (Kemba) & consolidating for higher impact players (White). They are also wisely using 2nds on overseas players (Begarin/Mader), letting them develop in Europe and not starting their clocks. I would also add if a decorated upperclassman, high floor player falls into the 2nd round that's not a bad way to spend a 2nd for an 11-15 roster spot.
I think DA's philosophy was that rebuilding teams need assets not lottery tickets. Accumulate assets, move them for better assets, etc.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Those 13 other GMs that passed on Giannis are probably pretty pissed too. Gobert was picked at 27. Lot of people fucked up.
It baffled me how Rudy lasted to 27 after the week he had at the Combine. My mouth was hanging open watching this 7-3 gazelle beating wings up and down the floor and altering the game even with that structure. The big thing you worry about with bigs is their motor but you saw after like 20 seconds of Gobert that he had a motor, a focus and he cared about being the hardest worker on the floor.
 

The Social Chair

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Does Shams earn more money from the Athletic or as Kyrie's PR agent? This is the only issue he seems to editorialize on.
 

NomarsFool

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This mandate to not allow unvaccinated home players to compete while allowing visiting players to play was always on the short list of the most ridiculous rules/mandates we’ve seen during the pandemic. Today it says Hold My Beer.
Yes, has always seemed weird to require fans and concession workers and cheerleaders to wear them but not country western stars or players from other cities.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This mandate to not allow unvaccinated home players to compete while allowing visiting players to play was always on the short list of the most ridiculous rules/mandates we’ve seen during the pandemic. Today it says Hold My Beer.
Here's SF's exaplanation from 2021 on why the rule doesn't cover out-of-state performers: https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/San-Francisco-vaccine-mandate-COVID-Wiggins-Irving-16490941.php. My guess is that if you or I were in the position trying to craft and approve this policy, we'd make the same policy choices. It's not perfect by any means and certainly is an attempt to balance competing interests, but it's way better than the extremes - exempt all performers or exempt no performer. YMMV.
 

Jimbodandy

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Here's SF's exaplanation from 2021 on why the rule doesn't cover out-of-state performers: https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/San-Francisco-vaccine-mandate-COVID-Wiggins-Irving-16490941.php. My guess is that if you or I were in the position trying to craft and approve this policy, we'd make the same policy choices. It's not perfect by any means and certainly is an attempt to balance competing interests, but it's way better than the extremes - exempt all performers or exempt no performer. YMMV.
No offense to HRB, but it's a quick and easy target to find a flaw in a mask/vax mandate in order to cast aspersion on mask/vax mandates as a whole. I agree with your assertion that the baby was split well.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Here's SF's exaplanation from 2021 on why the rule doesn't cover out-of-state performers: https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/San-Francisco-vaccine-mandate-COVID-Wiggins-Irving-16490941.php. My guess is that if you or I were in the position trying to craft and approve this policy, we'd make the same policy choices. It's not perfect by any means and certainly is an attempt to balance competing interests, but it's way better than the extremes - exempt all performers or exempt no performer. YMMV.
Not anti-mask or anti-mandate…..that doesn’t change the ridiculousness of Kyrie being in the arena, maskless and unvaccinated, yet not allowed to play.
 

TripleOT

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Looking at hospitalization and death rates of unvaccinated compared to vaccinated Americans, I wonder how many people were influenced by people like Kyrie to not get vaccinated, and are now dead.

Kyrie, more than a franchise killer.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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Not anti-mask or anti-mandate…..that doesn’t change the ridiculousness of Kyrie being in the arena, maskless and unvaccinated, yet not allowed to play.
I'm not turning this into V&N but just wanted to point out that in terms of dealing with a once in a lifetime pandemic, I think large cities like NYC have done really well on the whole with trying to balance public safety and preserving health.

People who point to KI as some example of the absurd are taking an outlier case and making judgements out of it. To me, the only reason that KI isn't playing is because he didn't do what something like 98% of his colleagues did. That's the only reason he's even in this situation.

If i I had to guess, the biggest reason KI is coming to the arena is to make a statement. I mean this is the same guy who missed several playoffs games - including game 7 against LBJ - when he was out with an injury. https://nypost.com/2018/05/28/kyrie-irvings-game-7-absence-explained-after-mark-jackson-criticism/
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,871
NYC
I wonder if that was a little “don’t fvck with me” from Mayor Adams, after KD publicly called him out, telling him to “figure it out” and repeatedly calling him “Eric.” Here’s hoping, anyway…

KD has been acting especially prickish lately, between that, the over-the-top trashtalking of Evan Fournier (I mean come on, it’s Evan Fournier!), and beating his chest about how amazing at basketball he is (which he is, but still). Will somebody, anybody, please knock him and Kyrie out of the playoffs?
 
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Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,621
I wonder if that was a little “don’t fvck with me” from Mayor Adams, after KD publicly called him out, telling him to “figure it out” and repeatedly calling him “Eric.” Here’s hoping, anyway…

KD has been acting especially prickish lately, between that, the over-the-top trashtalking of Evan Fournier (I mean come on, it’s Evan Fournier!), and beating his chest about how amazing at basketball he is (which he is, but still). Will somebody, anybody, please knock him and Kyrie out of the playoffs?
I know you’re a Dubs fan so you may have ignored it out of loyalty but this started basically after he realized how much people hated that move and has continued since.
The guy is just really hard to like…..him and Kyrie are perfect for each other
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,235
Imaginationland
I wonder if that was a little “don’t fvck with me” from Mayor Adams, after KD publicly called him out, telling him to “figure it out” and repeatedly calling him “Eric.” Here’s hoping, anyway…

KD has been acting especially prickish lately, between that, the over-the-top trashtalking of Evan Fournier (I mean come on, it’s Evan Fournier!), and beating his chest about how amazing at basketball he is (which he is, but still). Will somebody, anybody, please knock him and Kyrie out of the playoffs?
I'll cut him some slack for the Fournier thing, it wouldn't shock me if that's a bit personal given last year's playoffs:

View: https://youtu.be/qBwCF7_JS5s


The rest though, we've come a long long way since he got credit for quietly extending his contract with the Thunder way back in 2010 (contrasted against Lebron and the Decision):

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/08/sports/basketball/08durant.html

He joined one of the best teams in history as a free agent (and he's either an idiot or incredibly obtuse to not realize why that made most fans start to dislike him), was caught using burner accounts to defend himself on twitter, and generally acts like a dick whenever he's questioned. With the path he's chosen he should be embracing the villain role, but he doesn't seem to really be able to.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,621
I'll cut him some slack for the Fournier thing, it wouldn't shock me if that's a bit personal given last year's playoffs:

View: https://youtu.be/qBwCF7_JS5s


The rest though, we've come a long long way since he got credit for quietly extending his contract with the Thunder way back in 2010 (contrasted against Lebron and the Decision):

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/08/sports/basketball/08durant.html

He joined one of the best teams in history as a free agent (and he's either an idiot or incredibly obtuse to not realize why that made most fans start to dislike him), was caught using burner accounts to defend himself on twitter, and generally acts like a dick whenever he's questioned. With the path he's chosen he should be embracing the villain role, but he doesn't seem to really be able to.
I think you kind of nailed it at the end. All of the decisions he’s made would seem like he’d WANT to be a villain and I think he knows that and tried to play that role….but he also clearly cares a lot about what people think about him so it doesn’t work.

And you’re 100% correct about the joining the Warriors thing. If he was really surprised at the reaction he got, and it seems like he was, then…wow. Not sure how you could be that far removed from reality. Then again, he apparently also left Golden State because he realized that Golden State would always be Steph’s team….something literally anyone could have predicted from the beginning