Kristaps Porzingis to Celtics!!!!!

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,922
Pittsburgh, PA
Is there a stat similar to WAR for basketball?
Arguably 3. The advanced ratings systems: DARKO by @bowiac, RAPTOR by 538 and LEBRON by a couple of basketball geeks all produce a core rating that, IIRC, is basically a number of points per 100 possessions that the player will add to an average team. Then you add some distributions of team scoring and playing time and can convert to a WAR. I believe RAPTOR does this most readily, listing WAR right there for you next to their points score. But if you prefer the others - and most of us love DARKO - the scores they give are pretty comparable within a system, and don't lose much for not being scaled to wins.

I'm with Cellar-door. I'm fine with him playing 50-60, as I was willing to accept the possibility that Smart gets hurt and only plays 60 given what he added to the team. I'm willing to accept the possibility that Porzingis has a down-year offensively. But what Porzingis does bring to the table - a seven footer who knows how to protect the rim an defend the pick and roll - is just more valuable to me than Smart's free-safety stuff. And if the offensive improvement is real, than the upside for this deal is positively enormous.

That said, I'm not even really as excited about his offense or the upside as I am about plugging the gaping hole at center we had (yes, yes, prom night). At the end of the day I think they're both winning basketball players, only the Celtics needed a center badly and already had four point guards, one of who is admittedly not rotation quality in Pritchard (notwithstanding the comparison I made to FVV a couple years ago, which I have got deserving shit for ever since), but two of who are starting caliber in Brogdon and White.

I don't think Porzingis guarantees us a championship. I'm not assuming that he will be 100% healthy. I think if he's on the floor, the value he adds will more than cover for the loss of Marcus. Will we miss him? Sure. But we all wanted insurance against TL coming apart at the joints and Horford aging, and in order to do that, we had to give something up. It sucks, but them is the breaks.

It was my perception that Smart had lost a step, and my fear that heading into his 30's those injuries might accumulate or he might lose a step or his intensity on defense. That perception/fear might be incorrect. Perhaps he ages like Chris Paul - still effective defensively but missing chunks of time here and there. Or Tony Allen for that matter. Good for him, if so! Regardless, I think Porzingis is not only a better fit for this roster but exactly the sort of thing we needed.
This is a very reasonable and nuanced point of view, and therefore has no place here :)
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
10,253
San Francisco

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
5,006
Saint Paul, MN
Your point is a great one, and that plays into the C's end-of-game problems. Miami can get the ball to Butler, Philly to Embiid, Denver to Jokic, etc., and they'll generally either get a great shot for themselves or a teammate. The C's often have ended up settling for contested sidestep/stepback 3s by Tatum. As his post-up game continues to improve, that could generate higher-quality shots, but Porzingis should help immensely in the meantime.
Yea, whenever Butler demanded the ball in the high post, I was always like "fuck, he is going to score". Tatum or Brown need to develop that mentality and ability to really control the game when needed
 

dhellers

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2005
4,553
Silver Spring, Maryland
This thread notes KP's offensive capabilites, the hole he fills at Center, and his prior year playing time. And yet, why am I dourish? This line of thought seems germane...

For almost the entirety of the Brad Stevens/Danny Ainge era, or at least since both Jay's were on board... the Celtics have been searching for that one more dependable scorer. Someone who could create offense against a tight, but not necessarily focused-on-him, defense. AKA: a third option.

And injury demons have plagued this endeavor!
a) Gordon Hayward. Who lasted approximately 0.05 games. Perhaps not surprising for a "soft western conference player"
b) Isaiah Thomas. Good for about a year. Then breaks down in search of the Brinks Truck. Can't blame the Celts for that, IT had to know the risks of playing through injuries to prove he was a franchise type player
c) Kyrie Irving. Who lasts maybe a season (mental diarrhea/constipation being a clever form of injury demon)
d) Kemba Walker. Who lasts about 1/2 season, and then permanently breaks himself proving his grandeur in an all star game. But maybe he was going to physically implode during the playoffs, so should we be that mad?
e) Malcolm Brodgon. Despite careful attention to minutes, can't make it through the ECF without debilitating himself? And someone who a semi-desperate Clippers pass on.

If you think 5 observations gives you non-zero degrees of freedom .
.. If you observe an explanatory factor of someone with a body type that is susceptible to serious injuries in the NBA world (i.e. tall and lanky).
... If prior data reveals that serious injuries have occurred to this someone

Then... tell me, what be Kristin Porzingis's fate?
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
16,060
If he’s hurt it sucks…if he isn’t the C’s are a formidable title contender. He makes the Bell Curve of their potential outcomes a little less single curvy , I suppose.
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,666
If he’s hurt it sucks…if he isn’t the C’s are a formidable title contender. He makes the Bell Curve of their potential outcomes a little less single curvy , I suppose.
Fatter and flatter I think.

Replacing Smart with Porzingas makes this Celtics team better on paper but injuries can and will happen and as @dhellers outlines the Celtics have been bitten by that bug repeatedly. Improving probability of a championship is the best PBS can do but of course there are no guarantees.
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
6,059
Lynn
Smart is my second favorite Celtics player ever, behind Pierce. That said, this trade was such a no brainer. There aren’t many better fits for this team than Porzingis. Great post scorer, good passer out of the mid and high post, can play him in the dunker spot, and obviously can shoot. On top of that, he’s a dominant rim protector, and he’s just entering his prime.

Health is the wildcard obviously, just will hope for the best. Also, that Warriors pick could be really valuable, especially if they lose Draymond.
 

Montana Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 18, 2000
9,160
Twin Bridges, Mt.
Smart is my second favorite Celtics player ever, behind Pierce. That said, this trade was such a no brainer. There aren’t many better fits for this team than Porzingis. Great post scorer, good passer out of the mid and high post, can play him in the dunker spot, and obviously can shoot. On top of that, he’s a dominant rim protector, and he’s just entering his prime.
And while Porzingis was the plan, trading Marcus was the secondary option. Look at the execution Brad delivered once LAC opted out of taking Bronson. With a very slim window he flips immediately to Smart and then the following day trades his new #25 pick 4 times to get additional trade capital, drafts his guy Walsh and the next day signs the UDFA that he wanted as well (VVB).
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Yea, whenever Butler demanded the ball in the high post, I was always like "fuck, he is going to score". Tatum or Brown need to develop that mentality and ability to really control the game when needed
The difference between the two teams was stark. When Miami had the ball, Butler would get the matchup he wanted, and then everyone else would clear out.
It seemed to me far too common for Tatum to get a good matchup and then someone would come set another pick and get a better defender switched onto JT. If Strus or Lowry is on JT, and Bam or Butler is on you, DON’T TRY TO SET A PICK FOR JT!!!!!
 

Squeteague

New Member
May 8, 2021
28
This thread notes KP's offensive capabilites, the hole he fills at Center, and his prior year playing time. And yet, why am I dourish? This line of thought seems germane...

For almost the entirety of the Brad Stevens/Danny Ainge era, or at least since both Jay's were on board... the Celtics have been searching for that one more dependable scorer. Someone who could create offense against a tight, but not necessarily focused-on-him, defense. AKA: a third option.

And injury demons have plagued this endeavor!
a) Gordon Hayward. Who lasted approximately 0.05 games. Perhaps not surprising for a "soft western conference player"
b) Isaiah Thomas. Good for about a year. Then breaks down in search of the Brinks Truck. Can't blame the Celts for that, IT had to know the risks of playing through injuries to prove he was a franchise type player
c) Kyrie Irving. Who lasts maybe a season (mental diarrhea/constipation being a clever form of injury demon)
d) Kemba Walker. Who lasts about 1/2 season, and then permanently breaks himself proving his grandeur in an all star game. But maybe he was going to physically implode during the playoffs, so should we be that mad?
e) Malcolm Brodgon. Despite careful attention to minutes, can't make it through the ECF without debilitating himself? And someone who a semi-desperate Clippers pass on.

If you think 5 observations gives you non-zero degrees of freedom .
.. If you observe an explanatory factor of someone with a body type that is susceptible to serious injuries in the NBA world (i.e. tall and lanky).
... If prior data reveals that serious injuries have occurred to this someone

Then... tell me, what be Kristin Porzingis's fate?
Isaiah Thomas was better than “good for about a year”, he played 32.2 minutes a game over 179 games, averaging 24.6 points and 6 assists, played played with passion, even while hurt.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,891
It'll probably help when KP isn't playing with Larry, Curly and Moe for wings.
Remains to be seen. Dude had a monster season and his skills are undeniably nice - they fit great on paper.

That said, Porzingis has allegedly had some chemistry issues with teammates and coaches in NY & Dallas. It could all be noise or typical immaturity but he may actually prefer to play with those sorts of wings. We will find out.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
33,399
Remains to be seen. Dude had a monster season and his skills are undeniably nice - they fit great on paper.

That said, Porzingis has allegedly had some chemistry issues with teammates and coaches in NY & Dallas. It could all be noise or typical immaturity but he may actually prefer to play with those sorts of wings. We will find out.
You seem more down on Zinger than I have seen you about anything. It’s ok man, I love Smart too.

Reminder, Brad did break my rule on this one


JT, JB, and Smart are my guys. The rest are situational.

….

edit: oh yeah, I used to say this about Tatum regarding AD rumors but I rest my case on that; so now I will transfer it to my other guy: YOU NEVER TRADE MARCUS SMART.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,450
Remains to be seen. Dude had a monster season and his skills are undeniably nice - they fit great on paper.

That said, Porzingis has allegedly had some chemistry issues with teammates and coaches in NY & Dallas. It could all be noise or typical immaturity but he may actually prefer to play with those sorts of wings. We will find out.
Yup. If you were to map "certainty that they can help teams win big games in the playoffs" among gettable guys/free agents Draymond is at one end and while KP may not quite be at far other end, he can see it from where he is.

I say that liking the move and the player....but there is just no data to suggest one can be sure he is a winning, chemistry-positive player. That doesn't prove the negative (e.g. that he's Kyrie or Simmons) but it is worth noting and I suspect an element of Dejesus' concern here. Smart, on the other hand, has a pretty extensive record winning games even if (as we all know) it's not a perfect record. It's lazy media talking head to overrate how much of this is the player vs the situation ("he's a loser, he sucks, no matter what situation or whether he's really had a chance") but at least wondering about it is, to me, a pretty reasonable thing to be doing.

My hope? He's the number three and far better suited to that role, and he's maturing and more aware of the need to pass, etc. So I'm optimistic, but the data is what it is on his career to date.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,891
You seem more down on Zinger than I have seen you about anything. It’s ok man, I love Smart too.

Reminder, Brad did break my rule on this one
I am not down on the trade. I just see this a a much higher risk transaction than the Brogdon version for a variety of reasons. Others don't share those concerns and they may well be right. I can see banner 18 too but imo there are legitimate concerns about health and locker room fit.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,744
Yup. If you were to map "certainty that they can help teams win big games in the playoffs" among gettable guys/free agents Draymond is at one end and while KP may not quite be at far other end, he can see it from where he is.

I say that liking the move and the player....but there is just no data to suggest one can be sure he is a winning, chemistry-positive player. That doesn't prove the negative (e.g. that he's Kyrie or Simmons) but it is worth noting and I suspect an element of Dejesus' concern here. Smart, on the other hand, has a pretty extensive record winning games even if (as we all know) it's not a perfect record. It's lazy media talking head to overrate how much of this is the player vs the situation ("he's a loser, he sucks, no matter what situation or whether he's really had a chance") but at least wondering about it is, to me, a pretty reasonable thing to be doing.

My hope? He's the number three and far better suited to that role, and he's maturing and more aware of the need to pass, etc. So I'm optimistic, but the data is what it is on his career to date.
I think we all universally would have preferred the Brogdon deal but getting KP, 2024 Dubs 1st, Walsh, and 4 future 2nd rounders for Smart/35 (after all the trades) is a very good haul.

There is both considerable upside and downside with the key player swap so it’ll be fascinating to see how it plays out. If KP stays relatively healthy, I’m willing to bet we’ll all be quite pleased with the results. If he doesn’t, well, that was always the key risk in this deal.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,964
Santa Monica
A couple of random thoughts:
1. Porzingis played 65 games last season but sat out the last 6 while the Wizards tanked at the end. It would have been a career-high in minutes played if he didn't DNP
2. Horford played 30.5mpg last season, his highest average in the last 5 seasons. His minutes need to come down sharply.
3. TL, AL & Zing should be load managed. All 3 need to be shrink-wrapped during the regular season. This means no 40-minute games during the regular season, no back-to-backs for Al/TL
4. Barring further frontcourt additions, CJM should play Kornet ~15 mpg over the first 40 games and see if he can be their bulk Center. Just not all that concerned with the first half of the regular season, and want to see roles/depth developed.
5. Still look to add frontcourt 4/5 help.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,744
A couple of random thoughts:
1. Porzingis played 65 games last season but sat out the last 6 while the Wizards tanked at the end. It would have been a career-high in minutes played if he didn't DNP
2. Horford played 30.5mpg last season, his highest average in the last 5 seasons. His minutes need to come down sharply.
3. TL, AL & Zing should be load managed. All 3 need to be shrink-wrapped during the regular season. This means no 40-minute games during the regular season, no back-to-backs for Al/TL
4. Barring further frontcourt additions, CJM should play Kornet ~15 mpg over the first 40 games and see if he can be their bulk Center. Just not all that concerned with the first half of the regular season, and want to see roles/depth developed.
5. Still look to add frontcourt 4/5 help.
Yup. Load management is here to stay. Out of the top 20 scorers in the NBA, only 5 played 70+ games last year (Tatum, Young, Randle, Fox, LaVine). If KP plays 60ish games and is good for the playoffs, that’s a major win for this team. His versatility will be very valuable on nights when either AH or TL are out.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
10,253
San Francisco
Is there any evidence load management does anything?

It feels similar to pitch counts which everyone believes are good but have very little actual evidence. Maybe I'm wrong on that analogy, i haven't followed baseball since like 2013.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,103
around the way
Remains to be seen. Dude had a monster season and his skills are undeniably nice - they fit great on paper.

That said, Porzingis has allegedly had some chemistry issues with teammates and coaches in NY & Dallas. It could all be noise or typical immaturity but he may actually prefer to play with those sorts of wings. We will find out.
"Had chemistry issues in the malfunctioning organizations that are the Knicks and Mavericks probably belongs in the "pro" column for a player, much the same way "melted down because the Wolves are soft as a sneaker full of shit" belongs in the "pro" column for Butler.

Anyone who legit bears their heart and tells you what a great place to play the Garden was back in Zingis days or Dallas now...I'd honestly assume that they didn't care about winning at all.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
1,372
2. Horford played 30.5mpg last season, his highest average in the last 5 seasons. His minutes need to come down sharply.
Looking at averages can be a bit deceiving here, as the C’s load managed Al by giving him off days, no back-to-backs, etc. Outside of his 2020-2021 season shrink wrapped in OKC, Al’s 1922 minutes (in 63 games) played was his lowest total since 2013-2014. Now you can argue that figure is still too high, which hopefully a healthy Rob and an added Porzingis can facilitate. But I didn’t think that Al’s effectiveness faded until the postseason, when he wasn’t getting that extra rest, and even then the issue only manifested as a small sample of high variance three-point shots.
 
Last edited:

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
6,404
Cultural hub of the universe
Looking at averages can be a bit deceiving here, as the C’s load managed Al by giving him off days, no back-to-backs, etc. Outside of his 2020-2021 season shrink wrapped in OKC, Al’s 1922 minutes (in 63 games) played was his lowest total since 2013-2014. Now you can argue that figure is still too high, which hopefully a healthy Ron and an added Porzingis can facilitate. But I didn’t think that Al’s effectiveness faded until the postseason, when he wasn’t getting that extra rest, and even then the issue only manifested as a small sample of high variance three-point shots.
Spot on.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,964
Santa Monica
Looking at averages can be a bit deceiving here, as the C’s load managed Al by giving him off days, no back-to-backs, etc. Outside of his 2020-2021 season shrink wrapped in OKC, Al’s 1922 minutes (in 63 games) played was his lowest total since 2013-2014. Now you can argue that figure is still too high, which hopefully a healthy Ron and an added Porzingis can facilitate. But I didn’t think that Al’s effectiveness faded until the postseason, when he wasn’t getting that extra rest, and even then the issue only manifested as a small sample of high variance three-point shots.
Is there any evidence load management does anything?

It feels similar to pitch counts which everyone believes are good but have very little actual evidence. Maybe I'm wrong on that analogy, i haven't followed baseball since like 2013.
As we all know we can't prove Horford would have played better with fewer mpg or if more load management would have produced a better playoff Horford

BUT I suspect one of several reasons Brad said the "frontcourt was a position of need" was because he doesn't want a 37yr old Al Horford to play as many mpg next season.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,853
Hingham, MA
Was thinking something similar: rather than cutting minutes per game (potentially hurting career averages and egos and remaining value), giving whole games off makes sense.
I've raised this question before, but I would think that in a vacuum, 60 games at 30 minutes per game is probably more effective for preserving your body than 82 games at 22 minutes per game.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,094
Isle of Plum
I've raised this question before, but I would think that in a vacuum, 60 games at 30 minutes per game is probably more effective for preserving your body than 82 games at 22 minutes per game.
Seems pretty intuitive. It also has then benefit of having the 'load managed' player still adapted to longer minutes so when the need/matchup dicates in the playoffs they are 'stretched out'. By the same token though, it also limits the amount of time (for Cs in this case) that the bigs would be on the court together.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,964
Santa Monica
I've raised this question before, but I would think that in a vacuum, 60 games at 30 minutes per game is probably more effective for preserving your body than 82 games at 22 minutes per game.
agree. I'm expecting, if Horford is healthy, ~60 games at ~26mpg
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,990
I think we all universally would have preferred the Brogdon deal but getting KP, 2024 Dubs 1st, Walsh, and 4 future 2nd rounders for Smart/35 (after all the trades) is a very good haul.
Not me. I wouldn't trade Brogdon and 2 late firsts for Smart right now in a vacuum.

I think people are underestimating the likelihood that Smart declines into a guy without a single above-average NBA skill to point at in a year or two (toughness and intangibles being important but not skills per se). Brogdon has his warts but can reliably play certain roles— knocking down the open 3, taking smaller guards to the hoop— as long as he's healthy. And I don't see the health delta between Smart and Brogdon as being all that great right now (notwithstanding the recent report about Brogdon's elbow which, to me, smells a lot like post-trade CYA strategic leaking by one team or another).
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,744
Not me. I wouldn't trade Brogdon and 2 late firsts for Smart right now in a vacuum.

I think people are underestimating the likelihood that Smart declines into a guy without a single above-average NBA skill to point at in a year or two (toughness and intangibles being important but not skills per se). Brogdon has his warts but can reliably play certain roles— knocking down the open 3, taking smaller guards to the hoop— as long as he's healthy. And I don't see the health delta between Smart and Brogdon as being all that great right now (notwithstanding the recent report about Brogdon's elbow which, to me, smells a lot like post-trade CYA strategic leaking by one team or another).
Fair enough. I know most love Smart but I had the same concerns about him. I don’t love his body type and he was already showing real signs of slowing down this year. I don’t think he ages particularly well but maybe the trade will motivate him to get in better shape. I bet he has at least a few more years of being a quality NBA player but I think he’d be better off in a bench role soon. I’m pretty confident Brad sold at a high point or pretty close.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,964
Santa Monica
Fair enough. I know most love Smart but I had the same concerns about him. I don’t love his body type and he was already showing real signs of slowing down this year. I don’t think he ages particularly well but maybe the trade will motivate him to get in better shape. I bet he has at least a few more years of being a quality NBA player but I think he’d be better off in a bench role soon. I’m pretty confident Brad sold at a high point or pretty close.
agree with this & @m0ckduck

Not only did Brad sell high but immediately focused on the team that would have the highest demand/need for Marcus Smart.

While I view this as a good trade for Boston, I also like this deal for Memphis. Hope & expect Smart to have a bounce back year. Trades that benefit both sides is good business.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,990
Fair enough. I know most love Smart but I had the same concerns about him. I don’t love his body type and he was already showing real signs of slowing down this year. I don’t think he ages particularly well but maybe the trade will motivate him to get in better shape. I bet he has at least a few more years of being a quality NBA player but I think he’d be better off in a bench role soon. I’m pretty confident Brad sold at a high point or pretty close.
Maybe the formulation we can all agree with is that we’d be more comfortable with the Brogdon version of the trade, since it’s easier to quantify the loss of your 6th man who’s only been with the team for one season than your longest-tenured heart and soul guy, etc etc.

But I’m not convinced that version makes them a better team going forward.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,787
I love Smart but he had a pretty terrible playoffs. Harden had two ridiculous games and obviously Butler did whatever he wanted against Smart or White or Brown or Brogdon. I think White can hold his own against more players than Smart can.
He was clearly not the same after the wet floor injury in Toronto. This was an ongoing issue for him. But as for the “terminal decline” that some people have been saying that he was in (basically the same people that have been shrieking for Boston to trade Smart for five years or so now) I doubt it. He’ll likely be pretty good for Memphis, but that’s also the exact sort of team that you expect to trade for someone like Marcus, a contender in need of a jack of all trades type player. Boston currently has a shortage there, so I’m really hoping they make a run at Bruce Brown, because he’d be the perfect replacement.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,886
Somewhere
I would be pretty surprised if Smart doesn’t enjoy a Tony Allen-style renaissance in Memphis. I would have preferred the Clipper deal too, but both are excellent deals for the Celtics, just from a fit and positional scarcity perspective.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,787
Depending on what you think of him, Jalen Suggs is extremely available now also.
Suggs is an interesting case, he was abominable defensively as a rookie, last year he improved to averagish, or maybe unawful if you’re one of those judgey types. But offensively he was sort of a mess. His jumper improved a bit, but he took a step back as a playmaker. But part of the latter just might be that the Magic keep drafting PGs and bigs. He'd certainly be a buy low candidate.
 

PRabbit

New Member
Apr 3, 2022
121
If Cassell is as good as advertised developing guards, then Suggs would definitely be interesting as an option depending on cost.
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
1,372
BUT I suspect one of several reasons Brad said the "frontcourt was a position of need" was because he doesn't want a 37yr old Al Horford to play as many mpg next season.
I honestly think that the issue is less about 37yr old Al Horford next season and more 38yr old Al Horford the year following and 39yr old Al Horford the one after it. Brad was motivated to find a big whose peak coincides with the next three seasons of the Jays.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,787
Well sure, but I think there is a less than zero chance that Brown takes what BOS can offer. He got his title, he is going for his payday
I'll be shocked if he gets anything more than the MLE. He's a useful roleplayer and every contender needs a guy like Brown. But the new CBA is designed to squeeze guys like that. If they can send Brogdon someplace like Houston or San Antonio (i.e. teams looking for adults in the locker room) then they can execute a sign & trade with Denver (who're clearly looking to cut payroll).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,752
I would be pretty surprised if Smart doesn’t enjoy a Tony Allen-style renaissance in Memphis. I would have preferred the Clipper deal too, but both are excellent deals for the Celtics, just from a fit and positional scarcity perspective.
I think I'll take the other side of this. MEM needed someone - and not just anyone - to fill in while Ja is suspended but when Ja comes back, what is Smart going to do on offense? Sit in the corner and jack up 3Ps?

I think we all agree that Ime unlocked the best version of Marcus when Ime made him the PG and Marcus had the ball in his hands.

As we've discussed in the past, Marcus at the 2 isn't great unless his shot gets better. Which I guess is possible but man if he shoots 40% from 3P next year, I'm going to be wondering where that was.
 

Just a bit outside

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 6, 2011
8,324
Monument, CO
I'll be shocked if he gets anything more than the MLE. He's a useful roleplayer and every contender needs a guy like Brown. But the new CBA is designed to squeeze guys like that. If they can send Brogdon someplace like Houston or San Antonio (i.e. teams looking for adults in the locker room) then they can execute a sign & trade with Denver (who're clearly looking to cut payroll).
Denver can only sign Brown for 7.8. Does that make it impossible to do a sign and trade or can he sign with Denver for more if they know he is getting traded?
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,521
Denver can only sign Brown for 7.8. Does that make it impossible to do a sign and trade or can he sign with Denver for more if they know he is getting traded?
7.8 is his cap.
My guess is he pulls a Portis. Re-signs with the champs, with a "wink, wink" deal for a new contract once thye have Bird rights
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,886
Somewhere
As we've discussed in the past, Marcus at the 2 isn't great unless his shot gets better. Which I guess is possible but man if he shoots 40% from 3P next year, I'm going to be wondering where that was.
Presuming that Morant comes back, Marcus takes over Tyus Jones' role as the primary ballhandler on the second unit. But mostly he's going to be the 4th/5th option on offense with the starters. I don't see that as a problem for him because his biggest impact is going to be on defense.