Kobe Killed in Helicopter Crash

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
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Apr 23, 2010
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And I have zero doubt we will. When people are able to have a rational conversation about it. This is like asking a someone for money they owe you at a funeral.

No, it isn't. @luckysox was responding to another poster who was going overboard with the hagiography/what a wonderful human being he was. It was a completely legitimate perspective for her to contribute. And she was attacked by a couple of morons for it. Nobody is celebrating this, or saying it isn't a tragedy. Doubly so if his children were involved. But we're not at his funeral, we're on message board talking about the death of a public figure, that I don't think anyone here knew personally, with a complicated legacy. Nothing about it was out of bounds.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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Please shut up? The facts of that case are hardly important not but also contested. You obviously have a slant against him. Take it somewhere else, the man died today.
When mods take the trouble to post, you should read what it is they have to say.
 

cheekydave

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Cannot even imagine how a Mother buries her child leave alone her husband, whether you are a well know luminary or Joe the Plumber.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I don't understand the whole "can't you let the body go cold first?" bit. Did anyone say that after Osama Bin Laden died? I'm NOT comparing Kobe to OBL. Just pointing out the absurdity of the statement. If you think someone was a bad person, then why does there have to be a waiting period to say so?

At the same time, we all have our flaws, and it's a shame someone died. But I'm much more concerned about how his death is going to affect other people.
This is a big aside, but I have a bit of a problem with statements such as "Kobe was a rapist" because there's a difference between people doing bad things - even as horrible as raping someone- and that one thing being an intrinsic part of who they are. That's what a general statement that X is a rapist implies. Sometimes such statements are warranted, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes people commit unforgivable acts again and again without any remorse, sometimes they do a lot of good that has to be weighed against the bad they ve done, while also judging whether they tried to repent and redeem themselves.

The point is that we all do bad things, we all fail our moral code to one degree or another and we wouldn't want to be judged by the worst things we did in our lives, so let's show others the same degree of compassion we would like others to show to ourselves. I should grant that celebrity culture often allows celebrities to skate by without punishment for their transgressions which does to a certain degree warrant a healthy degree of skepticism towards them.
 

drbretto

guidence counselor
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Apr 10, 2009
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Might wanna try that one again.

You guys s both really need to stop assuming everyone you talked to is stupid. I wasn't aggreing with him, I turned his own words back to him. I stepped over his point so as not to get shit on my shoes.

I'm out, either way. I said my piece.
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god and the penis of
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It's telling to see my Twitter feed and see the range of people, many involved in a wide variety of sports and several who are not involved in sports at all, and see how many people were moved enough to tweet about this.

People deal with shocking events in different ways. Emotions are raw, and people may say things that they'll be embarrassed about later.Keep that in mind when responding to someone.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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As a side note, the NBA is in a tough spot here for a variety of reasons. But canceling basketball to honor Kobe Bryant, who was perhaps the poster child for being all about hoops, seems wrong even if I completely understand the sentiment.
Adam Silver is so PR savvy the NFL was rumored to be trying to poach him. I have a feeling he'll strike exactly the right note in honoring him before games tonight as well as a more focused celebration at the right time and place.

Kobe Bryant, among a handful of others, has put a whole lot of money in the pockets of every fellow NBA player (and the owners as well). Much as how the rest of the PGA tour ought to tithe to Tiger Woods for tripling their collective income over the past 20 years, the NBA has seen its fortunes shift dramatically as a result of the star power of Kobe and his contemporary NBA celebrities. There is no way they don't do it up big in his memory.

(and likewise, no way that they do anything but a full hagiography. You'll have to look to obits and website forums to get reminded of his odious acts)
 

Cesar Crespo

79
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Dec 22, 2002
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This is a big aside, but I have a bit of a problem with statements such as "Kobe was a rapist" because there's a difference between people doing bad things - even as horrible as raping someone- and that one thing being an intrinsic part of who they are. That's what a general statement that X is a rapist implies. Sometimes such statements are warranted, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes people commit unforgivable acts again and again without any remorse, sometimes they do a lot of good that has to be weighed against the bad they ve done, while also judging whether they tried to repent and redeem themselves.

The point is that we all do bad things, we all fail our moral code to one degree or another and we wouldn't want to be judged by the worst things we did in our lives, so let's show others the same degree of compassion we would like others to show to ourselves. I should grant that celebrity culture often allows celebrities to skate by without punishment for their transgressions which does to a certain degree warrant a healthy degree of skepticism towards them.
I don't think rape is a crime one can redeem themselves from and I'm sure I'm not alone. Rape is not just a bad thing.

edit: If you don't want to be labeled a rapist, don't rape.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
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Jun 27, 2006
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No?

edit. Talk all you want about him being a great athlete, and a great competitor.

Don't lie and say he was a great human when by all accounts, he was exactly not.
Jesus, this post is low. There are four children & a wife who just lost their farther and husband.
 

Bozo Texino

still hates Dave Kerpen
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You guys s both really need to stop assuming everyone you talked to is stupid. I wasn't aggreing with him, I turned his own words back to him. I stepped over his point so as not to get shit on my shoes.

I'm out, either way. I said my piece.
It's "peace."
 
Aug 11, 2019
387
I’ve ridden a helicopter once in my life and found it to be very uncomfortable. Was envisioning this situation the entire ride.
Never have ridden on one but when I was stationed in France in the USAF, there was some sort of conference going on in Paris and we had an Army copter shuttling people there. I was going on break after I finished my shift and was planning on going to Paris so I asked the pilot if I could catch a hop. He said the final trip for the day had room. There I was waiting for his return from Paris when the sirens went off. He managed to hit a power line just as he was getting back to my base. Total wipe-out. I caught the train.

Was a shock to learn about Bryant.
 

fletcherpost

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You know what? That's fair, Lose. I appreciate that comment and I can see that more clearly when it's pointed out that way.
What a classy post. (Or what i consider to be classy). To my mind, I need your point of view. It might not be what everyone wants to hear but, we're adults, we ought to be able to take it.

File this under 'don't go, stay.'
 

oumbi

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Yes it is. The action is too fast and furious right now to separate it into 2 or more distinct threads. Maybe a few hours from now, but for now all topics are legitimate, and it is not required that SoSH say only good things about the dead. Drop the personal insults aimed at individual posters, however.
Thank you.
 

IdiotKicker

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I think it’s really important to remember the word “and” as I try to process this. Kobe was the most dominant athlete I’ve seen live in my lifetime. I couldn’t stand the Lakers and hoped he would lose every game he played. Eventually, I had to admit just how good he was. At the same time, he’s a human being who made some awful decisions in his life that hurt preople tremendously.

Where I’ve landed so far is that you can still mourn the loss of life at a young age, appreciate the greatness he showed on the court, and also acknowledge that he led a life that had both incredible selfishness and generosity. Kobe isn’t a saint - he did some really awful things. He can be all of his best and all of his worst today, because that’s what his life actually was.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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Yes it is. The action is too fast and furious right now to separate it into 2 or more distinct threads. Maybe a few hours from now, but for now all topics are legitimate, and it is not required that SoSH say only good things about the dead. Drop the personal insults aimed at individual posters, however.
Maybe @SeoulSoxFan should take note too re his “this is low” post.
 

amfox1

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Sources: Kobe Bryant was on his way to a travel basketball game with his daughter Gianna when the helicopter crashed. Those aboard the helicopter also included another player and parent.
 

YTF

Member
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Please shut up? The facts of that case are hardly important not but also contested. You obviously have a slant against him. Take it somewhere else, the man died today.
If you think luckysox opinion of Kobe Bryant doesn't matter, then I guess you're of the opinion that only you and your high horse matter when it comes to who has a say on the matter
 

findguapo

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Apr 7, 2006
838
Passengers appear to have been Kobe, Kobe's daughter, daughters teammate and parent, and pilot.
 

The Napkin

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This is a big aside, but I have a bit of a problem with statements such as "Kobe was a rapist" because there's a difference between people doing bad things - even as horrible as raping someone- and that one thing being an intrinsic part of who they are. That's what a general statement that X is a rapist implies. Sometimes such statements are warranted, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes people commit unforgivable acts again and again without any remorse, sometimes they do a lot of good that has to be weighed against the bad they ve done, while also judging whether they tried to repent and redeem themselves.
I have a bit of a problem with rape. YMMV.
 

amRadio

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Feb 7, 2019
297
I just think it's gross to take a moment to tape dance on the mans grave on the day he and his daughter died because you enjoy taking a political stance on the internet. Such phony virtue signalling. I see nobody claiming he was a role model. To attack him as a rapist right now seems phony and gross. All I have and will have to say on that.

RIP Kobe and Gianni Maria (hope that's ok to say here)
 
Five people died in a helicopter crash. Am I the only one thinking at all about the people who died whose surname wasn't Bryant, and whose surviving family members probably don't have virtually unlimited funds going forward to help them grieve? This is a tragedy for everyone involved - including the Bryants, but by no means limited to them.
 

luckysox

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Folks, this is news. It is big news that one of the biggest basketball stars of all time is dead. What he did or didn't do in his life should not prevent us from having a discussion about how big a loss this is to the game of basketball, to his family, and to fans of the league. You should remind yourself that admiring athletes for their talent and accomplishments doesn't mean you admire the person as a role model.

I grew up with Kobe, Jordan, and Shaq. I'm the white kid on the court in Brooklyn who would scream Kobe every time I made a shot (rarely). So, yea this stings. If you want to take that from me by reminding me of the rape accusations, do it later. You don't remind people at a funeral how the person who they're all mourning was flawed. If you do, I recommend posting on the "amitheasshole" reddit.
Crow, I grew up playing ball during the same era and I pretended I was Jordan and all the same shit you're saying. I'm sorry to rain on your admiration parade, but tough shit. Go ahead and mourn him. I'm not telling you not to. I'm saying that those of you who only want to see him as a basketball player are not the only ones who get space in discussing him upon his untimely death. It does NOT make me an asshole that YOU are offended by people pointing out that the guy was a fucking rapist, AS WELL AS being a phenomenal basketball player, and a man who gave millions of dollars to charity and a father and a husband and the face of LA sports and and and...he was all of these things. I think it's important not to forget the bad part off who he was. It was that bad. And make no mistake that it had an effect on how women decide whether or not they will report being raped.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
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Dec 22, 2002
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I just think it's gross to take a moment to tape dance on the mans grave on the day he and his daughter died because you enjoy taking a political stance on the internet. Such phony virtue signalling. I see nobody claiming he was a role model. To attack him as a rapist right now seems phony and gross. All I have and will have to say on that.

RIP Kobe and Gianni Maria (hope that's ok to say here)
What exactly is the political stance here? Pro and Anti Rape? I don't follow.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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I just think it's gross to take a moment to tape dance on the mans grave on the day he and his daughter died because you enjoy taking a political stance on the internet. Such phony virtue signalling. I see nobody claiming he was a role model. To attack him as a rapist right now seems phony and gross. All I have and will have to say on that.

RIP Kobe and Gianni Maria (hope that's ok to say here)
Literally no one has tap danced. No one is celebrating his death. Including @luckysox
 

The Allented Mr Ripley

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I have already let you know what a tool you are for bringing 15 year old accusations into a thread about a storied sports star's tragic death. I'm leaving now, but make sure you stay here and guard the thread to make sure that any latecomers know that Kobe Bryant wasn't Jesus Christ. Everyone is confused on that, and you're performing a valuable service.
You're a fucking piece of shit. I hope you're torn apart by a rabid dog.
 

drbretto

guidence counselor
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Apr 10, 2009
9,528
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You're in a sports forum where there are going to be all sorts of different opinions, and you have to accept that. I'm sure there is a much different atmosphere at /r/Lakers. I'm not telling you to get the f*** out, as others have done, despicably - just pointing out that there needs to be different expectations.

Perhaps we need a grieving only thread.
Or perhaps a grieving only day. Maybe?

I'm actually not upset it was brought up. It was your line that didn't understand why people would be upset. If you can't understand how it could upset people, then maybe you're not as empathetic as you think you are.

This isn't political. No one was even whitewashing. The Clemente comment in context was about magnitude, not life story. And I understand the people bringing up the past also grieving, but man, when I go to a funeral, I bury that shit for a day.

We will be discussing his legacy, all if it, in great detail for a really long time to come. It's a great conversation to have. But if people really don't see how this is to someone just in shock, who just naturally gravitates towards trying to remember the good in someone, might get upset right now?? I'm genuinely concerned.

I'm Sorry man. I generally like you, abd I don't hate you now either, but you know, for a group of people always out to get everyone else to listen to what they have to say, I don't think some of you are very good listeners either.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Jesus, this post is low. There are four children & a wife who just lost their farther and husband.
I disagree. TSC isn't saying "I'm glad he's dead" or even "let's emphasize his bad qualities to his grieving family", TSC was saying "I don't think you need a hagiography of Kobe when discussing him on SoSH".
 
Feb 19, 2015
3,148
I just think it's gross to take a moment to tape dance on the mans grave on the day he and his daughter died because you enjoy taking a political stance on the internet. Such phony virtue signalling. I see nobody claiming he was a role model. To attack him as a rapist right now seems phony and gross. All I have and will have to say on that.

RIP Kobe and Gianni Maria (hope that's ok to say here)
The post that started this derail called him a great person. You're a jerk to presume anybody is virtue signalling or bringing politics into this. Fuck off.
 

Average Game James

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Apr 28, 2016
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The magnitude of this in terms of how big of a figure he was is kinda crazy to comprehend. I mean, Kobe is to LA what Ortiz or Brady is to New England or Jeter was to NY. As a Boston fan, there are few guys I’ve rooted against harder - he really added to my enjoyment of sports.

I’ll think about my feelings on his legacy later, I guess, but for now, prayers to the families that lost spouses and children this morning.
 

h8mfy

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Jul 15, 2005
286
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All local outlets that have news departments have preempted programming - Golf, skating, pro bowl, college hoops and infomercials - in anticipation of the 2pm news conference.
 

Bozo Texino

still hates Dave Kerpen
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I just think it's gross to take a moment to tape dance on the mans grave on the day he and his daughter died because you enjoy taking a political stance on the internet. Such phony virtue signalling. I see nobody claiming he was a role model. To attack him as a rapist right now seems phony and gross. All I have and will have to say on that.

RIP Kobe and Gianni Maria (hope that's ok to say here)
Ooh. "Virtue signaling." I'm one "outrage culture" away from bingo.

As far as "nobody was claiming he was a role model" goes...

Forget basketball, he seemed like a genuinely good person who had the means and the desire to help society be a better place to be. Whoever said Clemente was right, this is pretty much this generation's version of that.
That's sorta what kicked this whole thing off.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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I just think it's gross to take a moment to tape dance on the mans grave on the day he and his daughter died because you enjoy taking a political stance on the internet. Such phony virtue signalling. I see nobody claiming he was a role model. To attack him as a rapist right now seems phony and gross. All I have and will have to say on that.

RIP Kobe and Gianni Maria (hope that's ok to say here)
There have been enough opinions shared about the appropriateness of discussing Kobe's dark side that I won't add my own.

However, to the bolded: you're going to need to bring some better receipts if you're going to accuse fellow posters of being "phony" in their opinions. To the contrary, I doubt luckysox - herself a survivor of rape IIRC - could be more serious about anything. And likewise TSC and the various others for whom this is an issue that is deeply emotionally felt, and dominates whatever else they might think about Kobe Bryant. To be "virtue signalling" would require that they be posting to earn the approval of the group despite feeling differently. Given the pile of shit dumped on them, it seems "phone virtue signalling" is exactly 180-degrees backwards. They chose to state an unpopular opinion, precisely because that's their sincerely-held truth.

You're welcome to disagree with their perspective, but accusing them of bad-faith posting without the slightest hint of evidence of that is pretty shitty by you.

Ooh. "Virtue signaling." I'm one "outrage culture" away from bingo.
I can beat you to it, I just need "snowflakes".

Reminds me of:
 

Ramon AC

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Apr 19, 2002
2,656
What?
People should get used to rape and sexual assault being mentioned soon after a celebrity dies, unexpectedly or not. If Roethlisberger, Tyson, Spacey, Louis CK, or any other of a thousand others died in a helicopter crash today, you better believe those events would be discussed. The reactions and counter-reactions seen in this thread are going to play out frequently in the coming decades. I suspect those demanding forbearance are going to be disappointed in the way this plays out over and over and over.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
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Dec 22, 2002
11,460
Or perhaps a grieving only day. Maybe?

I'm actually not upset it was brought up. It was your line that didn't understand why people would be upset. If you can't understand how it could upset people, then maybe you're not as empathetic as you think you are.

This isn't political. No one was even whitewashing. The Clemente comment in context was about magnitude, not life story. And I understand the people bringing up the past also grieving, but man, when I go to a funeral, I bury that shit for a day.

We will be discussing his legacy, all if it, in great detail for a really long time to come. It's a great conversation to have. But if people really don't see how this is to someone just in shock, who just naturally gravitates towards trying to remember the good in someone, might get upset right now?? I'm genuinely concerned.

I'm Sorry man. I generally like you, abd I don't hate you now either, but you know, for a group of people always out to get everyone else to listen to what they have to say, I don't think some of you are very good listeners either.
And you don't see how the victims of rape could possibly be triggered by Kobe Bryant's death?