Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

[Eddie Jurak]

I will accept your language. There is still no proof that it would have *improved* their chances. It may well have but nobody here can say for sure, yet folks feel pretty sure of their view.

Forgive me if I am open to the argument that the best chance there is against a scrambling defense and lesser personnel. I am not saying its correct but its a strategy NBA teams use regularly.

Again, I would have called a timeout there but I am not confident at all that it would have improved the team's shot at winning.

Better execution without the timeout would have improved their chances. (For example, any play that resulted in a shot being taken would have improved their chances). To me, the fact that they could not execute a play that resulted in a shot there strongly weighs in favor of the timeout.

Maybe Mazzulla is right to want to go off the made basket, but wrong (for now) to think his players are able to execute that play.

 

[benhogan]

Karalis continues with the G4/TO Debate

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1_PWzVjJOQ

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

The early one wouldn't be a game winner. Philly would have time to take the game winner. Now the fact that the Sixers didn't have a timeout is all the more reason he would never mean this. Going early gives them a chance to score even without a TO. Scoring with :02-:03 gives them little chance and of course Mazzulla knows this which is precisely why he didn't go early. The play was never designed to get a shot off at the buzzer.....it was with a couple seconds for a follow chance but not enough for Philly to get down the floor on a make.

Having been staying out of this but just heard Scalabrine (from the post-game show) - who watches a lot more NBA than I do - mention that whether or not the Cs took a TO, the biggest issue is that down 1, a team can't run the clock down to get the last shot. The team has to play it fast, get a good shot, and then if it misses, it can foul and get a second chance to tie.

He says no NBA team runs the clock down when the team is trailing by 1 in the last seconds, and when the Cs didn't get started immediately, that's when the TO should have been taken. He basically said, "That's not the way the NBA plays this situation."

You also watch a lot more basketball than I do but I'll say that I've always heard that down 1 teams want to shoot the ball with a few seconds left on the clock for the OReb.

I'll also note that Abby/Forsberg suggested on the pod that one of the reasons JT hesitated in going is because he was waiting for the double-team to come.

In retrospect, while I'm okay with Joe wanting the team to play through things, when the Cs walked the ball up the court and seemed to struggle to get organized, I think Joe should have called a TO and remind them when they needed to go.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Having been staying out of this but just heard Scalabrine (from the post-game show) - who watches a lot more NBA than I do - mention that whether or not the Cs took a TO, the biggest issue is that down 1, a team can't run the clock down to get the last shot. The team has to play it fast, get a good shot, and then if it misses, it can foul and get a second chance to tie.

He says no NBA team runs the clock down when the team is trailing by 1 in the last seconds, and when the Cs didn't get started immediately, that's when the TO should have been taken. He basically said, "That's not the way the NBA plays this situation."

You also watch a lot more basketball than I do but I'll say that I've always heard that down 1 teams want to shoot the ball with a few seconds left on the clock for the OReb.

I'll also note that Abby/Forsberg suggested on the pod that one of the reasons JT hesitated in going is because he was waiting for the double-team to come.

In retrospect, while I'm okay with Joe wanting the team to play through things, when the Cs walked the ball up the court and seemed to struggle to get organized, I think Joe should have called a TO and remind them when they needed to go.

Agree with all this. The play was clearly designed to move sooner. When Joe realized that wasn’t happening, he probably should have called a timeout to settle them down and clarify the plan. Coaches do that all the time. With less time, Tatum is probably more decisive in his moves and at least gets off some kind of shot. At some point, these lessons need to start sticking but, for now, just get the W tonight.

 

[benhogan]

CJM addressed the team about end-of-the-game mistake/timeout usage.

We're clearly past the point of IF this was right or wrong.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb6zGIjei7I

 

[djbayko]

I don't buy the coach-speak as not allowing the defense to set and substitute w time to prepare has been a staple of his style. He's getting real good at this coach-speak stuff but I doubt anyone is buying the "multiple attempts" line. Good lord, yeah let's plan for the game winning shot with the expectation to miss.

That's a weird way of putting it, but yeah, sure. You're planning for the game winning shot but also leaving yourself and out in case things don't go perfectly. Because things very often don't go perfectly. Even the best players in the league miss a large percentage of their shots, and the other team is trying equally as hard as you are to stop you from scoring and taking the lead.

 

[Red Averages]

That's a weird way of putting it, but yeah, sure. You're planning for the game winning shot but also leaving yourself and out in case things don't go perfectly. Because things very often don't go perfectly. Even the best players in the league miss a large percentage of their shots, and the other team is trying equally as hard as you are to stop you from scoring and taking the lead.

What is the probability team A (currently losing) winning will score when down 1 with say 10 seconds? That's their chance of winning if they milk it to 0.

What is the probability of Team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds, then stopping Team B with 4 seconds?

What is the probability of team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds and failing on the first attempt and getting a rebound with 1-2 seconds left?

What is the probability of team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds and failing on the first attempt and NOT getting a rebound with 1-2 seconds left with team B shooting free throws?

I know which path I take.

 

[benhogan]

What is the probability team A (currently losing) winning will score when down 1 with say 10 seconds? That's their chance of winning if they milk it to 0.

What is the probability of Team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds, then stopping Team B with 4 seconds?

What is the probability of team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds and failing on the first attempt and getting a rebound with 1-2 seconds left?

What is the probability of team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds and failing on the first attempt and NOT getting a rebound with 1-2 seconds left with team B shooting free throws?

I know which path I take.

Some of it was

Team A had 2 timeouts
Team B had 0 timeouts

That matters hugely when playing the foul game, half court out of bounds & Team B needing to go fast with a make (especially with Maxey out, which I was promised)

 

[Auger34]

The coach has both publicly and privately said he should have taken a timeout….I don’t think that’s coach speak, I think that’s rewatching and reassessing what happened and determining he made a mistake

 

[Cellar-Door]

yeah, I think not taking a timeout isn't in itself a mistake, but more so not communicating with the players to make sure they go on time (and know PHI has no timeouts) is a mistake, and the easiest way to avoid that mistake was probably to call timeout.

I actually like the strategic choice to not take the timeout right after the 3 and let PHI sub, and if he could have communicated well enough that Tatum starts that action sooner... no worries. But Tatum starts the action way too late. Live I thought PHI still had 1 timeout, which makes the risky play of going for the win vs. extending reasonable, but with no TO, I feel like Tatum has to make sure that shot is going up by Him or the open man from 3 with at least 2 seconds left.

So in hindsight I agree with Scal, no timeout on the shot, but when you get to 10 seconds or less and Tatum doesn't look like he's going to start his drive... well then you re-set and if PHI subs so be it.

 

[the moops]

The coach has both publicly and privately said he should have taken a timeout….I don’t think that’s coach speak, I think that’s rewatching and reassessing what happened and determining he made a mistake

Not sure. Privately he says it so he has his players back. Wants to take the blame away from them.

Publicly he says it so he doesn't have to answer the same question over and over

 

[djbayko]

What is the probability team A (currently losing) winning will score when down 1 with say 10 seconds? That's their chance of winning if they milk it to 0.

What is the probability of Team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds, then stopping Team B with 4 seconds?

What is the probability of team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds and failing on the first attempt and getting a rebound with 1-2 seconds left?

What is the probability of team A winning when attempting to score with 6 seconds and failing on the first attempt and NOT getting a rebound with 1-2 seconds left with team B shooting free throws?

I know which path I take.

There are a ton of other permutations. For me; it’s actually less about getting more actuals shot attempts and more about giving yourself more opportunity to find a good shot if something goes wrong or the defense stuffs your first idea. When Tatum drive with 4 seconds, everything hinges on the success of that drive…and the other team knows it too.

I’ll gladly give the other team a couple seconds we (maybe) didn’t end up using if it increases our chances if getting a good look and taking the lead.

 

[benhogan]

Not sure. Privately he says it so he has his players back. Wants to take the blame away from them.

Publicly he says it so he doesn't have to answer the same question over and over

or a coach made a mistake and owned it

maybe Joe is providing the Cellar with a learning lesson?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

That's a weird way of putting it, but yeah, sure. You're planning for the game winning shot but also leaving yourself and out in case things don't go perfectly. Because things very often don't go perfectly. Even the best players in the league miss a large percentage of their shots, and the other team is trying equally as hard as you are to stop you from scoring and taking the lead.

Tatum began his penetration not to score at the buzzer but with :02-:03 seconds remaining which leaves a follow up attempt without Philly having a chance to score with no timeouts. He mistimed it but not for one second does a "2-for-1" exist within this possession as some are incorrectly saying. The shot clock was off.

 

[Just a bit outside]

Tatum began his penetration not to score at the buzzer but with :02-:03 seconds remaining which leaves a follow up attempt without Philly having a chance to score with no timeouts. He mistimed it but not for one second does a "2-for-1" exist within this possession as some are incorrectly saying. The shot clock was off.

I feel like you are being purposely obtuse.

There were 4 possibilities in this situation.
1. Timeout and play for the last shot.
2. Timeout and run the offense but try and take the shot before 8 seconds so if you miss you can get a rebound or commit a foul to have another chance to score.
3. No timeout and play for the last shot.
4. No timeout and run the offense but try and take the shot before 8 seconds so if you miss you can get a rebound or commit a foul to have another chance to score.

It seems pretty obvious that a lot of people feel that choice 2 was the best option. I don't think anyone, even if they said 2 for 1, means there was a true 2 for 1 opportunity. They mean they might have a second chance to tie or win the game.

 

[Auger34]

yeah, I think not taking a timeout isn't in itself a mistake, but more so not communicating with the players to make sure they go on time (and know PHI has no timeouts) is a mistake, and the easiest way to avoid that mistake was probably to call timeout.

I actually like the strategic choice to not take the timeout right after the 3 and let PHI sub, and if he could have communicated well enough that Tatum starts that action sooner... no worries. But Tatum starts the action way too late. Live I thought PHI still had 1 timeout, which makes the risky play of going for the win vs. extending reasonable, but with no TO, I feel like Tatum has to make sure that shot is going up by Him or the open man from 3 with at least 2 seconds left.

So in hindsight I agree with Scal, no timeout on the shot, but when you get to 10 seconds or less and Tatum doesn't look like he's going to start his drive... well then you re-set and if PHI subs so be it.

Was anyone arguing the first paragraph? I can’t remember anyone arguing that point.

Pretty much everyone arguing for the timeout on this board was saying exactly what Scal said (and still got push back from you, among others)

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I was at game last night, and it was interesting to watch both benches during timeouts.

First, playoff breaks are longer: 3:00 on average.

During those 3:00, the Sixers were in a huddle for the first 2:30 - all of it, talking as a group. Sometimes they broke huddle a bit before end and lingered around in small groups

The Celtics, consistently, started each stoppage in play with a 'coaches huddle' wtih CJM and assistants out on the court (by the lane) talking---for 1:30 - 2:15 of the 3:00 minutes. Then CJM would come back to the bench and say a few things; some timeouts he would diagram something some he'd say a few words, one in third quarter he came back in and did a fist pump and said one thing and then they broke the huddle. During that 1:30 - 2:15 the players were on the bench talking, joking, whatever with no coaches there. Sometimes Smart or a vet would talk some; sometimes they all just sat there and chatted informally while coaches huddled. I have seen coaching huddles before, but never that long or consistently and usually when I see it, one assistant or someone is with the players while the others are chatting. I gotta say---it did not look great to me.

Curious if ReggieCleveland or someone else has any reaction to above.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Give the man his flowers.... made a big decision to change the rotation and it paid off. Won a challenge, used his timeouts well in the 4th, got the team to lock in defensively in a game where the offense was a mess, and fired up the guards by pretending he might play Pritchard if they came out lazy.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Give the man his flowers.... made a big decision to change the rotation and it paid off. Won a challenge, used his timeouts well in the 4th, got the team to lock in defensively in a game where the offense was a mess, and fired up the guards by pretending he might play Pritchard if they came out lazy.

This is why I wouldn’t want to fire Mazzula regardless of what happens from here. He’s clearly learning on the job (and learning how to coach in the playoffs is a totally different animal than learning how to coach in the regular season).

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Above all, the defense was locked in—he had both the adjustments and the motivation going tonight

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Give the man his flowers.... made a big decision to change the rotation and it paid off. Won a challenge, used his timeouts well in the 4th, got the team to lock in defensively in a game where the offense was a mess, and fired up the guards by pretending he might play Pritchard if they came out lazy.

Yeah the fake leak of playing Pritchard, if that's what happened, was genius. It made absolutely zero sense against these physical Philly guards who also are excellent at hunting matchups....but it just may have helped get them to come out fast.

 

[chilidawg]

Now if he'd just get Tatum a double espresso an hour before game he'd be all time.

 

[Seabass]

Listening to The Lowe Post -- Zach makes it fairly clear that the call to go to two bigs did not come from Joe Mazz. He did give the caveat that all teams get this kind of input from higher ups, but it's worth listening to for sure.

 

[Euclis20]

Brad Stevens has more HC experience (at any level) than the entire coaching staff combined, no? I'd hope he's provided some pretty firm input with the season on the line.

 

[Red Averages]

I was at game last night, and it was interesting to watch both benches during timeouts.

First, playoff breaks are longer: 3:00 on average.

During those 3:00, the Sixers were in a huddle for the first 2:30 - all of it, talking as a group. Sometimes they broke huddle a bit before end and lingered around in small groups

The Celtics, consistently, started each stoppage in play with a 'coaches huddle' wtih CJM and assistants out on the court (by the lane) talking---for 1:30 - 2:15 of the 3:00 minutes. Then CJM would come back to the bench and say a few things; some timeouts he would diagram something some he'd say a few words, one in third quarter he came back in and did a fist pump and said one thing and then they broke the huddle. During that 1:30 - 2:15 the players were on the bench talking, joking, whatever with no coaches there. Sometimes Smart or a vet would talk some; sometimes they all just sat there and chatted informally while coaches huddled. I have seen coaching huddles before, but never that long or consistently and usually when I see it, one assistant or someone is with the players while the others are chatting. I gotta say---it did not look great to me.

Curious if ReggieCleveland or someone else has any reaction to above.

I was at the NBA Finals last year and what you describe is exactly what happened with Kerr/Warriors huddling vs Ime having a coach meeting and briefly (or not) connecting back with the players. I found it incredibly disconcerting.

 

[zak1013]

I was at the NBA Finals last year and what you describe is exactly what happened with Kerr/Warriors huddling vs Ime having a coach meeting and briefly (or not) connecting back with the players. I found it incredibly disconcerting.

Saw this during the ECF last year as well and was similarly surprised!

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I was at the NBA Finals last year and what you describe is exactly what happened with Kerr/Warriors huddling vs Ime having a coach meeting and briefly (or not) connecting back with the players. I found it incredibly disconcerting.

This isn't uncommon and I'm no Kerr fan. Leadership is going to come from a player(s) who is going to impact the play. Many times the (veteran/star) player is going to speak up and tell the coach what is going to work. We saw the clip of Horford leading the huddle and Smart has done it often too. Ideally you'd like to see Tatum be that guy and maybe he is at times but I don't see the huddles during TO much. That's one of the benefits of attending games live....you pick up so much more of that stuff.

 

[djbayko]

Please tell me there's video of this exchange.

View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1656850939947409412

Jared Weiss
@JaredWeissNBA
What was Joe Mazzulla’s message to Jayson Tatum?

“Tell him I love him.”

That’s it?

“That’s a pretty powerful statement.

Gonna tell him that for Game 7?

“Multiple times. Over and over again. And the rest of the team.”

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I don't really care how many notes Mazzulla gets from upstairs or the locker room - implementing adjustments is the coaches job. Mazzulla did that this series.

He is by no means perfect but he is consistently showing the ability to adjust, at least in-series. And its part of the reason (obviously talent is the main driver) the team is moving on. This is how veteran coaches are made.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

I don't really care how many notes Mazzulla gets from upstairs or the locker room - implementing adjustments is the coaches job. Mazzulla did that this series.

He is by no means perfect but he is consistently showing the ability to adjust, at least in-series. And its part of the reason (obviously talent is the main driver) the team is moving on. This is how veteran coaches are made.

If anything we know he is no Grady Little, who famously gave little credence to the analytics coming from upstairs with his decisions. Mazzulla's game decisions could use more seasoning as would anyone's in their first season, but if you are listening to your talented front office that is half the battle.

 

[chilidawg]

Great piece on Mazzulla from Steve Buckley. Here's a couple excerpts:

When you get right down to it, this is part of the reason Celtics president of basketball operations Brad Stevens looked to Mazzulla to be his interim coach after Ime Udoka was suspended: They needed someone with the smarts to manage the team, hoping the coaching chops would come later. And up till now — that is, up till Sunday — it was the coaching stuff that was bothering Celtics watchers, such as Mazzulla’s not calling a timeout at just the right time, as veteran coaches do with magnificent flair. Mazzulla was rightly criticized for not calling a timeout in the crucial last seconds of Game 4 against the Sixers, but then, a day later, he did something that is going to pay dividends in the years to come: He acknowledged he should have called a timeout in that situation.

It didn’t help the Celtics win Game 5. But look what happened in Game 6: For the first time in the playoffs, the Celtics weren’t just a collection of fine players. They were a fine team, with Mazzulla’s saying after that one, “There was a level of intensity, a level of togetherness and connectivity that the guys had to where we were able to communicate different stuff.”
See, that’s not a manager talking. That’s a coach talking, and not just speaking the words because they sound good but because they are completely honest and to the point in explaining what propelled the Celtics to victory in Game 6.



https://theathletic.com/4519476/2023/05/14/boston-celtics-philadelphia-76ers-game-7-nba-playoffs/

 

[ehaz]

Man, Mazzula REALLY likes The Town.

View: https://twitter.com/gqsports/status/1658943960302202880?s=46

 

[Auger34]

Man, Mazzula REALLY likes The Town.

View: https://twitter.com/gqsports/status/1658943960302202880?s=46

My friend texted me this article. That can’t be true….4 fucking times a week?!

 

[NomarsFool]

I can't imagine watching any movie 4X a week.

 

[TripleOT]

No truth to the rumor that Mazzulla has the team staying in Tangerine Florida for the ECF road games.

 

[bosockboy]

He better win #18 or he’ll have to go see The Florist.

 

[Euclis20]

I can't imagine watching any movie 4X a week.

He is awfully young. My 4 year old does this all the time.

 

[Red Averages]

It’s currently the 3rd quarter but regardless of the outcome, can someone explain the thought process behind playing Payton with Butler out there (who killed him last postseason) and then starting the 3rd with a huge lead and witnessing your offense becoming stagnant with the Heat scoring at will in transition without a timeout? Simultaneously over-coaching and then forgetting to coach by utilizing timeouts, the same flaw over and over again.

 

[Red Averages]

It’s currently the 3rd quarter but regardless of the outcome, can someone explain the thought process behind playing Payton with Butler out there (who killed him last postseason) and then starting the 3rd with a huge lead and witnessing your offense becoming stagnant with the Heat scoring at will in transition without a timeout? Simultaneously over-coaching and then forgetting to coach by utilizing timeouts, the same flaw over and over again.

Puts him back in the 3rd for some reason;

butler isolated him, forces a double -> heat 3.
next possession Lowry P&Rs him. Easy 2.
next possession Heat 3.

just astonishing levels of incompetence.

 

[Euclis20]

It's one of the most surprisingly random substitutions I can remember. He may have some value at some point in the series, if the offense or energy needs a jumpstart, or if there is injury or foul trouble. Putting him in in game 1 is baffling.

 

[ehaz]

It's one of the most surprisingly random substitutions I can remember. He may have some value at some point in the series, if the offense or energy needs a jumpstart, or if there is injury or foul trouble. Putting him in in game 1 is baffling.

Has he had a substitution pattern this postseason that isn’t random? His whole management of the bench has just been to change up the 8th guy, bring them in cold after sitting for an entire series, and putting them in a position to fail. Hauser plays some decent minutes against the Hawks, never heard from again. Same thing with Grant. Now it’s PP’s turn.

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

I'm at the point that I just want Mazzulla out. Has no business coaching this team.

 

[slamminsammya]

If you want shooting we have plenty of other knock down three point shooters on the roster who are also competent defenders.

 

[Cellar-Door]

The PP thing was a little weird, but overall not particularly impactful. Hopefully now that he saw it didn't particularly work he'll adjust by going with a different 8th guy.

 

[Cellar-Door]

He had a couple things I didn't like tonight... wanted a timeout at some point in that big run, and would have liked to have seen Grant instead of the 2nd PP stint....
not sure it had much impact we lost because our best players didn't play well on defense in the 3rd and shit themselves late.... plus Miami shot great.

 

[Spelunker]

He is awfully young. My 4 year old does this all the time.

Think of this as Moana, and it suddenly makes sense.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

I still can't get over the guy smashing his clip board and walking out of the huddle.

View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1659017647646965762

 

[Cellar-Door]

I still can't get over the guy smashing his clip board and walking out of the huddle.

View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1659017647646965762

It's a classic Popovich move, he's done it a bunch.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

I still can't get over the guy smashing his clip board and walking out of the huddle.

View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1659017647646965762

This doesn’t bother me. He’s trying stuff to motivate the team. If he was cool, calm, and collected people would be shitting on him for not showing enough passion (which people shit on Brad for all the time).

It’s the rotation stuff that’s frustrating. Just seemed like there was no rhyme or reason to it.

 

[Auger34]

The PP thing was a little weird, but overall not particularly impactful. Hopefully now that he saw it didn't particularly work he'll adjust by going with a different 8th guy.

I mean, he got torched on defense so it was at least somewhat impactful