Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

Light-Tower-Power

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View: https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/1659765164839776258


Your reminder, last year's team was absolute garbage in the clutch too (worse than this year's) like generationally bad. Now Joe definitely has flaws, he's obviously a rookie head coach, but most of our issues... as always... is the players
But how is a team that is so talented so atrocious when it’s close and late? Has to be the coaching right? Unless they’re truly just “soft”’ or “losers”’, which I don’t believe, the only explanation I can think of is they just haven’t found the right voice to unlock their true potential.
 

Cellar-Door

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But how is a team that is so talented so atrocious when it’s close and late? Has to be the coaching right? Unless they’re truly just “soft”’ or “losers”’, which I don’t believe, the only explanation I can think of is they just haven’t found the right voice to unlock their true potential.
They are incredibly talented, but they also are not great at executing consistently, and that's what clutch basketball is about. They also have multiple guys who struggle with one or more of: Handles, passing, quick decision making... all the things you need most to break down defenses going all out end of game to take away what you do best.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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But how is a team that is so talented so atrocious when it’s close and late? Has to be the coaching right? Unless they’re truly just “soft”’ or “losers”’, which I don’t believe, the only explanation I can think of is they just haven’t found the right voice to unlock their true potential.
They had so many chances to practice in the regular season, and it always ended up with the equivalent of Grant driving to the basket against three Jazz bigs.
 

reggiecleveland

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I don't know if the solution is to give Joe a staff of experienced assistants (something all NBA teams but the Celtics have) or move on completely and go for one of the big names currently available. But something has to give. But coaching is also just one problem among several that need to be fixed for this team to be a serious contender.
The whole Ime thing fucked up their window to win.
 
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Euclis20

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The whole Ime thing fucked up there window to win.
Really, really, really hoping this isn't the case (while knowing it absolutely could be true). It's not just that they lost Ime, it's that it happened so late in the offseason that their only realistic choice was either someone in house, or someone that no one else wanted. Without saying what's the right move, I can't imagine they move on from Joe after this year no matter what happens over the next few days or weeks, it's just too soon. If they did, suddenly we're a title contender about to have our 4th HC in 4 seasons, which sounds almost impossible. And there goes the window.
 

Cellar-Door

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The whole Ime thing fucked up there window to win.
Maybe, but honestly... this team did all this stuff last year, carbon copy, right down to a huge 3rd quarter run in game one of the ECF costing them a win while the coach got ripped for not taking TO during an 18-2 run. Checking the Ime thread, people were mostly happy with him except his timeout usage... lot of praise for his strategy of...... not doubling Jimmy Butler. I think it's mostly narrative. Ime probably would have been slightly better than Joe this year just from having a year under his belt, but strategy they are pretty similar guys, timeout usage too, biggest difference is probably personality, but the results... pretty similar.

I think the better argument might be that they would have been better off with a vet coach over either of them, but I guess you could say Ime did fuck that up by getting himself suspended too late to add one (we apparently tried to add some as assistants but they didnt want to shift in that close to the season).
 

benhogan

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No matter what happens with Miami, Joe is staying. They will get him experienced assistants. CJM and the team will get better over time. The window is wide open for 4-5 years since they can Super MAX the Jays. Joe has made a few tactical mistakes which he will learn from.
 

Cellar-Door

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Jaylen was truly awful (again). Getting beat off ball numerous times, not boxing out on rebounds, and getting a TO an a friggin inbound. When he has an off night scoring, he really brings nothing much else to the table. A super-max is somewhat of a risky proposition. Not sure what the right call is.
missed this, they should absolutely give him the Supermax, for all his flaws he's 26 and should be a borderline All-NBA type player, far worse and older players have gotten similar paydays. Even if they truly believe the pairing with Tatum will never work, you still give him the Supermax then trade him down the line, teams will be very happy to give you value for him.
 

128

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No matter what happens with Miami, Joe is staying. They will get him experienced assistants. CJM and the team will get better over time. The window is wide open for 4-5 years since they can Super MAX the Jays. Joe has made a few tactical mistakes which he will learn from.
I expect Joe to grow and improve as a coach. That said, his postgame demeanor has worn thin on me. He's apparently humorless, and his defiance after losses doesn't reflect well on him. He doubles down on every questionable decision, only to later acknowledge, in some cases, that he fucked up.

Who will be surprised if, after watching the film, Mazzulla says he should have played Time Lord more in Game 2?
 

Boston Brawler

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It’s obviously on the players to execute, but that’s not a bulletproof defense of JM. He has to be able to recognize when guy x just doesn’t have it and make a substitution. Al hasn’t had his three for quite a few games now and his D has been average to bad vs MIA. Everyone watching knew that Timelord was playing better on both ends of the floor, yet Al was there with the game still winnable through most of the fourth. That’s on the coach.

And yes, he’s been placed there clearly not ready for this type of job. He deserves some blame, but his lack of experIence isn’t his fault. The organization (and Ime) are to blame for him being in this position in the first place.
 

Auger34

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The whole Ime thing fucked up their window to win.
Completely agree. The timing of it was also about as shitty as it could get.
I think Mazzulla and his coaching staff, as of now, are thoroughly mediocre and overtaxed.…but they were also put in a terrible scenario.
 

Caspir

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The soon to be $600m dynamic duo had 0 field goals in the fourth quarter. Tatum was getting doubled and tripled, so there was a reason why he couldn’t get shots off, but Brown? Just garbage.

Watching Grant try to cover Jimmy Butler was a tragic comedy. I don’t know if Joe is the right coach for this team, but the team with the most talent just got embarrassed two games in a row on their own court. Game 3 will give us some insight into whether the coach has any ability to rally his team and adjust. Caleb Martin is playing better than our second best player.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The soon to be $600m dynamic duo had 0 field goals in the fourth quarter. Tatum was getting doubled and tripled, so there was a reason why he couldn’t get shots off, but Brown? Just garbage.
At least Tatum had some attempts.
Watching Grant try to cover Jimmy Butler was a tragic comedy. I don’t know if Joe is the right coach for this team, but the team with the most talent just got embarrassed two games in a row on their own court. Game 3 will give us some insight into whether the coach has any ability to rally his team and adjust. Caleb Martin is playing better than our second best player.
Joe is young, came into the job unexpectedly, and the Celtics had him coach shorthanded all season, especially after Stoudamire left. Clearly too much for him.

Digging up the buried Pritchard in game 1 and then the buried Grant in game 2, and then relying so heavily on Grant but not at the expense of the 3 guys who played poorly was an act of desperation by a coach hoping to pull a rabbit out of a hat. That's not going to get it done.

I understand that there are some valid concerns about bringing in a veteran assistant (who might be seen as threatening Joe's job) and that the right guy for the job is needed, not just any guy. But at some point the team needed to get this guy some help even if it meant Brad going down and being an assistant (after Joe's extension, anyway).
 

MannyRam

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This is the wrong thread but whatever…this is fucking moronic. Full stop. Just stupid as shit
On second thought, you have to super-max him to preserve the asset. But JB's game simply hasn't rounded out. The continuous off ball miscues and horrendous turnovers keep happening. And not sure you can even trust him at the free throw line close/late.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Digging up the buried Pritchard in game 1 and then the buried Grant in game 2, and then relying so heavily on Grant but not at the expense of the 3 guys who played poorly was an act of desperation by a coach hoping to pull a rabbit out of a hat. That's not going to get it done.
Grant's regression from cromulent, 20-30 minute a game playoff contributor to a shell of that player within 12 months is a massive failure on Joe's part, IMO. He came into the post-season as a player who was clearly on the coach's shit list, he's been given sporadic at best minutes in the playoffs, and then out of the blue, he's given the laughably impossible task of trying to guard the league's foremost relentless cyborg in one of the most important closing stretches of the season. Coach needs to build the players up and instill confidence in them, not whittle them down to a shell of their best self. Grant isn't some amazing player who's being held back by Mazzula but he does a lot of little things that nobody else on this team is really capable of. Last night- before Butler ate his soul- he had a nice O-board put back, he hit a three, and he made a nice pass setting up an open three.

Meanwhile, Al is calcifying before our eyes and he gets closing duties because he's a vet who's been there before. Can't grab a rebound to save his life, but he's a gritty vet.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Meanwhile, Al is calcifying before our eyes and he gets closing duties because he's a vet who's been there before. Can't grab a rebound to save his life, but he's a gritty vet.
Without Al's defense they don't win the Philly series, so dismissing Al as "calcifying before our eyes" isn't really fair. But he is 36, logged a ton of minutes this year, and maybe he is spent or needs a limited role.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I buy giving PP and Grant some run to see if they can go on a heater and save the legs of the main rotation. But I don’t understand why that can’t be largely accomplished in the first half. If they show something in the second quarter, try again in the third. But They’d get the shortest of leashes in the second half. As has been noted elsewhere, once Joe has a plan, he sticks with it.

Fuck you, Ime.
 

NomarsFool

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The one thing with Grant on Butler is at least Butler doesn’t pass to someone for an open three. For whatever reason I feel like everyone is shooting 60% on open threes against the Celtics. I don’t know if there is some adjustment they need to make on defending the line - certainly seems like others teams do it better against us.
 

Auger34

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Joe seems to trust his game to game adjustments a little too much. Whatever he planned for the game is going to happen, come hell or high water, and there won’t be any adjustments from that unless there’s an injury.
His feel for what to do in game is severely lacking
 

Patriot_Reign

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His feel for what to do in game is severely lacking
This. When you can see with your eyes in live time that Horford is lost you have options to replace him with. They have a talented bench, use it.
I have zero faith that he has any sense of how to put the best roster on the floor at any given moment.
 

kazuneko

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So does this atrocious performance against the Heat at least have an imminent Mazzulla firing as a silver lining? I know Brad is the nicest guy in sports and a former coach himself, but you can’t ruin a championship window by continuing to employ an obviously overmatched coach..
 

Cellar-Door

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42-17 before the contract extension
20-16 after the contract extension, including playoffs.
So basically:
best team in basketballl pace pre-extension
6th best team in basketball pace rest of regular season
.500 in the playoffs

As a comparison, the post-extension regular season winning percentage is pretty much what they did for the whole of last season.
 

The Social Chair

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He's not from the Popovich tree, but maybe Udoka or Hardy will throw him a bone. Most likely he'll look for an assistant job in D1.
 

bankshot1

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Celts opened the season playing with a anger and on a mission. But the adrenaline ran out late December or so. And you could see the changes in their play, focus intensity. But people were fooled by Ws. They weren't playing well. And got away from what made them great. THE D. And they needed a real coach,, but they had a rookie CJM, who was swimming in the deep end of the pool. He wasn't ready. And it was just a matter of time.
 
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Patriot_Reign

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He's not from the Popovich tree, but maybe Udoka or Hardy will throw him a bone. Most likely he'll look for an assistant job in D1.
He was already on Udoka's staff, could see him being promoted to an assistant coach role there. Just as long as he's gone from the Cs.
 

Cellar-Door

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The bigger concern is Brown, who seems like he’d be more difficult to please and is a potential free agent..
If he won't take the supermax you trade him, if he does take the supermax extension then you worry about Tatum and if Brown is an issue next year you can trade him with multiple years left and get excellent return. Tatum is clearly your best player, he's the guy you worry about pleasing. Teams are built around their superstars, GS does what Curry wants not Klay, LA does what LeBron wants, BRK didn't give a shit about what Kyrie wanted except as it related to what KD wanted, MIA is about Jimmy, Tyler Herro isn't calling the shots, DEN is about Jokic, etc. etc.
 

kazuneko

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If he won't take the supermax you trade him, if he does take the supermax extension then you worry about Tatum and if Brown is an issue next year you can trade him with multiple years left and get excellent return. Tatum is clearly your best player, he's the guy you worry about pleasing. Teams are built around their superstars, GS does what Curry wants not Klay, LA does what LeBron wants, BRK didn't give a shit about what Kyrie wanted except as it related to what KD wanted, MIA is about Jimmy, Tyler Herro isn't calling the shots, DEN is about Jokic, etc. etc.
Fair enough. Though I think that means the Cs are in a safe position choosing whoever they want if JB resigns. One great part of Tatum is that he doesn’t seem like the type to struggle with any coach. He appears to be genuinely humble and hard working..
 

Euclis20

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If he won't take the supermax you trade him, if he does take the supermax extension then you worry about Tatum and if Brown is an issue next year you can trade him with multiple years left and get excellent return. Tatum is clearly your best player, he's the guy you worry about pleasing. Teams are built around their superstars, GS does what Curry wants not Klay, LA does what LeBron wants, BRK didn't give a shit about what Kyrie wanted except as it related to what KD wanted, MIA is about Jimmy, Tyler Herro isn't calling the shots, DEN is about Jokic, etc. etc.
Exactly. The best thing about the supermax isn't necessarily that he's easier to re-sign, it's that we get a legit window into his thoughts a year before he's a free agent. Unlike with Kyrie, it's not super likely that we're stuck with nothing one way or another.
 

lovegtm

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I don't like teams overreacting to 7 game losses, or even 5 game losses with a star hurt (like the Bucks had).

I think the Celtics would have run it back had they lost a close game 7 to Philly.

But getting swept and being non-competitive in the process is going to force some major changes on the Cs end. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mazzulla gone, and the entire roster construction should be up for debate.
 

Devizier

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I think it’s time for Marcus to move on as well. He can still play but the trend is going in the wrong direction and the coach commentary is not a great sign from a player who should be providing veteran leadership.