Jaylen Brown, Year 7

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,725
Whatever it is, I just want him to keep doing it. Thru 13 playoff games, he's now shooting 54.1% from the field on 17.8 FGA, 47.1% from 3 for 5.4 attempts/game, and his TS% is at .629.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,096
Whatever it is, I just want him to keep doing it. Thru 13 playoff games, he's now shooting 54.1% from the field on 17.8 FGA, 47.1% from 3 for 5.4 attempts/game, and his TS% is at .629.
Combine that with some legitimately great on ball defense…I’d say a SuperMax is in order
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
63,564
I have in the past suggested that GWill might be worth more to the Celtics than to other teams just for the minutes of banging against other bigs in the playoffs. Well, that hasn’t come to pass and isn’t going to.

But Jaylen Brown? Holy fuck.

Did anyone else imagine him doing the Duke court slap in the 4th quarter last game? He was a fucking blur to watch.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
46,952
I don’t want a “Jaylen Brown, Year 8” thread. He can go dribble games away for someone else. Can’t win a title paying this guy 5/295.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
5,996
Jaylen is in year like 6 and still cant dribble. After the finals, i was surprised that still didnt wake him up to becoming a better ball handler. They need to sign and trade his ass out of town.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 10, 2017
5,924
No super max, that's for sure. A smaller contract ok, but if you have any inkling a team is going to give him $45-50 million/yr, wish him well and try to trade for other assets.
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
5,089
Lynn
I’m not going to be reactive, but I thought it was really telling that even with Tatum unable to push off or do anything, they kept Butler or Martin+shading on him, and were still willing to let Jaylen go 1 on 1 against Strus/Vincent.

But they lost this game for a ton of reasons, unfortunately.
 

jose melendez

Earl of Acie
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2003
30,809
Geneva, Switzerland
I'm going to need to step away before I decide.

I was infuriated by his dabbling in anti-Semitism--but I'd still been firmly in max him.

I think that's still where I am, but tonight's performance was the strongest argument against it. Still, I'm not sure how we get better without him.

Not understanding the CBA makes it really hard to make a good judgement.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,833
Los Angeles, CA
It's almost like Jaylen gets in his own head sometimes. He has amazing games, and then he has games like this one where he makes boneheaded play after boneheaded play.

After Game 6, when Barkley grilled him on TNT after the game, Jaylen said of the Celtics late-game struggles that he thinks the players worry too much about being the one who screws up. At the time, I honestly thought that he was relating his own psychology more so than anyone else's, and I still believe that.
 

osori

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 8, 2009
2,269
With his Kyrie-like off-court bullshit and today's galore, I want him gone.

But considering that is unlikely, next year I hope he gets banned from grabbing the ball top of the key. He simply doesn't have the BBIQ to initiate the offense.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
15,886
Nashua, NH
I don’t think you can make any conclusions about Jaylen Brown based on this game. He’s an excellent #2 to Tatum’s #1. He’s never going to be a #1. He doesn’t have the skillset to be a #1. He was forced into a #1 role in an ECF Game 7 due to injury and he didn’t play well. It was asking him to do things he just isn’t capable of doing but there really wasn’t an alternative.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,019
San Francisco
I don’t think you can make any conclusions about Jaylen Brown based on this game. He’s an excellent #2 to Tatum’s #1. He’s never going to be a #1. He doesn’t have the skillset to be a #1. He was forced into a #1 role in an ECF Game 7 due to injury and he didn’t play well. It was asking him to do things he just isn’t capable of doing but there really wasn’t an alternative.
Lots of those turnovers were not him trying to be a number one but just boneheaded plays. It's hard to be a scorer regardless of your role if you routinely decide to dribble the ball away or just make shitty passes that get intercepted. They weren't high leverage passes either - one was an out of bounds to a wide open grant who was five feet away. Another was just a routine swing pass.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
46,952
I don’t think you can make any conclusions about Jaylen Brown based on this game. He’s an excellent #2 to Tatum’s #1. He’s never going to be a #1. He doesn’t have the skillset to be a #1. He was forced into a #1 role in an ECF Game 7 due to injury and he didn’t play well. It was asking him to do things he just isn’t capable of doing but there really wasn’t an alternative.
What was asked of Jaylen tonight that he isn’t capable of doing?
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
15,886
Nashua, NH
What was asked of Jaylen tonight that he isn’t capable of doing?
Having the ball in his hands trying to create offense. He’s a turnover machine and it’s part of the Jaylen experience but it was exacerbated by his high usage rate tonight with Tatum unable to do anything. I’m not 100% sold on him being a super max guy but he’s not as bad as he was tonight.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,096
What a sad way to finish an otherwise very good season. 8 turnovers in a game 7 is disaster.
It's almost like Jaylen gets in his own head sometimes. He has amazing games, and then he has games like this one where he makes boneheaded play after boneheaded play.

After Game 6, when Barkley grilled him on TNT after the game, Jaylen said of the Celtics late-game struggles that he thinks the players worry too much about being the one who screws up. At the time, I honestly thought that he was relating his own psychology more so than anyone else's, and I still believe that.
I am highlighting these two quotes because they nail how I feel.

He was so good all season. Very good in these playoffs and tonight he just completely shit the bed.
The entire team couldn’t buy a bucket and you could see every player (except Rob and White) get tight.
The turnovers were absolutely awful. Butler kept poking the ball away from him from behind (I think that happened like 4 times). It fucking sucked.
He was the worst Celtic on a night when almost everyone played like shit.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
20,477
Having the ball in his hands trying to create offense. He’s a turnover machine and it’s part of the Jaylen experience but it was exacerbated by his high usage rate tonight with Tatum unable to do anything. I’m not 100% sold on him being a super max guy but he’s not as bad as he was tonight.
Geeze I dunno. He can't be relied on to dribble and create but he also isn't an elite 3P shooter? Glad I'm not Brad because that doesn't sound like max or supermax to me.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
15,886
Nashua, NH
Geeze I dunno. He can't be relied on to dribble and create but he also isn't an elite 3P shooter? Glad I'm not Brad because that doesn't sound like max or supermax to me.
Yeah it’s a tough one and I could go either way on it. The 3P shooting is a good point because I think it’s probably a no-brainer even with all his warts if he’s a 38%+ guy, but if he’s truly more like the 33% guy he was this year then it’s a really tough decision.
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
8,672
Is there some sort of dribble doctor we can send Jaylen to? Can we get him on PP's routine?
Seems super unlikely that he can actually improve in that realm. The cake feels baked. Unless he has some sort of nerve damage that's been messing with the feeling in his hand because it actually feels like he's slowly been getting worse over the years.

Also, I feel like he's tried to transform from a spot-up shooter from three to a guy who gets his own shot off the dribble and the results have been miserable. Some of the decisions to shoot tonight were baffling.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,021
It's just really unfortunate that the season had to end with Brown not just not contributing to win - you'd almost think he was playing for the other side. Terrible shot selection, turnovers, terrible on ball defense (you get cooked by Kyle Lowry), and terrible off-ball defense. He did have a couple of steals after the game was completely flushed downt the toilet, but it was just too late. Sometimes shots don't go down. That's basketball. But, Jaylen Brown just continues to make poor decisions - and that just doesn't seem to get fixed. I really don't know why players think that taking a pull up three pointer from 5 feet behind the arc is a good shot. It just isn't. It's a panic move.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,092
Geeze I dunno. He can't be relied on to dribble and create but he also isn't an elite 3P shooter? Glad I'm not Brad because that doesn't sound like max or supermax to me.
He had at least three plays where he dribbled and the defender (Butler mainly) reached around behind him and poked the ball away. You see that work in high school and college but it almost never works in the NBA. Well...it worked at least 3 times against Jaylen tonight. Unfathomable.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,367
Here
I don’t think you can make any conclusions about Jaylen Brown based on this game. He’s an excellent #2 to Tatum’s #1. He’s never going to be a #1. He doesn’t have the skillset to be a #1. He was forced into a #1 role in an ECF Game 7 due to injury and he didn’t play well. It was asking him to do things he just isn’t capable of doing but there really wasn’t an alternative.
The scoring talent is excellent for a #2, but I still don’t think he’s a great complement to Tatum and his defense is often in the shitter. Finding a fit to move him is difficult, particularly given the contract considerations, but there a couple different options in Portland that might be worth exploring.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
SoSH Member
Sep 6, 2004
36,544
where the darn libs live
I think you have to keep him. I don't think there's another real option -- maybe you move him down the road but you're never going to get close to fair value in a trade and you obviously can't just let him walk.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,552
The scoring talent is excellent for a #2, but I still don’t think he’s a great complement to Tatum and his defense is often in the shitter. Finding a fit to move him is difficult, given the contract considerations, but there a couple different options in Portland that might be worth exploring.
he plays fine on his guy but is a bad team defender to my eye. I’m no expert. I’ve always thought he had a bad basketball iq but he is a tremendous athlete and that covers for it.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,185
deep inside Guido territory
The scoring talent is excellent for a #2, but I still don’t think he’s a great complement to Tatum and his defense is often in the shitter. Finding a fit to move him is difficult, given the contract considerations, but there a couple different options in Portland that might be worth exploring.
He’d be stupid not to commit to signing the deal if offered. Then they’d have a year to see how things go. Trading him now his value is not good. Signed long term he’d have more value.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,096
He had at least three plays where he dribbled and the defender (Butler mainly) reached around behind him and poked the ball away. You see that work in high school and college but it almost never works in the NBA. Well...it worked at least 3 times against Jaylen tonight. Unfathomable.
They were all Butler. @RorschachsMask apparently saw differently but to my eye it looked that after Tatum got hurt, anytime Jaylen tried to drive they just completely sank in on him knowing no one could hit a shot. And then Butler guarded him more after that as well.
 

k-factory

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
1,825
seattle, wa
It’s tough in this moment but you have to bet on his ability to overcome his challenges. He is worth the super max because anything else you do will be a talent step down. And the guy owns it.
I am more disappointed in Brogdon. Wtf with this guy all post-season. Thought he was smart but he had repeated moments of brain cramp and carelessness particularly for a guard.
Not particularly introspective comments either from him.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
46,952
He’d be stupid not to commit to signing the deal if offered. Then they’d have a year to see how things go. Trading him now his value is not good. Signed long term he’d have more value.
We’ll see how much he wants to be here. He’ll have to pass up a ton of money to leave but right now he’s the face of the Celtics’ 2023 playoff failure. Jaylen is about to take more heat than he’s probably taken in his whole career. It’ll be interesting to see how he handles it.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,833
Los Angeles, CA
Seems super unlikely that he can actually improve in that realm. The cake feels baked. Unless he has some sort of nerve damage that's been messing with the feeling in his hand because it actually feels like he's slowly been getting worse over the years.

Also, I feel like he's tried to transform from a spot-up shooter from three to a guy who gets his own shot off the dribble and the results have been miserable. Some of the decisions to shoot tonight were baffling.
I watched most Celtics games this year, and I honestly thought he had improved in this area a ton in the regular season. I even commented about it somewhere in this thread. But man, he regressed big time in these playoffs. Or maybe it was always there and the playoff pressure brought it out more.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,367
Here
It’s tough in this moment but you have to bet on his ability to overcome his challenges. He is worth the super max because anything else you do will be a talent step down. And the guy owns it.
I am more disappointed in Brogdon. Wtf with this guy all post-season. Thought he was smart but he had repeated moments of brain cramp and carelessness particularly for a guard.
Not particularly introspective comments either from him.
Brogdon tore a tendon in his shooting arm Game 1.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
I obviously don’t watch a ton of basketball, but Jaylen reminds me of fighters who, when they get hit, get so amped to return fire they tense up and lose their rhythm. I’m thinking of the opening plays of the second half, after the Miami 3 you could see him hulking out even before the ridiculous charge.

It’s good to have the instinct to wanna hit right back, but dude’s who get their backs up too much end up out of control and playing beneath themselves.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,096
I watched most Celtics games this year, and I honestly thought he had improved in this area a ton in the regular season. I even commented about it somewhere in this thread. But man, he regressed big time in these playoffs. Or maybe it was always there and the playoff pressure brought it out more.
Don’t dismiss the hand/wrist/elbow issues. You have to imagine those played a big part in the shooting woes and maybe the dribbling issues
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,833
Los Angeles, CA
Don’t dismiss the hand/wrist/elbow issues. You have to imagine those played a big part in the shooting woes and maybe the dribbling issues
Good point. And if that's the case, then it makes sense to mention that I don't believe his cover story about how he cut his hand one bit.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,096
Good point. And if that's the case, then it makes sense to mention that I don't believe his cover story about how he cut his hand one bit.
Yeah…I don’t think I do either but what else could it be?
 

jmcc5400

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2000
5,154
If Tatum is on Team Jaylen, and he probably is, Brad’s hands are tied here.
Yup, that decision is as good as made. The team's best path to a championship continues to be banking on Tatum to go up yet another level. I wouldn't bet against it. (And, please, JT, re-find the three point stroke).
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
19,747
St. Louis, MO
Checking basketball reference, since 2019-2020 his turnover rate has doubled and averaged about 2.6 per game.

You can’t really replace 26 ppg scorers-they have to put him in better positions to succeed. When facilitating, he’s way too vulnerable to being trapped and coughing it up. They desperately need a pass first PG to get the ball out of his hands and keep him moving and cutting. Smart is going to be the one to go.
 

Reardon's Beard

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2005
3,794
JB should be a GREAT #3 versus a Good #2.

Nevertheless in the NBA those guys get paid max contracts. If that's what JT wants it's going to be hard to avoid, but on the plus side if they really buy in together...when they are on, maybe no better duo in the league. But have to think clear and shoot straight, otherwise you get tonight.