Off to an aquatic start.
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1550927675774189571
JB’s summer workouts are no joke
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1550927675774189571
JB’s summer workouts are no joke
Jaylen Brown, Year 7
- Thread starter ifmanis5
- Start date
Does aquatic training like that accomplish anything you don't get from normal training or does it just look cool?
It’s low impact, so I’m guessing it lets a basketball player work on explosive jumping without the impact of landing from those jumps. It seems like a good way to rest joints in the off-season while building/maintaining strength.
Anything that is not sport specific is more like GPP (general physical preparedness) so is this better? Probably not. Is it worse? Probably not.
It would help my (love) handles if I worked out like this. To be fair, based on the Grant Williams interview last week he said Brad and Ime just told the team flat out to not pick up a basketball for 3-4 weeks after the Finals. The strategy seems to be #1 to go on vacation and rest, #2 get into your strength training, and finally #3 late this summer into fall get into their basketball training.
A not insignificant part of this approach is to just "forget" the basketball being played at the end of the season. In playoff basketball everybody is doing whatever it takes to win, even if it is usually a weakness for them or they need to go into Kobe mode for some selfishness that wouldn't fly normally. While Jaylen's handles weren't good, in the regular season this would be exploited into 2-3 steals rather than 8-10 TOs at the end of the postseason through a combination of the opposition's singular focus and the aforementioned hero ball you sometimes need in the playoffs.
Cutting this off and just starting over for the 2022-23 season to relearn the fundamentals and build confidence seems like a wise play. Nevermind the fact that JB may have much fewer driving attempts this season anyway, due to the Brogdon acquisition and how likely the rotations will result in him playing at the 3 than the 2.
Is there such a distinction between the “2” and the “3” in Ime’s system that would meaningfully impact the driving attempts of a player like Jaylen Brown?
Back when I was swimming at a high level, there was a belief that intense cardio at 8ft of depth and below would lead to some benefits. I think it was a similar principle as working out at high altitudes developing more hemoglobin which would then lead to better cardio at sea levels?
I think its also good resistance training while being gentle on the joints.
I think its also good resistance training while being gentle on the joints.
I’ve felt swimming may act as a form of massage even while I’m doing it. Not sure it’s actually breaking up fascia, but at least flushing muscles on surface if not deeper. When I used to swim and kickbox more (I’m no expert at either) I felt like the bruises & bumps were a little less present after a pool workout. Maybe just me.
Jaylen has and will clean up basically all of his physical weaknesses, it’s the reading the game aspect that I worry* will always keep him from jumping from very good to elite.
*Not really worry, as he’s proven to be at least a guy whose in the conversation for an all all star spot every season.
*Not really worry, as he’s proven to be at least a guy whose in the conversation for an all all star spot every season.
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With Tatum's development, that's not even that problematic. His handle is the big thing.
Yeah that’s why I added that disclaimer. I think he will clean the handles up some, but having Brogdon will help there just as much. I’d expect to see Jaylen off ball a fair amount more next season, especially with Brogdon being one of the most aggressive drivers in the league.
Brogdon will be a staple of lineups with Jaylen any time Tatum sits.
Anecdotal and I didn't chart the possessions or anything, but seem to recall when Smart and White were on the floor concurrently with Jaylen he had so many more catch and shoot opportunities.
Jaylen had a 11.6% turnover percentage to Jayson's 10.9% last year. I'd be more interested in getting his assist rate of 17.9% closer to Jayson's 21.1% than the turnover problem.
Both saw a serious spike in turnover percentage in the playoffs, which is no bueno. Having a Brogdon around will definitely help with that.
Both saw a serious spike in turnover percentage in the playoffs, which is no bueno. Having a Brogdon around will definitely help with that.
I did a fair amount of water-based rehab and it's definitely easier on the joints, and the massage talk above is accurate to an extent. Water pressure acts as a compression force on the body and helps heal inflammation. What he's doing is good stuff and looks badass, certainly way cooler than my foam barbells you see in use by the elderly in the aqua-aerobics classes on beach vacations. TBH, I don't think I could do that in your typical 8 foot pool with the foam weights.
Not sure if this is the thread for it, but I was thinking about player comps for jaylen, whether there's reason to think that he's peaked, and how to project that peak. I'm a complete neophyte when it comes to bball and bball stats, but I was a bit curious about a couple DARKO "similarity" charts:
By DARKO DPM, jaylen shows no indications that his skills are ready to plateau, and he's exceeded all his comps. But DARKO Box DPM shows a different picture:
Now, I can't find an explanation for how Box DPM differs from DPM, and this second chart looks kind of weird with the data points that occur after reaching the end of Jaylen's curve. Nonetheless, if folks have particular tools you like for creating player comps, particularly in the context of guessing where jaylen might be heading in the next couple year, please let me know!
Btw, looking at some of these player comps, I'm starting to understand on a basic level the limitation of these all-in-one stats (DeMarcus cousins? Sure!)
By DARKO DPM, jaylen shows no indications that his skills are ready to plateau, and he's exceeded all his comps. But DARKO Box DPM shows a different picture:
Now, I can't find an explanation for how Box DPM differs from DPM, and this second chart looks kind of weird with the data points that occur after reaching the end of Jaylen's curve. Nonetheless, if folks have particular tools you like for creating player comps, particularly in the context of guessing where jaylen might be heading in the next couple year, please let me know!
Btw, looking at some of these player comps, I'm starting to understand on a basic level the limitation of these all-in-one stats (DeMarcus cousins? Sure!)
Keith Smart does a good job explaining Brown's future contract options here.
https://www.spotrac.com/research/nba/next-contract-series-jaylen-brown-1572/
Here is the summary at the end:
Whether he’s traded or not, it makes little to no sense for Jaylen Brown to sign a Veteran Extension either this season or next. Here’s what Brown would give up in each scenario:
Because Brown signed for less than the max in his original deal, and the cap is continuing to rise, he’s highly likely to forgo signing anything this offseason. Next offseason might be a different story.
Assuming Brown remains with the Celtics, both sides could agree to a Designated Veteran Extension in the summer of 2023, if he qualifies that season. It’s not a reach, as Brown is coming off a season where he averaged 23.6 points and 6.1 rebounds per game in the regular season prior to a very productive run to the 2022 NBA Finals.
If Brown doesn’t qualify for a Designated Veteran Extension in 2023, then he’ll be an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2024. He may qualify for the Designated Veteran Contract by virtue of a big 2023-24 season. If not, he’ll then look to cash in with the Celtics on a standard 30% max deal, or he could give up some money and move to a new team.
This offseason isn’t the time for Boston fans to worry about Jaylen Brown not extending. It simply doesn’t make any financial sense for a player of his ability. But if Brown makes All-NBA (or wins MVP or DPOY) in 2023 and we’re still waiting on an extension a year from now, it’s fair to get a little nervous if you’re a Celtics fan. That would mean Brown is passing on the largest contract he can possibly get.
If Brown is eligible and passes on signing a Designated Veteran Extension in 2023, it probably makes sense for Boston to consider trading Brown before he could walk for nothing in the summer of 2024. At that point, the confidence level he wants to remain with the Celtics would have to be fairly low, as no one passes up the so-called “supermax extension” when it’s offered.
https://www.spotrac.com/research/nba/next-contract-series-jaylen-brown-1572/
Here is the summary at the end:
Whether he’s traded or not, it makes little to no sense for Jaylen Brown to sign a Veteran Extension either this season or next. Here’s what Brown would give up in each scenario:
- Veteran Extension vs 35% Designated Veteran Extension or Contract with Boston: $125 million-plus
- Veteran Extension vs 30% max re-signing with Boston (or re-signing): $83.6 million-plus
- Veteran Extension vs 30% max signing with another team: $19.3 million-plus
Because Brown signed for less than the max in his original deal, and the cap is continuing to rise, he’s highly likely to forgo signing anything this offseason. Next offseason might be a different story.
Assuming Brown remains with the Celtics, both sides could agree to a Designated Veteran Extension in the summer of 2023, if he qualifies that season. It’s not a reach, as Brown is coming off a season where he averaged 23.6 points and 6.1 rebounds per game in the regular season prior to a very productive run to the 2022 NBA Finals.
If Brown doesn’t qualify for a Designated Veteran Extension in 2023, then he’ll be an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2024. He may qualify for the Designated Veteran Contract by virtue of a big 2023-24 season. If not, he’ll then look to cash in with the Celtics on a standard 30% max deal, or he could give up some money and move to a new team.
This offseason isn’t the time for Boston fans to worry about Jaylen Brown not extending. It simply doesn’t make any financial sense for a player of his ability. But if Brown makes All-NBA (or wins MVP or DPOY) in 2023 and we’re still waiting on an extension a year from now, it’s fair to get a little nervous if you’re a Celtics fan. That would mean Brown is passing on the largest contract he can possibly get.
If Brown is eligible and passes on signing a Designated Veteran Extension in 2023, it probably makes sense for Boston to consider trading Brown before he could walk for nothing in the summer of 2024. At that point, the confidence level he wants to remain with the Celtics would have to be fairly low, as no one passes up the so-called “supermax extension” when it’s offered.
I think Keiths' numbers are a bit off, he started Jaylens' salary a bit too high in an extension.
This is what I think he'd be leaving on the table if he signed a 2+1 extension with Boston before this season.(going off of Keiths 143M cap projection for 24/25)
If he extends now, he'd make 34.2M in 24/25 and 37M in 25/26, with his option for 39.8M in 26/27. He'd also have 8.3M in incentives in the first two seasons, around 5.5M that he can reasonably make.
If he wait til FA, he'd make 42.9M in 24/25 and 46.3M in 25/26.
So to lock in 111M in security early, he'd be leaving 18M guaranteed over the first two years, but would probably make 5.5M of that up in incentives.
So leaving somewhere between 12.5M to 18M on the table to lock in 111M.
One big benefit to signing a 2+1 now is, the second year of that extension would be his tenth year in the NBA. Opting out then would make him eligible to sign a 35% max, instead of a 30% max in 24/25 if he doesn't extend, and would come after the new TV deal kicks in. He'd probably make up most of the difference of the money he left on the table in the 26/27 season alone. (That's assuming he would sign a 3+1 or 4+1 max in 24/25 if he doesn't extend now)
I thought before this playoff run, that him signing an extension now was at least a decent possibility. I think making the finals probably knocked that way down. Just being in that high profile spot, probably gives him a small step up in being in voters minds for all-NBA next season. If he has a similar season next year as he did this year, maybe he gets a vote in a close race with a Donovan Mitchell or Paul George that he wouldn't have if they lost to Milwaukee. It's probably enough for him to gamble on trying to make all-NBA and be eligible for an early motherlode from Boston.
I'd guess now the only way he extends before this season is if he really wants to be here, and the Celtics said to him that if he wouldn't extend that they'd be afraid he was going to walk and were going to trade him now. I'd consider that a very unlikely scenario.
This is what I think he'd be leaving on the table if he signed a 2+1 extension with Boston before this season.(going off of Keiths 143M cap projection for 24/25)
If he extends now, he'd make 34.2M in 24/25 and 37M in 25/26, with his option for 39.8M in 26/27. He'd also have 8.3M in incentives in the first two seasons, around 5.5M that he can reasonably make.
If he wait til FA, he'd make 42.9M in 24/25 and 46.3M in 25/26.
So to lock in 111M in security early, he'd be leaving 18M guaranteed over the first two years, but would probably make 5.5M of that up in incentives.
So leaving somewhere between 12.5M to 18M on the table to lock in 111M.
One big benefit to signing a 2+1 now is, the second year of that extension would be his tenth year in the NBA. Opting out then would make him eligible to sign a 35% max, instead of a 30% max in 24/25 if he doesn't extend, and would come after the new TV deal kicks in. He'd probably make up most of the difference of the money he left on the table in the 26/27 season alone. (That's assuming he would sign a 3+1 or 4+1 max in 24/25 if he doesn't extend now)
I thought before this playoff run, that him signing an extension now was at least a decent possibility. I think making the finals probably knocked that way down. Just being in that high profile spot, probably gives him a small step up in being in voters minds for all-NBA next season. If he has a similar season next year as he did this year, maybe he gets a vote in a close race with a Donovan Mitchell or Paul George that he wouldn't have if they lost to Milwaukee. It's probably enough for him to gamble on trying to make all-NBA and be eligible for an early motherlode from Boston.
I'd guess now the only way he extends before this season is if he really wants to be here, and the Celtics said to him that if he wouldn't extend that they'd be afraid he was going to walk and were going to trade him now. I'd consider that a very unlikely scenario.
Brown super-max extension next summer (if he makes All-NBA) would look something like this:
Brown would boost what would start as an approximately five-year, $248.8 million extension into a $290.3 million mega-deal, over $100 million more than he could sign for with a new team in free agency. It’s a serious advantage the Celtics would benefit from if he positions himself to earn all that he can. He already has to some degree, with 2022 the most consistently involved he’s ever been in the offense — averaging 24.2 points on 18.8 shots each night after his injury. His 60.2 touches per game were up from 56.9 the year before and 49.0 in 2020.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/8/24/23313059/what-if-jaylen-brown-becomes-an-all-nba-player-kevin-durant-trade-jayson-tatum-boston-celtics
the Game 2 video against the Nets is nice offseason fodder
Brown would boost what would start as an approximately five-year, $248.8 million extension into a $290.3 million mega-deal, over $100 million more than he could sign for with a new team in free agency. It’s a serious advantage the Celtics would benefit from if he positions himself to earn all that he can. He already has to some degree, with 2022 the most consistently involved he’s ever been in the offense — averaging 24.2 points on 18.8 shots each night after his injury. His 60.2 touches per game were up from 56.9 the year before and 49.0 in 2020.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/8/24/23313059/what-if-jaylen-brown-becomes-an-all-nba-player-kevin-durant-trade-jayson-tatum-boston-celtics
the Game 2 video against the Nets is nice offseason fodder
That's a great article. I liked this from Ime:
“All-around, the things he does, the versatility he gives us on the defensive end is what it is, I think that trickles down with Marcus and our big wings,” Ime Udoka said. “He’s been solid there and he’s one of the guys who has probably had to restructure what he did as a defender. He’s usually a guy that locks in on an assignment on-ball, off-ball and kind of takes that guy out where we’re asking for more communication and he’s one of the guys that has improved throughout the season as far as that. Offensively ... his playmaking ability and his scoring for himself. I think (Game 3 of the Finals) was one of his best games of getting guys organized into spots he wanted, get our spacing correct and then attacking from there ... one, two dribbles and finding guys all over the court. That growth, as well as Jayson, was a big point of emphasis coming into the season.”
Add the Darko chart and the highlights against the Nets and that filled my basketball needs for the day.
IME's description of JB's defense was spot on. Very clever and subtle without being too critical.
Nice start for Jaylen. Seems like he often comes out of the gate strong.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5gq7x3NuPo
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5gq7x3NuPo
It is too easy to forget how incredible a scorer JB is when healthy -- when not limited by some leg injury.
Hopefully what looks like more muscle (those pool exercises?) will help him stay sound!
One thing people are sleeping on a bit: this is kinda a contract year for Jaylen. If he makes All-NBA this season, he can sign the supermax, and the Celtics will happily offer it to him, with the TV cap spike upcoming.
Being a 25 ppg two-way wing on a 55 win+ team would give him an extremely good shot at making it, since he'd get the "contributes to winning" tiebreaker.
Jaylen is going to be really, really motivated this year imo.
I love what Jaylen brings on the court, really good second guy for Tatum. But he needs to get the fuck away from Kanye lol, I think it’ll only get worse.
Posted this in another thread yesterday..."I guess this is more sports related but dont want to V&N the Jaylen thread...I really hope Jaylen puts some distance between himself and Kanye. I dont know enough about Kanye's school to comment on it, and without digging too deep I really can never be upset with an athlete showing up for kids like he did in September. But it's going to get increasingly hard to root for Brown if Kanye keeps this bulls*it up (or, as could very well happen, ramp it up even more) and Jaylen sticks with him."
TLDR: "This is pretty depressing." @tbb345
TLDR: "This is pretty depressing." @tbb345
Does Kanye run his Twitter account, or are we still doing that thing where we all pretend he’s not a complete clown because he went to MIT to listen to a compelling discussion about the ethics of AI?
Diet Kyrie is right.
You’re not wrong, I just think him spending much more time around Kanye/Kyrie is making him feel more comfortable expressing his beliefs. I’d expect that to continue being the case, as he’s gotten more and more overt.
No doubt. This might be him aligning with like minded people, or it might be Hollywood just messing with his mind and his circle. I am “disappointed” as much as a stranger can be disappointed in someone they don’t know, because he really seemed different.
I just hope he stays healthy and has a great season on the court. The extras aren’t my job to care about.
I could’ve been more clear in my original post but it was related to Kanye’s deleted tweet about going “deathcon 3 on Jewish people.” I don’t place athletes on moral pedestals of any kind…but for a homegrown guy that’s been as easy to root for as anyone as I can remember, it will tough to digest if he continues doing public things with Kanye.
the vaxx stuff is a separate issue altogether and I can shake those off a lot easier than I can him supporting Kanye going forward (unless that support include him urging Kanye to get some help)…
the vaxx stuff is a separate issue altogether and I can shake those off a lot easier than I can him supporting Kanye going forward (unless that support include him urging Kanye to get some help)…
This is pretty demeaning to what he has actually done. He’s given speeches at MIT about ways to give disenfranchised kids access to better education.
I hated that tweet but the Diet Kyrie nickname is a joke . Jaylen’s actually intelligent not a fucking self involved moron like Kyrie
Harvard too; among the youngest people ever to be asked to give a lecture like that, in the modern age anyway. The guy has the horses.
He has a real seeker streak in him, though; when they asked him a few years ago what he was reading, he said The Egyptian Book of the Dead, which sent my antennae up. He’s into planets and their effects on us too. Nothing wrong with that at all, and it’s not as uncommon as some think. but it can take people in a couple different directions. Some of them could suck for a basketball team.
Like, Kyrie isn’t a basketball problem because he’s an idiot, he’s a basketball problem because he’s a self-involved fuckhead. Like, I still can’t believe he walked out before the final buzzer. I know my way around some of these areas, as some here know, and from a basketball perspective, I’m far less concerned with the content of his beliefs—I’m not sure Tom Brady even knows we have a government, and that went really well for me as a fan—as if he falls into rabbit holes that lead to self-indulgent fuckery, which is a thing that can happen. He’s an extremely focused and intense guy, though, and I think some of his other interests can keep him out of those traps and, if you will, his eye on the ball.
Did you even read the Tweet? The only "info" is from an anonymous Director, not even a quote, about not testing the vaccine to see if it stopped the spread. There is zero information or evidence in there to even make a case that it actually didn't help slow the spread. It's nonsense
edit:virus to vaccine
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As long as his stuff doesn’t become a distraction, I don’t really care (within reason lol). And I don’t think it’ll ever become a distraction.
I’ve definitely been let down by some of his stuff on Twitter, but that’s just as much on me.
I’ve definitely been let down by some of his stuff on Twitter, but that’s just as much on me.