Jaylen Brown, Year 7

InstaFace

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I'm going with "blowing smoke". He turned a few plays that would usually be dunks into layups... and then the one play in the 2nd half where he dunked, he immediately grabbed that hand and winced, held it, shook it out. He's going to open up that cut again (if he hasn't already) playing the way he does, playing as if nothing is different. If it were the ECF or NBA Finals, whatever, tape it up and gut it out. But in an easy first round, I do think he needs a few games off to let it get closer to normal.

Maybe play him 10-20 minutes on Friday and if we win it, put him in street clothes for Game 4 until Philly Game 1.
 

the moops

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Honest question here. Do NBA players get pre-broken in shoes? Or are they custom made to fit exactly right? I couldn't imagine trying to play in new shoes every week or so
 

Cellar-Door

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Honest question here. Do NBA players get pre-broken in shoes? Or are they custom made to fit exactly right? I couldn't imagine trying to play in new shoes every week or so
Most of them play with custom inserts if I recall correctly. So presumably you break in inserts in practice then just swap them into the shoe you wear on a given night.

Edit- Nate Jones (Goodwin Sports) started a company with Dame and some other NBA players sponsoring it for insoles... this interview goes into it a bit, but NBA player shoes aren't the same out of the box as retail, they're special and usually involve a lot of custom stuff:
https://www.nicekicks.com/move-insoles-feature-with-nate-jones/
 

koufax32

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Pok to pok as a precursor to basketball? Cue the Jennifer Lawrence “okay” GIF. I’m more bothered by the fact these are in Lakers colors. What is wrong with you, my man?

After this year, I’m firmly in the “<eye roll> he’s a weirdo but he’s our weirdo” camp.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Wasn't it 22 with 2:14 left? That rounds to impossible, in terms of comeback possibilities.

Fwiw though, I'm very much in the camp of "it's 2 minutes of not that intense basketball, and incredibly unlikely something bad happens", so this is really nitpicking at the margins.
How many did Atlanta cut the lead by in G1 late3/early4? Up 8 poss with 2:14 is close to pulling everyone but the Hawks can cut that in half with over a min left….obv unlikely but certainly anything less is silly to put yourself in a position to have to bring the starters back in. This isn’t the reg season….just play out the last min or two or until the other team concedes by emptying their bench.
 

128

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If this is what the hand injury has done to Jaylen Brown, then he needs to be scratched until it heals.
Doesn't sound like an injury that'll heal with a few days' rest. At this point, he's going to have to gut it out.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Doesn't sound like an injury that'll heal with a few days' rest. At this point, he's going to have to gut it out.
If that is the case then 1) this season is going to be a lot shorter than planned and 2) he needs to be gutting more of it out from the bench, becuase he is often a liability on the floor.
 

Eddie Jurak

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He went 7-15; let’s calm down a bit here
I take it you didn’t watch? Shooting was the least of his problems tonight. He was a mess who didn’t know what to do with the ball in his hands. Can’t ever remember seeing anything like that from him.
 

TripleOT

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I take it you didn’t watch? Shooting was the least of his problems tonight. He was a mess who didn’t know what to do with the ball in his hands. Can’t ever remember seeing anything like that from him.
They were down a bucket late, and JB had the ball in the middle on the break, with Brogdon on his right, and AL steaming down the court on the left, with two Hawks back, and one trailing. I got a good look, since my TMobile internet froze at that exact moment.

Brown didn’t attack, and Boston lost a golden opportunity to snatch late momentum.

Also that late three from deep was a garbage shot.
 

Auger34

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They were down a bucket late, and JB had the ball in the middle on the break, with Brogdon on his right, and AL steaming down the court on the left, with two Hawks back, and one trailing. I got a good look, since my TMobile internet froze at that exact moment.

Brown didn’t attack, and Boston lost a golden opportunity to snatch late momentum.

Also that late three from deep was a garbage shot.
I posted this in the game thread, the process was shit but the possession ended with Tatum getting a wide open 3 from the top of the key. He missed. It’s not nearly the disaster that you describe here
 

Auger34

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I take it you didn’t watch? Shooting was the least of his problems tonight. He was a mess who didn’t know what to do with the ball in his hands. Can’t ever remember seeing anything like that from him.
I did watch. If you want to complain about Brown the complaint would be that he kind of disappeared. I really didn’t notice him much on the floor in the 2nd half (for better or for worse). He definitely wasn’t good but I never thought he was one of the worst players on the floor or he was actively hurting the team
The story of the 2nd half to me was missed open shots (mostly from Marcus). Tatum also sucked
 

TripleOT

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I posted this in the game thread, the process was shit but the possession ended with Tatum getting a wide open 3 from the top of the key. He missed. It’s not nearly the disaster that you describe here
I would have preferred JB to drive and either take the layup or dish to a wing for a layup. Brown is usually one of the best in the league in runouts. He just wasn’t locked in tonight.
 

bellowthecat

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Brown was in foul trouble early and never really found his rhythm. 33 minutes is a relatively light load for him. 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 turnovers, 5 fouls. He looked tentative going to the hoop at times, which I'm hoping had more to do with the foul trouble than his hand. The 3 ball hasn't really been there for him all year anyway. The Celtics as a whole were too disinterested in defending to make much happen in transition which is where JB can really shine. Unless his hand is really a problem I'm confident he'll play better on Sunday.
 
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Jimbodandy

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Brown was in foul trouble early and never really found his rhythm. 33 minutes is a relatively light load for him. 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 turnovers, 5 fouls. He looked tentative going to the hoop at times, which I'm hoping had more to do with the foul trouble than his hand. The 3 ball hasn't really been there for him all year anyway. The Celtics as a whole were too disinterested in defensing to make much happen in transition which is where JB can really shine. Unless his hand is really a problem I'm confident he'll play better on Sunday.
Preach.

This is what happens when they only play defense for about half of the game, on and off. Not nearly enough transition and secondary transition. Grinding possessions. Of course you need to be able to play against set defenses, but you can't play most of the night against set defenses because you're not bothering to lock down enough. Not great effort imo.

It's also not the first time that Jaylen stopped being aggressive because the foul trouble robbed him of his rhythm. He needs to find ways to contribute.
 

Humphrey

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Not great effort imo.
Have to agree with that. It's not like the whole game was a bunch of miracle three pointers like the Hawks made in the last couple minutes. The rest of the game, they were for the most part wide open shots.
 

lovegtm

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Game 4 was why you supermax him. He can make plays getting to the rim that other guys on the team just can't, and it really carried them and kept the offense open.

The playmaking to Rob in the 4th was also great.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I struggle to make sense of what happened in this game.

For much of the first half, Brown was the same awful, hesitant self he was in game 3. I stand by it was some of his worst play as a Celtic. Worse even than the meager numbers would suggest.

Then late in the second half he takes the mask off and explodes, scoring 31 points for the game, 4 rebounds, 3 assists. Two of the assists were consecutive drives and dishes to Rob at the hoop - plays that were turnovers for him (if he even attempted them) in game 3.

Ordinarily, I could 100% believe that the mask was disruptive and removing it made the difference. What makes it weird in this situation is that he's been wearing the mask for 2 months wihtout looking hindered by it.

Anyway, his breakout game here was the most encouraging part of last night's game for ther Celtics.
 

lovegtm

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He must have been in his own head somehow for the prior games, because as you said, he didn't even change anything. He just did the same stuff way better.

The mind is a weird thing, and it's possible that all the little injuries threw him off, in a way that he just needed to reset mentally.
 

Justthetippett

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He must have been in his own head somehow for the prior games, because as you said, he didn't even change anything. He just did the same stuff way better.

The mind is a weird thing, and it's possible that all the little injuries threw him off, in a way that he just needed to reset mentally.
JB also has a tendency to look like his mind is grinding on the court, and when he let's loose it's often his handle that gets him in trouble. To be most effective he probably has to find a narrow bit of head space and try to stay there. He's so much better playing off two feet now than he used to be, which I think helps his controlled aggression. Reminded me of Jimmy Butler on a few of those drives in the lane.
 

bakahump

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Yeah.... Jaylen seems like he is a bit of a space cadet.
Probably kept the mask on "too long" (longer then needed) during the season as he was playing well.
Takes the mask off last night because he was playing like trash.
Both result in improvements/stellar play.

Add in his tendency to be a "low rent" Kyrie (as far as takes go...).

So he is a bit odd and has to be in the right mindset. I was critical in feb/early march when i mentioned "He somtimes believes his hype" and "he thinks he is an Alpha....when he is really a REALLY good Beta." I think thats still true. Can he have halves (and even full games) of exceptional play? Definitely. But as someone mentioned about Marcus and 3s (Playoff thread?).... he can also have 2-5 boneheaded possessions in a row that can may you (Me) think WTF! even when his Final numbers are 11/23 26pts. Its during those times that I might think someone more self aware would be like "umm ok...I am gonna keep the ball moving and let Jayson or Malcolm take this shot". After a possession or 2 to "re-center" he then has a dazzling drive to the hoop and a Beautiful 3pter in the next 3-4 possessions.

All that said he is a really good player and we are not nearly as a good a team without him. Hoping we continue to get the Good Jaylen and not the Bad Brown.
 

Deathofthebambino

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JB also has a tendency to look like his mind is grinding on the court, and when he let's loose it's often his handle that gets him in trouble. To be most effective he probably has to find a narrow bit of head space and try to stay there. He's so much better playing off two feet now than he used to be, which I think helps his controlled aggression. Reminded me of Jimmy Butler on a few of those drives in the lane.
Anyone who follows the game threads has seen me post countless times "Full speed Jaylen is the best Jaylen."

I've said for years that he's almost too cerebral. When he starts thinking with the ball in his hands, bad things happen. He's the definition of an instinctual scorer. When he makes up his mind that he's going to the hoop, particularly in the open court, I'm not sure there are even 2-3 guys in the league better than he is. When he catches the ball on the move towards the rim, same thing.

When he's asked to lead the offense and start the play, and become a decision maker, that's when things break down for him. You can almost see the wheels turning as he starts to think about whether he should drive, pass, shoot, slow down, speed up, etc. And that's when I believe he loses focus on things like dribbling, or recognizing help defense coming towards him, leading to turnovers.

But if you give him the ball and tell him to go fucking score, and the opponent doesn't double or provide help, he's usually going to score.
 

Auger34

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Anyone who follows the game threads has seen me post countless times "Full speed Jaylen is the best Jaylen."

I've said for years that he's almost too cerebral. When he starts thinking with the ball in his hands, bad things happen. He's the definition of an instinctual scorer. When he makes up his mind that he's going to the hoop, particularly in the open court, I'm not sure there are even 2-3 guys in the league better than he is. When he catches the ball on the move towards the rim, same thing.

When he's asked to lead the offense and start the play, and become a decision maker, that's when things break down for him. You can almost see the wheels turning as he starts to think about whether he should drive, pass, shoot, slow down, speed up, etc. And that's when I believe he loses focus on things like dribbling, or recognizing help defense coming towards him, leading to turnovers.

But if you give him the ball and tell him to go fucking score, and the opponent doesn't double or provide help, he's usually going to score.
Very true.

I’m going to drill down a bit more and say that Jaylen, for the level of player he is, is really bad when doing things he doesn’t have experience doing. To your point, I think that’s because he has to think more as opposed to going off of instinct.

Separate from your post, I think what caused Brown to play better yesterday was taking the wrap off of his hand and not the mask
 

Jimbodandy

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Very true.

I’m going to drill down a bit more and say that Jaylen, for the level of player he is, is really bad when doing things he doesn’t have experience doing. To your point, I think that’s because he has to think more as opposed to going off of instinct.

Separate from your post, I think what caused Brown to play better yesterday was taking the wrap off of his hand and not the mask
FWIW, I think that he needs to continue to try new things in order to continue to develop (e.g., the two nice dishes to TL under the rim weren't something that he could do last year). That said, asking him to quarterback the offense is basically asking him to learn a completely new role on the team. It's one thing to dribble up court, fine. But initiating offense against a set playoff defense, even one as bad as Atlanta's, still isn't really a good use of his talents as they are today. Not for a quarter at a time anyway. Possession here and there maybe is a good test.

Overall the whole "doing rather than thinking too much" is definitely a good focus. When he plays free and easy, he's unbelievable. When he has too much processing to do, he can lock up. I think that he never had to read defenses growing up as much as some other guys because he could simply blow by everyone. It can be learned but not overnight.
 

benhogan

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FWIW, I think that he needs to continue to try new things in order to continue to develop (e.g., the two nice dishes to TL under the rim weren't something that he could do last year). That said, asking him to quarterback the offense is basically asking him to learn a completely new role on the team. It's one thing to dribble up court, fine. But initiating offense against a set playoff defense, even one as bad as Atlanta's, still isn't really a good use of his talents as they are today. Not for a quarter at a time anyway. Possession here and there maybe is a good test.

Overall the whole "doing rather than thinking too much" is definitely a good focus. When he plays free and easy, he's unbelievable. When he has too much processing to do, he can lock up. I think that he never had to read defenses growing up as much as some other guys because he could simply blow by everyone. It can be learned but not overnight.
Yea we have so many solid QBs in White, Smart, Brogdon & Tatum in the halfcourt, not sure why Brown at the top (especially against ballhawks) is a great use of his talents. Getting downhill from the wing, and attacking the lane/rim is the best version of JB. If he draws a double, he can hit TL or elevate for a paint fade away.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yea we have so many solid QBs in White, Smart, Brogdon & Tatum in the halfcourt, not sure why Brown at the top (especially against ballhawks) is a great use of his talents. Getting downhill from the wing, and attacking the lane/rim is the best version of JB. If he draws a double, he can hit TL or elevate for a paint fade away.
FWIW, I think that there's benefit for him playing on ball from time to time as he seems to continue to grow parts of his game, both physical and cerebral. It's unusual for a guy his age to add anything at this point, but he is. That said, it should be done in measured fashion, not deep-end-of-the-pool. We're not the Orlando Magic in game 48 here.
 

lovegtm

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FWIW, I think that there's benefit for him playing on ball from time to time as he seems to continue to grow parts of his game, both physical and cerebral. It's unusual for a guy his age to add anything at this point, but he is. That said, it should be done in measured fashion, not deep-end-of-the-pool. We're not the Orlando Magic in game 48 here.
People think of Beal and Booker as playmakers, but the Wizards and Suns force-fed both them of them on-ball, heavily, earlier in their careers. Initially, they were both seen as off-ball secondary scorers. E.g. in Booker's 2nd year, he put up 22/game with 3.4-3.1 assist-turnover, and in his 3rd year he was 25/game with 4.7-3.6. Beal got those on-ball reps on a Wizards team that was actually pretty good, and a lot of people hated it at the time, because it was seen as inefficient.

The Celtics are clearly trying to get something like that to happen over time with Jaylen, if only at the margin. He probably has more room to develop as a 26 year-old playmaker than most, just because he hasn't had nearly the reps he would have gotten playing on a worse team, or a team with fewer playmakers.
 

TripleOT

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People think of Beal and Booker as playmakers, but the Wizards and Suns force-fed both them of them on-ball, heavily, earlier in their careers. Initially, they were both seen as off-ball secondary scorers. E.g. in Booker's 2nd year, he put up 22/game with 3.4-3.1 assist-turnover, and in his 3rd year he was 25/game with 4.7-3.6. Beal got those on-ball reps on a Wizards team that was actually pretty good, and a lot of people hated it at the time, because it was seen as inefficient.

The Celtics are clearly trying to get something like that to happen over time with Jaylen, if only at the margin. He probably has more room to develop as a 26 year-old playmaker than most, just because he hasn't had nearly the reps he would have gotten playing on a worse team, or a team with fewer playmakers.
If JB was developed on a bad team, like most number three picks, his game would be much different, He has had to shoehorn his game into specific roles. I remember watching his AAU highlights where he had the ball in his hands a lot, and he was dropping dimes all over the place. Then he gets to Cal, and he’s strictly a finisher. Same to start his career in Boston, finisher and defender. If he stays in Boston, he’s never going to need to be a 6-7 assist guy, but getting to 5 assists a game is doable.
 

lovegtm

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If JB was developed on a bad team, like most number three picks, his game would be much different, He has had to shoehorn his game into specific roles. I remember watching his AAU highlights where he had the ball in his hands a lot, and he was dropping dimes all over the place. Then he gets to Cal, and he’s strictly a finisher. Same to start his career in Boston, finisher and defender. If he stays in Boston, he’s never going to need to be a 6-7 assist guy, but getting to 5 assists a game is doable.
Right, I guess my point is that he may be less of a "he is who he is" guy at 26, because of those very specific constraints.

In any event, the Celtics clearly believe that may be the case.
 

Jimbodandy

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Right, I guess my point is that he may be less of a "he is who he is" guy at 26, because of those very specific constraints.

In any event, the Celtics clearly believe that may be the case.
Agreed on all counts here.

As long as he continues to develop, the burden of proof is on those who are making the "he is who he is because age" arguments. Of course the developments are in smaller increments and will slow/stop someday, but there's more there.

I wouldn't mind if he spent some extra time this offseason on his 3pt stroke too.
 

Auger34

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Agreed on all counts here.

As long as he continues to develop, the burden of proof is on those who are making the "he is who he is because age" arguments. Of course the developments are in smaller increments and will slow/stop someday, but there's more there.

I wouldn't mind if he spent some extra time this offseason on his 3pt stroke too.
You both stated more eloquently what I’ve been arguing for with Jaylen.

Being drafted by a good team competing for the playoffs and being forced to earn minutes is mostly a good thing but there are some drawbacks. Being force fed key play making development is one of them, especially for someone who isn’t a natural playmaker.

I 100% think there will be more clear Jaylen development in the future. Let’s start with the incredibly low hanging fruit…..wearing gloves when gardening
 

Jimbodandy

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You both stated more eloquently what I’ve been arguing for with Jaylen.

Being drafted by a good team competing for the playoffs and being forced to earn minutes is mostly a good thing but there are some drawbacks. Being force fed key play making development is one of them, especially for someone who isn’t a natural playmaker.

I 100% think there will be more clear Jaylen development in the future. Let’s start with the incredibly low hanging fruit…..wearing gloves when gardening
Beautifully put.
 

Saints Rest

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I struggle to make sense of what happened in this game.

For much of the first half, Brown was the same awful, hesitant self he was in game 3. I stand by it was some of his worst play as a Celtic. Worse even than the meager numbers would suggest.

Then late in the second half he takes the mask off and explodes, scoring 31 points for the game, 4 rebounds, 3 assists. Two of the assists were consecutive drives and dishes to Rob at the hoop - plays that were turnovers for him (if he even attempted them) in game 3.

Ordinarily, I could 100% believe that the mask was disruptive and removing it made the difference. What makes it weird in this situation is that he's been wearing the mask for 2 months wihtout looking hindered by it.

Anyway, his breakout game here was the most encouraging part of last night's game for ther Celtics.
I read a quote from him post-game where he basically said "I needed to change things up. To do something different. So I took off the mask."

He basically changed up his own mojo. I'm sure we've all done it, even as fans: "I'm changing where I sit on the couch" or "I'm switching from my 2004 shirt to my 2018 shirt."
 

Jimbodandy

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I read a quote from him post-game where he basically said "I needed to change things up. To do something different. So I took off the mask."

He basically changed up his own mojo. I'm sure we've all done it, even as fans: "I'm changing where I sit on the couch" or "I'm switching from my 2004 shirt to my 2018 shirt."
“If you believe you’re playing well because you’re getting laid or because you’re not getting laid or because you wear women’s underwear, then you are. And you should know that!”
 

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I found the quote, it was in a Karalis article in BSJ:
“Maybe it was all in my head. I just needed a different look,” Brown said of his decision to ditch the mask he’d worn for exactly two months, beginning on February 23. “I just needed something different. I don't know what it was. Needed to change my shoes, wipe my hands off, take the mask off, whatever I needed to do. I just needed to help my team get a win.”
 

Deathofthebambino

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I read a quote from him post-game where he basically said "I needed to change things up. To do something different. So I took off the mask."

He basically changed up his own mojo. I'm sure we've all done it, even as fans: "I'm changing where I sit on the couch" or "I'm switching from my 2004 shirt to my 2018 shirt."
Yeah, this makes me like the guy even more.

If people could get inside my head on the golf course, and see what I do (changing ball marks, lighting a smoke at different times on a hole, pre tee shot/after, switching from vodka to something, and on and on) to turn the tide of my fucked up game, they'd have me committed.
 

Saints Rest

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Yeah, this makes me like the guy even more.

If people could get inside my head on the golf course, and see what I do (changing ball marks, lighting a smoke at different times on a hole, pre tee shot/after, switching from vodka to something, and on and on) to turn the tide of my fucked up game, they'd have me committed.
I almost wrote a similar bit about my own mojo-shifting attempts on a golf course as well.