Jaylen Brown: More than enough in Year 8.

jezza1918

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I think I read somewhere that celts are +162 in minutes with Tatum on court, +9 with him off. Wondering how those numbers look with Jaylen but cant seem to find them?

edit: +96 with Jaylen on, cant locate the totals with him off.
 
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jezza1918

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Casual fan here, who only saw the 2nd half last night.

Brown is the reason they won.
yeah i mean i think he gets the biggest slice of the win pie in the 2nd half, and probably the entire game. but without tatum's huge slice in the first half (he had 20 on solid shooting and no one else had more than 8), the team probably isn't in position to have Brown close it the way he did. i think ive come to conclusion that Brown is more of the team leader/alpha/etc, while Tatum is their best player. Meanwhile I like White and Holiday taking shots in the clutch more than either Jay (or running through KP when he's healthy). TLDR: this team is f'ing loaded and I love them.
 

lovegtm

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CJM improved too.

But I feel as if folks outside of, well, here are missing how much Brown improved from last year. He was third team all-NBA last year and defense, ball handling, decision making, finishing all look visibly better this year. He’s a problem at both ends for any opposing team.

Obviously he hasn’t had any horrible shooting or turnover stretches like he did against Miami last year. He just seems way beyond that crap now.
Moving this discussion over to here: I think JB still has room to grow. He could become a 5 assist/game playmaking wing. All reports are that that's the thing he's working on relentlessly now, and betting against JB leveling up a skill he focuses on has historically been a losing bet.
 

Jimbodandy

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Moving this discussion over to here: I think JB still has room to grow. He could become a 5 assist/game playmaking wing. All reports are that that's the thing he's working on relentlessly now, and betting against JB leveling up a skill he focuses on has historically been a losing bet.
That and his defense were declared as things that he wanted to improve on. As you note, when he targets something, his focused hard work has generally produced results.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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We are not far removed from JB driving into the teeth of the D, stopping, semi-panicking, then finding someone open in the corner with a very basic pass and all of us saying “holy shit JB level up!”

He does everything with so much more awareness and intentionality now. He’ll never match Tatum for playmaking but gone are the days of anxiety watching him blindly plow into a crowd with no plan.

A lot of people (idiots) who crowed about this instantly being the worst contract in basketball look pretty damn stupid.
 

rodderick

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We are not far removed from JB driving into the teeth of the D, stopping, semi-panicking, then finding someone open in the corner with a very basic pass and all of us saying “holy shit JB level up!”

He does everything with so much more awareness and intentionality now. He’ll never match Tatum for playmaking but gone are the days of anxiety watching him blindly plow into a crowd with no plan.

A lot of people (idiots) who crowed about this instantly being the worst contract in basketball look pretty damn stupid.
It's insane just how much and how quickly he improved on what his biggest flaws were coming off the past season. His handles are miles better, as are his passing and court awareness. He always seems to attack with a plan now, and when he gets in a groove and the team starts feeding him the ball he appears to have endless tools to generate offense by himself. Yesterday he had about a five minute sequence in which he hit a corner three, threw down a nasty dunk, got a layup on a drive and then drained a sweet jumper from the top of the key. He's been an incredibly mature player.
 

lovegtm

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It's insane just how much and how quickly he improved on what his biggest flaws were coming off the past season. His handles are miles better, as are his passing and court awareness. He always seems to attack with a plan now, and when he gets in a groove and the team starts feeding him the ball he appears to have endless tools to generate offense by himself. Yesterday he had about a five minute sequence in which he hit a corner three, threw down a nasty dunk, got a layup on a drive and then drained a sweet jumper from the top of the key. He's been an incredibly mature player.
Jaylen is a weird player in that he combines extreme athleticism, skill, and high actual IQ with low feel and "BBIQ".

I think the mistake people made in evaluating him is overestimating the complexity of basketball. For someone with all his other attributes, you can absolutely break NBA basketball down into a learnable process, and he's been methodically doing that for years.

It's a big reason I'm high on him to find more improvement in the next couple years. He's coming at this from a completely different angle from most guys.
 

ManicCompression

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Jaylen is a weird player in that he combines extreme athleticism, skill, and high actual IQ with low feel and "BBIQ".

I think the mistake people made in evaluating him is overestimating the complexity of basketball. For someone with all his other attributes, you can absolutely break NBA basketball down into a learnable process, and he's been methodically doing that for years.

It's a big reason I'm high on him to find more improvement in the next couple years. He's coming at this from a completely different angle from most guys.
I think, and this is a credit to him, he now just does less of the stuff he doesn't do well and he does more of the stuff he does do well. I don't think he's gotten significantly better at dribbling or passing or creating, he's just not trying to overextend himself as much in those areas. Some of it is likely due to the better surrounding talent, most of it might be him leaning into his strengths, but it's clearly paying off in a big way. Love the way he's playing right now - he's totally within himself, within the flow of the offense, which couldn't always be said in previous years.
 

tbrown_01923

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He has been a -low intuition- player whos best cames were when he removes decision making. But he had technical limitations too, we have discussed his handle for years. His improvement has been tremendous and nothing we really could have anticipated (I certainly didn't). In addition, he was built for defending the point of attack and Luka (and to a lesser degree, Kyrie) are really the ideal matchups for him in that regard. Their usage is high and they do very little off the ball. Even though there are favorable matchups, he is delivering.

Will year 9 be better? He said there are still tricks he hasn't unveiled because of the talents of the team!
 

lovegtm

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I think, and this is a credit to him, he now just does less of the stuff he doesn't do well and he does more of the stuff he does do well. I don't think he's gotten significantly better at dribbling or passing or creating, he's just not trying to overextend himself as much in those areas. Some of it is likely due to the better surrounding talent, most of it might be him leaning into his strengths, but it's clearly paying off in a big way. Love the way he's playing right now - he's totally within himself, within the flow of the offense, which couldn't always be said in previous years.
He has gotten way better at all those things.
 

tims4wins

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I think, and this is a credit to him, he now just does less of the stuff he doesn't do well and he does more of the stuff he does do well. I don't think he's gotten significantly better at dribbling or passing or creating, he's just not trying to overextend himself as much in those areas. Some of it is likely due to the better surrounding talent, most of it might be him leaning into his strengths, but it's clearly paying off in a big way. Love the way he's playing right now - he's totally within himself, within the flow of the offense, which couldn't always be said in previous years.
I think this is right. He is playing to his strengths as much as can be reasonably expected.
 

ManicCompression

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He has gotten way better at all those things.
I guess I'm not seeing it. I see a guy who's not trying to be ISOing like Luka anymore and dribble into 3-4 guys. That's completely removed from his game except for specific situations. Instead it's 2-3 dribbles and smart, simple decisions.
 

Auger34

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He has gotten way better at all those things.
Yeah, I am really surprised that anyone would say that he hasn’t improved his decision making and creation skills markedly.

IMO, it’s clear as day. There’s much more of a plan when he attacks the defense.

I mean, yesterday was a master class. His manipulation of the defense and kicking it out to shooters was Tatum-esque
 

ManicCompression

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Yeah, I am really surprised that anyone would say that he hasn’t improved his decision making and creation skills markedly.

IMO, it’s clear as day. There’s much more of a plan when he attacks the defense.

I mean, yesterday was a master class. His manipulation of the defense and kicking it out to shooters was Tatum-esque
I think the biggest decision he makes every possession is "Don't do too much" and that's the best one he can make. He's absolutely killing defenses when they're in rotation, as a scorer and a passer, rather than trying to ISO his way to points and assists. I'm being very complimentary of him when I say that.
 

tbrown_01923

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While he is playing to his strengths more, he has undoubtedly improved every aspect of his game, maybe minus his hep defense. But that even seems better too. You need to dig up some of his left hand handle vids from 3+ yrs ago. Sure, he plays more to his righ hand now, but his left is so much stronger.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Probably one of the hardest things for young players and especially mega-athletes like Jaylen and especially coming in as a fairly raw 1 and done is the power of changing speeds. It's a rude awakening when you can't just out-athlete everyone.

It's maybe less of a noticeable improvement than the handling or passing because it is so subtle but he has learned to change speeds so well and it has elevated so much of his game. The explosion counts for more by contrast, and he has found so much daylight in the paint on his drives by the simple act of slowing down, forcing defenders to commit to an action, which then allows him to use his strength and athleticism to do whatever he wants with that daylight. And that extra bit of time and space is allowing him to see the floor much better too if enough help D comes that he does need to make a pass.
 

lovegtm

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I think the biggest decision he makes every possession is "Don't do too much" and that's the best one he can make. He's absolutely killing defenses when they're in rotation, as a scorer and a passer, rather than trying to ISO his way to points and assists. I'm being very complimentary of him when I say that.
He's initiating far better. It goes way, way beyond "don't do too much." They are relying on him to break down the defense now.
 

m0ckduck

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Jaylen is a weird player in that he combines extreme athleticism, skill, and high actual IQ with low feel and "BBIQ".

I think the mistake people made in evaluating him is overestimating the complexity of basketball. For someone with all his other attributes, you can absolutely break NBA basketball down into a learnable process, and he's been methodically doing that for years.

It's a big reason I'm high on him to find more improvement in the next couple years. He's coming at this from a completely different angle from most guys.
This is a great post.

As a contrast of styles, they are a fascinating tandem for the reasons you indicate. Tatum has always been "the natural", which is not to say that he doesn't work incredibly hard at his game, but there's a fluidity with him where it feels like he's always been extremely comfortable playing the game of basketball. Brown is more like a super-villain figuring out how to use a doomsday device: there's the physical weapon (his athleticism), and then a highly intelligent mind trying to figure how to use it. The combination doesn't always feel fluid and connected in the same way as with Tatum, but there's an incredible raw potential because of (as you say: ) the learnability of basketball.
 

JakeRae

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Yeah, I am really surprised that anyone would say that he hasn’t improved his decision making and creation skills markedly.

IMO, it’s clear as day. There’s much more of a plan when he attacks the defense.

I mean, yesterday was a master class. His manipulation of the defense and kicking it out to shooters was Tatum-esque
To add to this, I think the game has really started to slow down for him this year, particularly in the playoffs. Earlier this year, I saw a modest improvement in his offense driven primarily be being more decisive, but it was very mechanical. If seemed like there were more drives that he went into looking to pass, but he wasn’t processing in real time and making judgments based on coverage, he was making an early decision to pass on some drives and then executing that. That was an improvement because it made him less predictable, but it wasn’t game changing.

He now looks like he is reading and reacting in the moment in a way he never really has before. If that’s real, he could be taking a big step forward. I know I got a lot of pushback for my view that he was closer to a top 40 player than top 20 going into this season. I’m guessing the debate this offseason is more like top 10 v. top 20. I’m probably going to be on the bearish side of that spectrum again, but I can see a path to him as a top 10 player now, which I didn’t see before.
 

jmcc5400

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To add to this, I think the game has really started to slow down for him this year, particularly in the playoffs. Earlier this year, I saw a modest improvement in his offense driven primarily be being more decisive, but it was very mechanical. If seemed like there were more drives that he went into looking to pass, but he wasn’t processing in real time and making judgments based on coverage, he was making an early decision to pass on some drives and then executing that. That was an improvement because it made him less predictable, but it wasn’t game changing.

He now looks like he is reading and reacting in the moment in a way he never really has before. If that’s real, he could be taking a big step forward. I know I got a lot of pushback for my view that he was closer to a top 40 player than top 20 going into this season. I’m guessing the debate this offseason is more like top 10 v. top 20. I’m probably going to be on the bearish side of that spectrum again, but I can see a path to him as a top 10 player now, which I didn’t see before.
I think that it would be natural for Jaylen to have a brotherly "rivalry" with Tatum and want to level up his processing to try to keep pace with Tatum's eliteness in that area. It's a great development.
 

Jimbodandy

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To add to this, I think the game has really started to slow down for him this year, particularly in the playoffs. Earlier this year, I saw a modest improvement in his offense driven primarily be being more decisive, but it was very mechanical. If seemed like there were more drives that he went into looking to pass, but he wasn’t processing in real time and making judgments based on coverage, he was making an early decision to pass on some drives and then executing that. That was an improvement because it made him less predictable, but it wasn’t game changing.

He now looks like he is reading and reacting in the moment in a way he never really has before. If that’s real, he could be taking a big step forward. I know I got a lot of pushback for my view that he was closer to a top 40 player than top 20 going into this season. I’m guessing the debate this offseason is more like top 10 v. top 20. I’m probably going to be on the bearish side of that spectrum again, but I can see a path to him as a top 10 player now, which I didn’t see before.
I agree with all of this, as one of the resident Jaylen stans. He didn't end last year well or start this year well either. But he turned things around. And the game slowing down for him was a huge part of it. Joe and staff probably deserve a ton of credit for this, but the kid is a workaholic and put the time in. I think that he has been pushing the top20 for a while and has a path for continued improvement, since some of the grown opportunities for him are things that are mental or fine skills tweaks.
 

astrozombie

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Honestly, I am happy for JB. He generated a lot of takes between his contract and play last year, particular the drives into the teeth of the defense and losing the dribble. But he worked on those things and he has been unstoppable in the playoffs. Now when he dribbles into a crowd I have confidence he'll either make it to the hoop or make the right play to kick it out; something I am not sure I would have thought last year. He's been aggressive, but not to the detriment of team ball and plays great defense.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Seriously. Was posted in another thread but they scored or assisted on 36/38 made buckets for celts.
As pointed out in the other thread, this actually isn't true - someone just took JB's + JT's buckets + assists but neglected to factor in their passes to each other.

But it's a high number. IIRC, it was all but 9.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's insane just how much and how quickly he improved on what his biggest flaws were coming off the past season. His handles are miles better, as are his passing and court awareness. He always seems to attack with a plan now, and when he gets in a groove and the team starts feeding him the ball he appears to have endless tools to generate offense by himself. Yesterday he had about a five minute sequence in which he hit a corner three, threw down a nasty dunk, got a layup on a drive and then drained a sweet jumper from the top of the key. He's been an incredibly mature player.
JB is great and I love seeing him get more and more assists but one big reason why his handles and vision look better is that the court is way more open than it was in the past.

He's also playing with way better players when JT is off the floor.
 

Montana Fan

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He’s not driving into 3-4 defenders any longer because those 3-4 defenders are guarding their men. He’s better at hitting open shooters because he has confidence in the shooters and has been looking for them all season long. He has improved on his passing and as Derrick White noted the other day when asked about JB’s play, DW specifically called out JB making ALL the right reads. Meaning, to me anyway, that he wasn’t always making the right reads earlier in the season and as LoveGTM noted, he has improved as the season has gone on.

JB has always been about continuous improvement. Having a coach like Stevens and now a program that is built on a model of continued improvement was a godsend for him. Made him a rich man and a great player that may not have achieved so highly had LA picked him at #2.
 

Justthetippett

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I think Jaylen has a chance for a Jimmy Butler like late 20s early 30s. His mental growth has been incredible, and his skills get incrementally better. His playing strength will conto ue to improve and he can start to take over games mentally the way Jimmy has. Amazing to think how far we have come from the Durant rumors to being on the cusp of the crown with him as a top piece. As others have said, I'm very happy for him, and the Cs. However "easy" this playoff push has been, it's been an eight year step by step journey to get here and thrive out in the work.
 

lexrageorge

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I think Jaylen has a chance for a Jimmy Butler like late 20s early 30s. His mental growth has been incredible, and his skills get incrementally better. His playing strength will conto ue to improve and he can start to take over games mentally the way Jimmy has. Amazing to think how far we have come from the Durant rumors to being on the cusp of the crown with him as a top piece. As others have said, I'm very happy for him, and the Cs. However "easy" this playoff push has been, it's been an eight year step by step journey to get here and thrive out in the work.
It's funny you mention Jimmy Butler. Because when Brown drew the 6th foul on Luka, it reminded me of Butler's knack for getting calls. Of course, had it been the real Jimmy Butler drawing that foul, the commentators would have fawned over Butler for his "savvy veteran play forcing Luka to foul out" instead of screaming about the injustice of it all.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I'm going to go ahead and say that he was the right draft pick and he's worth that contract.
 

Auger34

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Bump. Finals MVP.

Perfect postgame speech.

He deserved it 100%.

but he’s not close to a top 20 player and Sabonis is better right?
 

kfoss99

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Finals MVP Jaylen Brown says "yes, year 8 will be enough!"

He's now qualitatively better than Reggie, Barkley, Stockton & Malone. Chris Paul, Embid, and Luka, too. He's a World Champion!
 

Auger34

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That’s so incredibly awesome for him, after how last year ended.

I think he’s stamped as a top 15 player.
bingo.

Tatum’s the best player on the team but this really felt like it meaned more for Brown to win it.,

I mean, there were multiple posters on this board who said he was barely a top 40 player the beginning of THIS YEAR (as well as other posters who thought and posted like that but wouldn’t say it)

It’s just awesome that he got these well deserved accolades.

He’s a top 15 player for sure…but is he better than Sabonis?